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darker side of classical music

War

Re: darker side of classical music
September 27, 2009, 01:23:50 AM
Heaviest shit I've heard:

1. Franz Schubert, Symphony No. 8
2. Anton Bruckner, Symphonies No. 3 and 8
3. Ottorino Respighi, Simfonia Dramatica and Symphonic Poems
4. Camille Saint-Saens, Symphony No 3
5. Robert Schumann, Symphony No 3
6. Ludwig van Beethoven, Symphony No 3
7. Richard Strauss, Also Sprach Zarathustra
8. W.A. Mozart, Requiem

Do you need more?

Can't forget Brahms; Symphony No. 4 [they're all good, though], and Ein deutsches Requiem.

Re: darker side of classical music
October 01, 2009, 03:52:27 AM
4. Camille Saint-Saens, Symphony No 3

One of my favorites!
No.

Having reviewed the thread, baby Jesus is most definitely weeping at this point.

Re: darker side of classical music
October 01, 2009, 04:02:48 AM
I think one of the problems here is that we're applying a popular music template to classical. You don't have dark classical. Classical is designed to tell a story, with its ups and downs, in total. So happy pieces have dark moods and so forth. Asking for dark classical is like asking for dark directions to the bank.

Re: darker side of classical music
October 06, 2009, 01:22:17 AM
I think one of the problems here is that we're applying a popular music template to classical. You don't have dark classical. Classical is designed to tell a story, with its ups and downs, in total. So happy pieces have dark moods and so forth. Asking for dark classical is like asking for dark directions to the bank.

I think he meant composers similar to Bela Bartok, which would definitely come across as somewhat "dark", I guess. The simile at the end was definitely awesome though.
Write it on a black piece of construction paper of course!
~proud member of the AsPie NuRd UndErGroUnd SoCieTy~ post this in your sig if you are too!

Re: darker side of classical music
October 15, 2010, 05:21:42 AM
The Wolf's Glen scene from "Der Freischutz" by Carl Maria von Weber (Carlos Kleiber/Dresden Staatskapelle).  Great music for a ritual sacrifice.
"I tell you: one must have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star..."    -Nietzsche

Re: darker side of classical music
October 15, 2010, 09:22:19 AM
Wow, no one included Mussorgsky - St John's Night at Bare Mountain! That should go with out saying,

and:

Ottorino Respighi - Pina di Roma (SPECIFICALLY "Pines Near a Catacomb")
Johannes Brahms - Symphony #1

Re: darker side of classical music
April 07, 2011, 09:23:33 AM
ive try seaching for more darker Classical music, the only stuff ive come across is the like of movies soundtracks. any ideas on composers that like to indulge in the sinister side?

I don't think this is a smart way to approach classical music. The point of classical is not to make wallpaper for a specific mood, but to wrap moods into a narrative so you can experience them all in context. It's all about context with classical; rock is about The Moment or The Riff, but has no subtlety.

So... pick any great piece, and there will be dark moments, and lighter ones, and a million shades between.

Specifically "dark" classical music will all be 20th century trash.

This point, that of "death metal black metal", and those of others reflect the same view. Classical music, especially that of antiquity, represents the dramatic tides of life itself as a journey, there is darkness and light as you walk on in your consciousness, A piece of classical music is a journey through which one finds the complex, indescribable moods and feelings of life. Many works, such as the work of Chopin, can be happy and sad - light and dark - at the same time.

Mainstream society, at least that of mainstream media has evolved into a niche of advertising and appealing to the largest possible audience. In the process, all that deemed too radical, too far from one's Ipod, lattes and top40s is removed and we are given exactly what we want in a "push button - receive feed" sort of way. To ask for "dark" classical is a lot like skipping to "the best part" of some pop song. It's instant gratification. And unfortunately, no one says no to that anymore. Ultimately, it is unfulfilling, and puts you on a one way course to a mid-life crisis, etc.

Perhaps your intentions are different, there are indeed classical composers whom's subject matter is of a darker nature. But with any classical artist worth listening to, you'll find that they are much more than a pretty face. There's a lifetime of depth within. The same is true with metal, in fact - good metal, anyhow. To assert that point is one of the ambitions of ANUS I may boldly speak of with my laughably low post count.

The point is, there's plenty of darkness in classical music and you may not even know that you've heard it in some of your favourite pieces. If I am to oblige you as Conservationalist humoursly did a few posts later, then I would reccomend investigating composers associated with mental illness. A google search of "classical composers with schizophrenia" will turn up some good results of artists who battled the affliction and composed dissonant and chaotic music; an illustration of this struggle, perhaps.
Moreover, keep listening to classical, metal and other of this music in reference to what I described above, and with time you may discover a whole new world full of the uncertain, dramatic beauty that is life.

Re: darker side of classical music
April 07, 2011, 09:47:14 AM
Exceptional reply.
I'd like to add to this sentence...
"The point is, there's plenty of darkness in classical music and you may not even know that you've heard it in some of your favourite pieces."
...that there is in classical such an abundance of melodies, which again can be placed in various categories, that listeners will to a certain degree and based on their own life experiences, find something in certain melodies that others don't, altough it is there to be found.
For example, the second movement of Brahms's second symphony is at the same time sad, and gentle, and intimate, and playful, while still beautiful. On which aspect will you concentrate when you listen to it?
Whatever you honor above all things, that which you so honor will have dominion over you.

