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Thrash metal

Annihilaytorr

Re: Thrash metal
November 25, 2004, 06:38:09 PM
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Slayer was clearly a different genre to Metallica and Megadeth, would everyone agree?


No not at all. Slayer was more evil then the other two but musically they were each a variant of the same basic formula - NWOBHM and Punk/hardcore. Slayer's sound was more akin to NWOBHM until they saw a Metallica concert and Kerry King was in Megadeth for a while anyway.

Man...I can't wait for another few years to pass so people will start saying Burzum and Darkthrone are different genres too.  Such foolishness.

Re: Thrash metal
November 25, 2004, 06:49:35 PM
By "Slayer" I was referring to "Hell Awaits" and "Reign In Blood", btw.

Darkthrone and Burzum are far more closely related than, say, "Hell Awaits" and "Master of Puppets", with the latter being a leftist rock album for the most part, and the former being an extreme, complex piece with entirely different ideological aims.

Annihilaytorr

Re: Thrash metal
November 25, 2004, 07:15:16 PM

South of Heaven often slips into groove-rock mode while And Justice For All is Metallica's most  neo-classical album(despite being overlong)...

Hell Awaits and Reign in Blood are still essentially NWOBHM(Venom, JP) and Hardcore punk music...

"Lashing out the action, returning the reaction
Weak are ripped and torn away
Hypnotizing power, crushing all that cower
Battery is here to stay

[chorus:]
Smashing through the boundries
lunacy has found me
cannot stop the Battery
Pounding out aggression
turns into obsession
cannot kill the Battery
Cannot kill the family
Battery is found in me
Battery
[End Chorus]

Crushing all deceivers, mashing non-believers
never ending potency
Hungry violence seeker, feeding off the weaker
Breeding on insanity

[Chorus]

Circle of Destruction, Hammer comes crushing
Powerhouse of energy
Whipping up a fury, Dominating flurry
We create the Battery

[Chorus]"


Yea, damn Metallica and their socialist populist messages!!!

Annihilaytorr

Re: Thrash metal
November 25, 2004, 07:49:31 PM
Thrash/Crossover, Thrash Metal and Speed Metal all represent the same basic ideas in metal from 1980 - 1989, just with varying degrees of Punk/hardcore influence. Speed metal was like NWOBHM pioneers just played faster without a whole lot of direct punk influence on the riffs(chugging palm mutes usually lacking- see Agent Steel for a good example) Thrash/crossover was mostly punk/hardcore with minor metal elements(DRI are a good example) and then the largest category was Thrash Metal, which was the great compromise between the two.

Everything from Venom to Metallica to Bathory to Slayer to Possessed is in this world-wide genre.


Re: Thrash metal
November 25, 2004, 08:06:14 PM
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Speed metal was like NWOBHM pioneers just played faster without a whole lot of direct punk influence on the riffs(chugging palm mutes usually lacking- see Agent Steel for a good example) Thrash/crossover was mostly punk/hardcore with minor metal elements(DRI are a good example)


Speed metal was usually defined by the muted riffing. The other stuff I refer to as "power metal," but in the day was simply called heavy metal.

DRI, COC, Cryptic Slaughter, Dead Horse and Fearless Iranians From Hell are good examples of Thrash bands.


Annihilaytorr

Re: Thrash metal
November 25, 2004, 08:27:18 PM
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Speed metal was usually defined by the muted riffing. The other stuff I refer to as "power metal," but in the day was simply called heavy metal.

DRI, COC, Cryptic Slaughter, Dead Horse and Fearless Iranians From Hell are good examples of Thrash bands.



Ever since I got into metal I have read the ANUS definition of what thrash was and never understood it. How could bands like COC and DRI who were late comers in the 80s movement, and influenced by pre-existing thrash bands, who were originally playing hardcore(not thrash at first, that came later) after the term thrash was being used to describe bands like Overkill and Slayer, be the only ones called thrash...

It makes no sense.  This is probably why SRP and his disciples are the only ones to really think this way out of the entire metal world.

Its a shame ANUS is the only place to get Black and Death metal right, and the only place to get Thrash metal wrong...

Humans...

Annihilaytorr

Re: Thrash metal
November 25, 2004, 08:34:46 PM
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DRI, COC, Cryptic Slaughter, Dead Horse and Fearless Iranians From Hell are good examples of Thrash bands.




