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Why presentation is important

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 04:25:37 AM
I like venom because they prance around in skimpy leather outfits, its all about presentation.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 05:09:00 AM
Repetition does not equal clarification, and despite your apparent objections to the idea, your responses are largely redundant. I can almost guarantee that your response to this will follow in similar form, most likely ATTEMPTING to mock the fact that I accused your responses of being redundant, and that I predicted that the nature of your response to my accusations, so I'm not sure why I even made an attempt. But, by the way: obvious troll is obvious. If you're attempting to mimic the average users of this forum, then you're doing a piss-poor job at it, and no amount of gibberish you post in response to that claim will change that.

Haha, shut up Erosion, you're a bigger Troll than me ; )

I'm not mocking anything. YOU are the one who is starting a hissy-fit over one simple little comment that me, in my "humble" opinion, made, which is the following: yes, I like Venom. Yes, I'm being serious. Now: why the shit-storm?

Get off your high-horse. You sound like you're screaching, and not even in a mediocre way. Which is exactly what you're accusing me of. Why start a shit-storm about it? Oh right, you didn't, because the real issue that started this whole shit-storm in the first place was the fact that I kindly asked that you take the time to consider that a band like Venom could be taken even more seriously.

And lay off the "Troll" epitet, or at least go listen to "Solsagan" like I recommend that you do. That's Finntroll if you don't fucking know it (of course, you do).

I don't really care if you like Venom, there are far worse things to enjoy in the world. I don't like Venom because I don't like them. I don't think all of their fans are drug-addicts, or idiots as you have implied that anyone who doesn't like Venom does. You're calling a notification of taste a shit-storm, and I think that's because you want this conversation to appear as an over-exaggerated outcry of psuedo-elitists against someone who courageously breaks one of their taboos. That's not the case, and it never has been.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 05:17:08 AM
Venom has some great songs, always fun to headbang to and throw on ocasionally.  But they are mediocre, i think their only album that is good front to back is Black Metal, thats it, and the BloodLust single.

Now back to the topic of disscussion here.  I have never heard Infester before, i  just downloaded it to see what all this fuss is about.  It sounds great, i wouldnt even consider this "bad" production.  For me its albums like Forest Poetry i have a hard time with,  that extremely trebly tablesaw sound.  I still recognize the beauty it holds though and i wouldnt cut down Ildjarn for not having some better production. It is what It is.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 05:58:32 AM
Just want to say i finished listening to INFESTER, i enjoyed it all the way through, very memorable.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 06:44:09 AM
Just want to say i finished listening to INFESTER, i enjoyed it all the way through, very memorable.

Infester is awesome. I just never commented on this thread because you can't win with people who are sticklers for production.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 10:29:32 AM
In many ways, Bruamlauthilde does a much better job than Born for Banning ever could. Bravo.

My experience with sound systems is limited to the, cheaper, end of the market so take this with a (assuredly cheap) grain of salt. The speaker cone shapes (read stymies) the audio reproduction, anything that sounds good on a stereo will sound infinitely clearer on a good set of headphones. You'll need to pay close to a $100 (Aus) for quality, but well worth it. I'm never content to judge an album without listening to it through headphones, the volume of musical data that slips by unaccounted via sound system listening* can be phenomenal.

What do you think of the production on pierced from within? curious.

*this linguistic deployment are uncorrect, Dear aspies bathe me in the cleansing alms of your grammatical pabulum.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 01:03:41 PM

My experience with sound systems is limited to the, cheaper, end of the market so take this with a (assuredly cheap) grain of salt. The speaker cone shapes (read stymies) the audio reproduction, anything that sounds good on a stereo will sound infinitely clearer on a good set of headphones. You'll need to pay close to a $100 (Aus) for quality, but well worth it. I'm never content to judge an album without listening to it through headphones, the volume of musical data that slips by unaccounted via sound system listening* can be phenomenal.

What do you think of the production on pierced from within? curious.

Not sure how the we got onto this topic, but I'll just point out that Pierced From Within sounds fine on a shitty system while Breeding The Spawn was made to listen to on a damn fine system, where it comes across as Suffo's best, by a landslide.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 01:08:35 PM
What started as a bad thread with a questionable premise has turned into a fucking Venom debate?

