I have to ask this: Tough philosophical moral question

[indjaseemun]

I have to ask this. How do the people on this forum cope with the chaos of the world, wich means any of us, our loved ones (parents, siblings, sons and daughters) can be killed at any moment or even worse, tortured for sadistic purposes of maniacs or bored people who decide to torture and kill for fun?

How to accept that terrible things can happen to valuable people, and worst, with innocent infants who had a long beaufitul life ahead? Sometimes I think how sad it would be if I died when I was younger, because I have a lot of stuff to experience. (I'm 19.)

It's tempting for me to believe in a force that makes the bad things happen because of incompetence or karma. Actually, I do believe this. I believe in karma from what you do, and also from what the ancestors did (the reality we have now is result of a lot of actions of the past, and a lot of those actions remain in memory, writing, pictures, etc.). But not ALL things follow the karma rule. Some things (that's what it seems like to me now) happens out of pure chaos. Or better yet, I do not believe in things happening for no reason. All things happen for a reason, just some of those things harm some humans extremely. Well, I think I just solved my own question. The world is one amoral thing and little children are going to die sometimes, and sometimes they will be tortured by maniacs, sometimes anally. Sometimes a guy can pick up your son (I don't have one, but I plan to), rape him anally, cum on his mouth, then kill him. That's the way it is

The question is how to cope with it. I think the best and most honest manner, the way that is most true to the reality we live in: Reality is multi-reality. That means, our reality is not the same as of the animals, of the plants, of the winds, or even of another person. But at the same time, it's the same reality. What is needed is for you to consider yourself what you are: A new person, a new life who never existed before, therefore you can only judge life by what happens in your life only. If I form a great family and die 80 years old with good financial condition then I love life, life is a great marvelous gift, and that will be my reality forever. Another human being, who forms a family and they all die in flames or some other tragedy due to bombing by the USA, will curse life, and they're both right, because their lifes are separate things, one was one's life, the other was the other's life, and they don't need to come to a consensus about life because it just wasn't made to work this way.

Your toughts?

[cet30048]

Accepting these events as an inevitability before they happen, as a part of the continuation of life. As well as living with as much purpose as possible, while being constructive amidst the demise of civilization and a decaying society.. all of these allow one to focus on what is most real, and reject what is unnecessary... and hopefully influence others to do the same.

[JewishPhysics]

I would say this presents a moral imperative on society to take precautions to stop these kinds of things from happening and forming a system of justice to 'eliminate' those elements from society.

How to cope with this fact of life?  I'd agree with cet that simply accepting it as inevitable would be a good start.  If you can't do that there are alternatives:
-you could abuse drugs
-you could distract yourself with the mundane and meaningless things in life
-you could pretend these things don't actually happen
-you could kill yourself

[indjaseemun]

I would say this presents a moral imperative on society to take precautions to stop these kinds of things from happening and forming a system of justice to 'eliminate' those elements from society.

How to cope with this fact of life?  I'd agree with cet that simply accepting it as inevitable would be a good start.  If you can't do that there are alternatives:
-you could abuse drugs
-you could distract yourself with the mundane and meaningless things in life
-you could pretend these things don't actually happen
-you could kill yourself

There is also the alternative I presented: You don't HAVE to accept tha these things will happen because to most people, they don't. So to those people, that's life, perfect. A dog that goes trough life eating good, having his fun, and dying of old age will never fear nothing. As for youself, if you're not gay, a penis being inserted in your anus is not part and never will be of your life. And you take that for granted. You know? I think the most sane this is to wait for the thing to happen and THEN accept it. Imagine if we were to dedicate time and energy to trying to think of all the tragedies that could happen, in order to be more realistical and accept them all?

[JewishPhysics]

You don't HAVE to accept tha these things will happen because to most people, they don't.

Yeah, that's called pretending they don't happen.  I wasn't murdered in The Holocaust, so I guess it didn't happen.

[indjaseemun]

You don't HAVE to accept tha these things will happen because to most people, they don't.

