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Hero: Theodor Herzl

Hero: Theodor Herzl
July 08, 2010, 08:27:41 PM
Highly intelligent people walk among us, and they see long-term patterns that no one else can perceive, so they get called idiots for a few hundred years and suddenly people "discover" that they were geniuses.

Theodor Herzl is such a man.

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although it has been hijacked by some kind of dogmatic anti-Semite who objects to ANUS' deification of Theodor Herzl
Herzl just can't catch a break.  He's hated for actually coming up with a solution to the problem of anti-semitism, but If he had remained a self-hating Jew he'd still be hated by the same folks for encouraging global Jewish immigration.

People are so afraid of being insufficient and not being accepted that they invent a myth: "we are all one" and "we will all just get along" and "we are all equal."

The reality is that populations are different by forces far bigger than human wishful thinking: biology, geography, history and difference in ideology. They need to evolve in parallel.

But the scared monkey wants to instead glom them together, force them into an average, and destroy what makes them unique. Why? Fear of the unknown, because if people are different, OMFG someone might be ahead of me.


Re: Hero: Theodor Herzl
July 09, 2010, 03:13:21 AM
Highly intelligent people walk among us, and they see long-term patterns that no one else can perceive, so they get called idiots for a few hundred years and suddenly people "discover" that they were geniuses.

Theodor Herzl is such a man.

Hasn't Herzl been a revered figure among Jews for decades?  Perhaps anti-semites have just woken up to his brilliance but I don't think I've encountered a Jew in my life who didn't hold Herzl in high esteem.  In addition, the notion that Herzl was a "self-hating Jew" is a wildly inaccurate supposition invented by bigots who are unable to deal wth the phenomenon you accurately described as "because if people are different, OMFG someone might be ahead of me."  Personally, I'm disinterested in anything proponents of hate choose for a sudden 180, as it's at that point you can be certain whatever philosophical merit an idea had will soon be replaced by marketing.

Re: Hero: Theodor Herzl
July 09, 2010, 11:35:21 AM
I think a lot of the negative press Herzl gets comes as a result of the relationship the U.S. has with modern Israel.  We send them quite a bit of money each year, we're expected to march at their side should a war arise, and in return we get nothing of substance (to what degree is that nation playing a role in Afghanistan and Iraq?).  You could argue that they provide military bases and flight routes, but so do plenty of other neighboring nations.

That's the line of reasoning I hear from those who aren't anti-Semites, but jump at the chance to wave a fist at Israel when anything related to it is brought up.

Re: Hero: Theodor Herzl
July 10, 2010, 02:04:42 PM
Hasn't Herzl been a revered figure among Jews for decades?  Perhaps anti-semites have just woken up to his brilliance but I don't think I've encountered a Jew in my life who didn't hold Herzl in high esteem.

Jews are like any other group in that they're composed of individuals, and those fit into strata. The non-politicized, non-liberal, non-dramatic Jews will always favor Herzl and other real thinkers; many of them will even openly admire Hitler because "he did some good things too." It's a product of the quality of the person. I imagine you attract the more alert crowd to yourself, so you're going to meet the smart Jews.

In addition, the notion that Herzl was a "self-hating Jew" is a wildly inaccurate supposition invented by bigots who are unable to deal wth the phenomenon you accurately described as "because if people are different, OMFG someone might be ahead of me."  Personally, I'm disinterested in anything proponents of hate choose for a sudden 180, as it's at that point you can be certain whatever philosophical merit an idea had will soon be replaced by marketing.

The oldest form of bigotry is the demand for equality, and liberalism is the mother of this bigotry.

If any one person can be Jewish, and point to 3000 years of culture and learning, that's going to offend those who don't have that.

They will slowly maneuver until they have some justification for your hatred, like:

I think a lot of the negative press Herzl gets comes as a result of the relationship the U.S. has with modern Israel.

Any person with a functional knowledge of history sees the following:

(a) The Palestinians are not an ethnic group, but an ethnic aggregate of nearby empires
(b) They hate the Jews and vice-versa
(c) The Jewish population has at least ten points on them in average IQ
(d) Palestinians are therefore doomed to mow lawns for Israelis
(e) Relocating the Palestinians to their ethnic homelands in Syria, Jordan and Egypt solves this problem

I think Israel needs a version of the Final Solution the Nazis should have implemented: stop using these people as your Mexican indios or African manservants, and instead relocate them. Jewish slave labor did not work out well for the Nazis and was a major reason why they lost the war, in addition of course to the power struggle that left Hitler dominating the Wehrmacht and therefore making decisions he -- a fucking artist, albeit a transcendental genius -- was incapable of making.

Re: Hero: Theodor Herzl
July 10, 2010, 06:48:19 PM
Just a word on Herzl's self-hatred.  Herzl was originally a de facto self-hating Jew because he placed all of the blame for anti-semitism on Jews, for their inability to properly assimilate.  When he realized that he was wrong, he converted from self-hatred to Nationalism.  Enemies of Herzl attempt to use his earlier writings out of context to give the illusion that he remained self-hating, as most people are only familiar with his work in establishing Israel.

Re: Hero: Theodor Herzl
July 10, 2010, 09:09:16 PM
I think a lot of the negative press Herzl gets comes as a result of the relationship the U.S. has with modern Israel.  We send them quite a bit of money each year, we're expected to march at their side should a war arise, and in return we get nothing of substance (to what degree is that nation playing a role in Afghanistan and Iraq?).  You could argue that they provide military bases and flight routes, but so do plenty of other neighboring nations.

That's the line of reasoning I hear from those who aren't anti-Semites, but jump at the chance to wave a fist at Israel when anything related to it is brought up.

Actually, you'd be surprised what's being done with all the money, lot's of black ops and intelligence missions, half of them serving American interests. The stuff you see while serving in the IDF. Will you trust me if I say every penny of America's that goes to Israel serves it purpose?

Re: Hero: Theodor Herzl
July 12, 2010, 12:42:26 PM
Herzl was originally a de facto self-hating Jew because he placed all of the blame for anti-semitism on Jews, for their inability to properly assimilate.  When he realized that he was wrong, he converted from self-hatred to Nationalism.

This seems to be a stage in realizing the diversity problem.

Stage 1: One side has to be to blame!

Stage 2: Oh, I get it -- diversity always fucking sucks, no matter what the different ingredients are.

He did however make this leap much faster than even most intelligent people would -- suggesting a high native intelligence and perceptive ability.

Re: Hero: Theodor Herzl
April 13, 2011, 03:03:48 AM
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National movements are frequently associated with anti-semitism. As a Jew, have you personally experienced anti-semitism by nationalist groups? If so, please share an experience or two.

Although I have never been attacked by leaders of European nationalist movements, it is possible to see why Jews of a certain age (most of whom are dead by now) might have associated anti-Semitism with certain forms of nationalism. In Europe in the early twentieth century nationalism did carry conspicuous anti-Semitic strains but except for the Russian far Right those strains donít seem to be integral to most European nationalisms today. But as Jews overreact to these forms of reawakened nationalism, and even line up on the side of Islamicist immigrants against the native population, nationalist movements of the Right may move again for understandable reasons in an anti-Jewish direction.

http://idiots.dunedain.net/paul-gottfried-on-germans-jews-catholics-and-calvinists/

Worth reading.