Worst discussion I have seen here in the weeks I've been back. Maybe in the history of man kind. Fuck it.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 03:45:15 PM
The broader point, that everyone but the OP has failed to address, is akin to the point made here:  Selling IN

You people latched onto Infester, specifically, when it was simply an example used by the OP to illustrate his broader point.


Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 03:55:07 PM
Isn't selling in kind of the opposite of what the OP is saying? Selling in is paying more attention to the presentation than to the spirit of the music. I think that's worse than messing up your presentation. I'll take Battles in the North, godawful mix included, over a Satanic Warmaster album any day of the week.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 04:11:33 PM
but deliberately obscuring production IS paying attention to presentation more than the spirit of the music.  The OP is arguing for an honest production/representation.  The mistake is that everyone, including the OP, is assuming they know the motivations of Infester:  was it laziness?  was it deliberate?  In Infester's case, I tend to disagree w/ the OP, it probably was a deliberate touch, and an effective one that syncs up with the spirit of the album.  But the broader point, in my mind, is that a straight forward, honest production is hard to argue against, and it does, in fact, indicate that one is NOT paying attention to the presentation more than the spirit of the music.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 05:44:01 PM
but deliberately obscuring production IS paying attention to presentation more than the spirit of the music.  The OP is arguing for an honest production/representation.  The mistake is that everyone, including the OP, is assuming they know the motivations of Infester:  was it laziness?  was it deliberate?  In Infester's case, I tend to disagree w/ the OP, it probably was a deliberate touch, and an effective one that syncs up with the spirit of the album.  But the broader point, in my mind, is that a straight forward, honest production is hard to argue against, and it does, in fact, indicate that one is NOT paying attention to the presentation more than the spirit of the music.
I don't know the intention of Infester, you are quite right about that. The simple fact is that deliberately obscuring the production was a mistake. I"ll continue:

What do you think of the production on pierced from within? curious.


Masterful, brilliant, and pleasing to the ears, which brings me to my next point.
Just want to say i finished listening to INFESTER, i enjoyed it all the way through, very memorable.

Infester is awesome. I just never commented on this thread because you can't win with people who are sticklers for production.
It first dawned on me that maybe the problem is that it's a matter of personal taste. But I won't settle for that. I tend to believe that there's a generally accepted consensus on what sounds "good" and what sounds "bad". Subsonic rumbles ripping through your subwoofers and high pitched smoke alarms don't sound good. They hurt your ears. It's not pleasing to the sense of hearing. Humans innately have a sense of what they want to hear, regardless of their musical taste. While Forest Poetry is admittedly one of my favorite albums of all time, I do acknowledge that it doesn't appeal to what humans would generally agree upon as a "good" sounding album. I let that slide with bands like Ildjarn, however, because as I pointed out before, the beauty of their music is that it's a message encoded in noise.

That doesn't work with Death Metal. The more complex moving parts a machine has, the more likely it is to break down.

Inanna, I believe you said it was probably a deliberate touch. You might be right about that, but it was a mistake. What I'm saying is, they could have gotten their artistic point across AND THEN SOME with a better, more unique production. They could have made their music stand out, not only with better representation of the instruments (after all, why write complex riffs if you can't hear them in the final mix), but with a unique sound that would make theirs stand out from anything ever done. To me the production on To The Depths... Sounds a lot like Incantation's Onward to Golgotha.

I'll always like Ildjarn, Infester, and Incantation, but as a matter of personal taste, and I know I'm not the only person with this sentiment, I prefer albums that make me glad for every dime I spent on my stereo system. Pierced From Within, Close to a World Below, Obscura, From Wisdom to Hate, all sound beautiful and they give my ears a raging hard boner.

Re: Why presentation is important
October 04, 2010, 05:49:37 PM
It's the same reason that it's a tragedy that Timeghoul never made it to release an album. All I've heard from them is their Tulmultuous Travelings demo and it is one of the best pieces of music I've ever heard. Musically, they blow bands like Infester out of the fucking water, production aside.

How this band never made it further than two demos is a mystery to me, they probably just called it quits. And that's the sad injustice of it all. The quality of the demo doesn't do their music justice. Not by a long shot. It completely ruins it. All you hear is brilliance buried deep in a well of subsonic rumble and poor mixing. Shame.