Are we really wrecking the planet?

[indjaseemun]

I've discussed on the internet with mostly christian "right wing" individuals, neo-libera/neo-conservatives (whatever the hell those things actually are) from Brazil and they all, mostly based on the Bible I guess, favor indiscriminate expansion of humanity and of population. I couldn't get them to believe that it's OK to do some kind of population planning.

Do you think we're really commiting "ecocide", destroying our planet, or is it too strong and too big for us to do that? OR, conditions of life will remain somewhat normal with population increase but we will lose a lot of natural land and this upsets environmentalists? OR, will population stop growing and then decrease?

[cet30048]

This.

The basic principle for any argument I'd of come up with... we abuse our planet daily, by raping the natural resources given. We denude forestry in favor of shopping malls and housing plans.. We are slowly turning Earth into a soulless, concrete/asphalt scab...

[istaros]

In the long term? No. We are but one species and the planet will, in time, recover even from our worst efforts. But why would we choose to live in the worst possible state?

[Sammaellofi]

Even if global warming isn't happening, I think we are creating a situation that will be very unpleasent to live in. 

Let's put it this way.  We might not have proof that we are ruining the planet, but even if we did, we wouldn't stop what we are doing.  Our expansion is addiction. 

I would be ok with constant expansion if there were any meaning behind it, though.

[Succuboso666]

Well we are wrecking the planet in various ways but the global warming epidemic..... that's not our fault.  Has anyone heard anything about chemtrails?  The government or military is spraying chemicals into the atmosphere for whatever reason and that's what's destroying the ozone.  I'm not sure of the reasons why they're doing it (I'm sure there are many) but I know they EPA has a plan of taxing American's for things like not recycling or using aresole spays etc...  This won't be a small tax either like $500 a month.

[nothingnowhere]

Well we are wrecking the planet in various ways but the global warming epidemic..... that's not our fault.  Has anyone heard anything about chemtrails?  The government or military is spraying chemicals into the atmosphere for whatever reason and that's what's destroying the ozone.  I'm not sure of the reasons why they're doing it (I'm sure there are many) but I know they EPA has a plan of taxing American's for things like not recycling or using aresole spays etc...  This won't be a small tax either like $500 a month.

Thanks for the laugh.


CHEMIKALLZZZ!!!!!

[p4er57809e4587o96e4j5]

Chemtrails will soon be used to blanket cities in nanoparticle "vaccines" that soak through the skin, creating the perfect slave zombies for the global elite!


CHEMIKALLZZZ!!!!!

[Scipio]

I sometimes wonder if Mars or Venus at some time had sentient beings similar to us(I mean in capability to manipulate their environment) that wrecked their planets and died/left to wreck another.  I could see the Earth entering a feedback loop resulting from massive devegetation and output of carbon dioxide and other compounds that could create either situation.  My knowledge of chemistry and physics isn't developed enough to do more than vague speculation, however. 

[nothingnowhere]

I sometimes wonder if Mars or Venus at some time had sentient beings similar to us(I mean in capability to manipulate their environment) that wrecked their planets and died/left to wreck another.  I could see the Earth entering a feedback loop resulting from massive devegetation and output of carbon dioxide and other compounds that could create either situation.  My knowledge of chemistry and physics isn't developed enough to do more than vague speculation, however. 

It seems quite impossible to me that human activity could destroy all life (including micro-life, not just what we consider "life"). Life on Earth has faced mass extinctions and climate change before, and it will likely continue to until the sun swallows it.

 The temperatures of both Mars and Venus make complex life impossible.

[Scipio]

I sometimes wonder if Mars or Venus at some time had sentient beings similar to us(I mean in capability to manipulate their environment) that wrecked their planets and died/left to wreck another.  I could see the Earth entering a feedback loop resulting from massive devegetation and output of carbon dioxide and other compounds that could create either situation.  My knowledge of chemistry and physics isn't developed enough to do more than vague speculation, however. 

It seems quite impossible to me that human activity could destroy all life (including micro-life, not just what we consider "life"). Life on Earth has faced mass extinctions and climate change before, and it will likely continue to until the sun swallows it.

 The temperatures of both Mars and Venus make complex life impossible.

