Thrash metal

[death metal black metal]

In my view, and historically speaking, this is a nonsense term.

Thrash music = metal/HC crossover.

Speed metal = Metallica, Destruction, Megadeth, Exodus

They are radically different genres, and both embrace leftism with the lock-step of post-hardcore punk bands.

[phantasm]

In my view, and historically speaking, this is a nonsense term.

Thrash music = metal/HC crossover.

Speed metal = Metallica, Destruction, Megadeth, Exodus

They are radically different genres, and both embrace leftism with the lock-step of post-hardcore punk bands.

The whole genre name mix up is somthing perplexing to me.  When I was growing up I knew bands like Metallica as thrash as that's always what I was told.  Really that's how most people title it these days...I guess it's like many other things in this world that have switched meanings over time, I just don't know how it happened. Perhaps those who lived consciously through the era do?  

I actually think the American thrash/speed bands embraced leftism (which is because of the leftist anarcho punk roots), I wouldn't say the same for the Europeans.  I don't conisder Destruction to be leftist for example.

[kontinual]

I don't conisder Destruction to be leftist for example.

...but KREATOR most definitely makes up for them.

[phantasm]

...but KREATOR most definitely makes up for them.

heh, yeah.  I was thinking of Kreator afterwards actually.

Overall though I think that trend was far less seen in Europe than in America.

[phantasm]

Coincedentally most of my favorite speed (or speed influenced albums) are European:

Some of my favorite speed bands were (not limited to the following):

Destruction
Pestilence (though they crossed into death)
Possessed
Sadus
Sabbat
Sepultura
Sodom
Testament

(note many are linked to death metal; and I'm going to leave Bathory and company in the black metal camp):

These are bands that just give a run down of what I listen to in the speed genre.  I go for the darker bands in the genre for the most part and just never heavily gravitated towards those heavily politically oriented bands (which is where a lot of the leftism came in).  

Speed/thrash was the first genre of metal I got into and for that I will forever pay it my respects, but overall it's not the genre of music that enamors me and I pull out a speed cd when I just want to remember old times or just feel like listening to strict metal.  The thrash bands that still are on my playlists are all those listed above and it's mostly just Destruction, Sepultura, and Possessed.  These days I'm listening to styles of music that are in the vein of things I listened to when I was about 4 and 5 thus I have more ambient, folk and classical playing along with noise, industrial, and black metal.  Really death metal was big for me a couple years ago and when I finally accepted black metal it became the ultimate form of metal oriented music for me (though black metal is so much more which is why I grew into it so deeply).  If any metal style is going to be in my collection for life it's black metal followed by some death metal bands and a few thrash/speed bands (mostly just the ones in my list, give or take a few more).  

I'm not much for most of those california speed/thrash bands who were into skating and such, which reminds me, was Suicidal Tendancies considered thrash or speed metal?

[phantasm]

Now can anyone anwser how speed and thrash got mixed up?  Because most everyone makes the mistake.

[FIAT]

In my view, and historically speaking, this is a nonsense term.

Thrash music = metal/HC crossover.

Speed metal = Metallica, Destruction, Megadeth, Exodus

They are radically different genres, and both embrace leftism with the lock-step of post-hardcore punk bands.

Don't you love having to make this clarification over and over again?

If you look at it chronologically, it makes the whole concept a bit more lucid. Compare bands like DRI and Cryptic Slaughter to Unseen Terror and Napalm Death; you will see how thrash eventually evolved into grindcore while retaining its punk and leftist roots. Speed metal on the other hand diverged out of the NWOBHM. You'll see the slight transitions from bands like Motorhead and Iron Maiden to Metallica and Testament. Speed metal would retain the melody of the former generation of bands quite noticeably, as well as the extended soloing, amongst other notable traits. The differences are rather obvious.

[FIAT]

Now can anyone anwser how speed and thrash got mixed up?  Because most everyone makes the mistake.

I'll take a shot at it and say this occurred when early black/death metal bands like Sepultura/Sodom/Bathory incorporated speed metal into what is considered by some of their later fans to be their preeminent work.

However, I was a toddler when this happened, so I wouldn't deem myself to be a reliable source.

[death metal black metal]

How it happened was shockingly simple, actually: magazines, labels and radio DJs discovered that "thrash" was a more saleable term than "speed metal."

But what one poster said above is true about the divergence: thrash wasn't really metal music, but it borrowed a lot from metal - as did almost every later hardcore band. It was crossover, and it came about after HC died. Then the metal bands did the crossover thing, and took a lot of thrash - the speed, the punk breaks (see Overkill for examples), the voices - and turned it into metal music.

Kind of like the difference between an Italian and an Arab. An Arab is a Semite with some Caucasian blood (thrash); an Italian is a Caucasian with some Arab blood (speed metal).

[Big Cock Beelzebub]

Speed metal - rock-based leftist faggotry, such as metallica, megadeth, etc
Thrash metal - metal/hc crossover
Primitive death metal - Slayer, Possessed, etc

[Annihilaytorr]

Arguing that thrash never really existed all of a sudden on technical grounds is kind of silly considering that many musically unrelated bands are listed as Death and Black Metal in the Dark Legions Archive.  Black and Death metal were not even finite terms universally until the early 90s.

[Annihilaytorr]

We don't define Black Metal by its early meaning(Venom?), so why define thrash that way? Like Death and Black its often an ambigious concept that is based in the spirit of the music as much as the actual musical elements.

[death metal black metal]

Arguing that thrash never really existed all of a sudden on technical grounds is kind of silly

Thrash metal never existed.

Thrash existed.

Death and black metal were terms not in common use except among the few, but were standardized enough to make it into Spin in 1991-1992 (?).

This isn't an anal-retentiveness issue for me as much as a historically correct one: to give the term "thrash" to speed metal is to slight another genre.

It's like calling Metallica "black metal."

[flittermouse]

"What's practical is logical. What the hell, who cares?"
- Britney Spears

Care to explain? LOL

Could anyone recommend me some good thrash? I've hardly heard any, only been listening to metal couple of years and probably found stuff like Burzum and Darkthrone too easily.

[Big Cock Beelzebub]

Slayer was clearly a different genre to Metallica and Megadeth, would everyone agree?