Martial Arts

[wahn]

As a tangent to the "militarism" thread created by someone asking us what he (?) should do with his life, I inviting people on this board to convene and discuss martial arts.

UFC = crap (not to discredit certain systems used by competitors)

Martial Arts (suggested definition) the utilization of warfare as a metaphysical principle (Plato: "only the dead have sen the end of war") as a spiritual fire (the martial art) to forge a spiritual sword (the martial artist).

Questions:

How would someone new to martial arts go about selecting what to practice? (I usually tell people to study something that involves meditation)

What are some of the laws surrounding martial arts application (ie your body is now a weapon)

Recommended books martial arts.

Anyone here study a particular system? Why?


 

[Devamitra]

The priority, of course, is to teach the body and the mind some aspects of the way of the warrior.

Because everything has to do with the handling of the body, the nerves and the mind in physical discomfort and tense situation, any art will do as long as the teacher is a moral person (to avoid excessive injury), there's a healthy dose of athletic challenge (to counteract escapism, desire for comfort and fat ass) and of course one's own attitude.

Based on modest experience, I recommend the extremely difficult Judo, one of the operative Jujutsu schools or the eclectic Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu.

[Forza Romana]

As for discipline purposes I study iaido. the art of the drawing the sword. Hmm as far as a system for fighting purposes thats a great question.  You always want to be well rounded in your skills so studying a system that as all to offer is best..

[wahn]

From a purely practical self defense / winning a fight perspective: what martial arts would people hererecommned for someone who is short and chubby, or someone who is tall and thin. Ive already been studying southern shaolin kung fu for some years now (on and off i hate to admit)  but would be very much interested in how those of you knowledgeable in martial arts select a system based on physique.

[K. Sear]

From a purely practical self defense / winning a fight perspective: what martial arts would people hererecommned for someone who is short and chubby, or someone who is tall and thin. Ive already been studying southern shaolin kung fu for some years now (on and off i hate to admit)  but would be very much interested in how those of you knowledgeable in martial arts select a system based on physique.

I'm not sure that any pure martial art can be viewed in a straight up "winning a fight" perspective (that's where the MMA crowd comes in, with the greater focus on combat and less on philosophy and overall form).  The closest would probably be a grappling style like judo or jiu jitsu.

Shotkan karate is a style designed for long distance striking and will naturally favour a tall individual.  Gojo ryu karate is a close in style that would probably be easier for a shorter person, but I know little about it.  Throwing arts also tend to favour shorter people since the principle is often to get your centre of gravity lower than your opponent's.

[Nimbostratus]

A lot of traditional martial artists are nothing but  delusional LARPers, with Bujinkan ones being the LARPest.

I prefer to do MMA and to study Lao Tzu, Sun Tzu, Bruce Lee's texts, Mushashi Miyamoto, traditional western fighting-manuals, etc. Then, if you can't find any philosophy in a good MMA fight,  it's your fault.


Btw, check this out, it'll blow your mind. For those that think that martial arts are just eastern stuff: http://www.thearma.org/manuals.htm

[scourge]

It's better to start with simpler concepts like strength, precision, speed, and endurance. Just get your body moving against resistance. Get a handle on nutrition and live it. Then, get acquainted with some war tactics and strategy to get your head programmed. After these baby's first steps the slobber bib can come off and you can start thinking about schools and styles. The untrained, the lazy couch potatos, and the pacifist conflict avoiders tend to have no idea how helpless they really are.

[K. Sear]

It's better to start with simpler concepts like strength, precision, speed, and endurance. Just get your body moving against resistance. Get a handle on nutrition and live it. Then, get acquainted with some war tactics and strategy to get your head programmed. After these baby's first steps the slobber bib can come off and you can start thinking about schools and styles. The untrained, the lazy couch potatos, and the pacifist conflict avoiders tend to have no idea how helpless they really are.

I completely disagree with that.  Of course basic fitness is useful to all aspects of life, but to suggest that it is needed before beginning an education in martial arts is inaccurate.  I've instructed a number of very unfit individuals and their skills, both mental and physical, progress similar to anyone else.  So, fitness will come and the necessary mental aspects will already be in place.

[Werewolf]

Just join a boxing gym. If you absolutely must wear a gi, do Judo. Google 'Aliveness in martial arts'.

[scourge]

I completely disagree with that.  Of course basic fitness is useful to all aspects of life, but to suggest that it is needed before beginning an education in martial arts is inaccurate.  I've instructed a number of very unfit individuals and their skills, both mental and physical, progress similar to anyone else.  So, fitness will come and the necessary mental aspects will already be in place.

The first thing any army in the world does with raw recruits is have them drop to their faces and begin pushing. While this initial step is less about physical training at first and more about weeding out those who are brittle in character, it is in line with what I was implying, which is to get the whole person, mind, body, and spirit on the same page with what's ahead.

