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The state of being on the fence

The state of being on the fence
May 07, 2010, 07:50:29 PM
It's this strange purgatory really, and on the other hand an assault on the very ideas that have shaped my existence up until this point. A purgatory because I am utterly confused about how to lead a life of virtue and ascertain a certain "higher" level of existence, bound by the apathy that results from excessive and cyclical questioning of one's own purpose on this earth. And an assault because I am well aware that cognitive dissonance is rearing its much needed head into my fruitless existence and making me feel like a moron for not doing anything of use.

Now, I don't say this as a fatalist, but rather as somebody who has on one hand questioned the world around him, been disgusted with its sorry state for years, but on the whole become accustomed to fatalist attitudes. It's hypocritical to put it frankly, that I don't act on some of the beliefs and that in and of itself may make me just as bad as some of the people I have criticized, but on the other hand I wish to work out a healthy, productive regimen for myself. It's what feels like the college student's equivalent of mid-life crisis. Student-crisis, I suppose you could call it. Or youth-crisis. Whichever.

The picture I am trying to paint is one of an individual who has had ANUS and its respective philosophies and mannerisms on the horizon, but initially as nothing more than the incoherent, pseudo-pretentious ramblings of an elaborate internet troll, intent on luring as many pseudo-pretentious individuals who would "fall prey" and ultimately fight for a cause that's not there. I will save the life story and just say that my introduction to metal started after a chance encounter with an unlikely friend who exposed me to Master of Puppets and from there, my curiosity grew to the reaches of internet metal communities, where I would eventually come to "understand" metal and the philosophies behind subjectivity, taste, etc. I had many bouts of dissonance as my ideas of what music was supposed to be like were challenged. But at the end of each one, I still believed the "different strokes for different folks" mentality. It seemed virtuous, liberal and honorable among other amiable qualities and values. But, as ANUS was becoming a recurrent theme of discussion on my internet community of choice, I naturally couldn't help but try to understand it. After all, when somebody says something so many times, you're bound to start believing in its viability as a valid outlook.

And so, skip forwards to now where that individual has spent many nights reading the articles, lurking the boards, etc. It's already been many months that I have began to understand the objectivity of art and of the many ideas that surround this controversial site. I suppose I could simply ask towards navigation. I don't take pride in not being as resourceful as I might be, but I found the site very overwhelming. There are so many ideas spread around here that it ultimately becomes a chore to go through. So I was hoping that somebody with a penchant for helping a brother out could set me straight on where to start and where to go from there. As well, some of the questions looming over my head remain unanswered and keep me glued to this senseless, apathetic state:

-How does one become more adept at understanding the inconsistencies around himself? I say this in light of the fact that had I not read ANUS material, my mindset would be unchanged to this day. But now that I read about the ways in which crowds and governments are in place to manipulate the individual, it dawns on me that I still don't understand this in depth. I'm inclined to believe that we're sheep, but when I desire to try to convey the validity of some of these topics to others, I find myself unable to give the whole picture, which in itself renders me unable to express what now seems obvious in a sense. And it becomes a nuisance that I can't explain something that I seem to believe in and understand. I wish I could explain this point better without coming off as entirely clueless, but this is the situation.

-The next points stem from the previous in that it deals with how do I do my part? First of all, is the understanding of the previously mentioned concepts, yes. But more in specific is understanding the practical methods in which I could apply that knowledge. I noticed a thread by Conservationist about the ethical approach to life and it got to thinking about how I carry myself as an individual. As well, how do I treat others? I remember a thread somewhere here that consisted of a member talking down to an American Idol fan who didn't "understand" Beethoven, and thus was treated with contempt. However, some of the other users had a consensus in which a medium between contempt and helpfulness was established, but not concrete to me. In that, my question of how do I treat others still stands. I find that many students I meet my own age have little motivation or aspiration to truly learn and understand their world. Like most, they are content with their unchallenged lives, their sole existence watching Lost religiously, binge drinking and getting stoned to escape the dull state of existence. I am personally not the most enthusiastic and outgoing myself, but perhaps I could "convert" others to a more positive approach. On the other hand there is the question of "do I 'convert' others?" or do I simply try to pander to their shallow sensibilities? Then there is the question of, what's morally or ethically right? Are morals and ethics so absolute or will whatever means I approach others with not matter? I am leaning towards it seriously mattering, just it being a question of committal: do I challenge the beliefs of those who are so content in the world they want to believe exists? The entirely subjective, trivial world of inconsequential and symbolic interactions with the faceless corporations and institutions in our society?

