Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Why presentation is important

Why presentation is important
September 29, 2010, 10:12:46 PM
I was listening to Infester earlier this afternoon, when an intrusive, sad thought entered my mind. To The Depths... In Degradation, their only studio album to my knowledge, was an intellectually stimulating, brilliantly structured, and undeniably "metal-in-spirit" work of art. It speaks to my darkest primordial instincts, titillating the urges that Western culture has forced me to repress, awakening a viciousness that most modern men lack. There's just one problem:

It sounds like total shit.

Despite my admitted long time spent tweaking the bands of my stereo's equalizer, I can barely make out what is going on in some of the guitar riffs. I have an affinity for atonality and a long history of listening to demo-level bands just crowning from the womb of obscurity. I would have tolerated this if it were a demo, but it's not. I've tried to shake this for a long time and make excuses for bands whose album production is sub-par, but there's just no reason to it. Why would you want a poorly represented piece of music to be your final product?

In addition, upon close listening, mistakes are present in the performance of the guitars and drums. A misplaced powerchord sloppily adjusted, the drummer's inability to maintain a consistent blast, causing slight fluctuations in tempo. Really?

This album was recorded in a studio. As such, all the tools to properly mix this album and give it the sound it deserves were both present and ignored. On top of that, a lack of discipline in musicianship takes away from the "tightness" that makes most good death metal albums shine.

It's time to stop tolerating shit production, even if the music shines with the complexity, spirit, and concept that Infester COULD have unleashed. A common PC and some "liberated" software is all it really takes nowadays to properly mix and produce music. I've done it. No, it wasn't Infester, nor was I vain enough to try to pass it off as a release.

It's time for bands to stop making their guitar tones deliberately ugly, practice until their sound is immaculate, settle for nothing but the best they can possibly do, and stop fooling themselves into thinking that a harsh, ugly, sound is any purer in intent than a well produced, digitally enhanced masterpiece of studio mixing.

Metal needs to evolve, and in doing so, understand two fundamental things: it should never be an artist's goal to remain underground, and "slick" production sould never be a compromise. It should add to what is already there and then some.

Death to the unter-ground

Re: Why presentation is important
September 29, 2010, 10:31:16 PM
Why are you comparing modern metal techniques to an old one and one band?


You're kind of over thinking the room here.
Lettin' nillas know.

I hope our aryan overlords will emerge form their l secret base below antartica and wipe all of those under 500 of IQ And don't have the ability to mindtravel into the Xerces Galaxy.

Re: Why presentation is important
September 29, 2010, 11:00:02 PM
I must agree on Infester-- I have tried to listen to this album several times, but the production is simply too bad to tolerate, despite what seem to be interesting musical ideas.
 
I wish I could hear what they are playing.

"A Higher Art of Immutable Beauty" it is not.  I suppose their rationale would be that such an art must transcend the limitations brought on by our worldly tastes-- that a truly "higher art of immutable beauty" must be hideously ugly, and inaccessible to the majority in order to challenge our perception and communicate beyond established notions of 'art' and 'beauty'.  But the problem is that Infester falls victim to another misplaced notion of beauty: it doesn't have to be wholly incomprehensible in order to be truly and divinely beautiful.  The ugly presentation is absolutely what holds this down, bringing me entirely out of what would conceivably be an incredible experience.

Re: Why presentation is important
September 30, 2010, 05:44:48 PM
DISAGREE big time.  That album sounds exactly like it should, as does In the Nightside Eclipse, Remains of a Ruined, Dead, Cursed Soul, Det Frysende Nordiriket, etc. etc.  Death to the mainstream, and spending a month writing your album in a goddamned studio.
CLIMB MOUNTAINS FOR SATAN

Re: Why presentation is important
September 30, 2010, 06:11:26 PM
As well I hear everything perfectly fine in the album. You want to hear "worse" try Magus and then tell me how harsh that is. And I agree with that point, it is exactly as it should have been recorded, capturing the moment.

