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The death of extreme islam in the west

The death of extreme islam in the west
March 21, 2010, 08:59:47 PM
Online Islamic sex-shop opens for business (link)

Certain people suggest that extreme Islam is going to take over Europe. I think they're wrong. The shakes that have gone through Europe in the last ten years are nothing more than the death throes of conservative Islam. European Islam will keep becoming more liberal just like the left and center-right had planned. The problems with maladjusted immigrants will remain but those can be blamed on antisocial behavior, not on being good muslims. Meanwhile the populist right has secured its position in European politics, in some countries they are doomed to be the eternal opposition yet the populist right has created its own voice in the last ten years while conservative Islam keeps losing its voice. Eventually conservative Islam will become no more special or threatening than conservative christianity, in fact the smart conservative muslims will learn to work together with the conservative christian parties. The Islamic hornet will remain in Europe but it's lost its sting.

What do you think?

Re: The death of extreme islam in the west
March 21, 2010, 09:13:37 PM
A Europeanized Islam, domesticated and stripped of any real content (like modern Christianity) is indeed developing, at least on the fringes of the Muslim community, particularly among established, upwardly mobile immigrants.  However, the younger generation remains much more receptive to Islamic traditionalism and radicalism, and this is particularly true among more recent immigrants.  The reality is that Europe lacks the economic capacity to fully integrate and assimilate the Islamic populations already present, even if the immigration spigot was closed tomorrow, so we're far more likely to see "extreme" Islam become more prevalent among European Muslims, rather than less so.  And, of course, the immigration spigot is still running wide open, so the problem will likely just mushroom in the next 10-15 years.

Re: The death of extreme islam in the west
March 24, 2010, 08:16:58 PM
The only thing that will happen is that Wahabist Islam would declare them too as Kuffur (heretics) and mandate a Jihad against them.

Re: The death of extreme islam in the west
March 26, 2010, 12:05:58 AM
A Europeanized Islam, domesticated and stripped of any real content (like modern Christianity) is indeed developing, at least on the fringes of the Muslim community, particularly among established, upwardly mobile immigrants.  However, the younger generation remains much more receptive to Islamic traditionalism and radicalism, and this is particularly true among more recent immigrants.  The reality is that Europe lacks the economic capacity to fully integrate and assimilate the Islamic populations already present, even if the immigration spigot was closed tomorrow, so we're far more likely to see "extreme" Islam become more prevalent among European Muslims, rather than less so.  And, of course, the immigration spigot is still running wide open, so the problem will likely just mushroom in the next 10-15 years.

You're right about traditionalism being popular and probably remaining so, but I'm not sure about radicalism. A lot of the supposed radicalism among immigrants children is based on the medias presentation of Islamic terrorism. What it essentially leads to is some maladjusted kids considering Bin Laden a pop-idol yet still they commit crimes against Islam themselves (drinking, sex, drugs, etc) In that sense Muslim extremism in Europe is as much a failure as the white trash nazi skinhead movement who pride themselves just on the idea that they're white.

Meanwhile the traditional side is turned into a novelty item. Politically minded muslims can't get their act together and fight amongst themselves until only useless splinter movements remain (again just like the extreme right does) Every time the media reports about "incidents" and "potential threats" the populist right gains more voters. Loudmouthed imams are deported from the country, mosques are under heavy pressure to have pro-western Imams preaching, France bans the headscarf and Belgium will likely do the same, Switzerland has banned minarets, the list goes on.

All the violence in the world won't save the Islamic extremists, it will only further their downfall. They're fighting a battle they can't win, Europe is getting more and more fed up with them. The immigration spigot is still running wide open but companies are getting the low-wage workers from Eastern European (christian) countries now instead of from Islamic countries so the problem will not mushroom but fade further in the next 10-15 years until we reach a point where the Islamic version of "Life Of Brian" is shown on TV.

