Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Album Devaluation

Album Devaluation
March 21, 2010, 06:00:51 AM
Should a band's inferior releases influence our judgment of their good ones? Poor releases, just as much as good ones, give us insight into the band and their career as a whole and shed light on their other works. After all, Darkthrone in 2010 has the same members as Darkthrone 1990: If their later releases show poor songwriting then it's absurd to attribute a flash of brilliance to their earlier music, just as absurd as it is to say they were in poor form when they wrote FOAD. Think about it this way: If you purchase an apple you're buying the whole thing, not just the parts you can eat. An apple is not only the tasty flesh but the core, seeds and stem. If you saw an advertisement showing the inside of an apple, just the core and seeds, you would probably say 'well i'm not going to buy that'. But those bits - however undesirable - are necessary part of the apple and part of its whole. I just don't think it's right to say 'I like Darkthrone, but only their early stuff.' Each album shows me a different facet of Darkthrone and over 10 years of releasing crap shows me I don't actually like Darkthrone that much. The album/band distinction just seems totally nonsensical to me, we should stop severing parts of discographies and accept a band/composer entirely without reservation. There was no such absurdity in the classical era - a composer was the sum of his works.

Re: Album Devaluation
March 21, 2010, 06:25:10 AM
So, are there any bands left to like?

Re: Album Devaluation
March 21, 2010, 08:31:55 AM
I would have to say, of course not.  It is completely possible to separate one piece of work from the next.  If one really doesn't enjoy "Under a Funeral Moon" or "Transilvanian Hunger" after a number of crap releases, I would have to ask if they ever enjoyed them for what they are in the first place.

As the poster above said, is there anything worth listening to anymore if we take that approach?  It seems like a defeatist dead end to me.
"Love thy neighbour" is a fucking joke, for few are worthy of my love.

Re: Album Devaluation
March 21, 2010, 11:49:33 AM
When I buy an apple, what I really pay for is the "tasty flesh" and I throw away the rest. Same with the music. Distinguishing between different albums of same composer makes complete sense.

Re: Album Devaluation
March 21, 2010, 01:37:44 PM
What happens to an apple if you let it sit, esoteric?
HE WHO REAPS STORMS, SOWS WINDS. HE WHO SOWS WINDS, REAPS STORMS.

"It is better to go to a house of mourning than to go to a house of feasting, for death is the destiny of every man; the living should take this to heart."
-Ecclesiastes 7:2

Re: Album Devaluation
March 21, 2010, 03:48:37 PM
Should a band's inferior releases influence our judgment of their good ones? Poor releases, just as much as good ones, give us insight into the band and their career as a whole and shed light on their other works.

You're begging the question.

Quote
After all, Darkthrone in 2010 has the same members as Darkthrone 1990

Not true.

Quote
If their later releases show poor songwriting then it's absurd to attribute a flash of brilliance to their earlier music

You have to demonstrate why it is absurd, not just state it.  If there was a flash of brilliance -- an artifact of the Zeitgeist and the music itself -- then there was a flash of brilliance.  Working in reverse temporal order to render these judgments makes no sense.  Ditto the incoherent apple analogy.

Quote
I just don't think it's right to say 'I like Darkthrone, but only their early stuff.' Each album shows me a different facet of Darkthrone and over 10 years of releasing crap shows me I don't actually like Darkthrone that much.

No, you just don't like the works in question that much.  You have yet to make the connection from that to rejecting other individual works.

Quote
The album/band distinction just seems totally nonsensical to me, we should stop severing parts of discographies and accept a band/composer entirely without reservation.

"Accept" it in what sense?  I think most everybody here accepts that later DARKTHRONE is just as bad as the early stuff is brilliant.  Why don't we instead say that all DARKTHRONE is brilliant?  Or that "DARKTHRONE" is brilliant (which is what is being said; see below)?

Quote
There was no such absurdity in the classical era - a composer was the sum of his works.

Yes, they are the sum of their works, as in their complete corpus is required in some sense to place them among other practitioners in their tradition.  Same case here, with all the same "absurdity."

Re: Album Devaluation
March 21, 2010, 04:01:27 PM
I'll try to demystify what is really pretty simple.