Re: Why presentation is important
September 30, 2010, 08:48:36 PM
DISAGREE big time.  That album sounds exactly like it should, as does In the Nightside Eclipse, Remains of a Ruined, Dead, Cursed Soul, Det Frysende Nordiriket, etc. etc.  Death to the mainstream, and spending a month writing your album in a goddamned studio.
As well I hear everything perfectly fine in the album. You want to hear "worse" try Magus and then tell me how harsh that is. And I agree with that point, it is exactly as it should have been recorded, capturing the moment.
I'm going to echo these comments by reminding the op that the album art serves as a perfect indication of what the lp sounds like; you should have known what you were getting yourself into.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_H9F1DlCd0bY/Son4ybgnraI/AAAAAAAAITQ/OorUVGjbaWA/s400/Cover%2BDeath%2BMetal.&imgrefurl=http://thelivingdoorway.blogspot.com/2010/04/infester-to-depthsin-degradation-1994.html&usg=__VMvZ7y-acGiol6VJ0ZkPwa8M6Ew=&h=391&w=400&sz=51&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=dlnREMyJjkXkhM:&tbnh=156&tbnw=159&prev=/images%3Fq%3DInfester%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D619%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=1020&vpy=250&dur=240&hovh=156&hovw=160&tx=169&ty=95&ei=T_ekTK_iFYT48AaTlJyIAg&oei=T_ekTK_iFYT48AaTlJyIAg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:0
Let us go beyond "you" and "me"! Feel cosmically!
   
    Friedrich Nietzsche

Re: Why presentation is important
October 01, 2010, 12:08:33 AM
I put an Infester song on the Devolved mix: http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/index.php/topic,8806.0.html

To make it a bit clearer, I just jacked up the mids as far as i can remember. Sounded pretty good. On the original mix, you can clearly hear the melody of the riffs and there's no bassy blowout when you turn up the volume, which makes it a pretty crucial production job as far as death metal goes.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 01, 2010, 12:37:17 AM
I hear nothing wrong with the production on To the Depths... I honestly can make out everything fine.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 01, 2010, 12:33:37 PM
In closing...Ipod headphones betray your listening experience.
Lettin' nillas know.

I hope our aryan overlords will emerge form their l secret base below antartica and wipe all of those under 500 of IQ And don't have the ability to mindtravel into the Xerces Galaxy.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 03, 2010, 11:50:20 PM
Wolfgang, you have concluded that I am just a hipster barely dabbling into the death metal genre. You are wrong in that presumption. I've been listening to this CD since 2005 after ordering it from Moribund on a 100-Watt receiver with 2 large, reasonably bartered house speakers. It's rare that I ever listen to music on headphones these days because I don't have a computer at home. I post on friend's computers or library express terminals.

From what I can remember, jacking up the mids did nothing to fix the problem of incomprehensible riffs.

Anyway, my point was that I'm sure Infester would have been a DAMN good listening experience live. It's just not a very well mixed album. No excuses.

I opened up this thread to begin a dialog about presentation itself. Presentation is important because it is a front for the substance of any work of art. It's important because any good idea is ruined by poor presentation. If you're trying to sell a house, you tell the squatters to hit the road, decorate the place a little bit, provide some hors d'oeuvres, etc. Spruce it up a little bit.

What I'm saying is this. The only purpose of rejecting immediate appearance is to put it in its place, which is small. Doing away with it altogether is an overreaction. Sure that house might be in a great neighborhood, have the best subflooring job in the city with state of the art energy efficient windows. But if there's a junkie in the corner shooting up then nobody's going to stay around for the briefing. Am I getting my point across?

DISAGREE big time.  That album sounds exactly like it should, as does In the Nightside Eclipse, Remains of a Ruined, Dead, Cursed Soul, Det Frysende Nordiriket, etc. etc.  Death to the mainstream, and spending a month writing your album in a goddamned studio.
When did I say anything about the mainstream? Is sounding "raw" what it takes to not be mainstream? Please inform me what standards must be abided by before it can be considered non-mainstream? That said, I think In The Nightside Eclipse has a beautiful, unique production. One of my favorite. They did a good job. 

I'm not going to split hairs with you about Ildjarn and Mutiilation, however because I believe a certain degree of noiseyness adds a tremendous amount to those bands' works. Death metal lacks such simplicity and consequent ambience. For the same reason, I think that "rawness" was important for bands like Darkthrone, Discharge, Beherit, and Burzum to some extent.