It's highly unlikely, but not impossible.  I imagine it would take sustained i.e. centuries of exploitation on a multitude higher scale than what we see today, but humans not only have a gigantic population with which to exploit they also have ingenuity for exploiting resources dynamically without being burdened by much thought as to long-term consequences.  Irreversibly altering the planet's ecosystem doesn't seem entirely beyond reach as long humanity doesn't extinguish itself first.  And I didn't mean to imply that all life would be gone.  Micro-organisms may very well flourish within a Mars-like Earth by way of the planets internal heat.

The temperature of Mars and Venus may not support our form of life, but it seems absurd, in all the complexities of matter, that no variants exist.

[indjaseemun]

I sometimes wonder if Mars or Venus at some time had sentient beings similar to us(I mean in capability to manipulate their environment) that wrecked their planets and died/left to wreck another.  I could see the Earth entering a feedback loop resulting from massive devegetation and output of carbon dioxide and other compounds that could create either situation.  My knowledge of chemistry and physics isn't developed enough to do more than vague speculation, however. 

It seems quite impossible to me that human activity could destroy all life (including micro-life, not just what we consider "life"). Life on Earth has faced mass extinctions and climate change before, and it will likely continue to until the sun swallows it.

 The temperatures of both Mars and Venus make complex life impossible.

It's highly unlikely, but not impossible.  I imagine it would take sustained i.e. centuries of exploitation on a multitude higher scale than what we see today, but humans not only have a gigantic population with which to exploit they also have ingenuity for exploiting resources dynamically without being burdened by much thought as to long-term consequences.  Irreversibly altering the planet's ecosystem doesn't seem entirely beyond reach as long humanity doesn't extinguish itself first.  And I didn't mean to imply that all life would be gone.  Micro-organisms may very well flourish within a Mars-like Earth by way of the planets internal heat.

The temperature of Mars and Venus may not support our form of life, but it seems absurd, in all the complexities of matter, that no variants exist.

Yeah I believe that too. Lovecraft says it is extremely ingenuous to believe life on other plantes would resemble ours.

Maybe life on all other planets needs a bunch of empty planets on the solar system and only one planet with life.

[Conservationist]

Do you think we're really commiting "ecocide", destroying our planet, or is it too strong and too big for us to do that?

Ecocide occurs in degrees and rather slowly.

Have we exterminated species? Yes

Is there unpolluted seawater anywhere? No

What about ground water? Rarely, if any

How far do you need to go from a city to find wilderness? (Real wilderness, not "parks.") For most people, several hours

What about species with lowered numbers of animals, possibly below safe/healthy breeding? Whales, dolphins, cougars, foxes and many others

What about air pollution? Most US cities have pollution alerts, especially in summer

Add all this up and you see that we're slowly killing off (a) open spaces for animals to breed/frolic/live (b) species through slow decline (c) the natural resources (air, water, dirt) needed for healthy nature.

Most people think of ecocide as a sudden change, like on Friday life is OK, and Saturday is a nuclear wasteland. It's not that. It's that we trim away at the edges for too long and one day we wake up and realize that we've steadily lost many things we'd rather have.

Of course, most people (90%) do not care at all and cannot care; they lack the intelligence and character to do so. We need a fascist leader to force unpopular, unprofitable decisions upon the idiot masses, and to finally end the travesty of democracy.

Essential reading:

• http://www.garretthardinsociety.org/articles/art_tragedy_of_the_commons.html
• http://www.deepecology.org/mission.htm

[cet30048]

Do you think we're really commiting "ecocide", destroying our planet, or is it too strong and too big for us to do that?

Most people think of ecocide as a sudden change, like on Friday life is OK, and Saturday is a nuclear wasteland.

Wait, so you are telling me that I just changed all of my incandescent lighting to energy efficient CFL lighting for nothing?! According to the information on the packaging, I am being 'green' and helping to improve our planet by powering an entire SCHOOL with the lifetime of ONE bulbs energy saving... why I oughta!

The unseen future is rarely considered by most, as many chose the passive 'live in the moment' lifestyle... While this only pleases the present and immediately foreseeable future of events, the negative drawbacks of natural destruction which are always gradual decline, are only seen as an immediate impact and eventually dissipate into the mind.. a lot of people I've ever met reserve thinking passed a few weeks time into the future, anything after is like the death of time.. a very backwards way of 'progression', eh? It always grinds me to hear environmentalists rattle on about progression, yet the future is always capped by living in the moment.. and not making any movement.