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Distrust of antidepressants

Distrust of antidepressants
May 19, 2010, 05:08:01 PM
Basic theory:

If you are depressed, something is depressing you. Only in very rare cases is it a biological dysfunction, in which case, it is likely paired with others.

Problem with antidepressants:

* I don't think they work. Many suicides used them prior to their deaths; which this doesn't suggest a casual connection like "antidepressants cause suicide," it suggests a broken causality in the idea that antidepressants stop depression.
* Withdrawal is brutal. Hardcore pot users will know what I'm talking about (over 2g chronic a day). You can't boost your serotonin process without paying like a beast when it goes. Headaches, rage and laziness follow.
* Obviously, habit-forming and expensive and a tether.

I'm just developing these thoughts, but wanted to see what you others had seen of this.

Re: Distrust of antidepressants
May 19, 2010, 05:33:26 PM
A careful review of the literature reveals that antidepressant medications only seem to have positive effects in extremely severe cases (the kind of debilitating, ongoing depressive episodes that would typically result in hospitalization).  More broadly, I think we're beginning to see a revolt against the (grossly inaccurate) "neurochemical" concept of mental illness and returning to a behavioral model (once thought archaic) where psychological disorders are understood to be largely a behavioral feedback loop of sorts.  Psychologically disordered behavior probably has some biochemical or neurostructural basis, but mostly, disordered thinking and behaviors are habits of mind, and, like any habit, can be changed through conscious effort.

Re: Distrust of antidepressants
May 19, 2010, 06:24:54 PM
Just last month a relative commit suicide. He was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis about 4 years prior, which he continued his drunken/doped up lifestyle for two years with the disease until it grew into a debilitating state as he was losing coordination and balance and within the last few months of his life was having trouble coping with it, as it gotten worse... He eventually turned to anti-depressants which altered his moods drastically from day to day.

His doctors threw every kind of medication at him they could, he was on supplemental income as well as state funded insurance, could it be these doctors were really just pharmaceutical salesman? His condition never got any better, but they were always ensuring him that the bi-weekly appointments with neurologists and the $3,000 injections were keeping him alive. I am not trying to make a case for him, as he was a waste his entire 38 years of life, no family.. never had a real job, lived at home with his mother, and was a huge asshole.. up to the day the hung himself.

I feel anti-depressants are in place to let people cope with life's difficulties in the most passive form... pop a couple of pills and everything will be alright, or so they tell you. You feel too chemically good now to worry about the future..  In a world where everyone blindly denies reality in favor of their own hedonistic ways, this is how problems are handled. Let them go for as long as possible, as long as you feel good at the moment. Most of the people I know who have taken them, abuse them to get stoned on.. Just like any other temporal drug.. the problem is never solved. It will keep chasing you, and eventually catch up.. like it did my uncle.

Re: Distrust of antidepressants
May 19, 2010, 08:30:12 PM
From my experience with people around me who have taken them:

They don't work. They numb you ability to feel pain, so you stop fighting against the actual root of your inner suffering. You become addicted to them both physically (as the OP explained) and emotionally.

Re: Distrust of antidepressants
May 19, 2010, 09:24:13 PM
All I have to add to this is that it's simply brilliant business for the pharmaceutical companies as much as nicotine replacement therapies are, even though the most basic and widespread studies show that quitting cigarettes 'cold turkey' is the most effective way to break free from addiction.

Re: Distrust of antidepressants
May 20, 2010, 02:26:16 AM
I don't know about treating sadness but it may work for low attention span people like add. (ritalin)

Thrashymachus

Re: Distrust of antidepressants
May 20, 2010, 02:33:34 AM
Antidepressants work by limiting the brain so we can't reason our way into mental problems. The way I see it, it's perfectly normal for a person to be unhappy in this world. If we could all see the world truly and all its sadness, who wouldn't be depressed? The brain puts normal limitations on itself to prevent that, and antidepressants go further. I'd just rather take something that opens my mind (psychadelics) than closes it to cure that depression.

Re: Distrust of antidepressants
May 20, 2010, 03:03:11 AM
Apart from behavioral adjustments necessary to cope with depression, I recommend frequent and prolonged exposure to sun and heavy dosage of Vitamin D3 - 5.000 to 10.000 UI daily. Even upwards of 20.000.

Re: Distrust of antidepressants
May 20, 2010, 11:20:45 AM
Anti depressants are a surrogate, and not the good kind either.

Nowadays, in this modern age, we have been (in evolutionary terms) taken from one environment, that environment that surrounds us, and thrust into an alien, mechanical environment situation in a really short time - the body can't cope, biological evolutionary inertia. What pisses me off is that just because some mechanized labour makes more money, so it should apply to everyone to increase the quantity of consumerism.

Depression is majorly an environmental thing, the psychologists and other fucktards who prescribe these little lies in a bottle don't care about the surrounding filth and degeneracy, they are concerned with people 'getting back to work', not with fulfillment nor quality of experience in everyday life and for as long as we treat people as items on a check list depression will continue to sky rocket. We are social creatures and need a form of communal culture with people we can TRUST. Looking around my town, there is perhaps one or two people that I can fully trust, everyone else are selfish, dumb and oblivious only interested in themselves, and are depressed although they won't admit it - they numb it with 'entertainment' because their concept of boredom is really existential depression.


Re: Distrust of antidepressants
May 20, 2010, 04:09:00 PM
Depression is majorly an environmental thing, the psychologists and other fucktards who prescribe these little lies in a bottle don't care about the surrounding filth and degeneracy, they are concerned with people 'getting back to work', not with fulfillment nor quality of experience in everyday life...
So true. Psychologists are just another prop under the bloated, corrupt global economy. They all push Creationism, Individualism, Capitalism, Humanism etc. All the things that keep the slave machine rolling.

