Karma or Valhalla?

[devolved]

Which is a better concept? Which is a better mindset for building a great society?

Europeans seem to stick to the "Valhalla" concept- a glorious postmortem reward for good deeds which lasts until the the world's ending. The Christian concept of Heaven is a continuation of this idea (the ancient Greeks' view of the afterlife was gloomier and imo inferior, but still has the basic emphasis on the individual). The Hindus came up with the ingenious concept of life as an eternal series of reincarnations, a struggle that transcended the individual and the individual's understanding.

The Hindus' approach seems more evolved overall; but perhaps it can degenerate into a fatalist depression? What does this forum think?

[scourge]

The fulfillment of dharma leads to Valhalla. There is no dichotomy.

[Barbarossa]

I do not know a great deal about either.  If you would like to know my ideal form of 'heaven' I would have to say it comes from the Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri.  That might just be because I was raised catholic and I always enjoyed the idea of knowing all truths.

[indjaseemun]

I think scourge may be right, those concepts may be pointing to the same thing.

Now reincarnation is something I'll never know: Deep inside I think it's untrue, but there are evidences. I plan to buy I book when I arrange some money, Reincarnation Biology or something, two volumes with detailed studies including photographs of scars supposedly of the deceased person that manifested on the living reincarnation.

What I do believe is that a lot who claim to see past lives really did, and believed that. My conclusion is, that's a consequence of a kind of spiritual enlightment, and it may be true or not that it comes from reincarnation, but the feeling certainly is real (many think it can be just the conscience of the continuation of life and knowing that you came from a long line of ancestors). Another book I plan to read is the autobiography of an yogi. Those mystics, I believe they reached enlightment, and many of them claim past lives and believe in reincarnation.

[chpinhlf]

I suppose the main difference is Karma contains punishment in this life and future lives, whereas heaven and hell are merely for an afterlife. Idealistically, a society believes in neither.

[Antihuman]

We do not want a belief in either per se, but an understanding of how each may be descriptive of certain real-world, non-mythological, states of being is crucial.

I guess the difference is that karma is more rooted in the 'material' world, however, both concepts speak of the relationship between our immediate behavior and what is to result.  Ultimately I prefer the idea of karma, because it is true that our actions have repercussions that eventually come back to us, be they merely psychological.  We create our own circumstances.

Valhalla, or more commonly Heaven... this concept usually ends up justifying the trivial 'mistakes' that build up and wear down our integrity by justifying behavior under a belief in what is seen as the right stuff.  Keep in mind that Christians claim it is faith which saves us, not the merit of our works.  Yet its the latter which is ideology made manifest.

And good to keep in mind that they are not mutually exclusive.

[Cargést]

I suppose the main difference is Karma contains punishment in this life and future lives, whereas heaven and hell are merely for an afterlife. Idealistically, a society believes in neither.

You really need to learn about something before you begin to attempt to discuss it.

[Sammaellofi]

I think you should stick to calling it the "Heaven" comcept and not the "Valhalla" concept.  There are similarities, but Valhalla is not a place you go to when you've done good deeds and where good things happen to you for all time.  Valhalla is a place where those who were killed in battle go and prepare for a battle that is always coming closer.  Valhalla and Hel made Heaven and Hell a little easier to swallow, but they are not the same thing, and for this argument, it would be better to not be so general.


I believe in neither.  Both are superstition and no ammount of rationalization or Loki-ing has given me any good reason to believe in them.

[scourge]

I don't get the impression that dharma is synonymous with good deeds. It's more like duty, or not being negligent or foolish. If your role is warrior (most of the Norsemen) you fight with valor until death, fulfill your dharma, your duty as a warrior, and get swept up into Valhalla. Cowardice and fear for a warrior would be karmic for neglected duty. The warrior coward is captured or dies like the valorous, but comes back into thralldom, or perhaps reincarnated as livestock. Either way, a demotion for chosen failure. These concepts are reasonably compatible.

[Transcix]

Which is a better concept? Which is a better mindset for building a great society?

Surely it is not a matter of picking which one better suits your fancy, but rather it is a matter of what is and isn't True!

[devolved]

Which is a better concept? Which is a better mindset for building a great society?

Surely it is not a matter of picking which one better suits your fancy, but rather it is a matter of what is and isn't True!

Maybe what works best in a real situation is what is more "True"... I'm just not sure which works better in a societal context. I don't believe in life after death, but the idea doesn't seem to be going away, and if believed by enough people, can have a significant effect on their behavior.

[Eleison]

It should be understood that karma simply refers to the web of cause and effect.  This means that all actions have consequences.  The western interpretation of the term is the fault of pseudo-spiritual orders who brought Hinduism to Europe in the early 20th century.  As for valhalla, heaven & hell, paradise etc.  They refer to the karmic 'direction' of the being at the moment of death, as such the concepts are not exclusive, and this is true even within Hinduism.

[hahahas]

the name of karma not that deeds you had been done in our life but in many life you put foward or backwardsho that why people nothing need to remorse but to brain watersheed the bad or evil deed in your mind

[radiant=ANIME WITCHES]

Surely it is not a matter of picking which one better suits your fancy, but rather it is a matter of what is and isn't True!

Considering that neither can be proven objectively to be true, it is far more honest -- and useful -- to do the former.

Anyway, good luck searching for spiritual clarity on an internet forum.

the name of karma not that deeds you had been done in our life but in many life you put foward or backwardsho that why people nothing need to remorse but to brain watersheed the bad or evil deed in your mind

gambatte mina-san!

[Mithrandir]

I think many of you including the OP need to research further into Karma, as the gist of it mentioned here is mainly wrong (except for one or two posters). Frickin Hollywood.