Society is hardest on young women

[Conservationist]

Approximately 85% of my patients are women with annual incomes of over $50,000, between the ages of 18 and 44. A lot of young women are stigmatized by their past.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2009/07/dr-tattoff-dr-will-kirby.html

I've noticed this too. Our society refuses to have a central values system of any kind, so kids are thrust out to try to figure it out as best they can. Most, raised on a steady diet of movies and other karma-dramatic stuff, immediately make a series of dumb mistakes. Their parents are oblivious or simply disinterested. Only later do they come to their senses and realize they've gone down a bad road no one could be bothered to warn them about.

[Dunkeldood]

I continually get the feeling that the current generation has lost some kind of vital element and is just coasting on the effort and memes of their parents' generation. It's as if people haven't realized that emotional detachment is also a factor in our booming population, that the reason why people have been able to have so many kids is because they can in some ways neglect them while they raise themselves with television, movies and the internet (books? yeah right those don't have a hip soundtrack). However, the obvious outcome is that they become philosophically and spiritually bankrupt, only capable of regurgitating and relating to lowest common denominator narratives. Women have it the worst as these simple narratives strip them of their human qualities, pigeonholing them into archetypal roles; sex object, homemaker, feminist, while lacking any sense of the purpose of these roles. It's like they want to express these feminine attributes, but have been cultivated by the media to do so instead of being able to discover who they are as a woman themselves, resulting in confusion, frustration and unfortunate life choices.

[My AIDS, Your Arse]

I had written something, but Dunkeldood hit the nail on the head.

I hear lack of a father figure can have quite the drastic effect on a child's development, especially a girl's.


And on the topic of tattoos, I highly doubt there's anything worth getting inked into your skin that couldn't be printed on a t-shirt or coffee mug and have the same importance. There's nothing "cool" or "awesome" enough that some kid could have put into their skin. What would drive someone to do that, despite how clearly stupid and regrettable it would be to any reasonable person?

Tattoos are only had for their novelty, or because someone had something 'big' happen in their little life that they need to remember it by having some metal shot into their dermis. People get tattoos because it gets them attention or makes them feel important. Not because there's any actual cultural significance. They see the outer form, but no function for tattoos whatsoever.

Tattoos belong to bikers, sailors, circus freaks, prisoners, holocaust victims, and people who live in tribes, not scrawny hipsters and soccer moms who lead otherwise boring lives.

If you want a nice piece of visual art tattooed onto your arm, good for you. But the original piece is still elsewhere, and presented in a much better way, so why even bother? Skin is an ugly place to display any kind of worthwhile art, that's why artists paint on canvases, and that is what photography was invented for.

Not all of the ink will come out either, that should teach someone the importance of thinking for the future. Scarred 4 lyfe yo.

http://www.ktla.com/community/photos/ktla-bad-tattoos-gallery,0,3161175.photogallery



from http://www.latfh.com

“Oh, you want proof I took Honors English in high school? Here, check out this unbelievably pretentious tattoo I got.”


If someone has a good reason to get a tattoo besides some effete individual's self-important reason, I'd really like to hear it.

[RedReign]

Wow, and I thought I was the only one who thought that about tattoo culture.

Let's not only conform to the herd, let's conform to the lowest common denominator of the herd, either in sincere imitation or in ironic mockery (but still conforming to the sweaty biker-pirates.)

Oh, did I mention I cannot fucking stand biker-pirates?

[Sepulchral Voice]

I see nothing wrong with getting something like the Morbid Visions cover tattooed. It's just like someone hanging a poster in their room; it reminds you of something that's very important to you. Let the hipsters ruin their lives with pizza and beer tattoos, we will celebrate death metal by marking it in our skin. We are a tribe. And yes, you can just wear a t-shirt, it works just as well.

