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Seed of an Idea

Seed of an Idea
September 30, 2010, 11:00:13 PM
This is a rough sketch of an idea that's been forming in my head.  It's nothing radical, and not at all without flaw but I thought I might be able to spark some discussion with it.  Heavy / harsh criticism welcome.

/*Edit 1: After 4 posts
-Keeping Profanatica over Havohej
-Agreed about Demilich, not sure how to fix
-Fallen Angel of Doom seems more primitive to me, but Varathron was sort of a place filler, so I think I'll put Demoncy*/

/*Edit 2: 11 Replies
Category change for death metal
adding Dismember and Infester
Refocusing attention on black metal*/

/*Edit 3: Relistened to Asphyx, forgot how good they are.  Switching them with Infester, who I think are somewhat overrated*/

/*Edit 4: Slight restructuring of the black metal section*/

Quote from: Death Metal
Greatest (synthesis):

       Blessed are the Sick - Morbid Angel

Impending Doom:

   The Rack - Asphyx
   Dawn of Possession - Immolation
   Severed Survival - Autopsy
   Chronicles of the Shadowed Ones - Morpheus Descends
   Journey Into Mystery - Dream Death

Violent / Direct:

   Enjoy the Violence - Massacra
   Altars of Madness - Morbid Angel
   Effigy of the Forgotten - Suffocation
   Piece of Time - Atheist

   Like an Ever-Flowing Stream - Dismember


Chaotic:
   Obscura - Gorguts
   Legion - Deicide

   Final Holocaust - Massacra
   Inbreeding the Anthropophagi - Deeds of Flesh
   Pierced From Within - Suffocation

Contemplative:
   The Red in the Sky is Ours - At the Gates
   Unquestionable Presence - Atheist
   From Wisdom to Hate - Gorguts
   Ritual of Infinity - Morpheus Descends
   Soulside Journey - Darkthrone

Mystical:
   Onward to Golgotha - Incantation
   Sorcery - Kataklysm
   Nespithe - Demilich
   Slumber of Sullen Eyes - Demigod

Nihilistic Hardcore:
   Master - Master
   Horrified - Repulsion
   Horsecore - dead horse
   Mental Funeral - Autopsy
   Schizophrenia - Sepultura

Quote from: Black Metal
Greatest (synthesis):
   Hvis Lyset Tar Oss - Burzum



Decrepit:
   INRI - Sarcofago

   Det Frysende Nordariket - Ildjarn
   The Oath of Black Blood - Beherit
   Remains of Ruined, Dead, Cursed Soul - Mutiilation
   Filosofem - Burzum

Primal:
   Profanatitas De Domonatia - Profanatica
   Ugra Karma - Impaled Nazarene
   Worship Him - Samael
   Fallen Angel of Doom - Blasphemy
   Joined In Darkness - Demoncy

Sublime:
   De Mysteriis Dom. Sathanas - Mayhem

   Pure Holocaust - Immortal   
   Transilvanian Hunger - Darkthrone
   Blood Fire Death - Bathory

Epic / Majestic:
   Dol Guldur - Summoning
   In the Nightside Eclipse - Emperor
   Vikingligr Veldi - Enslaved
   Far Away From the Sun - Sacramentum
   Burzum - Burzum

Ritualistic:
   Drawing Down the Moon - Beherit
   Scarlet Evil Witching Black - Necromantia
   Bathory - Bathory

   Engram - Beherit

   To Mega Therion - Celtic Frost

Traditionalist / Nostalgic:
   Det Som Engang Var - Burzum
   The Celtic Winter - Graveland
   

Re: Seed of an Idea
September 30, 2010, 11:05:49 PM
Hey nice thread. I would swap his majesty at the swamp for, Fallen Angel of Doom or Blood Upon the Altar, under Ritualistic.

Re: Seed of an Idea
October 01, 2010, 03:38:40 AM
It appears that, Sublime and Epic/Majestic BM is my favorite of Black Metal. Also I would add Graveland and Summoning to Epic/Majestic.

Re: Seed of an Idea
October 01, 2010, 03:51:12 AM
Nespithe is far too logical and "removed" to be categorized under chaotic IMO.

PLease kill Spiritual Healing and replace with Soulside Journey.

EDIT: why not put Demillich under contemplative? I think it fits more then perfectly.

