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Metal => Interzone => Topic started by: Reginald Gillette on November 07, 2010, 01:02:55 AM

Title: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Reginald Gillette on November 07, 2010, 01:02:55 AM

Maybe "Only Death is Real" is just tossed about because it's a badass-sounding slogan from a legendary band; it's exclusive, lethal, definite, and pure.  If so, stop me here.

I suspect that the slogan began as that, but it seems certain Hessians have integrated it as a motto for the culture. 

If it is meant as an actual ontological statement, then how is it valid?  Everyone will die, so only death is real? Is only death real because everyone experiences it, in which case only birth would also be real? 

For those of you who have experienced a dead body (no necro jokes!), I trust you'll agree that the 'death'ness was real, intense, illuminating, and struck you with a certain awe.  However, it wasn't real at the expense of all other things.

A more accurate and useful phrase might be, "Death Alone is Certain" (which Stephen Bachelor pulled from Buddhism, I think).  For me, that is more empowering as a goad to action. 

How do YOU interpret/use "Only Death is Real"?
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Cargést on November 07, 2010, 01:35:29 AM
"Death Alone is Certain" is how I interpret it.

Give Hellhammer a break, man.  They're Swiss or some shit.  It's not like English is their first language.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Reginald Gillette on November 07, 2010, 02:10:42 AM
Cargest, HAAA...I'm not busting Hellhammer at all.  Just investigating what the phrase has come to mean!
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Cargést on November 07, 2010, 02:45:40 AM
I think no-one here could take it to mean that the only real (qualify "real"...) thing in existence is death, because there would have to be something real to die, which would require that the statement be changed to "only death and stuff that dies is real".
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Veritas on November 07, 2010, 03:16:01 AM
Only Nothingness is Eternal.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: metal on metal on November 07, 2010, 08:32:55 AM
"The most violent thing of all for us is death which jerks us out of a tenacious obsession with the lastingness of our discontinuous being. We blench at the thought that the separate individuality within us must be suddenly snuffed out... We cannot imagine the transition from one state to another one basically unlike it without picturing the violence done to the being called into existence through discontinuity. Not only do we find in the uneasy transitions of organisms engaged in reproduction the same basic violence which in physical eroticism leaves us gasping, but we also catch the inner meaning of that violence. What does physical eroticism signify if not a violation of the very being of its practitioners? — a violation bordering on death, bordering on murder?

(...)

Eroticism always entails a breaking down of established patterns, the patterns, I repeat, of the regulated social order basic to our discontinuous mode of existence as defined and separate individuals... The stirrings within us have their own fearful excesses; the excesses show which way these stirrings would take us. They are simply a sign to remind us constantly that death, the rupture of the discontinuous individualities to which we cleave in terror, stands there before us more real than life itself."

Georges Bataille
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: MediterraneanSun on November 07, 2010, 11:38:11 PM
Hmmm... I do prefer Sepultura's "A sad image of everything, everything so real Who.. who, who who..."
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Dylar on November 08, 2010, 12:30:01 AM
"Death" is the only universal outcome, and as such has a "reality" unmatched by any other.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Humanicide on November 08, 2010, 06:26:26 AM
"Death" is the only universal outcome, and as such has a "reality" unmatched by any other.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It is the ULTIMATE reality, since everything and everyone will experience it, regardless of what happens during their life.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: metal on metal on November 08, 2010, 08:08:09 AM
everything and everyone will experience it

Hmmm. If there's no afterlife, could anyone truly experience death? A true atheist couldn't experience death, only the unbearable pain preceding it.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Cargést on November 08, 2010, 10:01:43 AM
Perhaps it's better to say "we will observe exterior entities dying".
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Athanasius contra mundum on November 08, 2010, 10:52:38 AM
I dunno man, I just read the phrase, thought the implications were cool, and moved on with life.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: sofiana on November 08, 2010, 11:20:41 AM
TGF explained somewhere what he meant by these words but I don't remember where - in Are you morbid ? or Only Death Is real or in his blog(s) ?


Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: sofiana on November 08, 2010, 11:27:19 AM
A more accurate and useful phrase might be, "Death Alone is Certain" (which Stephen Bachelor pulled from Buddhism, I think).  For me, that is more empowering as a goad to action. 

How do YOU interpret/use "Only Death is Real"?

For me (physical) death is just a door to pass through.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: JewishPhysics on November 10, 2010, 07:51:08 AM
A more accurate and useful phrase might be, "Death Alone is Certain"
That's how I always interpreted the phrase, and I assume how everyone else has.

For me (physical) death is just a door to pass through.
A door to where / what? If you don't mind my asking.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Reginald Gillette on November 10, 2010, 08:37:36 AM
"...death, the rupture of the discontinuous individualities to which we cleave in terror, stands there before us more real than life itself."

Georges Bataille

I don't see how that is necessary.  I'd be game, though, to the idea that the discontinuity is realer than our lives as we know them.  I.e., my individuality is imputed upon a collection of sense experiences, appearing as "I"-ness through a trick of consciousness.

"Death" is the only universal outcome, and as such has a "reality" unmatched by any other.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It is the ULTIMATE reality, since everything and everyone will experience it, regardless of what happens during their life.
That's not so much ultimately real, as common, inevitable, totally probable.

Meanwhile, I searched "anus.com 'only death is real'" (duh). 
http://www.anus.com/metal/about/metal/assimilation/:

" 'Only Death is Real' conveyed ego-death: no matter how big you think you are or how important, death is more real than your visions, so you must accept nothingness."

Notably,  "To see only death as real is to wonder what else can be real. The answer is right past the end of our noses: the world is real, and it's a continuum that renews itself, so it's worth working for" [emphasis mine].

So, only death and the world is real! 
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: sofiana on November 10, 2010, 09:44:32 AM

For me (physical) death is just a door to pass through.
A door to where / what? If you don't mind my asking.

It's the question the unborn child could ask before leaving mother's womb.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Athanasius contra mundum on November 10, 2010, 01:01:13 PM
"...death, the rupture of the discontinuous individualities to which we cleave in terror, stands there before us more real than life itself."

Georges Bataille

I don't see how that is necessary.  I'd be game, though, to the idea that the discontinuity is realer than our lives as we know them.  I.e., my individuality is imputed upon a collection of sense experiences, appearing as "I"-ness through a trick of consciousness.

"Death" is the only universal outcome, and as such has a "reality" unmatched by any other.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It is the ULTIMATE reality, since everything and everyone will experience it, regardless of what happens during their life.
That's not so much ultimately real, as common, inevitable, totally probable.

Meanwhile, I searched "anus.com 'only death is real'" (duh). 
http://www.anus.com/metal/about/metal/assimilation/:

" 'Only Death is Real' conveyed ego-death: no matter how big you think you are or how important, death is more real than your visions, so you must accept nothingness."

Notably,  "To see only death as real is to wonder what else can be real. The answer is right past the end of our noses: the world is real, and it's a continuum that renews itself, so it's worth working for" [emphasis mine].

So, only death and the world is real! 

This really seems to me like much ado about nothing. Only ice-cream is real. Let's discuss how that is a logical inversion of the post-modernist altered mechanics of dadaism now.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: JewishPhysics on November 10, 2010, 02:19:51 PM
It's the question the unborn child could ask before leaving mother's womb.
You kind of dodged the question there, didn't you?  I mean, a metaphor without some kind of context is not very helpful.  If you see death as a passageway, then you must have some idea of where it leads, so to speak.  Otherwise, you wouldn't see it as such.  It'd just be a demarcation or something.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Cargést on November 11, 2010, 12:38:11 AM
Considering the Celtic concept of the "Otherworld", in which this mortal realm is a realm of sickness, aging, and general suffering, and the Otherworld, the Land of the Dead, is a land of happiness, youthfulness, and sunlight, it might be plausible to consider "Only Death is Real" to mean "Life begins after Death".
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: metal on metal on November 11, 2010, 08:59:37 AM
"...death, the rupture of the discontinuous individualities to which we cleave in terror, stands there before us more real than life itself."