[cet30048]

I know someone who is a perfect example of the pointless tattoo guy we all surely know sometime in our lives, I always got the response of "just cuz its cool LOL" or some other poignant comment about how it made him appear. His behavior all throughout the time that I knew him was that of a person who craves attention and always had to have the most expensive/technologically advanced things to make up for the lack of character and intellect he had.. the typical hipster we all love so much here. So the statements made are invariably true; he is an attention whore. I wholeheartedly agree with what was said.

[My AIDS, Your Arse]

Well, it's not so much the guys we're worried about.

But the girls won't figure out that that cool tattoo won't be cool anymore once they decide they're done playing with the little kids.

It's the girls who make that sort of rash decision and regret it later on - and rightfully so - although they didn't understand what they were getting themselves into, because all of the cool kids are doing it, and the cool kids expect to be cool and 18 years old and in high school/college forever, working at the local vegan coffeeshop to stop the corporations or that chic neo-bohemian clothing store with all of the cool fashions. Some get away with it up until they're 40 years old, but then what have their lives amounted to?

Approximately 85% of my patients are women with annual incomes of over $50,000, between the ages of 18 and 44.

A goal should be to prevent people from making regretful decisions by showing them that actions have causes.

A lot of the dumb tattoos we'll see are on men who decided to keep them.

So many decent young women end up making bad decisions, because they're told they can be completely independent of anything and everything, and they end up not understanding who or what they are, sort of like what Dunkeldood already posted. I'm not trying to be sexist or misogynist, but I'm noticing this more and more lately.

What can we do about it?

[Duane]

What can we do about it?

What ANUS has been saying for years. Promote quality. In this case, befriend or become romantically involved with quality women and encourage them. Teach them, learn from them, experience life with them and forget the rest.

[Dunkeldood]

What can we do about it?

I think one of the most powerful things is to encourage any children you know, nephews, nieces, friends' kids, maybe even your own kids, to read, play outside and work on science projects, or any creative/artistic projects instead of spoiling them with unmitigated television, popular movies and music. The women I've known throughout my life that had parents that restricted them to watching a minimal amount of television and movies as well as minimal or no vacuous pop music, and encouraged them to read, draw, actually learn things they were interested in outside of school (weird concept I know) and spend time observing and thinking about nature, grew up into incredibly respectable, capable, and intelligent women. On the other hand those I've seen that were raised on television, movies, pop music and now the internet too have become one dimensional, mediocre, mental broom pushers that can't handle any emotional or social problems without consulting their parents or looking to someone (the nearest person who is their IRL equivalent of yahoo answers) for help. Men too obviously but I think men have it a little bit easier, they're already raised on the narrative that they have to become a worker or a leader, someone capable of accomplishing things and taking care of others around them. Women on the other hand are convinced early on that they have to keep perfecting themselves to meet unrealistic aesthetic standards while at the same time accomplishing as much as possible to equalize themselves with men, something that usually leads to self defeat and an inability to achieve what they are actually capable of already, for themselves. I think raising awareness on the fact that this is a problem is also a good idea. For example, if you are not capable of being there for your kid(s) properly, don't have any in the first place. Try and get people to think about the kind of people they want to inherit this world or something, and that selfishly wanting your own little version of yourself to be around when you're gone to make sure your legacy is still consuming its fair share of resources (and then some) is not nearly a good enough reason.

[Ergriefer]

tattoos are silly, i would definitely lump them under "bad decisions."  i'm one of the only people i know who doesn't have any, so can definitely see where the herd mentality comes into play.  however, the biggest and worst decisions that a lot of girls i've known make is to use hard drugs.  and that has far worse implications for the rest of their lives.  personally, i would let my daughter get gay rikki rachtman sleeves before i let her try, say, crystal meth.  all the confidence building and attempts at "raising them right" should be aimed at influencing that decision first.

[Umbrage]

Women are generally just more insecure than men hence they will regret anything sooner than a man does. There's no social conspiracy against women apart from women making themselves and other women more insecure by reading their fashion magazines and watching their talkshows by the billions. I can easily see how their statistics in tattoo removal fit in there.

