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Introverts: foundations of civilization

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
June 27, 2010, 02:01:41 AM
One of these is the truth:

A) Nature. We have more pop culture because of the rise of socializer types.
B) Nurture. We have more socializer types because of the rise of pop culture.

We can add a level of complexity by replacing rise with democratic enabling in each selection.

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
June 27, 2010, 02:13:22 AM
One of these is the truth:

A) Nature. We have more pop culture because of the rise of socializer types.
B) Nurture. We have more socializer types because of the rise of pop culture.

We can add a level of complexity by replacing rise with democratic enabling in each selection.

I hadn't thought of that, but the choices are not mutually exclusive.

People are born with behavioral tendencies, but their environment (including cultural) encourages certain tendencies. Culture also has an influence on who is attractive, as people who are more familiar with cultural standards appear more competent to more people. So we have more people who are sociable by nature because more people were nurtured into thinking that is an especially positive trait and so reproduced with more sociable people producing people even more sociable by nature.

So it's both.

I usually find myself on the Nature side of any given Nature vs Nurture argument. Nature matters but it's not everything. Even if it's 80%, prevailing pop culture influences that remaining 20% having a noticeable, and over time, growing impact.

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
June 27, 2010, 03:14:05 AM
I'm a 4:1 as well, but that's just a best estimate. Genes determine personality type for sure. The typologies, especially the outgoing and ambitious ones, create a culture suitable to them. The born irrational extroverts will instinctively gather their leader, creator, and doer subtypes to put it all together over time. This may also favor reproductive selection on the 20% nurture side in their favor as well. Taking another step back, this is all just nature experimenting to find the best design. According to our various collapse discussions, flashy modernity and pop culture design isn't going to be selected fittest after all.

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
June 27, 2010, 05:36:12 AM
Anyone with noise problems should google "white noise". Download it and listen to it with headphones.

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
June 27, 2010, 03:49:26 PM
Supporting data for the 80% side:

Quote
Here we see the correlation between abilities and personality traits. These people aren’t bad at economics because they are liberals; they became liberals because they’re bad at economics, and have related personality traits. If you’re not good at orderliness, you’d better not have a personality geared toward it — in addition, you’re unlikely to have that personality, since appreciation for orderliness only comes with an ability to do it well (this is a restatement of the Dunning-Kruger effect).

People like to believe in “nurture,” or social conditioning and education, over “nature,” or inherent traits, but that’s basically an illusion. It makes us feel good to think we choose how to be, we choose our decisions, and that we plan our lives. Sounds like we’re in control, doesn’t it? But time and again, the results returned are that we act as we are wired by nature, and then invent a nurture excuse to justify or explain it.

http://www.amerika.org/2010/social-reality/are-political-choices-intentional-at-all/

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
June 29, 2010, 02:16:54 AM
On the other hand, introversion is also the handmaiden of neurosis.

You could also say that about intelligence.

Some intelligence is bad, and it tends to break down more frequently.

However, intelligence is required for any higher function, and it massives multiplies efficiency/accuracy.

So I'll take intelligence over the stable stupid, thanks!

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
August 17, 2010, 02:25:53 AM
Here is an interesting summary of the two macro types:

Quote
Although "introvert" and "extravert" are now terms in popular usage, with "extravert" meaning "out-going" and "introvert" the opposite, Jung's own definition is philosophically more interesting. Introversion for Jung is interest in the subject, while extraversion is interest in the object. This raises the important metaphysical question about the nature of subject and object. Although Jung would have found both question and answer in Schopenhauer, he was not interested in burdening his psychological analysis with particular metaphysical doctrines. "Interest in the subject" thus simply means the internal states, whether of one's self or of others, are the primary way that the introvert relates to the world, while the extravert relates through objects. One consequence of this is that when introverts are interested in objects, this tends to isolate them rather than relate them to others -- objects for an introvert are private rather than public.