I apologize for the rambling, but I'm afraid it's the best I could come up with in my confused state. In fact, I feel like I may have come off as possibly more hypocritical than I established myself as in that I claim to side with much of what ANUS says, but being utterly unable to explain and thus consider myself as an advocate of the ideas here. In a sense, I feel like I haven't fully transcended and gone above my sheepish state of old and still remain a puppet of the crowd. It's as if the strings which control me are invisible, but my perception of there  being some force at the forefront of my consciousness, and my physical body remaining in compliance with the strings and oblivious to the true state of the puppet master that wields them.

Re: The state of being on the fence
May 07, 2010, 09:09:49 PM
Quote
But, as ANUS was becoming a recurrent theme of discussion on my internet community of choice, I naturally couldn't help but try to understand it.
What community are you from?

Re: The state of being on the fence
May 07, 2010, 09:22:07 PM
Quote
But, as ANUS was becoming a recurrent theme of discussion on my internet community of choice, I naturally couldn't help but try to understand it.
What community are you from?

The Ultimate Guitar metal forum community. A place where the slightest mention of "hipster" or "objective" deems you as either a troll or a sheep who follows ANUS principles like its part of some unquestioned dogma.

Re: The state of being on the fence
May 07, 2010, 09:40:29 PM
The Ultimate Guitar metal forum community. A place where the slightest mention of "hipster" or "objective" deems you as either a troll or a sheep who follows ANUS principles like its part of some unquestioned dogma.

Interesting thing about the sheepishness. Do you find you worry about breaking yourself from sheepishly following one ideology (like the thought prominent on UG and in pop culture) just to end up sheepishly following another? (thoughts commonly expressed on this forum).

Trauco

Re: The state of being on the fence
May 07, 2010, 10:16:02 PM
As someone who, at one point of his life was at exactly the same predicament you are in, I think you may find my advice to be of some use.

First of all, unless you want to download some mp3s, forget about this forum. 90% of all human opinions are crap, and all forums are crap, this being no exception. This board is not going to enlighten you. On the contrary, is going to confuse you even more.

The same can be said of all message boards. They are not for education. Books are. Message boards are mere pastime.

This is what you need to interiorize:

                      http://www.anus.com/zine/philosophy/

                      http://www.anus.com/zine/philosophy/resources/

                     Also: http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/prozak/the_first_lecture/

Those three links are *all* that you could ever need from this site. From then on, you're on your own. And I mean that literally, forget about trying to improve worldly things in the meantime. No man with a confused soul has ever straightened anything outside of him.

On the contrary, appreciate solitude and philosophy. The list on the second link above is a nice startup, but I can also recommend works by Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Epictetus. Focus on ethics first, specially the works of the ancients. Travel a litle bit. And be lonely, at least for a couple of months. As Goethe said, intelligence is nurtured in solitude, while character is in the turmoil of the world. First worry about the former, then you can be ready for the latter. This is no special treatment or luxury you will be giving to yourself. The reason you can't articulate the ideas of this site is because you haven't interiorized them properly within you, and that will take some time. Be patient and calm. Take your time, you're not going to master them overnight.

The world is an awful place, I agree, but this is not something that could be told of modernity alone... humanity has always lived in error, jackasses have always been in the majority, there's confusion everywhere you look, and life has always been bitter struggle. Despite it, be always calm: you're not living in an age that is any worse than all the others. But keep in mind that virtue and truth have always managed to reappear; that despite perpetual error humanity has managed to reach great heights, and that all of the horror, frustration and suffering that pervades the world has a redeeming principle to it: it makes one tougher. As a proof for it, see the myth of Hyperborea dealing with the origin of the european peoples. They are a byproduct of suffering. So don't run away from horror, but face it. Yet be properly prepared for it.

BTW, I bothered to take the time to write this post because your rant was so very well put that I thought it wouldn't be a bad idea since this seems like an intelligent man. Hope that flatter ya.

Re: The state of being on the fence
May 07, 2010, 10:17:29 PM
^Thanks for the understanding and the links.