Also interesting choice with Ritual of Infinity, I never really thought of it under that kind of scope.

Re: Seed of an Idea
October 01, 2010, 05:00:11 AM
Primitive:
   INRI - Sarcofago
   War Cult Supremacy - Conqueror
   Dethrone the son of god  - Havohej
   Det frysende nordariket - Ildjarn
   The Oath of Black Blood - Beherit

Re: Seed of an Idea
October 01, 2010, 05:34:49 PM
To me, War Cult Supremacy would be "sublime" black metal. It invokes a sense of eternity and the infinite that becomes very clear after many many listens. I don't think that anything on the current list needs to be replaced though, all are total classics, I just think more people should search for that kind of mind set when listening to the album. It's easy to just think of it as standard fare blasphemous/chaotic black metal, but in actuality it is an extrodinaraly intelligent pice of music, totally stunning in it's composition.


Re: Seed of an Idea
October 01, 2010, 05:56:54 PM
Violent / Direct:

Onwards to Golgotha -Incantation

I think Infester should also be mentioned, yet I feel it transcends several of these categories.

Re: Seed of an Idea
October 01, 2010, 07:36:58 PM
To me, War Cult Supremacy would be "sublime" black metal. It invokes a sense of eternity and the infinite that becomes very clear after many many listens. I don't think that anything on the current list needs to be replaced though, all are total classics, I just think more people should search for that kind of mind set when listening to the album. It's easy to just think of it as standard fare blasphemous/chaotic black metal, but in actuality it is an extrodinaraly intelligent pice of music, totally stunning in it's composition.




I dont throw on War Cult Supremacy and think im listening to some low brow music by any means.  I agree with your desciption of the music 100% i just dont get the same feelings from the listed works under Sublime that i do with Primitive.  I would say it is up for interpretation.

Re: Seed of an Idea
October 01, 2010, 09:02:43 PM
Violent / Direct:

Onwards to Golgotha -Incantation

Really? I don't get that at ALL. I find that album to be the closest death metal has ever come to making a work of religious weight and serenity, and the ANUS review's mention of mathematical elements is spot on... the violence is merely a method for an approach to mysticism which has only been matched by early Kataklysm.

Re: Seed of an Idea
October 01, 2010, 09:18:06 PM
Quote from: Death Metal
Greatest (synthesis):

       Blessed are the Sick - Morbid Angel

Impending Doom:

   Mental Funeral - Autopsy
   Onward to Golgotha - Incantation
   Dawn of Possession - Immolation
   Severed Survival - Autopsy
   
Violent / Direct:

   Enjoy the Violence - Massacra
   Altars of Madness - Morbid Angel
   Effigy of the Forgotten - Suffocation
   Cause of Death - Obituary
   Scream Bloody Gore - Death
Chaotic:
   Obscura - Gorguts
   Legion - Deicide


Contemplative:
   The Red in the Sky is Ours - At the Gates
   Soulside Journey - Darkthrone
       
Humorous:
    Horrified - Repulsion
    Reek of Putrefaction - Carcass

Quote from: Black Metal
Greatest (synthesis):
   Hvis Lyset Tar Oss - Burzum



Primitive:
   INRI - Sarcofago
   Profanatitas De Domonatia - Profanatica
   Ugra Karma - Impaled Nazarene

   Det Frysende Nordariket - Ildjarn
   The Oath of Black Blood - Beherit
        Bathory - Bathory
        Joined in Darkness - Demoncy

Sublime:
   Transilvanian Hunger - Darkthrone
   
Epic / Majestic:
   Dol Guldur - Summoning
   In the Nightside Eclipse - Emperor
   Vikingligr Veldi - Enslaved
   Far Away From the Sun - Sacramentum
   The Celtic Winter - Graveland
        Blood, Fire, Death - Bathory

Ritualistic:
   Drawing Down the Moon - Beherit
   Engram - Beherit

[/quote]

My two cents. I tried not to make any additions, except in the cases where only a single band was left in a catagory (I wasn't able to think of any other black metal band that quite caught the religious perspective of the world via darkness, i.e. celebrated the sublime quite like Darkthrone does on Transilvanian Hunger). I also completely deleted bands that I felt merited a category that was not included in the list. Keep in mind that this just me being picky.

Re: Seed of an Idea
October 01, 2010, 11:38:17 PM
Digesting feedback.

