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Immolation - Majesty and Decay

Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 20, 2010, 06:13:01 AM
Sounds pretty good to me. Orthodox phrasing, quasi-epic song structures and internal riffs, although said song perhaps lacks some of the tranisitional subtely the characterized earlier works. Same focus on accessible rhytyms, but more subtle than immediately preceeding works. A variety of tempo changes. The melodies are slightly lacking but are nonetheless reminiscent of previous immolation records. Something is slightly amiss, i am inclined to think that their is not enough contrast between riffs, a lack of dissonance perhaps?

I will continue to listen and suspend my judgement for the time being.

These are general impressions so far....i eagerly await the new album..

Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 20, 2010, 02:19:21 PM
Not a fan of this track at all.

As was mentioned, it reminds me more of Cannibal Corpse/Behemoth than Immolation.

They've simplified their music in order to get more popular so they can stop working day jobs and can concentrate on music full time. It's what happens to every popular music band at some point. The audience, statistically/demographically, does not reward "good."


Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 20, 2010, 03:41:17 PM
Im not sure i hear the Nile/Behemoth/Cannibal Corpse influence, but i do not listen to any of those bands. A more complete exposition explaining the problem with the song would be beneficial. I think their may be something to Immolation making their music more accessible, this may explain the lack of signature dissonance, a toned down verison of it anyhow. I noticed that guitar squeals have turned into low end bends, creating a groove quality to the music at points. Lets be gracious for the time being and give Immolation the benefit of the doubt?

Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 20, 2010, 05:28:16 PM
Im not sure i hear the Nile/Behemoth/Cannibal Corpse influence, but i do not listen to any of those bands. A more complete exposition explaining the problem with the song would be beneficial. I think their may be something to Immolation making their music more accessible, this may explain the lack of signature dissonance, a toned down verison of it anyhow. I noticed that guitar squeals have turned into low end bends, creating a groove quality to the music at points. Lets be gracious for the time being and give Immolation the benefit of the doubt?

The problem is, at least with the last few albums, that their 'singles' that they put on myspace before the albums were released were often the best from the album. I'm not a big fan of this track so I hope it's not one of the standout songs from the new one.

Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 21, 2010, 03:35:07 AM
Not a fan of this track at all.

As was mentioned, it reminds me more of Cannibal Corpse/Behemoth than Immolation.

They've simplified their music in order to get more popular so they can stop working day jobs and can concentrate on music full time. It's what happens to every popular music band at some point. The audience, statistically/demographically, does not reward "good."



Do you know them personally that you feel so free and comfortable with proclaiming what their motivations and intentions are? 


Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 21, 2010, 06:04:25 AM
There was an interview on here a while back where Ross Dolan said the band was deliberately trying to simplify their music over the last couple of albums, but you'd be reading extra into that statement to assume that the style change is commercially motivated.

I know Suffocation has said as much, but I don't think Immolation has ever said anything about wanting the band to become their full-time gig.

Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 21, 2010, 06:11:51 AM
I don't recall that either. Honestly? If a band like Immolation is able to make B grade death metal and make a good living off of it, then I feel glad for them. They've put in their time and deserve to reap the benefits. I do NOT feel the same way for a band like Six Feet Under or some other crap.

Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 21, 2010, 06:21:01 AM
There was an interview on here a while back where Ross Dolan said the band was deliberately trying to simplify their music over the last couple of albums, but you'd be reading extra into that statement to assume that the style change is commercially motivated.

I know Suffocation has said as much, but I don't think Immolation has ever said anything about wanting the band to become their full-time gig.

Valid point. I will not pretend that I can speak for anyone in the group myself, but having only recently spoken with Ross on this very subject, I sincerely doubt their is any truth whatever to a conscious "sellout" or any illusions of quitting jobs, going pro, etc. Indeed, I am quite certain they would find the whole notion comical.

Whatever any of us think about the new tune or newer material, I believe it altogether unfair to ascribe motives to them which they have never put forth, and just do not match their career/history. Suffocation, on the other hand...



Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 21, 2010, 11:14:12 PM
They've simplified their music in order to get more popular so they can stop working day jobs and can concentrate on music full time. It's what happens to every popular music band at some point. The audience, statistically/demographically, does not reward "good."