http://www.friesian.com/types.htm

Speculation
  • Extravert: particulars -> composite, bottom upward, detail oriented, laborer, "people are the result of their society", "vote Democrat/ Labor", Cthonic type
  • Introvert: composite -> particulars, top downward, design oriented, creator, "a society is a result of its people", "vote Republican/ Conservative", Solar type

DEADFORWEEKS

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
August 17, 2010, 01:43:51 PM
Foundations of this civilization my ass. They're like fucking trees. At least trees convert carbon dioxide back into oxygen, all the introverts in this fucking world does is just breathe in more oxygen and excrete CO2. Holy fucking useless. Extroverts make good leaders in nomadic groups, highly influential, and are capable of orally interacting with others which is possibly the very foundation of communication between human individuals. Introverts? HA. A disability, rather it seems.

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
August 17, 2010, 02:16:14 PM
It's saying introvert not retarded.

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
August 17, 2010, 03:12:05 PM
Foundations of this civilization my ass. They're like fucking trees. At least trees convert carbon dioxide back into oxygen, all the introverts in this fucking world does is just breathe in more oxygen and excrete CO2. Holy fucking useless. Extroverts make good leaders in nomadic groups, highly influential, and are capable of orally interacting with others which is possibly the very foundation of communication between human individuals. Introverts? HA. A disability, rather it seems.

Foundations of this civilization, and the only worthy people in existence, are the people who control societies. Everyone else is breathing filth. Why do I want to communicate with feces?

Caffeine

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
August 17, 2010, 08:28:48 PM
Introverts are a much more rare than extroverts, so we often get aimless connotations such as the following: antisocial, very shy, coldhearted, arrogant, etc.

 It's as simple as this:

Extroverts derive their energy from other people
Introverts derive energy from within
(shy people are actually extroverts who long for a better relationship/connection with others, but are fearful for whatever given reason)

If an introvert wants to chill out, then s/he spends time reading or listening to music. If an extrovert wants to recharge, then s/he goes to a party or restaurant with friends.

Jungian cognitive functions explains this (as well as other aspects) well.  Personally, I'm an INTP.  (Introvert, iNtuition, Thinking, Perceiving)
The word "introvert" gets abused, because people often link it to being shy or standoffish.

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
August 17, 2010, 09:26:56 PM
Foundations of this civilization my ass. They're like fucking trees. At least trees convert carbon dioxide back into oxygen, all the introverts in this fucking world does is just breathe in more oxygen and excrete CO2. Holy fucking useless. Extroverts make good leaders in nomadic groups, highly influential, and are capable of orally interacting with others which is possibly the very foundation of communication between human individuals. Introverts? HA. A disability, rather it seems.

Eisenhower.  Ulysses S. Grant.  Peter the Great.  Hell, even Jean-Luc Picard, apparently.  I could go on...

And I will.  Einstein, Newton, Hawking, Keynes, Nietzsche, and so on and so forth.

Caffeine

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
August 17, 2010, 10:47:52 PM
Foundations of this civilization my ass. They're like fucking trees. At least trees convert carbon dioxide back into oxygen, all the introverts in this fucking world does is just breathe in more oxygen and excrete CO2. Holy fucking useless. Extroverts make good leaders in nomadic groups, highly influential, and are capable of orally interacting with others which is possibly the very foundation of communication between human individuals. Introverts? HA. A disability, rather it seems.

Eisenhower.  Ulysses S. Grant.  Peter the Great.  Hell, even Jean-Luc Picard, apparently.  I could go on...

And I will.  Einstein, Newton, Hawking, Keynes, Nietzsche, and so on and so forth.

....and Shakespeare, Mozart, Washington, Adams, Jung himself, Gandhi....
Look at DEADFORWEAKS's 4 posts (the only posts he has), he's great at speaking without thinking first....

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
August 18, 2010, 12:05:52 AM
It's basically either a troll or some butthurt dude.  We get a lot of those, it seems.

Caffeine

Re: Introverts: foundations of civilization
August 18, 2010, 12:10:29 AM
It's basically either a troll or some butthurt dude.  We get a lot of those, it seems.

That's what banhammers are for.....