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Pure Metal and ANUS

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 10:58:12 PM
At a glance, all I noticed is that the OP failed to grasp the architectural difference between metal and rock.

I think you associate rock too much with verse-chorus.  A lot of progressive rock and experimental rock does not follow this format, while a lot of death metal is verse-chorus.  What separates metal from other types of rock is the texture and riffing style; it is how it sounds.

So then death metal = The Beatles, and rock music is actually metal.
/quits life

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 11:32:36 PM
At a glance, all I noticed is that the OP failed to grasp the architectural difference between metal and rock.

I think you associate rock too much with verse-chorus.  A lot of progressive rock and experimental rock does not follow this format, while a lot of death metal is verse-chorus.  What separates metal from other types of rock is the texture and riffing style; it is how it sounds.

So then death metal = The Beatles, and rock music is actually metal.
/quits life

No.  The Beatles do not have the texture of a metal band.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 15, 2010, 12:22:20 AM

The minority is dumber.
It is very important that you don't lapse into this way of thinking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

"Oh come on, early Death and Obituary Cannibal Corpse and Deicide is not that complex, and those are mostly bigger names.  Plus, I think you'd be shocked to see that a lot of bands that blend metal with other genres like alternative, glam, hiphop, etc. are outsellling those bands.  Let's not base this off of what is more popular." Do you mean that all early Deicide, including Legion, is simple? If so, can you play/write something like these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsg7vMVyi78 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5qTnm0Lgp4&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-3N8NRmWo4&feature=related

"I definitely agree that Bathory sounds Wagnerian in many ways, the other bands less overtly so but I can see where you're coming from; I must say though, bands like Queen and Meat Loaf also have some very Wagnerian songs, and yet I would not argue they are metal.  Wagnerianism is a component of the metal spirit, but not its entirety; I think a lot of "epic" and power metal bands sound more Wagnerian than black metal.  If you hear the song "Gods of War" by Manowar, I think it is very overtly Wagnerian, more obviously so than even Bathory.  But there are other ways to be romantic without being Wagnerian, an example being horror; the song Black Sabbath is romantic and metal in a more horrific, fear-driven way, but equally metal.  I's the romanticism that counts, not specifically the Wagnerianism in every case."
Wagner's works were much more ambiguous and pessimistic(in the Schopenhauerian sense) than anything Manowar have created: the "good guys" do not always win. Remember that Götterdämmerung ends with the usurpation of the natural order and the destruction of the cosmos.

'I don't dislike punk in metal, in fact I love it.  I just don't think it's superior to pure metal.  I even like pure punk, like the Ramones.  Now, I am not a punk though, and I do not share (most) of their ideals even if I like the music.  I'm more critical of American hardcore punk than the original English punk bands, though.  I do not like how so many thrash bands tried to strip away the leather costumes, and the elements that made heavy metal a vibrant culture.  A lot of speed/thrash bands highly influenced by hardcore punk would say "Fuck the leather. Fuck the costumes. Fuck the spikes.  We're going out there with street-cred."'