Do you know them personally that you feel so free and comfortable with proclaiming what their motivations and intentions are?  [/quote]

Two points of note:

(a) Extend "death of the author" theory: most people have no conscious idea why they do what they do. They react to pressures.
(b) 99% of all metal, rock, jazz and pop bands follow this path: you start out ideologically motivated, then get tired of working two jobs.

You are correct in that I don't know them personally. However, over 20+ years of observing music, I've seen this pattern many times and with good people. Watch this band, and in five years, we can resume this conversation and then we'll know what was right.

Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 22, 2010, 02:34:06 AM
To an extent, Immolation has been following a formula ever since they figured out their style on "Here in After", all the way down to where they place the songs on their albums (open with the fast one, then play the catchy/sweetly poignant ones, a slow one at about the half-way point, then the dark ones, and then the epic closer).  Whatever variation of their style they put on each album is what is going to make it succeed or falter, and their stated goal with this one, "our fastest and most aggressive" isn't exactly inspiring (didn't Slayer already get the final word on that goal 25 years ago?).  

I suspect that in the "5 year scale", there won't be any discernable quality trajectory- it'll be all over the place, based on whatever twist they put on that particular album, as it has been for their past several albums (CtaWB wasn't as good as Failures... but Unholy Cult was better than CtaWB... but Harnessing Ruin was near to unlistenable... but Shadows in the Light was their best in the 2000s...).

As for those wondering how this is like Nile or Behemoth:
First riff- short phrase high-speed 4 chord "technical" riff.  Followed by a really obvious rhythm riff, a solo with no relation to the riff beneath, and a random acoustic break thrown in half-way through.  Throw in the bouncy riff at about the 2:20 mark that has nothing to do with anything else in the song aside from harmonic similarity, transitioning back into the first riff, and it's obviously that "deathmetalcore" style of making all of the parts seem "shockingly" different from each other.  Immolation does this style better any other known band, but it's still kind of a dead end style. 

Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 22, 2010, 05:17:13 AM
Interesting synopsis of the track. However, i am unsure whether i woudl agree that their is a deathcore style of making riffs shockingly different from one another. Perhaps i do not have the most subtle ears. Nonetheless i believe it is the abrupt transitioning that makes the song seem unfocused, or "deathmetalcorish", not neccessarily each riff being shockingly different in and of themselves.

Repeated listens have revealed a few suspicions:

1. This may be music for the sake of music
2. There are signs of a band struggling to find an identity or voice
 
and

3. It is curious that i did not notice much of a behemoth/nile influence, probably because these bands were influenced by Immolation and now immolation is being influenced by bands that they influenced. We are now at a copy of copy and that much further removed from "reality" perhaps? This is what will probably trick me into liking the album or song. However time always tells, whats good is remebered and provides a lasting  musical experience.




Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 22, 2010, 06:23:59 AM
I think the answer is simpler - it's not as easy to make something new and inspired on album 9 as it is on album 1. I can say with certainty that whatever is motivating their current approach, it's not monetary. All the guys in the band work jobs and don't have any illusions about making a living on their music. They've asserted in numerous interviews that they stay around simply because they like doing it. The quality of their recent output can be debated, but I think their motives are honest.

Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 22, 2010, 04:58:44 PM
2. There are signs of a band struggling to find an identity or voice
This has been a problem of the band for a while now.  It's more obvious if you see them live.

Quote
I think the answer is simpler - it's not as easy to make something new and inspired on album 9 as it is on album 1. I can say with certainty that whatever is motivating their current approach, it's not monetary. All the guys in the band work jobs and don't have any illusions about making a living on their music. They've asserted in numerous interviews that they stay around simply because they like doing it. The quality of their recent output can be debated, but I think their motives are honest.
This is a more succinct version of what I was trying to get at with the first couple of paragraphs of my previous post.  It's not that they're interested in money; it's that they've been doing this so long that it's become habit, and thus easy to go through the motions.

Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 22, 2010, 09:26:44 PM
Having gone back and listened to earlier Immolation albums, there also seems to be a self assured understanding of the art in their earlier albums. Riffs are brooding and Immolation seems well in control of what they are doing, there is no rushing through riffs. This does not seem to be the case on "The Purge". The riff after the acoustic breakdown also seems unsteady, something i can rarely say about riffs in earlier works.

Re: Immolation reveal new album details
January 23, 2010, 11:52:42 AM
Just for clarification - I'm not so much debating the criticisms noted here, just the question of (conscious)motivation, which has been addressed more or less.