Re: The death of extreme islam in the west
March 26, 2010, 10:02:08 AM
There's a part in each and everyone how opposes the Liberal-Humanistic host of thoughts and deeds that wants the world of plastic flowers and empty glass towers to crumble miserably and die as tragically as possible against the beast from the east. However, if the Liberal world will win the war against the sirocco of the beard-covered fundamentalist, we are left only with a vestige of hope that it is no at 'collapse from without" but "death from within" - that will destroy the flower-coated monstrosity -- Western Liberal Civilization. Let there be no mistakes, for if Democracy wins, we are on our way to a global confederation, a novel type of post-civilizational cultural, economical, social order - in which, any opposition and rebellion is nothing but a useless mutiny of "anti-establishment" infantile coterie. Alas and alack, organizations like ANUS will be labeled as such, and grandiose poetry and literature will not save the post-civilizational rebels, who will surely rise against the 'Global Human Confederation" - drawing inspiration from writers such as Plato, Nietzsche, Linkola, Evola, Spengler or anyone who's considered anti-democratic. Do not think Europe learns anything from its present experience. The whole conduct of Europeans seems as if they are only demanding 'immediate solution' to a contemporary problem; in longer terms - they will whine and quiver melodramatically at hearkening the possible prospects of peace, prosperity, love and phallus from behind and above (if we are to think of 'Far Right' political solutions). Anyhow, the 'far right' of today is no the 'far right' of yesterday - they'll probably be anti-Islamic pussies.

On the other hand, we have Islam or more particularly Islamic fundamentalists movement, called by many the 'greatest' threat to the worldly scheme of the late 20th to early 21th century - if they'll win the battle against the infidels and heretics of the west who dare raise against the laws of Allah - we are stuck with another goddamn pointless religion. So, we dethrone Christianity (which we oppose in 'practical theory' and 'conduct' but support in 'divine ambition' -- to 'see the world in a grander sense' - correlative to the idea of God / Nature which people here support in one way or another), but we get another religion which is so constrained and anti-"thinking". All in all, we get nothing.

Europeanized Islam seems like a perfect victory to Liberalism and Multiculturalism (we need not mention the 'Mono-culturalism' that it'll eventually create). There's of course the Islam outside the western world, but I think it too is getting westernized, economized and Capitalized - oil reserves are more important than eroded religious ideals, which are kept privately.
The fundamentalists are nothing but a drop in the ocean.
Islam outside of the occident will suffer greatly from Capitalism, as they will get Americanized and Westernized with a greater exposure to the 'marvels' of modernity. It is happening in Lebanon, Turkey, Dubai and even partially in Iran. Islamic countries will become tourist 'Meccas' for westerners who wish to quench their thirst for exotic and faraway lands with barbaric customs. This will probably create a newer wave of Islamic terror, with religious leaders calling to restore the honor and greatness of Islam. As you can see, the loop goes on, and I suppose the west, should it win and strengthen it lines and become more immune - will win anytime - until the wretched spirit of modernity be distilled within the 'souls' of people around the world.  But...well, at least the Chinese will remain autonomous to a certain extent!

I think the solution is always taking business into your own hands and relying less on the factions around you.
What the world needs is a real revolution. But will it happen?

Re: The death of extreme islam in the west
March 26, 2010, 11:22:29 AM
The Islamists know that they cannot takeover the world as much they would like to and think they are succeeding. There is always a balance of power, an equilibrium which exists in the Cosmos and in human history. Nature always endows all species with common abilities and some special ones. But when a species dominates too much their power is reduced through force or evolution. The same applies to mankind. Each tribe at one time or the other has tried or wants to try and be the dominant one. Some have succeeded and some have not. Some tribes have seen what happens when you try to dominate everyone and are wise enough not to pursue the path of domination. Of course there are some tribes who simply cannot dominate other tribes simply because of their intrinsic inability to dominate.

Look at all ancient cultures. Some used force to dominate in their own territories or conquered other lands and they fell from grace as expected. This rise and fall is part of the greater cycle in Cosmos of birth and death. All ancient civilizations had a birth, grew strong by learning the ways of survival, creation of art, trade and the usual course of tribal evolution and then they peaked, stagnated, declined and fell. Some civilizations survived the decline and managed to morph into a a neo-civilization.

Islam has it's time of rise and peak. In my opinion, Islam is going through an internal change in the social context through it's narrow worldview. I think this is more to do with the fall of Judaism and Christianity. Islam is a counter reaction to the domination of Christianity over the last 300 years.

There is a "spiritual" and political vacuum created by the decline of Christianity(which brought in atheistic materialism from theistic materialism) hence, Islam is filling that vacuum. Islam is fascistic from a  cultural, spiritual and social perspective. This is in opposition to atheistic materialism in the West.