Hold on a second. Did you read all of my other posts? If you had, then you would have seen all of the photographic evidence that I had provided to prove that that was not the case. I'll repost all the links again for you.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv303/chique79/Best%2520Band/discharge.jpg&imgrefurl=http://s694.photobucket.com/albums/vv303/chique79/Best%2520Band/%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3Ddischarge.jpg%26sort%3Dascending&usg=__wq69GsxaqRZsQL2fEO6DS_zKl4o=&h=352&w=300&sz=19&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=sw0LvBSsEMq91M:&tbnh=133&tbnw=119&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDischarge%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1255%26bih%3D603%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=647&ei=TnBlTIeYC4L78Aao5cGuCA&oei=TnBlTIeYC4L78Aao5cGuCA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&tx=45&ty=58
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.eurojo5.com/number_3/imatges/wattie_the_exploited.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.eurojo5.com/number_3/Dossier/Heute/Girona/estils_musicals_ang.htm&usg=__uqn_8BhGZjhyhQPgtzw3XTOMgKQ=&h=630&w=645&sz=30&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=wPNE1i5OjqglwM:&tbnh=145&tbnw=151&prev=/images%3Fq%3DThe%2BExploited%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1255%26bih%3D603%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=378&vpy=105&dur=536&hovh=222&hovw=227&tx=113&ty=59&ei=iHBlTN_hHoP-8Aakr9jACA&oei=iHBlTN_hHoP-8Aakr9jACA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thegauntlet.com/photos/hellhammer.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thegauntlet.com/article/1225/15532/Top-10-Swiss-Metal-Bands.html&h=293&w=400&sz=19&tbnid=H6Txd5sV7SyZ6M:&tbnh=91&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHellhammer&usg=__NaYTMTX9srFvbZTYDTtqbvncnJA=&sa=X&ei=n3BlTM-DD4P_8AaTvZSfCQ&ved=0CD4Q9QEwCAhttp://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_uB-0D-gV8mY/RyJkE8NJs2I/AAAAAAAAE8A/aClUVDJ9eKA/s400/gbh&imgrefurl=http://thep5.blogspot.com/2007/10/gbh-give-me-fire.html&usg=__okjsA46GexBeVG9NXJ2-Q4LO8w8=&h=278&w=280&sz=22&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=D9RjQZeO00wpVM:&tbnh=140&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3DG.B.H.%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1255%26bih%3D603%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=326&ei=hpRlTJ6lJ4OB8gaOpvC-CA&oei=hpRlTJ6lJ4OB8gaOpvC-CA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&tx=74&ty=61
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/5040/destruction005003xd6.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.myspace.com/realschmier&usg=__W8xTKnxT-29Tx9hbD_SW5UD35_E=&h=375&w=500&sz=46&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=khVm-6su3HGCsM:&tbnh=133&tbnw=190&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDestruction%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1255%26bih%3D603%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=670&vpy=302&dur=699&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=146&ty=120&ei=FpVlTOK4N8L48AaY3_XKCA&oei=FpVlTOK4N8L48AaY3_XKCA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:16,s:0
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lunarhypnosis.5u.com/beherit2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://lunarhypnosis.5u.com/beherit.htm&usg=__yC3X4IRpk7CnrAvaz6Z26_dMcAw=&h=227&w=307&sz=17&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=ilHHvQrDR-EBzM:&tbnh=141&tbnw=168&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBeherit%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1255%26bih%3D603%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=280&vpy=270&dur=1609&hovh=181&hovw=245&tx=157&ty=87&ei=VJVlTPvREsGB8gbHg_C2CA&oei=VJVlTPvREsGB8gbHg_C2CA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0
 http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wallpapers8.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/metallica1983.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.wallpapers8.com/page/44&usg=__bmkutPZNQd2INOBs98PxaojQtv8=&h=2080&w=1504&sz=542&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=aR0aiNHw465AyM:&tbnh=146&tbnw=106&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMetallica%2B1983%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DJFL%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1255%26bih%3D603%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=342&vpy=48&dur=1070&hovh=264&hovw=191&tx=132&ty=71&ei=SJxlTLCiH8H78Aa9pMG1CA&oei=SJxlTLCiH8H78Aa9pMG1CA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.metal-rules.com/interviews/images/Kreator-pic3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.metal-rules.com/interviews/Kreator.htm&usg=__c5JToBkE7sz1vcFCS_LiidZcS3E=&h=303&w=300&sz=22&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=rLiGV4P9z2VndM:&tbnh=141&tbnw=139&prev=/images%3Fq%3DKreator%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D619%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=908&vpy=286&dur=2277&hovh=226&hovw=223&tx=120&ty=107&ei=q7FlTMpcwffwBq_k0ckI&oei=q7FlTMpcwffwBq_k0ckI&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:19,s:0
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://racketmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/amebix_0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://racketmag.com/interviews/amebix-interview/&usg=__8EqR9JRzKm3NTqtMTZ1ODBgtmQg=&h=407&w=600&sz=214&hl=en&start=20&tbnid=1ATKSrQXOduSgM:&tbnh=143&tbnw=201&prev=/images%3Fq%3DAmebix%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D619%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C323&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=139&vpy=307&dur=409&hovh=185&hovw=273&tx=215&ty=79&ei=3LJlTKf9GIH68Ab1-fiHCA&oei=0rJlTJPmGsH78AbqorG1CA&esq=2&page=2&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:20&biw=1280&bih=619
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bassmiddletreble.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/slayer.jpg&imgrefurl=http://bassmiddletreble.wordpress.com/2008/04/29/a-change-in-music-a-shift-in-identity/&usg=__ElHspQ_01Zi5huXlwPRruxGLb5k=&h=284&w=450&sz=46&hl=en&start=56&tbnid=Ync2S3XE58jHMM:&tbnh=117&tbnw=185&prev=/images%3Fq%3DSlayer%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D619%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C1441&um=1&itbs=1&ei=aLNlTLmiEMP98AbgtOWSCA&iact=hc&vpx=447&vpy=200&dur=730&hovh=153&hovw=243&tx=208&ty=65&oei=CrNlTISvLcGB8gbHg_C2CA&esq=10&page=4&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:56&biw=1280&bih=619
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.metalteamuk.net/photos/aversesefira/aversesefira3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.metalteamuk.net/photos-aversesefira.htm&usg=__-Tta4fFtVcXiyQWE1oDE6t34Dmw=&h=750&w=500&sz=190&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=YGFv1kNlSj8H7M:&tbnh=145&tbnw=95&prev=/images%3Fq%3DAverse%2BSefira%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D619%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C76&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=632&vpy=269&dur=1343&hovh=275&hovw=183&tx=129&ty=175&ei=xbNlTJRzw7zyBs-VzK8I&oei=sbNlTM-aGcH38Aax5NHJCA&esq=3&page=1&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:16,s:0&biw=1280&bih=619
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc161/Sigrid_Lamia/mayhem.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bandography.9f.com/PerYngveOhlin.html&usg=__kzEfT4S9bKGr10k-5khwOxPSBVU=&h=300&w=480&sz=18&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=Al1b0okHqDN5uM:&tbnh=144&tbnw=224&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMayhem%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D619%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=147&vpy=275&dur=350&hovh=156&hovw=250&tx=204&ty=93&ei=5bNlTKqFOsP78Ab3kIDNCA&oei=5bNlTKqFOsP78Ab3kIDNCA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.blather.net/snackboxdiaries/archives/morbidangel.jpg&imgrefurl=http://lmaclean.ca/LisaMacLean/nfblog/%3Fp%3D74&usg=__hTBtg6BWh6FMiB9dRcfeI9wtkMg=&h=300&w=291&sz=15&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=iXkr2-JT0VuQqM:&tbnh=144&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMorbid%2BAngel%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DQrM%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D619%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=136&vpy=109&dur=496&hovh=153&hovw=149&tx=139&ty=87&ei=iLRlTIqMBMT68Aagy5TPCA&oei=iLRlTIqMBMT68Aagy5TPCA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 15, 2010, 12:40:39 AM
The first picture is of Discharge, a British hardcore punk band that was a formative influence on all of the more extreme forms of metal. Notice what they are wearing?