Interesting thing about the sheepishness. Do you find you worry about breaking yourself from sheepishly following one ideology (like the thought prominent on UG and in pop culture) just to end up sheepishly following another? (thoughts commonly expressed on this forum).

I think those sorts of fears could be applied to any given person. We naturally want to pave a way that is unequivocally ours.

It's not a far stretch to believe on an intuitive level that much of what's on ANUS is true. However, I often find myself thirsting for proof. One case out of many being the infamous "hipster" card thrown out at various bands. It was only roughly 3 months ago that the music of Isole and Blut aus Nord "graced" my ears and many years ago that I grew to love Pink Frothy AIDS. While on an intuitive level, I do feel like these bands play on some surface aesthetic, I don't understand how metalheads listen to them for status. I don't know if I'm an exception to the rule, but when I enjoyed those bands it wasn't because I felt "kvlter" or "smarter" than others. I didn't care. The music spoke to me on an emotional level. At the least, I believed that it was simply my interaction with the music and nothing to do with social gain. On the other hand, I've found those bands to be boring and unable to stand the test of time. Would an ANUSite perhaps corner me into somehow admitting that I was listening for social status and covering it up with what I genuinely believed was the truth? Not that I don't necessarily believe in the possibility of that explanation, but it's more of a guilt trip in context of "seeing past" the surface aesthetic of those bands. And then, with Isole and BaN I can't seem to quite put into words why their music is "hipster" or just generally drab. I can see symbols of emotion abundant in their works, but no obvious mark of ignoring the fundamental atmosphere of their historical counterparts.

Re: The state of being on the fence
May 07, 2010, 10:24:37 PM
Quote
But, as ANUS was becoming a recurrent theme of discussion on my internet community of choice, I naturally couldn't help but try to understand it.
What community are you from?

The Ultimate Guitar metal forum community. A place where the slightest mention of "hipster" or "objective" deems you as either a troll or a sheep who follows ANUS principles like its part of some unquestioned dogma.
Hey, I post on that site.  In that case, welcome friend.  I suggest you speak with Conservationist, he's very good at giving advice and is one of the older members on this forum.

Re: The state of being on the fence
May 07, 2010, 11:12:21 PM
I don't know if I'm an exception to the rule, but when I enjoyed those bands it wasn't because I felt "kvlter" or "smarter" than others. I didn't care. The music spoke to me on an emotional level. At the least, I believed that it was simply my interaction with the music and nothing to do with social gain. On the other hand, I've found those bands to be boring and unable to stand the test of time. Would an ANUSite perhaps corner me into somehow admitting that I was listening for social status and covering it up with what I genuinely believed was the truth? Not that I don't necessarily believe in the possibility of tpahat explanation, but it's more of a guilt trip in context of "seeing st" the surface aesthetic of those bands. And then, with Isole and BaN I can't seem to quite put into words why their music is "hipster" or just generally drab.

I don't think music makes you smarter or more cultured. I do however believe that it is catalytic in regards to the motivation that's required in accessing those "transforming" capabilities; I would argue that your emotional stimulus in response to BaN is just that.

BaN may not pass the ANUS.com bullshit detector, but it certainly has for others in the past. Specifically before the hipster invasion started. I think Nokturnal Mortum is a better example actually. There's divided opinions about these guys all across the board, with ANUS being no exception. Back in the day, there was silence, and now the discussions regarding NM are very critical but non-confrontational, opposed to the "Krallice: Penis-Eating Indie, not Black Metal" thread. This should be obvious because NM has lightyears more credibility than Krallice will ever.

However, the furious "Nechrist" which nearly tops everything Emperor did in synth-drenched, vitriolic and bombastic assault, totally in-your-face, totally sharp compositions, got my interest again in big time. Not to mention that they could inject the real Slavonic folk parts in that mess in such a convincing way. Whoa.

Apparently someone called that statement a "convincing troll," but whatever it is I think that description is accurate of the "NeChrist" album. Keep in mind, not all people on this board agree with that above quoted statement, coming from a moderator/staff member or not.

In a parallel example, I also used to listen to Nokturnal Mortum constantly, with "NeChrist" being the most listened to of the discography. The music spoke to the desire inside to celebrate my eastern heritage and altered my perceptions about socio-political matters without turning me into a bigot, regardless of what their intention was behind the album.