If there really is a social conspiracy against women then wouldn't it be better if women detected it and fought it? The idea of a man "educating" a woman on feminism is ridiculous. All I see in this thread is men who (with the best intentions) are essentially saying we should tell women what to do, how to view themselves and the world, and basically tell women to get some self-respect because as this thread implies women do not respect themselves, are stupid and need our manly guidance. Imarite? Be careful dudes, you're treading on thin ice here...

I'm actually surprised at the tattoo bashing going on here. Most of your metal idols probably have tattoos. And yeah of course there's lots of stupid ugly tattoos out there, my guess is they equal the amount of stupid ugly people who have those tattoos. But I'd sooner blame the popularity of tattoo removal on the shallowness of our consumer based society: i.e. the "today I'm a rockstar, tomorrow I'm an accountant" attitude. Oh and guess what kind of people make over $50,000 annually? Well they ain't sailors and bikers that's for sure. Tattoos used to belong to certain subcultures and (low) social classes and that's who it still belongs to, for other (middle and upper class) people it's just a fashion statement or a childish adventure so they usually grow to regret it (the fuckin' posers!)

Back to the OP's statement:

Our society refuses to have a central values system of any kind, so kids are thrust out to try to figure it out as best they can. Most, raised on a steady diet of movies and other karma-dramatic stuff, immediately make a series of dumb mistakes. Their parents are oblivious or simply disinterested. Only later do they come to their senses and realize they've gone down a bad road no one could be bothered to warn them about.

I understand your point but your example is very poor. How many parents do you know that don't mind it if their kids get tattoos? Outside of the lower classes (who's parents often have tattoos too, and where it can be considered a great compliment to have some names or faces of your family members tattooed on your chest) I don't know of any parent who will take lightly that their kid got a tattoo. Parents know that tattoos represent certain cultures and most middle class and upper class parents do not want their kids to become part of the lower class culture. I think it's more likely that middle and upper class people who get tattoos at an early age are rebelling against their parents instead of getting too much freedom like the OP suggested. If they really had such a bad upbringing then they would never see the error in their ways and they'd likely never grow up to make $50,000 a year either. Instead they'd live in trailer homes or be strippers still angry at their absent father or/and alcoholic mother.

I agree with the OP's notion that todays and yesterdays parents expect(ed) their kids to be raised by the failing school system and Mtv while the parents could focus on their careers and being tired in their free time (because they have careers) and that the outcome is often less than desirable. But I honestly don't see how statistics about tattoo removal fit in all of this.

[My AIDS, Your Arse]

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think there was any allusion to a social conspiracy, nor were we suggesting we tell women what to do. Because all of us happen to be male, we can't make observations about anything that doesn't pertain to males and manly metal music? I can see where there would be some oversight however.

There's plenty of people, male and female, that were capable of rising above the crowd, but our problem is people who are capable of getting there but haven't quite made it. I think ANUS has succeeded in philosophizing to males, but for some reason there's a startling lack of females. Well, not so startling, actually. But for the exact reasons why: I have no clue. Is it because, like you said:

women do not respect themselves, are stupid and need our manly guidance.

Who really knows. Males can't say, because they're pretentious, chauvinist pricks, and women can't say because they're stupid materialistic bimbos, apparently, but I was originally unaware.

True femininity has nothing negative about it whatsoever. It's unfortunate that certain negative qualities are characterized as feminine, though, and some of those are actually emphasized in our society.

My point: we need to cross that gender divide. It doesn't take a lifetime of study to understand what's taught here.

Aside from the whole gender/'self-respect' schism, any suggestions that would be made would, in fact, be useful to people who like to try new experiences. Instead of getting a tattoo because it's so "new and exciting," and would appeal to the 50 or so people in your lifetime who see it, point at it and get a laugh for 2 seconds, why not spend a day in a sensory deprivation chamber? It's not socially amusing... hmm.