[wahn]

A lot of traditional martial artists are nothing but  delusional LARPers, with Bujinkan ones being the LARPest.

I prefer to do MMA and to study Lao Tzu, Sun Tzu, Bruce Lee's texts, Mushashi Miyamoto, traditional western fighting-manuals, etc. Then, if you can't find any philosophy in a good MMA fight,  it's your fault.


Btw, check this out, it'll blow your mind. For those that think that martial arts are just eastern stuff: http://www.thearma.org/manuals.htm

Disagree. Are you getting your information from popular culture (tv, hollywood) ? Take for instance zazen, which has proven effects on the brain:l http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Brain-Understanding-Meditation-Consciousness/dp/0262511096/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258819354&sr=8-1 Kung Fu was developed by an indian prince who sought to supplement meditation through exercise. That is why a lot of the traditional martial arts schools sit after they exercise - it enhances meditation. Further, the awareness of qi that comes through meditation allowed kung fu to incoroprate qi  gong into what simply loks like exercise to an outsider.  The only value I see in UFC is that it present scientists with some sort of forum in which they can apply the empirical method to martial arts, very much like experimenting with rats.

Finally, even if your interpretation of kung uf were correc, it would still be beautiful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW_cmU3hcg4

[chittyxvx]

Recommended books martial arts.

I highly recommend that you track down a copy of Bruce Lee's The Tao of Jeet Kune Do.
Its a philosophical musing upon the closemindedness of traditional martial arts schools of thought, and doubles as a basic primer for moves, footwork and fitness in the second half. The first section deals with Lee's critique of only being involved in one set school of training, and to be the best fighter one can be, they need to "be like water" and embrace multiple styles.

[wahn]

Recommended books martial arts.

I highly recommend that you track down a copy of Bruce Lee's The Tao of Jeet Kune Do.
Its a philosophical musing upon the closemindedness of traditional martial arts schools of thought, and doubles as a basic primer for moves, footwork and fitness in the second half. The first section deals with Lee's critique of only being involved in one set school of training, and to be the best fighter one can be, they need to "be like water" and embrace multiple styles.

I will look into that book. Thank you. Do you know of any other accomplished martial artists that apply more modern scientific methods to the advancement of martial martial arts? Further, I dont think the dichotomy of modern and traditional holds water. There is a big difference between breaking from traditional kung fu after having studied it for years and rejecting it outright.

[Nimbostratus]

A lot of traditional martial artists are nothing but  delusional LARPers, with Bujinkan ones being the LARPest.

I prefer to do MMA and to study Lao Tzu, Sun Tzu, Bruce Lee's texts, Mushashi Miyamoto, traditional western fighting-manuals, etc. Then, if you can't find any philosophy in a good MMA fight,  it's your fault.


Btw, check this out, it'll blow your mind. For those that think that martial arts are just eastern stuff: http://www.thearma.org/manuals.htm

Disagree. Are you getting your information from popular culture (tv, hollywood) ? Take for instance zazen, which has proven effects on the brain:l http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Brain-Understanding-Meditation-Consciousness/dp/0262511096/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258819354&sr=8-1 Kung Fu was developed by an indian prince who sought to supplement meditation through exercise. That is why a lot of the traditional martial arts schools sit after they exercise - it enhances meditation. Further, the awareness of qi that comes through meditation allowed kung fu to incoroprate qi  gong into what simply loks like exercise to an outsider.  The only value I see in UFC is that it present scientists with some sort of forum in which they can apply the empirical method to martial arts, very much like experimenting with rats.

Finally, even if your interpretation of kung uf were correc, it would still be beautiful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW_cmU3hcg4

No, my own experience. Zazen and martial arts as forms of meditation are good, but then, traditional martial arts become martial dance... something about a fight, something very beautiful about fighting if you will, but not a fight itself, as Bruce would say. MMA is basically a fighting sport, but, why not to find philosophy in sports, as the ancient greek did?

The problem is when westerns buy their oriental stuff and think they're learning the ultimate battle tricks "for the real life, not for the ring".

Of course you can still doing Zazen and martial dance without LARPing.

[Stranger]

UFC = crap (not to discredit certain systems used by competitors)

I'd like to know why you think the UFC is crap. Do you not like the violent aspect of the sport? 

I find it really interesting to watch two different fighters apply their own style to a fight and see who bests the other. Most fans of the UFC don't know much of anything when it comes to mixed martial arts. They are looking for as much blood and gore as possible. But, if you are a true student of the sport, you appreciate every move being done, and the amount of discipline that it takes to perform on the levels they do. Every fight doesn't need to end in someone being knocked out either. There are some real technical maneuvers being done.