These days, I rarely listen to Nokturnal Mortum, and I'm not sure as to why. I can barely stomach a full song without stopping the CD and thinking "Meh, I'm just not in the mood for this." People change.
"I hung there on a cross as you are hanging, and I lived, thanks to circumstances and a stamina peculiar to barbarians. But you civilised men are soft; your lives are not nailed to your spines as are ours. Your fortitude consists mainly in inflicting torment, not in enduring it. You will be dead before sundown." - REH

Re: The state of being on the fence
May 07, 2010, 11:24:06 PM
The Ultimate Guitar metal forum community. A place where the slightest mention of "hipster" or "objective" deems you as either a troll or a sheep who follows ANUS principles like its part of some unquestioned dogma.

I am also fond of UG, but there's truth to what you say. Early ANUS trollish behavior there burned a few bridges, and people get freaked out by the "not all metal is automatically OK" attitude.

Personally, I am somewhat fascinated by "close" decisions, e.g. being on the fence. Sometimes I realize that emotion exists to avoid such lockups.

Re: The state of being on the fence
May 08, 2010, 08:05:08 PM
Early ANUS trollish behavior there burned a few bridges, and people get freaked out by the "not all metal is automatically OK" attitude.

100% accurate. However, that early ANUS-style behavior also policed a lot of would-be scene-fags out of any interest in the genres of Black and Death Metal. The stamina expressed in the late 90's and early 2000's isn't really seen so much today, as a much more egalitarian and humanistic approach to "your fellow metalhead" is the trend as of late.

I think there is a correlation with this phenomenon and the instance of the "musical" metalcore bands gaining fame, like Lamb of God (AIDS), Shadows Fall (AIDS), new Behemoth (Super-AIDS). Somewhere along the lines, their Metally-handicapped fans were given a special-olympics style sense of accomplishment, spawning faux-integrity.

So how can we make the patrons of these rock/pop-based genres and bands of Metal listen to reason? Somehow the crusade against Dimmu Borgir was able to spawn tons of Hessians, but the few remaining voices that stand in favor of actual metal either fall upon deaf ears or lack the numbers and passion we once had to achieve this goal.

The result is like legalizing illegal immigration, and the music has suffered because of it.

Though a burst of purity has its downfalls as well. There's tons of barely-passable bands that would ascend, bringing with them a juvenile rehashment of nothing new and an ungoldy level of ignorance that straddles institutionalization. For concrete evidence, check out the Narrow Squirting Bowel Movement scene. When I was younger, I loved Absurd because their music was a vehicle of spiritual and social freedom and maybe empowerment. When N5BM was absorbed (though aborted would be a better verb) into the "Waat Paarr!" movement, those ideas expressed by Darkthrone, Burzum, Graveland and Absurd were shot to complete shit.

We will lose either way metal decides to go, but then again dealing with maladaptive behaviors is the role of any adult figure. I think the modern ANUS.com mentality is ideal in holding your temple within the chaotic world of infantile musical outputs. Everyone is always going to have an agenda, be it musically, ideologically or aesthetically. So to conclude with a response to the first point, I don't think it's that bad to at least allow that ugly-side of elitism to be reserved and tempered with advanced interpersonal communication skills. This is how we can make them listen to reason.

Let us site an Anus.com blog response in defense of ethonationalism:
Quote
The problem here is that you divide the world into binary: racist or anti-racism.

There's shades of grey. People who are nationalists, for example, are not racist -- but they do believe that the best organization of a society is by culture, values and heritage.

One racial group, one nation.

The left's insistence on seeing this racist/not-racist dichotomy has caused more racial resentment than anything else. Racial groups separated do not scorn each other; thrown together, they compete and hate each other. That's why 200 years of American racial politics has not changed the essentials of the situation.

The future of humanity is in ethnonationalism, and that's why black metal spotted it while the white liberal establishment is still stuck in the 1960s. With a strong organic underpinning like culture and its genetic encoding in ethnicity, we can have societies that do not depend on all-powerful governments and economics to lead. Instead we have shared values in detail, and no substantial inequality of ability.

There are definitely people I do categorize as "racist," and I shy away from them because I think it's a mental dysfunction. Racism to me means wanting another race in a lower place so you can use them as cheap labor, or abuse them. That's broken logic, but it's on par with the notion that we can have a diverse society and still have direction.