All those are good examples thrash/crossover. As in Hardcore that was crossing over into thrash, a genre of metal that already existed. Most of those bands didn't even get started till the 83 and 84(by then Overkill, Metallica, Exodus, Slayer, Metal Church, Bathory, etc had albums or demos out), and most had a purely hardcore era before listening to Metallica, Exodus and Slayer and the rest and thinking "ya know, musically this stuff is related to what we play anyway, and has more balls then pure hardcore, lets fucking THRASH IT OUT"



Annihilaytorr

Re: Thrash metal
November 25, 2004, 09:08:05 PM
The main difference between Slayer and Metallica is that Slayer were thrashing for Satan and Metallica were thrashing for Jesus.

Re: Thrash metal
November 25, 2004, 09:13:49 PM
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How could bands like COC and DRI who were late comers in the 80s movement, and influenced by pre-existing thrash bands, who were originally playing hardcore(not thrash at first, that came later) after the term thrash was being used to describe bands like Overkill and Slayer, be the only ones called thrash...

 All those are good examples thrash/crossover. As in Hardcore that was crossing over into thrash, a genre of metal that already existed. Most of those bands didn't even get started till the 83 and 84(by then Overkill, Metallica, Exodus, Slayer, Metal Church, Bathory, etc had albums or demos out), and most had a purely hardcore era before listening to Metallica, Exodus and Slayer and the rest and thinking "ya know, musically this stuff is related to what we play anyway, and has more balls then pure hardcore, lets fucking THRASH IT OUT"  


Very simply: your facts are wrong.

DRIs first works were 1982, and COC was of similar vintage. This was all inspired by Discharge in the same year, which is why 1983-1985 was such a potent time: hardcore finally produced something which fused easily with metal.

Back then, punk wasn't as metal as it is now, so to punk ears DRI sounded like metal :)

Further, "thrash" as a term was used before the music came around, to describe the culture from which this music originated. (You can find lyrical hints to that culture on the first DRI album.)

At the time, most people who were the types to later get into underground metal REFUSED to refer to speed metal as thrash for that reason. The magazines got ahold of it, and thus Metallica et al became called "thrash." Eventually, this morphed into "thrash metal" for the keyword happy.

However, originally thrash and speed metal were quite different, often antagonistic, genres.


Annihilaytorr

Re: Thrash metal
November 25, 2004, 09:28:25 PM
Yea um no, Metallica and Slayer and Exodus called their music thrash metal and their lyrics reflect that on their early albums.("Thrashing all around, acting like a maniac, WHIPLASH!" "fists are in the air thrashing everywhere, banging to the sound...")

DRI had nothing to do with thrash on their first album and were a pure punk/hardcore band that got into thrash metal and thus started to copy thrash metal bands.

Quorthon in interviews often said he thought of his music as extreme Thrash and nothing else.


Annihilaytorr

Re: Thrash metal
November 25, 2004, 09:32:43 PM
By the mid 80s, extreme metal was known as thrash. You try and rely on early uses of the term to define the genre to this day, but that is totally fallacious, especially in light of the fact that Venom were the only ones using the term Black Metal in the early 80s and we do not hold the genre to mean music like theirs.

The term "thrash" like the term "black metal" originally meant something else, but became to mean more.

Annihilaytorr

Re: Thrash metal
November 25, 2004, 09:34:34 PM
np - Overkill - In Union We Stand.

Annihilaytorr

Re: Thrash metal
November 25, 2004, 09:42:55 PM
And if Thrash Metal is simply a media label, you had better move Immortal and Enslaved into Holocaust Metal and Viking Metal respectively because they rejected the term Black Metal and saw Black Metal as a media label...

Annihilaytorr

Re: Thrash metal
November 25, 2004, 09:47:27 PM
Perception is reality, especially when it comes to art and artists.  Most of the Thrash Metal artists saw themselves as Thrash metal and all the fans do. Thrash is just as much an established genre as Death and Black metal is.

I am sorry but on this issue, only shit comes out of the ANUS.  UltraBoris is right on this issue.

SRP has death and black metal pegged though...

For a history of the various music titled "thrash metal",
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrash_metal is a good start.

Re: Thrash metal
November 26, 2004, 04:13:23 AM
Wikipedia is not a serious resource, sorry. See the GNAA page debacle for proof of that.

I will end this debate with a single question: what did the verb to thrash originally mean?