The second picture is of Wattie Buchan of The Exploited, another British hardcore band.

The third picture depicts Hellhammer. Take note of their outfit.

The fourth is Destruction, a German speed/thrash band.

You know who is represented by the fifth picture. Notice what Kirk is wearing.

The sixth is Kreator, another German speed/thrash band.

The seventh is Amebix, a British crustcore band.

The eighth band should already be familiar to you. Remember that they were heavily influenced by hardcore punk.

The ninth picture shows Jeff Tandy from Averse Sefira, a forum favorite.

The tenth picture is of the notorious Mayhem, featuring Dead and Euronymous.

And the eleventh is, of course, the classic lineup of Morbid Angel.


Have you noticed a pattern? It seems that not only was the spikes and leather attire of the NWOBHM groups also an identifying trait of the British hardcore punk movement, but that it has also remained a perennial trait of the "extreme" metal genre as a whole, even those influenced by the aesthetically streamlined American hardcore scene.


Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 15, 2010, 02:37:20 PM
"Night of the Demon:" 50% goofball, 50% genius, 100% troll.  He gives himself away, every now and then, by being just a little too comfortable and skillful w/ language.  I think he might be a regular like a Conservationist or a Devamitra, too.

In any event, I enjoyed reading this thread.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 15, 2010, 10:33:12 PM

The minority is dumber.
It is very important that you don't lapse into this way of thinking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

I am aware of the appeal to majority fallacy.  What must be remembered though, is in the context of this phrase, majority does not refer to the major chunk of the human population in general; instead, it refers to the majority of a group one associates with. For example, few Americans who conform to the "majority" care about the fact that more Chinese outnumber them and hold contrary views, because the Chinese are not part of their social group. A member of ANUS is as susceptible to becoming a victim of this error as much as a member of mainstream society.  That is why the minority is dumber; it is pretentious enough to feel safe from this mistake, when it is equally vulnerable.