Yeah, that's called pretending they don't happen.  I wasn't murdered in The Holocaust, so I guess it didn't happen.

That's the point I tried to make. I never said pretend it doesn't happen. I accepted this facts LONG ago. They do happen. Thing is, are they gonna happen to you or me? The holocaust isn't gonna happen to you. It ended already. It was real, but we didn't go trought it. Same way some people in germany in ww2 died, some survived. These people who survived, death was not real to them. That's the point I was trying to make: Life is what happens to us. If you're not a homossexual, a penis being inserted into your anus is not part of your reality and never will be. ONLY IF you get raped.

So my theory is that life is different for all, and what happens in people's life is life to them. An insect will never know music. That doesn't mean music is not being played near them.

[JewishPhysics]

So what you're saying is that you remain apathetic about terrible things until they effect you directly?  I suppose that's what most people do anyway.  I would suggest that this is bad thing.  Looks like you've already made up your mind, though.

[istaros]

Imagine if we were to dedicate time and energy to trying to think of all the tragedies that could happen, in order to be more realistical and accept them all?

This is (part of) how societies enter a downward spiral - individuals being concerned only with their own realities. You have ingeniuosly outlined why individualism is destructive; the fact you've done so while trying to defend individualism makes it ingenuous as well.

Societies are groups of people organized under a common belief. In modern Western societies, that common belief is individualist humanism - that we are all important because we are all people, and that we should be allowed to do as we please, so long as our "what we please" doesn't interfere with anyone else's "what we please." This belief can only arise in a person if he is focused on his own reality to the exclusion of others', or if you want to speak of it in more enveloping terms, to the exclusion of the unifying reality.

The outcome, whether immediate or gradual, is disunity. In order for the "what we please" mentality to actualize, we need to modify it - as above(making exceptions for when our own desires infringe upon others'). Since we do not all want the exact same things, further modifications need to be made. In a goal-oriented society, the actions mentioned in the OP are outlawed because they are destructive; in a humanist society, they are outlawed because they create disunity. But in preventing such disunity, another type of disunity is created, in that our individual wants are compromised. Key to this distinction is that they are compromised not for a common goal but for OTHER PEOPLE. So in facilitating that mentality, you simultaneously destroy it. Thus cognitive dissonance.

TL,DR; disunity is disorder, and disorder leads to breakdown. So trying to dedicate time and energy towards a realistic vision of the world is hardly a waste of time. Accepting such realities does not solely lead to the ability to accept them mentally once they do occur. It also arms you against them - you take measures to prevent them, and when they occur anyway, you take measures to punish the offenders. Instead of wasting time dawdling, twiddling your thumbs while figuring out the best course of action with which to respond. It is war, and in war, strategy trumps all.

To tie this in to everything else this website and its parent website are based on, consider metal. Not many lyrics about puppies and romance. Quite a few about mutilation, rape, sacrifice, chaos, battle... You get the picture. Metal largely came about because society had reached a state in which such things were largely ignored. The way you're proposing they should be. Non-Western societies don't have an equivalent of metal because they don't need it; they face death and decay on a daily basis. We don't face them directly, but they still affect our lives, and without a guiding spirit to bring us through to an awareness of how to confront and even embrace such things, we become confused and useless. Metal emerged as a subconscious realization that we need just such a guiding spirit, and hopes to provide a starting point from which we may lead ourselves to new heights. Saying that we should stick our heads in the sand like ostriches is the most unmetal thing one can do. Even suicide takes more courage.

[indjaseemun]

Jew Bob: Kind of, but you and the guy above you are maybe missing some details in my thinking.

I believe everyone should accept those facts. But , imagine if everyday I tought of everything that might happen: I would never ride a bus or a car, or a plane because of accident's, I'd be afraid of desease, etc.

What I tried to say is that life is uncertain. And there is little you can do to avoid the unavoidable. You may go trought your whole whole life without one single disgrace happening to you and your family. As a matter of fact a lot of people do.