Why do we want to keep metal obscure? Why do we want as few people to hear about it as possible? Let as many people hear it as possible. Art is communication, therefore success as an artist should have at least something to do with the amount of people who are communicated to, no?

I'm not proposing in any way that bands compromise ANY part of their music or what makes it genius. Just that production is overseen with a little bit more concern for what sounds good. What "works". Infester had some damn good ideas and they were demonstrated poorly. End of story.

I will not tolerate being crucified for sharing this belief. I am not a hipster, and have never owned an ipod or any other apple product for that matter. I am not mainstream because I choose not to tolerate a poor job in the studio NO MATTER HOW GOOD THE MUSIC ITSELF IS! If it sounds like shit, be big enough to admit it. Metal has a lot of possible directions to go. We can do better than that.










Re: Why presentation is important
October 03, 2010, 11:58:31 PM
It's time for bands to stop making their guitar tones deliberately ugly
Haha, ok I'll admit you had me going until that point.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 12:20:13 AM
Call me crazy.....I don't mind Infester.....Maybe if they added some "Gravity Blasts" they would have sounded more "Brewtul"......If you can't sense my sarcasm I'll point it out!
I will slash and burn and salt the earth so that nothing will grow.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 03:07:20 AM
I don't know, man. I mean, I understand were you're comming from, but you kinda have to consider some things. Like, for example, the following band:

VENOM

That's fucking Black Metal right there for you. Yes, I know "ppl said that they weren't that great musicians lol!". So what? Here's what will REALLY fuck up your mind, assuming you actualy LIKE music: maybe they actualy WERE AND ARE good fucking musicians, you know?

I'm sorry your apathetic speech patterns confuse me.....Say again?
I will slash and burn and salt the earth so that nothing will grow.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 03:33:22 AM
I'm asking for you to put your responses in a cogent, semi-intelligent, non metal-core way. You call it "Decadence" but I don't think you fully understand the definition.

If you like Venom, great.......I would have preferred you to just say that. Venom was mediocre. They used satanic imagery as a means to procure money. I like Death Metal and Grindcore with a little Black Metal and Mozart thrown in.

Too many "Man's" and "You know's" make yourself sound......Unintelligent. This is by no means a slight against you or your status as a redneck. I'm an INTJ and I like to correct people in bad speech. Don't take it personal.....man, lol, you know?

In summation, this subject is MORE than fitting.....WHY PRESENTATION IS IMPORTANT!
I will slash and burn and salt the earth so that nothing will grow.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 03:38:56 AM
I'm sorry your apathetic speech patterns confuse me.....

Exactly. Why do you think that is? *cough cough* -decadence- *cough*

Say again?

Do you enjoy listening to blathering apathetic malfunctioning parrots? You can get a parrot, you know a really cool one, "widt culurs" lol and you can instruct it to have the following dialog with you, to your ear (the parrot is on your shoulder, of course. You are ship captain or you are about to kill the ship captain like all the rest of the people who have actualy taken the time to find parrots and instruct them some weird fucking dialog) :

YOU: "Say again?"

PARROT: "Venom are and were good musicians, think about it"

YOU: "WHAAAAAAT? SAY AGAIN?"

PARROT: "Venom are and were good musicians, think about it. (Parrot Talk, babble babble)

YOU: "WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT? SAY AGAIN?"

PARROT: (Good job captain senility, now you have confused a parrot. The parrot "switches tracks") : "You are going crazy, SQUAAK"

YOU: (You become mad and kill the parrot on your shoulder, you break its neck, drink its blood, and EAT IT BECAUSE YOU ARE HUNGRY AND YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE COOKING ON AN THURSDAY NIGHT) : "Good for nothing parrot. I'll get a macaw next time."

THE END

VENOM RULES

Repetition does not equal clarification, and despite your apparent objections to the idea, your responses are largely redundant. I can almost guarantee that your response to this will follow in similar form, most likely ATTEMPTING to mock the fact that I accused your responses of being redundant, and that I predicted that the nature of your response to my accusations, so I'm not sure why I even made an attempt. But, by the way: obvious troll is obvious. If you're attempting to mimic the average users of this forum, then you're doing a piss-poor job at it, and no amount of gibberish you post in response to that claim will change that.
Classicism in art, royalism in politics, Catholicism in religion