Quote
"Oh come on, early Death and Obituary Cannibal Corpse and Deicide is not that complex, and those are mostly bigger names.  Plus, I think you'd be shocked to see that a lot of bands that blend metal with other genres like alternative, glam, hiphop, etc. are outsellling those bands.  Let's not base this off of what is more popular." Do you mean that all early Deicide, including Legion, is simple? If so, can you play/write something like these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsg7vMVyi78 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5qTnm0Lgp4&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-3N8NRmWo4&feature=related

I could not play that music, but I also could not even play an AC/DC song.  I am a vocalist, an expressive one but not a technical one.  I do not play any instruments.  The level of technicality there is solid, but I would not call those very complex songs in composition, nor would I say they are more technical than what had been explored in metal already.

Quote
"I definitely agree that Bathory sounds Wagnerian in many ways, the other bands less overtly so but I can see where you're coming from; I must say though, bands like Queen and Meat Loaf also have some very Wagnerian songs, and yet I would not argue they are metal.  Wagnerianism is a component of the metal spirit, but not its entirety; I think a lot of "epic" and power metal bands sound more Wagnerian than black metal.  If you hear the song "Gods of War" by Manowar, I think it is very overtly Wagnerian, more obviously so than even Bathory.  But there are other ways to be romantic without being Wagnerian, an example being horror; the song Black Sabbath is romantic and metal in a more horrific, fear-driven way, but equally metal.  I's the romanticism that counts, not specifically the Wagnerianism in every case."
Wagner's works were much more ambiguous and pessimistic(in the Schopenhauerian sense) than anything Manowar have created: the "good guys" do not always win. Remember that Götterdämmerung ends with the usurpation of the natural order and the destruction of the cosmos.

The good guys do not always win in Manowar.  There is the song "Bridge of Death," the tragic downfall of a man who is seduced into Hell by Satan told through the victim's eyes.  There is the song "Guyana (Cult of the Damned)" which tells of another tragic downfall, that of the infamous Jonestown cult where hundreds of innocent victims were killed by a false prophet.  Numerous Manowar songs deal with wars where who the "good guys" are is debatable; they have sung about wars between the Greeks and the city of Troy, the Native American tribes and white settlers, the Confederates and the Union soldiers in the American Civil War (from both sides), as well as the classic Vikings versus Christian nations.  And interesting enough, they have sung Christian music as well; keep in mind they have done Satanic material, too.)  They have sung about various struggles as omnicient narrators, and first-hand accounts on both sides, good and evil.

Quote
'I don't dislike punk in metal, in fact I love it.  I just don't think it's superior to pure metal.  I even like pure punk, like the Ramones.  Now, I am not a punk though, and I do not share (most) of their ideals even if I like the music.  I'm more critical of American hardcore punk than the original English punk bands, though.  I do not like how so many thrash bands tried to strip away the leather costumes, and the elements that made heavy metal a vibrant culture.  A lot of speed/thrash bands highly influenced by hardcore punk would say "Fuck the leather. Fuck the costumes. Fuck the spikes.  We're going out there with street-cred."'

Hold on a second. Did you read all of my other posts? If you had, then you would have seen all of the photographic evidence that I had provided to prove that that was not the case. I'll repost all the links again for you.

I know that plenty of hardcore bands like Discharge dressed in a similar way to metal bands, but keep in mind they are British.  I find that Discharge had a larger influence on Satanic and proto-black thrash, and black metal would clearly be the exception of extreme metal where costumes are the norm.  Death metal clearly have a less theatrical approach, more influenced by the American hardcore bands; specifically, I mean the ones that mattered and were influential to the scene of bands like Metallica, Megadeth, and Exodus.  I think the best example might be early D.R.I., and we could throw Black Flag and Minor Threat in there too.  A lot of the early thrash was very theatrical, and it is a documented fact that both Overkill and Slayer abandoned their costumes and make-up out of pressure from the Bay Are scene, probably the most anti-image of them all.  That attitude spread across the whole metal scene rapidly; Bobby Blitz has said that looking back he wished he would have kept the costumes for at least a while longer, because he put a lot of effort into and had much fun with them; however, he claimed that the Bay Area scene were harassing bands that painted their faces.  The attitude spread from East to West coast very quickly, and by now it is the dominating outlook in thrash, death, and grindcore.  It was an attitude that can be traced to the American punk and hardcore scene, and I emphasize American.  It is an attitude that created more posing than it intended to destroy; have you ever read Gary Holt's recent confession of being a huge Ratt and Motley Crue fan from the start, but he had to secretly listen to them out of fear of being literally assaulted?  Did you know Paul Baloff has been reported to have harassed King Diamond and his management?  Yes, King Diamond, not anything near glam, but he painted his face.  It is around this time that a significant portion of the metal community lost the romantic and Wagnerian (in other words, the real true metal) spirit at the hand of Americanized punk.  And believe me, it carried into extreme metal, especially thrash and death metal where it is common to honor a man like Paul Baloff as an influential godfather.