Thought: Eliminate "Humorous" category for death metal and replace with two different ones

Mystical:
Onward to Golgotha - Incantation
Sorcery - Kataklysm
Nespithe - Demilich
Slumber of Sullen Eyes - Demigod

Nihilistic Hardcore:
Master - Master
Horrified - Repulsion
Horsecore - dead horse
Mental Funeral - Autopsy
Schizophrenia - Sepultura

I'll have to rearrange the rest of the list some after this change.
Inbreeding the Anthropophagus - Deeds of Flesh could go in Chaotic
Journey Into Mystery - Dream Death could go into the doom category

There should probably be some Swedish Death Metal on the list, but I've never been a fan.  I'd probably go with Like an Ever-flowing Stream in the Violent / Direct category.  Recommendations from a fan would be helpful. 

Re: Seed of an Idea
October 02, 2010, 12:06:14 AM
I like the category split. I find Adramelech's debut better than the Demigod album, and The Mystical Gate of Reincarnation to be better than Sorcery - who cares if it's "only" an EP.

It took me a LONG time to really get into the Swedish style, and I still prefer others - but you've certainly chosen the highlight with Dismember's debut. Therion's Beyond Sanctorum should certainly be included somewhere(contemplative, most likely) - not that it's *really* that style. Another VERY sorely missing album is Torchure's debut, whether in impending doom or contemplative. Necrovore's demo should be in violent/direct for sure - I have yet to hear anything else that carries quite that same sense or level of unbridled violence. Maybe the Asphyx debut as well - it took me a while to really get it, but it's got for good by now.

Like lord.spam, I really like that you had the insight to include Ritual of Infinity in the contemplative section. Personally I think From Wisdom to Hate is Gorguts' worst album by a long shot, but then, this is hardly my list :)

Re: Seed of an Idea
October 02, 2010, 01:43:18 AM
I'm going to stick with Demigod and Sorcery, but I'll definitely give the rest of the suggestions some thought.

I think an ambient section should be added to black metal.

Ambient:
   Electric Doom Synthesis - Beherit
   Atlantean Monument - Lord Wind
   Hardangervidda - Ildjarn

Thinking of changing Graveland's album to Following the Voice of Blood

Re: Seed of an Idea
October 02, 2010, 01:49:56 AM
Those are all excellent albums, but how are they metal? I wouldn't say they don't deserve inclusion as they all have a metal spirit, obviously, but if this is about musical categories in metal proper they seem out of place - to me, ambient black metal suggests stuff like Burzum, Tha-Norr, and even (or especially) Ildjarn, in spite (or because) of its primitivity. If we want to get into ambient music itself there's tons of it that could be added in as well - Kraftwerk, Maeror Tri, and Jaaportit to name three of this place's favorites.

Re: Seed of an Idea
October 02, 2010, 02:01:22 AM
My list:

Quote
Roots:

Black Sabbath - Paranoid
Discharge - Hear Nothing, See Nothing, Say Nothing
Slayer - Show No Mercy
Hellhammer - Apocalyptic Raids
Possessed - Seven Churches
Sepultura - Morbid Visions


Violent/Direct:

Master - Unreleased Demo '85
Bathory - The Return
Sarcofago - INRI
Repulsion - Horrified
Deicide - Legion
Impaled Nazarene - Ugra Karma


Structured Chaos:

Carcass - Symphonies Of Sickness
Morbid Angel - Altars Of Madness
Incantation - Onwards To Golgotha
Atrocity - Todessehnsucht
Suffocation - Effigy Of The Forgotten
Deeds Of Flesh - Path Of The Weakening


Aesthetics:

At The Gates - The Red In The Sky Is Ours
Bolt Thrower - For Victory
Graveland - Carpathian Wolves
Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas
Summoning - Minas Morgul
Immolation - Here In After


Spiritual:

Bathory - Hammerheart
Samael - Worship Him
Asphyx - The Rack
Darkthrone - A Blaze in the Northern Sky
Emperor - In The Nightside Eclipse
Necromantia - Crossing The Fiery Path


Transcendental:

Beherit - Drawing Down the Moon
Burzum - Hvis Lyset Tar Oss
Immortal - Pure Holocaust
Darkthrone - Transilvanian Hunger
Ildjarn - Forest Poetry
Gorguts - Obscura


Synthesis: Beherit - The Oath Of Black Blood