Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Collapse News Desk

Collapse News Desk
June 04, 2010, 03:10:24 AM
Notice that it isn't an overpopulation problem. It's a western meat-eating habits problem. By standing in the way rather than leading, the United Nations has been part of the problem all along.

Quote
A global shift towards a vegan diet is vital to save the world from hunger, fuel poverty and the worst impacts of climate change, a UN report said today.

As the global population surges towards a predicted 9.1 billion people by 2050, western tastes for diets rich in meat and dairy products are unsustainable, says the report from United Nations Environment Programme's (UNEP) international panel of sustainable resource management.

It says: "Impacts from agriculture are expected to increase substantially due to population growth increasing consumption of animal products. Unlike fossil fuels, it is difficult to look for alternatives: people have to eat. A substantial reduction of impacts would only be possible with a substantial worldwide diet change, away from animal products."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/02/un-report-meat-free-diet

Re: Third World Planet Earth
June 04, 2010, 03:33:04 AM
While I do think it is a good idea to adopt vegan diets to conserve land, this only works so long as the population stays low. Of course, this would not happen. Over population is the real issue here.

Re: Third World Planet Earth
June 04, 2010, 05:08:59 AM
If you actually read a little bit of the original report, the UN didn't (couldn't) say anything about recommending a vegan diet. But I think it's a little bit too big of a jump for most people to make to fight climate change. Most westerners shutter at the idea of having one meat-free day per week.

 A movement to decentralize the western food system seems like a more logical and realistic choice.  The methods of factory farming are incredibly destructive to our health, the economy and the environment.

Re: Third World Planet Earth
June 04, 2010, 05:39:00 AM
I severely question the healthiness of a vegan diet.  I do however agree about factory farms.

Now that that's out of the way, this is too much of a quantity over quality issue.  More people?  How about better fed people (not starving for protein and essential fats)?  How about trying to balance that with the fact that our resources are limited and our relationship to nature has a certain fragility about it?

Re: Third World Planet Earth
June 05, 2010, 09:01:14 AM
I severely question the healthiness of a vegan diet.  I do however agree about factory farms.

Now that that's out of the way, this is too much of a quantity over quality issue.  More people?  How about better fed people (not starving for protein and essential fats)?  How about trying to balance that with the fact that our resources are limited and our relationship to nature has a certain fragility about it?

I agree with this.  It's also worth noting that the U.S. had millions of grazing creatures in the mid-west for quite some time, even up until recently.  Were we really on the precipice of Armageddon as a result of bison herds a few hundred years ago?


Re: Third World Planet Earth
June 06, 2010, 01:36:34 AM
Some time in the late 1980s or early 1990s, right around when NAFTA was ramping up, what was formerly the Amazon rainforest turned into cattle grazing turf for American beef consumption. This is an evil and it's in our faces. Yet, our great numbers make this happen. With a sensible population size, the southern and midwest states could provide the necessary grazing turf as before.

Re: Third World Planet Earth
June 06, 2010, 03:41:26 AM
This isn't the only qualified analyst coming to such conclusions.

Quote
  • The financial markets are now casinos, a place where only inveterate gamblers feel at home.  Rampant uncertainty and distrust have turned investments in stocks, bonds, and real-estate into the equivalent of lottery tickets.
  • Existing economic security is evaporating.  Our governments are approaching default, and with them the viability of the social safety nets they provide.  Real estate is in ongoing free fall.  Incomes are in decline, caught in the buzz-saw of global outsourcing.  Pensions and benefits are vanishing through fraud, organizational bankruptcy or forced shifts to contract work.
  • Worse, the social decay, corruption, crime, and widespread violence experienced by other countries in economic circumstances similar to our own, looms on the horizon.  We will all soon live in corrupt hollow states.

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2010/06/the-only-investment-worth-having.html

For more perspective, see also the video presentation by Nils Gilman on The Global Illicit Economy during the 4th European Futurists Conference in Lucerne in 2008.

Re: Third World Planet Earth
June 06, 2010, 04:39:20 AM
The typical Western (especially American) diet has an unnecessary reliance on meat and dairy. Knowing what I know about the conventional production methods of these products, I can't bring myself to buy them. I rarely say this in person, because I require social interaction, but I think people who say that "I just eat ___ because it really tastes good, so I don't think about how it's made and avoid confrontations with this reality" are spineless shit. I tried veganism after 2/3 year of vegetarianism, and the conclusion I've reached is to buy conservative amounts of meat and dairy (eggs in particular) from local, artisanal, holistic farms... large amounts of dairy and meat make one feel sluggish. A poorly planned vegan diet can make one weak; a good one feels about as healthy as you can get. And If money is a big issue, it's not even that hard to eat well (taste and nutrition-wise) on a diet of fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, and (preferably whole wheat) starch. It's crazy that people with huge disposable incomes eat trashy factory food. I think the current generations of this declining period in our society will be remember in history as, among other things, the selfish fatasses who committed ecocide and turned the world into a mall because they considered fastfood hamburgers an inalienable human right.

Re: Third World Planet Earth
June 06, 2010, 10:22:27 PM
"I like how [sodium/lipids/sugars/carbs/preservatives] taste" is why heart disease and cancers are the biggest killers. It's also why freedom of choice free market Americans are now the fat dumb cattle of the Earth, where before they were lean, mean entrepreneurs and pioneers.

Re: Third World Planet Earth
June 07, 2010, 01:44:42 PM
Quote
The financial markets are now casinos, a place where only inveterate gamblers feel at home.  Rampant uncertainty and distrust have turned investments in stocks, bonds, and real-estate into the equivalent of lottery tickets.