If you want globalism and the New World Order, keep insisting that some humans are "non-racist" and everyone else is "racist." You'll quickly give government the mandate it needs for moral rule, and destroy culture so that there's nothing for us but television, materialism and The Nanny State. -
"I hung there on a cross as you are hanging, and I lived, thanks to circumstances and a stamina peculiar to barbarians. But you civilised men are soft; your lives are not nailed to your spines as are ours. Your fortitude consists mainly in inflicting torment, not in enduring it. You will be dead before sundown." - REH

Re: The state of being on the fence
September 09, 2010, 12:16:41 PM
Would an ANUSite perhaps corner me into somehow admitting that I was listening for social status and covering it up with what I genuinely believed was the truth?

You were obviously listening to them for social status, as evidenced by your desperate cries for approval among the "elite" for your newfound kvlt taste. The only thing you ever genuinely liked was probably Nickelback's "How You Remind Me" when you were 12. Your posts can be basically translated to "I'm such a poor lost lonely sheepie, please tell me what exactly to believe in".

Re: The state of being on the fence
September 10, 2010, 10:12:24 AM
Translated? He said that openly and made no apologies for it.
Lettin' nillas know.

I hope our aryan overlords will emerge form their l secret base below antartica and wipe all of those under 500 of IQ And don't have the ability to mindtravel into the Xerces Galaxy.

Re: The state of being on the fence
September 10, 2010, 01:01:34 PM
Would an ANUSite perhaps corner me into somehow admitting that I was listening for social status and covering it up with what I genuinely believed was the truth?

You were obviously listening to them for social status, as evidenced by your desperate cries for approval among the "elite" for your newfound kvlt taste. The only thing you ever genuinely liked was probably Nickelback's "How You Remind Me" when you were 12. Your posts can be basically translated to "I'm such a poor lost lonely sheepie, please tell me what exactly to believe in".

Generally I've found that most people who accuse you of following an ideology sheepishly are really trying to say, "Don't follow that ideology sheepishly, follow MY ideology sheepishly!" Your next-door neighbor, the 35 year old married man raising two kids in Germany, and the cosmic dust that formed you could care less about whether your decision for associating yourself with an idea, promoting that idea, or even taking action based on that idea was done for sheepish or not sheepish reasons, so I don't see the importance of irrefutably proving that your decisions to do any of those things were authentic, genuine, and altogether self-originating. Besides, if people are going to accuse you of being sheep as a cop-out to avoid the obvious fact that what they're really mad about is that you don't agree with them, how are you ever going to please them? Either by (pretending) not to follow any ideology, or (pretending... or legitimately) devoting yourself to that person's ideology, and switching faces so much to please everyone, or attempting to decry every ideology as false because you find the moniker "sheep" truly insulting seems very silly to me. But, eh, what do I know eh? I suppose these things are actually really important somewhere, like in an after-life or something.
Classicism in art, royalism in politics, Catholicism in religion

Re: The state of being on the fence
September 11, 2010, 02:29:43 AM
I'm guessing there is a INTJ and to lesser extent, INTP local majority because it is these who are wired to or have the aptitude to apply some inner detachment to the emotional reactions side and move it into the conscious background while keeping the rational/logical in the foreground. I have also read somewhere that the INT(x) types tend toward an above average general intelligence, broadly meaning they're able to reach better conclusions more frequently than the majority of people around them.
”The Revolution ends by devouring its own children” – Jacques Mallet du Pan, 1793

Re: The state of being on the fence
September 11, 2010, 05:13:10 AM
I'm guessing there is a INTJ and to lesser extent, INTP local majority because it is these who are wired to or have the aptitude to apply some inner detachment to the emotional reactions side and move it into the conscious background while keeping the rational/logical in the foreground. I have also read somewhere that the INT(x) types tend toward an above average general intelligence, broadly meaning they're able to reach better conclusions more frequently than the majority of people around them.

It seems like most people want metal to be a social tool, or to be used for entertainment purposes. They love to give their opinions on things, but are horrified at the thought of actually having to inwardly reflect, or consider things from a perspective of pure ideas and structure, rather than simply how things appear to the senses. The prominence of Judging is probably quite confronting for many, who see it as "close-mindedness", apparently even perceiving the strong focus on goals as being sheepish (oh, teh irony).

I think this site also has a significant F aspect, tending to focus more on art and social science than on the cold rationality of science and math (of course, certain members are clearly much more T). Very Nietzschean in all aspects.