And no, a few spikes isn't enough.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 15, 2010, 10:41:56 PM
"Night of the Demon:" 50% goofball, 50% genius, 100% troll.  He gives himself away, every now and then, by being just a little too comfortable and skillful w/ language.  I think he might be a regular like a Conservationist or a Devamitra, too.

In any event, I enjoyed reading this thread.

I suppose I'm flattered in a way, but do you honestly think ANUS is the only place where people have decent language skills?  I don't mean to take a shot below the belt, but while quoting a lot of you guys I saw a disturbing level of red dotted-lines under the big words.

I'm a teenage Manowar fan and metalhead in general, quite into a good deal of rock music period.  I've never used this site before this thread except some lurking.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 15, 2010, 10:48:45 PM
There are a lot of Europeans here who will spell things the (correct) English way, which most spell-checkers disagree with (primarily because Windows/Apple are American companies).

Your points about American Hardcore aren't fully justified, I fear, primarily because much of the influence for American Extreme Metal bands came from Europe (Bathory, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost, Mercyful Fate, etc.)

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 15, 2010, 11:04:14 PM
There are a lot of Europeans here who will spell things the (correct) English way, which most spell-checkers disagree with (primarily because Windows/Apple are American companies).

I wasn't referring to that, but I don't want to be a prick so I'll drop it now.

Quote
Your points about American Hardcore aren't fully justified, I fear, primarily because much of the influence for American Extreme Metal bands came from Europe (Bathory, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost, Mercyful Fate, etc.)

Mostly black metal, which I dealt with already as the exception to the thrash/death/grind aesthetic of extreme metal.  Being overseas, a lot of times it was harder to even know what those bands looked like, also.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 15, 2010, 11:27:08 PM
I suppose I'm flattered in a way, but do you honestly think ANUS is the only place where people have decent language skills? 

no no, I'm saying your posts are an odd mixture genius and goofiness (I guess is the best way I can put it), so it seemed like you might be putting the "goofiness" on.  but, I guess I'll take you at your word.  like I said, I've enjoyed the thread.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 15, 2010, 11:42:13 PM
You're one hell of a teenager then. This topic has been quite interesting.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 15, 2010, 11:50:15 PM
Quote
Angel Witch- Angel Witch // Historically significant and pretty solid, not as fun as Iron Maiden
Venom- Welcome to Hell // Historically significant but kinda sucks
I have to agree with these descriptions.  I'd also add:
Demon - Taking the World by Storm // This album is pretty weak, especially considering it was released in 89.  I actually had difficulty listening to the thing the whole way through.  The best summary I can give would be generic speed metal meets Europe.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 16, 2010, 12:14:21 AM
Quote
Angel Witch- Angel Witch // Historically significant and pretty solid, not as fun as Iron Maiden
Venom- Welcome to Hell // Historically significant but kinda sucks
I have to agree with these descriptions.  I'd also add:
Demon - Taking the World by Storm // This album is pretty weak, especially considering it was released in 89.  I actually had difficulty listening to the thing the whole way through.  The best summary I can give would be generic speed metal meets Europe.

Hey man, I really appreciate that you took the time to listen to that music.  It shows some real commitment to taking this topic seriously, and I think it will help us in understanding each other.

These differences in opinion is where the subjectivity of quality comes in.  For example, what I like about that Demon album is that it touched me like no other record as a statement about war and human conflict.  The date of '89 to me aids in the merit of the work, as it is very much a Cold War album.  The song Remembrance Day to me is a masterpiece, the highlight of the album, that captures the bittersweet feeling you would expect humans to feel when honoring dead soldiers on memorial day; where do we draw the line between honoring the fallen and romanticizing useless conflicts?  Now, I can't speak for you but it might be that the music never made that connection with your outlook.  And that is fine, but what that brings us to is the issue that some members accused me of not understanding extreme metal because it is more complex than traditional styled metal, but in actuality I think we are both missing certain things in each others' music.  I sort of see the burden of proof being on ANUS, since the statements made by them against bands and styles I like are on the offensive, whereas I am on the defensive; I have no desire to make the claim of extreme metal being inferior to heavy metal (equal, would be more like it), although my preference is for heavy.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 16, 2010, 01:05:15 AM
You guys ever throw a record on at your house and just start banging your head? and then someone walks in on your flailing around in the room?

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 16, 2010, 01:57:20 AM
I know I do.