Metal not rock

[Nimbostratus]

• the whole "metal=classical" is a big practical joke, and YOU are the punchline

In order to understand the connection between metal and classical, it's necessary to notice that, certainly, metal is a form of popular music, with a rock background. It's foolish to think that after Wagner there was Metal, no. Nonetheless...

There was popular music dominating the entire scene, right? Yes, goofy themes and boring structures. Some people just got enough of that in a few years (Black Sabbath, Robert Fripp, Jethro Tull) and so they took the rock band and its characteristic syncopation, yes, to bring different themes and structures, which couldn't be linked to anything, not even jazz, as would to classical in melody (a focus on diatonic modal scales, not just pentaphony) and in narrative structure. Not only metal music, but also bands like Kraftwerk and Dead Can Dance, joined into this classical orientation.

From popular music, neoclassical music merges granting it a... higher direction.

Neoclassical music preserves ancient tradition and accelerates it into modern form, using the values that are eternal to guide us from the past into the future. Neoclassical popular music includes some artists from the following genres: ambient, electronica, synthpop, black/death metal, noise, industrial, EBM and postpunk.  

http://www.anus.com/zine/music/

[neverwhere]

• the whole "metal=classical" is a big practical joke, and YOU are the punchline

In order to understand the connection between metal and classical, it's necessary to notice that, certainly, metal is a form of popular music, with a rock background. It's foolish to think that after Wagner there was Metal, no. Nonetheless...

There was popular music dominating the entire scene, right? Yes, goofy themes and boring structures. Some people just got enough of that in a few years (Black Sabbath, Robert Fripp, Jethro Tull) and so they took the rock band and its characteristic syncopation, yes, to bring different themes and structures, which couldn't be linked to anything, not even jazz, as would to classical in melody (a focus on diatonic modal scales, not just pentaphony) and in narrative structure. Not only metal music, but also bands like Kraftwerk and Dead Can Dance, joined into this classical orientation.

From popular music, neoclassical music merges granting it a... higher direction.

I was just being silly; I recognize everything you said, but sometimes I think the whole spiel is taken too far. Like, how many bands in the DLA are really neoclassical? Not too many. Cause of Death is an awesome album, but it's 90% rock. Same with Filosofem; with the exception of Rundgang... , it's rock.

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I'm fond of ANUS's labyrinthine construction. It's fun finding "hidden" pages and whatnot. But it does probably turn off some folks.

[Nightspirit]

Cause of Death is an awesome album, but it's 90% rock.

Can you explain please?

I've always enjoyed the ANUS.com support of this band as "the darkest hand of force since Black Sabbath" (http://www.anus.com/metal/obituary/).

[Dylar]

• the whole "metal=classical" is a big practical joke, and YOU are the punchline

In order to understand the connection between metal and classical, it's necessary to notice that, certainly, metal is a form of popular music, with a rock background. It's foolish to think that after Wagner there was Metal, no. Nonetheless...

There was popular music dominating the entire scene, right? Yes, goofy themes and boring structures. Some people just got enough of that in a few years (Black Sabbath, Robert Fripp, Jethro Tull) and so they took the rock band and its characteristic syncopation, yes, to bring different themes and structures, which couldn't be linked to anything, not even jazz, as would to classical in melody (a focus on diatonic modal scales, not just pentaphony) and in narrative structure. Not only metal music, but also bands like Kraftwerk and Dead Can Dance, joined into this classical orientation.

From popular music, neoclassical music merges granting it a... higher direction.

I was just being silly; I recognize everything you said, but sometimes I think the whole spiel is taken too far. Like, how many bands in the DLA are really neoclassical? Not too many. Cause of Death is an awesome album, but it's 90% rock. Same with Filosofem; with the exception of Rundgang... , it's rock.

In what sense?  Instrumentation is "rock" in the sense that it uses the guitar/bass/drums combo, but construction is phrasal, like ambient or classical.

[Humanicide]

I'll have to agree with Dylar. I don't see how songs from Cause Of Death resemble standard rock music at all.

[Sammaellofi]

I know this argument gets old here, but it's almost always the answer to such questions: Substance comes before Style. 

Music can resemble rock in it's instrumentations and even in phrasing, but the structure and overall goal of the music should be what dictates what type of music it is.  The songs on Cause of Death and Filosofem are usually narative musically and not just repetition of hooks and their lyrical content is certainly not typical of the Eagles.  Filosofem, in fact, other than the fact that the drums keep the rhythm and guitars do the phrasing, is in absolutely no way rock music. 

[Nimbostratus]

Filosofem, in fact, other than the fact that the drums keep the rhythm and guitars do the phrasing, is in absolutely no way rock music. 

Is that alone? I can't understand why Filosofem is considered by some people in the DLA to be a rock-pop sounding... could someone explain?

[istaros]

Probably because it's saccharine, compared to the two albums preceding it. The structures are very basic, yet not so basic as to alienate most people; my guess is that when people refer to is as a "pop" album, they mean that it is easily accessible, especially for a black metal album. Personally, I'd consider it a techno album - if we're going to place that much emphasis on structure over instrumentation, it's clearly got very little of metal in it. The two albums following it, although hated for (let's be honest) being synth-fests, are almost identical to it in structure. It SOUNDS better than the two albums following, but structurally it's an obvious precedent.

[neverwhere]

Filosofem (with the exception of Rundgang) is carried mostly by mood independent of the structure. The dreamy, solemn fuzz is what I listen for in Beholding the Daughters of the Firmament. Its nuanced in its composition, but not neoclassical in my eyes.

Cause of Death is phrasal, sure. But note choice can be bland and tone centers obvious and rock-derived. It's a good death metal album, but not timeless Neoclassical masterpiece.

Only a fraction of the content in the DLA achieves the grandiloquent attributes ANUS ascribes to metal as a whole is what I'm trying to say here, really.

[Conservationist]

Only a fraction of the content in the DLA achieves the grandiloquent attributes ANUS ascribes to metal as a whole

No early hominins were actually human. Somehow they got there. The end of a journey is encoded in its beginning.