Things that will happen... haven't happened yet. We can prevent bad things of course, and apart from that, we can only live life in the present. In the end of your life you could tell what life was

A father who raises kids and maintains a family does not want them killed. He know that can happen. But a sane person would not think about his family's disgrace often: He would do his best and live each day thankfully. If something happens then you have to adjust.

My toughts on this have something to do with the chaos of reality... Life is unfair, and to accept that unfairness, you must accept also the blessings. If you go trought life without your family or you suffering disgraces, you have been blessed. Some other family may not be granted this, and they may curse life. A lot of sane people I know have a corageous attitude towards life: Do what is necessary and responsible, do not think A Lot about disgraces, for if they are to happen, tought will not stop them.

Anyway, I'm done trying to explain my toughts and feelings on this, it's harder than I tought... Just know that I just don't think "Think positive and never think about disgrace period"

--

about this:

Saying that we should stick our heads in the sand like ostriches is the most unmetal thing one can do. Even suicide takes more courage.

I'm saying the contrary: Stick your head out to the world. You may be blessed or you may be cursed with disgrace. Obssessing won't change it, so why worry?

[nothingnowhere]

Jew Bob: Kind of, but you and the guy above you are maybe missing some details in my thinking.

I believe everyone should accept those facts. But , imagine if everyday I tought of everything that might happen: I would never ride a bus or a car, or a plane because of accident's, I'd be afraid of desease, etc.

What I tried to say is that life is uncertain. And there is little you can do to avoid the unavoidable. You may go trought your whole whole life without one single disgrace happening to you and your family. As a matter of fact a lot of people do.

Things that will happen... haven't happened yet. We can prevent bad things of course, and apart from that, we can only live life in the present. In the end of your life you could tell what life was

A father who raises kids and maintains a family does not want them killed. He know that can happen. But a sane person would not think about his family's disgrace often: He would do his best and live each day thankfully. If something happens then you have to adjust.

My toughts on this have something to do with the chaos of reality... Life is unfair, and to accept that unfairness, you must accept also the blessings. If you go trought life without your family or you suffering disgraces, you have been blessed. Some other family may not be granted this, and they may curse life. A lot of sane people I know have a corageous attitude towards life: Do what is necessary and responsible, do not think A Lot about disgraces, for if they are to happen, tought will not stop them.

Anyway, I'm done trying to explain my toughts and feelings on this, it's harder than I tought... Just know that I just don't think "Think positive and never think about disgrace period"

I think the point they're trying to make that you're missing is that it is best to be aware of and prepared for misfortune. Being prepared for doesn't mean being constantly worried about reality, it means being at peace with it while still trying to actively protect what matters to you.

[istaros]

I think the point they're trying to make that you're missing is that it is best to be aware of and prepared for misfortune. Being prepared for doesn't mean being constantly worried about reality, it means being at peace with it while still trying to actively protect what matters to you.

Yes. There is a dividing line between awareness and obsession. To be aware of something damaging can lead to one of two mental approaches: that of the warrior or that of the potential victim. You get to choose which one you take.

[Prospero]

What you need is a customary metaphysical slap on the face.

[indjaseemun]

The slap on the face would only prove my point. It would make me mad and more aware, no distractions, wich means living in the moment, and the sudden pain and violence of the slap would make me see that there is limited importance to tought, and if I tried to maintain the state of mind after the slap, I I would deal with things as they came, not trying to predict the future, as it is unavoidable (simple rational decision: time and energy get wasted when thinking too much about hard stuff that's beyond my control. If they are to happen they will, but they probably not, so it's wiser to live carefree)

[Greeneville]

What you need is a customary metaphysical slap on the face.

This would be a great start...

[Conservationist]

How do the people on this forum cope with the chaos of the world, wich means any of us, our loved ones (parents, siblings, sons and daughters) can be killed at any moment or even worse, tortured for sadistic purposes of maniacs or bored people who decide to torture and kill for fun?

I'm not worried about this so much as that our species may fail.