Re: darker side of classical music
April 07, 2011, 12:55:07 PM
Exceptional reply.
I'd like to add to this sentence...
"The point is, there's plenty of darkness in classical music and you may not even know that you've heard it in some of your favourite pieces."
...that there is in classical such an abundance of melodies, which again can be placed in various categories, that listeners will to a certain degree and based on their own life experiences, find something in certain melodies that others don't, altough it is there to be found.
For example, the second movement of Brahms's second symphony is at the same time sad, and gentle, and intimate, and playful, while still beautiful. On which aspect will you concentrate when you listen to it?

Pieces like this are those that give you hope and then take it away; they are tragic and bittersweet. I suppose everyone experiences emotion differently. Often times, when I come upon something sad, I also feel that life is beautiful at the same time. It's emotional state that I have a hard time describing, and I don't suppose that there's much worth in describing a feeling so magnificent. Classical music - pieces like this - help me to experience this feeling, which I believe reflects the way true reality subsists.
In a word: "The same things that make us laugh also make us cry."

N

Re: darker side of classical music
April 07, 2011, 11:45:07 PM
Exceptional reply.
I'd like to add to this sentence...
"The point is, there's plenty of darkness in classical music and you may not even know that you've heard it in some of your favourite pieces."
...that there is in classical such an abundance of melodies, which again can be placed in various categories, that listeners will to a certain degree and based on their own life experiences, find something in certain melodies that others don't, altough it is there to be found.
For example, the second movement of Brahms's second symphony is at the same time sad, and gentle, and intimate, and playful, while still beautiful. On which aspect will you concentrate when you listen to it?

Pieces like this are those that give you hope and then take it away; they are tragic and bittersweet. I suppose everyone experiences emotion differently. Often times, when I come upon something sad, I also feel that life is beautiful at the same time. It's emotional state that I have a hard time describing, and I don't suppose that there's much worth in describing a feeling so magnificent. Classical music - pieces like this - help me to experience this feeling, which I believe reflects the way true reality subsists.
In a word: "The same things that make us laugh also make us cry."



Like the 2nd movement of Beethoven's 7th?


It's somber, but not sad...it accepts angst but it forceful, passionate and warlike in transforming it.  It makes sense: Beethoven wants to invigorate the passions of the spirit with the Symphony, not yoke tears from the eyes.

My take on it, as it relates to that Symphony, at least.

Re: darker side of classical music
April 08, 2011, 01:23:15 AM
Modern music is based in the individual, thus is a choice experience. Do you want a happy tale? Or a sad one? Or an angry one, to make you feel like Phil Anselmo in righteous rage?

Classical music is the opposite direction, like classical civilization. The individual fits into a pattern, and the pattern defines the individual and their experience.

In the modern sense, if you're a goatherd, just get edumacated and then you can be a CEO!

In the ancient sense, if you're a goatherd, serve your role and if it ends with slaughter at the hands of an enemy, c'est la vie and that's a done deal.

Of course, the modern sense is neurotic, and self-destructive. An edumacated goatherd is a terrible CEO and will compensate with theft, ending his career in scandal or in just being a twisted person. It might be better to be an honest person and die poor at age 28 than be a twisted self-hater who dies in opulence at 68.

Quality of experience.

As a result, it's very hard to say which classical is "darker" since all of it is dark. It all involves a theme that is heavier than anything you'll find on the radio.

Looking for the darker stuff just gets you the flat postmodern pieces that imitate pop music and as a result, don't give you the experience of classical music. If you're looking for darker classical music, just listen to metal.

Re: darker side of classical music
April 24, 2011, 02:36:43 PM
For a long time I've tried to break into classical without much success. I think my problem is that I too have been looking for a level or a type of darkness which I presumed was there but which I have simply not been able to find. As others have suggested here, I think that if you are looking for the kind of darkness you find in metal music then you're goingt o be disappointed. In future I'll be approaching classical with a more open mind.

In modern classical and minimal, however, you can find a sustained and brooding darkness and melancholy akin to what you find in metal. I would suggest you start with Arvo Part' Tabula Rasa and maybe Henryck Gorecki's Symphony No.3 and String Quartet No.1. You're likely to recognise some sections from films. My suggestion is to take on board the critism of modern classical you read here but don't let it deter you from finding out for yourself. After all, it doesn't cost you anything to download it and decide for yourself. I should say, I haven't yet found the kind of heroic darkness you find in metal, except maybe in The Planets by Holst, which have been mentioned above, but then again I haven't been looking very long.
"creation in order to subdue the torment of perception" - Wilhelm Worringer
A View From Nihil
Order of the HNW

Re: darker side of classical music
April 25, 2011, 05:12:56 AM
For a long time I've tried to break into classical without much success. I think my problem is that I too have been looking for a level or a type of darkness which I presumed was there but which I have simply not been able to find. As others have suggested here, I think that if you are looking for the kind of darkness you find in metal music then you're goingt o be disappointed. In future I'll be approaching classical with a more open mind.

Also, the classical world never knew or needed to remedy such troubled times, it wasn't dissident music in the sense that metal is. Classical is a celebration of life that includes both darkness and happiness, sometimes simultaneously, but modern classical doesn't do that as well as Kraftwerk.

E

Re: darker side of classical music
August 02, 2011, 08:19:37 AM
Looking for the darker stuff just gets you the flat postmodern pieces that imitate pop music and as a result, don't give you the experience of classical music.

Yes, it's mostly 'conductor's music'-  mere excercises in tension and suspense, full of false melancholy. I wouldn't advise to listen to anything 'classical' after modernist Bartók and Stravinsky altogether.

Recommendations: anything by Sibelius, Bartók's Bluebeard's Castle.