Studies suggest that the popular drugs are no more effective than a placebo. In fact, they may be worse: http://www.newsweek.com/id/232781

Re: Distrust of antidepressants
May 20, 2010, 04:45:14 PM
here's another proud anti-psychiatry crusader:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc_wjp262RY

Re: Distrust of antidepressants
May 20, 2010, 04:52:26 PM
Depression is majorly an environmental thing, the psychologists and other fucktards who prescribe these little lies in a bottle don't care about the surrounding filth and degeneracy, they are concerned with people 'getting back to work', not with fulfillment nor quality of experience in everyday life...
So true. Psychologists are just another prop under the bloated, corrupt global economy. They all push Creationism, Individualism, Capitalism, Humanism etc. All the things that keep the slave machine rolling.
I would argue against this. If anything, its some form of humanistic big bang theory.

Re: Distrust of antidepressants
May 20, 2010, 09:27:12 PM
Quote from: Dylar
A careful review of the literature reveals that antidepressant medications only seem to have positive effects in extremely severe cases (the kind of debilitating, ongoing depressive episodes that would typically result in hospitalization).
This is probably true.
Quote
More broadly, I think we're beginning to see a revolt against the (grossly inaccurate) "neurochemical" concept of mental illness and returning to a behavioral model (once thought archaic) where psychological disorders are understood to be largely a behavioral feedback loop of sorts.  Psychologically disordered behavior probably has some biochemical or neurostructural basis, but mostly, disordered thinking and behaviors are habits of mind, and, like any habit, can be changed through conscious effort.
What would a behavioral explanation for schizophrenia be?

Quote from: Thrashymachus
Antidepressants work by limiting the brain so we can't reason our way into mental problems.
What the ever loving fuck are you talking about?  That isn't even a remotely accurate explanation of how anti-depressants work.
Quote
The way I see it, it's perfectly normal for a person to be unhappy in this world. If we could all see the world truly and all its sadness, who wouldn't be depressed?
You are confusing "sadness" with Major Depressive Disorder.  They are very different things.
Quote
The brain puts normal limitations on itself to prevent that, and antidepressants go further. I'd just rather take something that opens my mind (psychadelics) than closes it to cure that depression.
I like psychedelics, too.  How is using them to escape reality better than using anti-depressants?

Quote from: Robert Martin
the psychologists and other fucktards who prescribe these little lies in a bottle don't care about the surrounding filth and degeneracy, they are concerned with people 'getting back to work', not with fulfillment nor quality of experience in everyday life
You know this how?  Have you ever even met a psychologist?  (By the way, I'm not sure if you simply misspoke, but psychologists cannot even prescribe drugs, only psychiatrists can.)

Re: Distrust of antidepressants
May 20, 2010, 11:52:58 PM
High school sucked. I was awfully depressed for most of it, and eventually went to a psychologist. I refused to take medication though. I gradually worked through my shit and feel quite fine overall now. I know some people who had problems, took meds (or self-medicated), and still have problems. I think "medicating" problems rather than "meditating" on them cheats people out of self-knowledge. So they keep repeating the same mental errors that caused problems before. But contemporary American culture places such a premium on boosting everyone's self-esteem that if anybody feels bad, it's a crime that must be immediately remedied and not a learning experience . For Satan's sake, let people be sad once in a while.

A careful review of the literature reveals that antidepressant medications only seem to have positive effects in extremely severe cases (the kind of debilitating, ongoing depressive episodes that would typically result in hospitalization).

I talked to one psychologist who also said that studies reveal "cognitive-behavioral therapy" (jargon for learning about what makes you depressed) is as effective or more effective than drugs except in extreme cases.

Depression is majorly an environmental thing, the psychologists and other fucktards who prescribe these little lies in a bottle don't care about the surrounding filth and degeneracy, they are concerned with people 'getting back to work', not with fulfillment nor quality of experience in everyday life and for as long as we treat people as items on a check list depression will continue to sky rocket.

Depression treatments aim to make people "functional," but generally to them "functional" means being a compliant company worker and participating in all the same social activities everone else does. Otherwise, they may realize that what they were doing is in fact, just as they feared, pointless and depressing. That could have been a wake-up call to consider their values. I've also noticed that many great men experienced periods of depression, but often they were spurred on afterwards to create their greatest works. (Beethoven, off the top of my head.) I've long been concerned that our desire to wipe away every little mental quirk or bit of unhappiness will destroy our ability to create.

Re: Distrust of antidepressants
May 21, 2010, 12:21:26 AM
Forgot to address the original post:

Quote from: Conservationist
* I don't think they work. Many suicides used them prior to their deaths; which this doesn't suggest a casual connection like "antidepressants cause suicide," it suggests a broken causality in the idea that antidepressants stop depression.
Antidepressants take several weeks before the benefitial effects of the drug can develope.  However, in the early phases of their use (especially SSRIs), they can induce and/or increase anxiety.  You'll notice that the suicides related to antidepressants are almost exclusively adolescents.  Depression + Anxiety - Fully Formed Frontal Lobes = Suicide

Quote
* Withdrawal is brutal. Hardcore pot users will know what I'm talking about (over 2g chronic a day). You can't boost your serotonin process without paying like a beast when it goes. Headaches, rage and laziness follow.
I wouldn't describe the withdrawal as brutal.  Not to mention the fact that one can taper off the drug.  Also, cannabis (which I used hardcore in high school, and yes the first week or so after stopping sucked) effects an entirely different system than antidepressants.  So, I'm not sure why you're comparing the two.

Quote
* Obviously, habit-forming and expensive and a tether.
Where did you get the notion that antidepressants are habit forming?
Only the name brands are expensive.
All medications are a tether.