Band X
1st album: 7
2nd album: 9
3rd album: 6
4th album: 5

Band X average: 6.75

Band Y
1st album: 8
2nd album: 10
3rd album: 7
4th album: 4

Band Y average: 7.25

Band Z
1st album: 8
2nd album: 9
3rd album: 9
4th album: 4

Band Z average: 7.5

Genre ranking
First place: Band Z
Second place: Band Y
Third place: Band X
”The Revolution ends by devouring its own children” – Jacques Mallet du Pan, 1793

Re: Album Devaluation
March 21, 2010, 04:18:58 PM
I'll try to demystify what is really pretty simple.

That's fine, except his argument is:

Band X
1st album: 9
2nd album: 8
3rd album: 4 -- first two albums written down to 8 and 7, respectively
4th album: 5 -- first two albums written down to 7 and 6

Band X is now irrelevant and none of their works are worthy of praise or attention.

Re: Album Devaluation
March 21, 2010, 05:20:18 PM
I see the problem. This is a function of the contextless thinking that infects our time: the age old particular versus the universal.

Brand Darkthrone supposedly occupies its own individual disconnected niche. Brand Darkthrone has failed me so I no longer associate with this brand.

versus

Under a Funeral Moon and Transylvanian Hunger thus far remain highly important works within the black metal art as a whole.
”The Revolution ends by devouring its own children” – Jacques Mallet du Pan, 1793

Re: Album Devaluation
March 21, 2010, 05:42:19 PM
Such a averaging process is no more than mental masturbation, and besides that, it defeats the point completely.  We support quality metal in hopes that bands will continue making it.  We don't devalue good albums because the later ones are bad. 


If anything, just look at it as a decision of what you want your perspective to be.  Do you want to praise quality work, or do you want to find pleasure from watching things degenerate?

Re: Album Devaluation
March 22, 2010, 07:54:18 AM
Judging music through "band" is like judging painting through signature. Talking about a band is more of a historical statement. Talking about an album's quality is foremost talking about music.
Mixing those may result in poor conclusions. Tooking one for the other shall surely produce poor conclusions.
World War I as the End of Civilization.
Tolkien as a Libertarian.
Sammaellofi:So for now on, when someone asks you what good metal is, don't say Slayer, Darkthrone, Morbid Angel, but instead say Hell Awaits, Transilvanian Hunger and Blessed are the Sick.

Re: Album Devaluation
March 22, 2010, 08:39:07 AM
This whole idea seems to be both contrived and reactionary.  "Their new music is crap, so I'm going to throw a hissy fit and not listen to any of their music at all, in protest".

Quote from: Me
contrived and reactionary

Russian/French Revolutions, anyone?  "Some among the Aristocracy are disgusting excuses for humans; the solution is to kill all of the Aristocracy (and see if we can do any better ourselves)".

Then again, if people didn't air their ideas, Humanity would likely fail even faster than it already is.

Re: Album Devaluation
March 22, 2010, 12:38:32 PM
^ I think Cargest just got to the heart of this problem with the French Revolution metaphor.  "What have you done for me lately?" mentality.


I am always amazed by how this site actually forgives bands who went bad once they start makiing good music again.  That is the way to go.  ALWAYS reward the good and ALWAYS punish the band.  Never say "Well you betrayed me so now I hate you forever!"

Re: Album Devaluation
March 23, 2010, 02:39:48 AM
ALWAYS reward the good and ALWAYS punish the band.

Eugenics!

I think there is a "real world" effect where bands put out a turd and as a result, people lose interest in their older albums because they no longer have a "buy anything, it's all good" body of work.

If this weren't so, Darkthrone wouldn't have to keep pumping out new albums for an audience that has for the most part never heard their older work.

Re: Album Devaluation
March 23, 2010, 01:56:00 PM
On another quick not, do you ever get the feeling that no one listens to newer Darkthrone?   I mean, a lot of people outside of this circle seem to think their new albums are cool, and that it is cool that they make such statements as they do, and many people buy the albums thinking they would be cool to own, but do you ever get the feeling that no one sits around listening to the Cult is Alive.... at all?