What nonsense. In the short term market prices will always be driven by human psychology. Stock goes up a little, people notice, start buying, prices inflate, someone notices that, sells, prices go down, others sell, stock crashes. The problem is that when people buy, it's because the prices have been going up, and at that point, they're normally about to drop. People are stupid, they expect to make easy money by cashing in on trends. That's not how its done.

Value investors carefully research stocks and pick those that are undervalued, therefore offering large margins of safety. They're the guys who know how much a stock is worth, and buy based on that, not on emotions or trends. Typically a value investor buys when stocks have crashed, because they know they're undervalued, and sell when they're up, when prices catch up to valuations. It's pretty easy to multiply your money in the markets if you know what you're doing.

Re: Third World Planet Earth
June 07, 2010, 04:05:11 PM
Market price this:

Quote
Who will catch the last Tuna? Japan or France?

The war already began a few years ago! Only 10% of bluefin tuna are still alive in the Atlantic Ocean and in the Mediterranean. Because of the earth’s overpopulation, we are already fighting for the last tuna. The next fight will be for the very last whale and the very last sardine, etc…

http://bestgreensandiego.wordpress.com/2010/06/06/break-through-blog-who-will-catch-the-last-tuna-japan-or-france/

Re: Third World Planet Earth
June 07, 2010, 05:52:12 PM
It amazes me how little people my age understand of the correlation between what you eat and how healthy you are.  When I try to explain this they perceive it as some sort of mysticism or magic.  'I guess that makes sense'  is the farthest I've achieved in trying to supplant some knowledge of it.  Perhaps they just don't care.  After all, the government will take care of them when they're too bloated and feeble to lift cheeseburgers to their mouths by themselves anymore.

Re: Third World Planet Earth
June 07, 2010, 07:04:34 PM
Market price this:

Quote
Who will catch the last Tuna? Japan or France?

The war already began a few years ago! Only 10% of bluefin tuna are still alive in the Atlantic Ocean and in the Mediterranean. Because of the earth’s overpopulation, we are already fighting for the last tuna. The next fight will be for the very last whale and the very last sardine, etc…

http://bestgreensandiego.wordpress.com/2010/06/06/break-through-blog-who-will-catch-the-last-tuna-japan-or-france/

Lets not forget that most tuna is used for Sushi, a product available only to the worlds richest and lowest populated countries. For instance, the most expensive restaurant in the NYC is a sushi shop where two people can dine for 1000$.

Re: Third World Planet Earth
June 16, 2010, 02:30:09 AM
That indicates the more people we have, the less likely any of the finest things the planet can provide will be distributed to a given person. Overpopulation causes class war in this way. Socialists therefore are in error proposing distributism that ignores population numbers. Or, perhaps the unspoken idea, since the entire planet has already been colonized, is to send vast excess numbers off to wars. An alternative is to cut welfare to instead fund off planet colonization projects.

Quote
SUPER-sizing Australia's population may have grave consequences on our health, boosting rates of obesity, asthma and depression, a new study warns.

The findings, published online in the Medical Journal of Australia, come amid a debate on Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's call for a "Big Australia".

Australia's population is expected to expand by more than 60 per cent, reaching 35 million by 2050, with rapid immigration driving the growth.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/huge-australian-population-growth-could-have-grave-health-consequences/story-e6frf7jo-1225852946308


Re: Third World Planet Earth
June 17, 2010, 07:26:56 PM
Interesting ideas. However, It seems to me that the people who focus on population generally make the same mistake as those who focus on consumption, namely concentrate on only that. Remember: IPAT. To illustrate: even if you killed off everyone in the third would, you would still have large unregulated industries moving in to operate in those countries. The mining industry is a good example and would even be less constrained then it is now due the resultant absence of local resistance and land ownership. Overpopulation is no silver bullet. The environmental issues we have are complex and generally require different solutions in different countries.

The down side of seeing radical, politically "incorrect" ideologies as answers to the environmental problems we face is that you are marginalizing environmentalism from the mainstream (just look at how many websites exist - usually American - pointing to the fact that the first 200 laws passed by Hitler in the Third Reich were environmental. There are also famous books arguing that environmentalists are historically fascists etc. to the detriment of the movement. Further consequences of radicalism (besides alienation) include diluting more plausible solutions, confusing the electorate and hence making room for charlatans (Bjorn Lomborg), fragmenting the movement and generally adding more fodder to the talk - which is what people like Lee Raymond love since thats what the history of environmentalism is: talk.

Some things I would personally like to see: more pride in their pre-colonial history on the part of third world countries (the American Dream is a philosophical disease) and you don't need CO2 to run a civilization. If I were a millionaire I would personally start a nonprofit teaching poor people how to leave their urban squatter camps and lead a tribal life in the wild (Remember, Afrika might have a high, growing population, but it is still the least densely populated continent in the world.

Greenhouse gas reduction should be, to my mind, the most immediate goal of the developed countries, since Global Warming dwarfs all the problems we currently face. With view to precedents, progressive, socialist countries seem to be doing better here than their capitalist neighbors.

Population reduction is a long term goal. Wars are not the answer since their totalization through the industrial revolution places great strains on the environment (scorched earth, Vietman / Agent Orange, Canada's forest industry "boom" during the Napoleonic wars etc). And, how many nuclear war heads exist today? I head France has been testing theirs in the Mediterranean?  The proven way to reduce population size is by allowing women to participate in the workplace and getting countries past their demographic transition.