However Islam is not completely guilty of being aggressive. The atheist and (morally and ethically) corrupt theists in the West want to provoke a confrontation.

The days of colonial "glory" and imperialism passed after World War 2. The United States saw a chance to be a formidable but "benevolent" force in the world which they saw as fit to dominate, which is no different from the British Empire which justified itself to many of it's colonies as "liberators", "saviors", "benevolent" rulers who were there in the colonies to "help" the noble savages.

There will be a showdown between the West and Islam and this might not be necessarily be an all out war but more do with civilization and cultural unity. The victorious from this war will emerge bruised, exhausted, disillusioned and broken beyond repair, only to to die a painful death.

While this happens the best we can do as an individual, is to protect yourself, your family, friends and things which you care about the most. The rest should left to the natural course of human history.

Re: The death of extreme islam in the west
March 27, 2010, 09:47:41 PM
Wise words. Though I can't help feel angry about what is happening. I feel like I was born at the wrong time, and wish I was around before Christianity came out of the desert and into europe. And now the same is happening with Islam and it's spreading everywhere in the name of "peace".

Re: The death of extreme islam in the west
March 27, 2010, 09:54:56 PM
Wise words. Though I can't help feel angry about what is happening. I feel like I was born at the wrong time, and wish I was around before Christianity came out of the desert and into europe. And now the same is happening with Islam and it's spreading everywhere in the name of "peace".

I hear many people say this when they observe the many problems and the confusion the modern world is facing. "I should have been born in another time."

It struck me just now that now could be the perfect time for us to live as we have a purpose. Anti-social critics and de-/re-constructionist philosophers have no purpose in a healthy time. I think you were born in the perfect time as this time needs you.

Re: The death of extreme islam in the west
March 27, 2010, 10:00:49 PM
Wise words. Though I can't help feel angry about what is happening. I feel like I was born at the wrong time, and wish I was around before Christianity came out of the desert and into europe. And now the same is happening with Islam and it's spreading everywhere in the name of "peace".

I hear many people say this when they observe the many problems and the confusion the modern world is facing. "I should have been born in another time."

It struck me just now that now could be the perfect time for us to live as we have a purpose. Anti-social critics and de-/re-constructionist philosophers have no purpose in a healthy time. I think you were born in the perfect time as this time needs you.

Yes!

"I wish none of this had ever happened."

"So do I, " said Gandalf "And so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

-Gandalf, from The Fellowship of the Ring, chapter II: The Shadow of the Past, by J.R.R. Tolkien

Epic wisdom!

Re: The death of extreme islam in the west
March 28, 2010, 12:51:47 AM
I guess all the most influential people were out of step with their time and wanted to see things differently. I certainly don't want to be living under sha'riah law.

Re: The death of extreme islam in the west
April 09, 2010, 12:48:26 PM
The only thing that will happen is that Wahabist Islam would declare them too as Kuffur (heretics) and mandate a Jihad against them.

It seems that Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) will be taking care of this personally:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1264535/Muslim-woman-strangled-burkha-freak-kart-accident.html


Re: The death of extreme islam in the west
April 09, 2010, 02:07:18 PM
Wise words. Though I can't help feel angry about what is happening. I feel like I was born at the wrong time, and wish I was around before Christianity came out of the desert and into europe. And now the same is happening with Islam and it's spreading everywhere in the name of "peace".

I hear many people say this when they observe the many problems and the confusion the modern world is facing. "I should have been born in another time."

It struck me just now that now could be the perfect time for us to live as we have a purpose. Anti-social critics and de-/re-constructionist philosophers have no purpose in a healthy time. I think you were born in the perfect time as this time needs you.

Yes!

"I wish none of this had ever happened."

"So do I, " said Gandalf "And so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

-Gandalf, from The Fellowship of the Ring, chapter II: The Shadow of the Past, by J.R.R. Tolkien

Epic wisdom!

Hehe beat me to it...a simple saying but one which sums up our struggle as living beings.

Re: The death of extreme islam in the west
April 11, 2010, 08:24:35 PM
It struck me just now that now could be the perfect time for us to live as we have a purpose. Anti-social critics and de-/re-constructionist philosophers have no purpose in a healthy time. I think you were born in the perfect time as this time needs you.

We are fortunate to have such a challenging struggle!