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Apocalit: books about the collapse


Re: Apocalit: books about the collapse
November 21, 2009, 11:34:22 PM
Thank you.

Two more:

Non-fiction:

* How Civilizations Fall: A Theory of Catabolic Collapse, by John Michael Greer

"Fiction":

* Book VIII of The Republic, by Plato ;)

Re: Apocalit: books about the collapse
November 22, 2009, 12:50:02 AM

"Doxa (δόξα) is a Greek word meaning common belief or popular opinion, from which are derived the modern terms of orthodoxy[1] and heterodoxy.[2] Used by the Greek rhetoricians as a tool for the formation of argument by using common opinions, the doxa was often manipulated by sophists to persuade the people, leading to Plato's condemnation of Athenian democracy."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxa

Or in this case: anusocracy




Re: Apocalit: books about the collapse
November 22, 2009, 01:42:19 AM
I would argue that what goethe said of revolutions applies also to collapse: they destroy both the desired AND undesired. My reaction to this thread is: work to prevent collapse. Intuitively I would argue that a lot of people celebrate the final collapse of the west because they can imagine a better word, which is a fundamentally christian attitude to life and reality.

Re: Apocalit: books about the collapse
November 22, 2009, 02:52:53 AM
I would argue that what goethe said of revolutions applies also to collapse: they destroy both the desired AND undesired. My reaction to this thread is: work to prevent collapse. Intuitively I would argue that a lot of people celebrate the final collapse of the west because they can imagine a better word, which is a fundamentally christian attitude to life and reality.

I don't think anyone here was explicitly welcoming or condemning a collapse. These works are a way of examining why and how it happens. Obviously it is best to avoid collapse, but it is an inevitability, for all civilizations.

Re: Apocalit: books about the collapse
November 22, 2009, 03:27:23 AM
Apologies for misreading your thread. Of course, there are other signs of (cultural) collapse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FARDDcdFaQ

Re: Apocalit: books about the collapse
November 22, 2009, 06:31:08 AM
Naked Lunch, by William S. Burroughs

I recently brought up Naked Lunch in a conversation about apocalyptic literature.  Not surprisingly I got "dystopia" thrown back at me.

Burroughs and his clan of Johnson's fear total control and demoralization more than anything; life is not worth living under those conditions.  Interzone and the surrounding territories operate on vast hierarchies of control, and most everyone suffers as a result.

With the assistance of a few instigators, vying castes are either gobbled up (sometimes in tandem) or transformed into creatures that exhibit insect-like obedience.  This occurs in an almost entirely unisex world where the only reproduction to speak of is achieved through the replication of control addicts who'll probably just speed up the arrival to total control.

I think a lot of people overlook Naked Lunch as apocalyptic simply because the above is illustrated as a process toward the point of no return instead of a single event.

Re: Apocalit: books about the collapse
November 22, 2009, 08:42:13 PM
I suggest "New Science" by Giambattista Vico (http://www.amazon.com/Science-Penguin-Classics-Giambattista-Vico/dp/0140435697/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258920095&sr=8-1)

Yockey's Imperium, from what I have read, is also interesting, though somewhat incomplete and at points - not profound enough. Read it here:
http://www.vaidilute.com/books/imperium/imperium-contents.html

And, I believe someone will eventually recommend  The Decline of the West by Oswald Spengler:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4654238/Decline-of-the-West-Volume-I-Form-and-Actuality-by-Oswald-Spengler-
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4654389/Decline-of-the-West-Volume-II-Perspectives-of-World-by-Oswald-Spengler
The greatest piece of history in history.

Re: Apocalit: books about the collapse
November 23, 2009, 05:09:36 AM
Hm... Brave New World, some sort of science-fiction novel nobody has mentioned yet I think everybody knows refers to a dystopia too; covers the main signs of cultural collapse we see in modern society.

Re: Apocalit: books about the collapse
November 23, 2009, 06:04:32 PM
Progressivism is the common opinion orthodoxy of our time. If only the universal egalitarians like Hegel were acquainted with basic physics, they would realize that because the volume and frequency of thesis is variable, synthesis is an exception,  not a rule.

Re: Apocalit: books about the collapse
November 24, 2009, 06:57:04 AM
A Short History Of Progress - Ronald Wright

Anthropological philosopher Wright reflects on history's mistakes across various cultures via archaeological record.  He explains how our current predicament is as old as civilization and argues that only by understanding the patterns of progress and folly that humanity has repeated everywhere from ancient Rome to Easter Island can we learn to change our ways and, with luck and wisdom, avoid a disastrous outcome.

Re: Apocalit: books about the collapse
November 25, 2009, 03:25:30 PM
I would argue that what goethe said of revolutions applies also to collapse: they destroy both the desired AND undesired.

I agree.

I think most people here believe collapse is inevitable and undesired, but want to use it as a good excuse to remove the blown-out elements of our civilization.

Since we live in a democracy, of course, anything that a over-120 person perceives but the great masses of under-120s do not is considered not truth.

It's a great conspiracy to do nothing, and the only thing that forces its hand are great tragedies. "Bigger than 9/11!"