How many parents do you know that don't mind it if their kids get tattoos? Outside of the lower classes (who's parents often have tattoos too, and where it can be considered a great compliment to have some names or faces of your family members tattooed on your chest) I don't know of any parent who will take lightly that their kid got a tattoo. Parents know that tattoos represent certain cultures and most middle class and upper class parents do not want their kids to become part of the lower class culture. I think it's more likely that middle and upper class people who get tattoos at an early age are rebelling against their parents instead of getting too much freedom like the OP suggested. If they really had such a bad upbringing then they would never see the error in their ways and they'd likely never grow up to make $50,000 a year either. Instead they'd live in trailer homes or be strippers still angry at their absent father or/and alcoholic mother.

There's too many good people who are enamored by the 'neo-bohemian' hip lifestyle. The parents just think it's because their kids are creative and artistic, that they support their awkward and hasty decisions and "quirky" behavior. It might just be more prevalent in California though. We're less civilized over here, and about to be poor as fuck.

Most of your metal idols probably have tattoos.

As the old saying goes: Smash your idols.

I live by it, and it's tattooed on my collar bone in calligraphic writing so I won't forget.

[Umbrage]

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think there was any allusion to a social conspiracy, nor were we suggesting we tell women what to do. Because all of us happen to be male, we can't make observations about anything that doesn't pertain to males and manly metal music? I can see where there would be some oversight however.

You're right. I was being too anal. My apologies for that. I agree with your notion that women and men have their bad sides and to try to censor discussions like that is deconstructive. Probably one of the biggest flaws of feminism was not wanting to work together with men but to create some sort of female apartheid system, I wasn't trying to adhere to such attitudes but instead warn about it (which was anal of me to do)

I think the lack of female activity on the anus forums can be explained by that in metal there is a lack of females in general, which in itself is an entirely different discussion. Why females wouldn't feel attracted to the intellectual side of the anus forums I don't know, it's not like this forum only discusses topics that would only interest men. But I think there's at least one or two female forum posters here so I'm not complaining.

There's too many good people who are enamored by the 'neo-bohemian' hip lifestyle. The parents just think it's because their kids are creative and artistic, that they support their awkward and hasty decisions and "quirky" behavior. It might just be more prevalent in California though. We're less civilized over here, and about to be poor as fuck.

I think the type of parents you describe would be a Californian phenomenon then, or maybe just something of the last ten years. My parents were certainly against tattoos and I'm from a middle class background. The kids I knew who's parents weren't against them were lower class and those parents often had tattoos too. So that's where I based my opinions on.

As far as tattoos go I'll just say that it's ironic that tattoos say so much about a person after all. What kind of tattoo it is, what it represents for the person, and especially whether they want to have it removed later...

[Umbrage]

Somewhat related to this thread but from an entirely different perspective: society is hardest on old woman who worked hard her whole life and just wants to die in peace...

Retired nurse Frances Polack has taken an extraordinary measure to ensure doctors do not try to prolong her life against her wishes.

Ms Polack, 85, from Lyndhurst in Hampshire, is so concerned about unwanted medical care that she has invested in a £25 tattoo across the front of her chest. It reads "Do Not Resuscitate" in capital letters and is set around a red heart with a line through it.

"By having this tattoo, nobody can be in any doubt. It's not something I've done on a whim, it can't be washed off and I won't change my mind," she said.

There is enormous pressure on doctors and paramedics, often from the relatives, to try to revive patients at any cost, even when the patient has made their wishes clear on hospital notes.

"I am not afraid of dying. But I am afraid of living when I should be dead."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2819149.stm

[RedReign]

I think the reason that there are few women in the metal community is because:

* It's a fundamentally testosterone-driven style-- there may even be some literal biological reason for this

* By and large it's the single most misogynist style there is, bar nothing.  In this respect it makes hiphop look positively enlightened because hiphop usually only talks about raping women while you have bands like CC talking about how fun it is to chop chicks up with a hatchet.