It is very important that you don't lapse into this way of thinking.
The minority is dumber.
I am aware of the appeal to majority fallacy. What must be remembered though, is in the context of this phrase, majority does not refer to the major chunk of the human population in general; instead, it refers to the majority of a group one associates with. For example, few Americans who conform to the "majority" care about the fact that more Chinese outnumber them and hold contrary views, because the Chinese are not part of their social group. A member of ANUS is as susceptible to becoming a victim of this error as much as a member of mainstream society. That is why the minority is dumber; it is pretentious enough to feel safe from this mistake, when it is equally vulnerable.
"Oh come on, early Death and Obituary Cannibal Corpse and Deicide is not that complex, and those are mostly bigger names. Plus, I think you'd be shocked to see that a lot of bands that blend metal with other genres like alternative, glam, hiphop, etc. are outsellling those bands. Let's not base this off of what is more popular." Do you mean that all early Deicide, including Legion, is simple? If so, can you play/write something like these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsg7vMVyi78 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5qTnm0Lgp4&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-3N8NRmWo4&feature=related
I could not play that music, but I also could not even play an AC/DC song. I am a vocalist, an expressive one but not a technical one. I do not play any instruments. The level of technicality there is solid, but I would not call those very complex songs in composition, nor would I say they are more technical than what had been explored in metal already.
"I definitely agree that Bathory sounds Wagnerian in many ways, the other bands less overtly so but I can see where you're coming from; I must say though, bands like Queen and Meat Loaf also have some very Wagnerian songs, and yet I would not argue they are metal. Wagnerianism is a component of the metal spirit, but not its entirety; I think a lot of "epic" and power metal bands sound more Wagnerian than black metal. If you hear the song "Gods of War" by Manowar, I think it is very overtly Wagnerian, more obviously so than even Bathory. But there are other ways to be romantic without being Wagnerian, an example being horror; the song Black Sabbath is romantic and metal in a more horrific, fear-driven way, but equally metal. I's the romanticism that counts, not specifically the Wagnerianism in every case."
Wagner's works were much more ambiguous and pessimistic(in the Schopenhauerian sense) than anything Manowar have created: the "good guys" do not always win. Remember that Götterdämmerung ends with the usurpation of the natural order and the destruction of the cosmos.
The good guys do not always win in Manowar. There is the song "Bridge of Death," the tragic downfall of a man who is seduced into Hell by Satan told through the victim's eyes. There is the song "Guyana (Cult of the Damned)" which tells of another tragic downfall, that of the infamous Jonestown cult where hundreds of innocent victims were killed by a false prophet. Numerous Manowar songs deal with wars where who the "good guys" are is debatable; they have sung about wars between the Greeks and the city of Troy, the Native American tribes and white settlers, the Confederates and the Union soldiers in the American Civil War (from both sides), as well as the classic Vikings versus Christian nations. And interesting enough, they have sung Christian music as well; keep in mind they have done Satanic material, too.) They have sung about various struggles as omnicient narrators, and first-hand accounts on both sides, good and evil.
'I don't dislike punk in metal, in fact I love it. I just don't think it's superior to pure metal. I even like pure punk, like the Ramones. Now, I am not a punk though, and I do not share (most) of their ideals even if I like the music. I'm more critical of American hardcore punk than the original English punk bands, though. I do not like how so many thrash bands tried to strip away the leather costumes, and the elements that made heavy metal a vibrant culture. A lot of speed/thrash bands highly influenced by hardcore punk would say "Fuck the leather. Fuck the costumes. Fuck the spikes. We're going out there with street-cred."'
Hold on a second. Did you read all of my other posts? If you had, then you would have seen all of the photographic evidence that I had provided to prove that that was not the case. I'll repost all the links again for you.
I know that plenty of hardcore bands like Discharge dressed in a similar way to metal bands, but keep in mind they are British. I find that Discharge had a larger influence on Satanic and proto-black thrash, and black metal would clearly be the exception of extreme metal where costumes are the norm. Death metal clearly have a less theatrical approach, more influenced by the American hardcore bands; specifically, I mean the ones that mattered and were influential to the scene of bands like Metallica, Megadeth, and Exodus. I think the best example might be early D.R.I., and we could throw Black Flag and Minor Threat in there too. A lot of the early thrash was very theatrical, and it is a documented fact that both Overkill and Slayer abandoned their costumes and make-up out of pressure from the Bay Are scene, probably the most anti-image of them all. That attitude spread across the whole metal scene rapidly; Bobby Blitz has said that looking back he wished he would have kept the costumes for at least a while longer, because he put a lot of effort into and had much fun with them; however, he claimed that the Bay Area scene were harassing bands that painted their faces. The attitude spread from East to West coast very quickly, and by now it is the dominating outlook in thrash, death, and grindcore. It was an attitude that can be traced to the American punk and hardcore scene, and I emphasize American. It is an attitude that created more posing than it intended to destroy; have you ever read Gary Holt's recent confession of being a huge Ratt and Motley Crue fan from the start, but he had to secretly listen to them out of fear of being literally assaulted? Did you know Paul Baloff has been reported to have harassed King Diamond and his management? Yes, King Diamond, not anything near glam, but he painted his face. It is around this time that a significant portion of the metal community lost the romantic and Wagnerian (in other words, the real true metal) spirit at the hand of Americanized punk. And believe me, it carried into extreme metal, especially thrash and death metal where it is common to honor a man like Paul Baloff as an influential godfather.
And no, a few spikes isn't enough.