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Consensus

Consensus
July 06, 2010, 03:58:36 AM
Looking at this from a practical perspective, we should reach a consensus and then force these albums on the world: Note: consensus does not mean "everyone agrees." It means the wise elders reach an accord and filter out anything below a B+.

Related to this, It recently occurred to me that a disturbingly large number of people on these forums are less interested in reaching a consensus than in making sure their individual voice is heard.  Rather than discussing albums upon which we agree, everyone wants to talk about albums that will stir up controversy in order to gain attention.  I realised that there are perhaps five albums where my opinion differs from the general consensus here, as opposed to hundreds of releases where it does not.  If I were to spend time trying to gain credit for those albums as a sort of personal crusade, it detracts from the forward movement of the forum of a whole, although obviously this does not apply to relatively unknown works.  Some people will say that enough has been said about the classics, I disagree, if we are going to discuss music why not discuss the best.  Countless books have been written about each of the Beethoven symphonies, if we are committed to metal as an art form then there is no reason why new insights into classic works are not possible, but this requires time and effort, not just a cursory listen followed by a controversial forum post.

Re: Consensus
July 06, 2010, 10:56:43 AM
And you never see classical music afficionados argue whether, say, "Für Elise" is a masterpiece or worthless crap, no?

I don't see why discussion should be based on consensus - the discussion rather might, or should, lead us towards something more consensual. It is the spirit of the process. But indeed you are right - more people should look at the big picture, not only temporary aural pleasures. You won't see me spinning "Advent Parallax" or "Obscura" in the record player anytime soon, but I might take the time anyway to give them some promotion since they are inspirational pieces of work with value to people I trust.

It was only yesterday that I exhorted to some "elders" how beautiful it would be to agree on, say, top 30 albums of the last 30 years, but what I see happening in practice is that year by year our lists and reviews are differing more from each other. Consider "Belus", for example. This is not to say consensus is hopeless, but we probably need to approach it indirectly and express common courtesy and consideration.

Re: Consensus
July 06, 2010, 12:18:30 PM
And you never see classical music afficionados argue whether, say, "Für Elise" is a masterpiece or worthless crap, no?

I don't see why discussion should be based on consensus - the discussion rather might, or should, lead us towards something more consensual. It is the spirit of the process. But indeed you are right - more people should look at the big picture, not only temporary aural pleasures. You won't see me spinning "Advent Parallax" or "Obscura" in the record player anytime soon, but I might take the time anyway to give them some promotion since they are inspirational pieces of work with value to people I trust.

It was only yesterday that I exhorted to some "elders" how beautiful it would be to agree on, say, top 30 albums of the last 30 years, but what I see happening in practice is that year by year our lists and reviews are differing more from each other. Consider "Belus", for example. This is not to say consensus is hopeless, but we probably need to approach it indirectly and express common courtesy and consideration.

I agree with this, provided that consensus is the goal of every discussion, not individuals wishing to present their 'unique' opinion.  What I was really speaking out against was people derailing useful discussions because they believe their perspective is more important than objectivity.