Georges Bataille

I don't see how that is necessary. 

It demonstrates a summit of experience.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: sofiana on November 11, 2010, 12:30:03 PM
It's the question the unborn child could ask before leaving mother's womb.
You kind of dodged the question there, didn't you?  I mean, a metaphor without some kind of context is not very helpful.  If you see death as a passageway, then you must have some idea of where it leads, so to speak.  Otherwise, you wouldn't see it as such.  It'd just be a demarcation or something.
I had my own experience, which cannot be shared. 




Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Emperor_of_Algol on November 11, 2010, 04:54:03 PM
It's the question the unborn child could ask before leaving mother's womb.
You kind of dodged the question there, didn't you?  I mean, a metaphor without some kind of context is not very helpful.  If you see death as a passageway, then you must have some idea of where it leads, so to speak.  Otherwise, you wouldn't see it as such.  It'd just be a demarcation or something.
I had my own experience, which cannot be shared. 

I hate it when women do that...
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Levy_Spearmen on November 11, 2010, 10:56:36 PM
Only Nothingness is Eternal.

This is the simplest, and absolutely correct interpretation of "Only Death is Real." Death is the ultimate nothingness of Brain Reality, human consciousness, that leads to an eternity of unknown existence afterwards. I am unsure of what the implications of our reality are to the universe, or what the universe even is considering my knowledge, i.e., Brain Reality of it.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: sofiana on November 12, 2010, 12:10:37 AM
I hate it when women do that...

Do what ?

What I meant to say is that physical death is just a gate to pass through, when you are ready for it. Ever heard about NDE ?
¨
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Ascent_of_the_Blessed.jpg/200px-Ascent_of_the_Blessed.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zAp3CSX9xx0/TGCiqOlBx6I/AAAAAAAAJ74/CaMcZluDSyQ/s400/gustave_dore_dante_the_empyrean.jpg)
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Ymir on November 12, 2010, 01:04:35 AM
I hate it when women do that...

Do what ?

What I meant to say is that physical death is just a gate to pass through, when you are ready for it. Ever heard about NDE ?
¨
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Ascent_of_the_Blessed.jpg/200px-Ascent_of_the_Blessed.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zAp3CSX9xx0/TGCiqOlBx6I/AAAAAAAAJ74/CaMcZluDSyQ/s400/gustave_dore_dante_the_empyrean.jpg)


Your experience is your own. You have no need to validate it in this thread.

To the aspies unable to discern this simple statement: Kill yourselves.

Is this forum is a failure?
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Vesupria on November 12, 2010, 05:33:20 AM
"Death" is the only universal outcome, and as such has a "reality" unmatched by any other.
What about "Life"? Or are they to you, one in the same, both part of the same eternal cycle? I'd agree, if so.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: metal on metal on November 12, 2010, 08:39:28 AM
"Death" is the only universal outcome, and as such has a "reality" unmatched by any other.
What about "Life"? Or are they to you, one in the same, both part of the same eternal cycle? I'd agree, if so.

Only if you worship matter (Mater).
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Vesupria on November 19, 2010, 03:54:25 AM
Only if you worship matter (Mater).
I've thought about this for a few days. I still don't understand how enjoying Life as much as Death, means that you worship Matter.

Something being an "ultimate outcome" does not make it the only reality. It makes it a reality, but only in the end.

It can definitely influence your choices in Life, but it certainly shouldn't make them a non-reality as you somehow seem to be suggesting with your cute language tricks!

Are you somehow suggesting that you cannot actually "live" in an ultimate reality, but only die?
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: metal on metal on November 19, 2010, 09:38:06 AM
I was referring to the general division of the ancient states in two archetypes: solar and lunar. The predominantly solar Empire existed in order to maximize the amount of transcendence and it's projection on the matter, while the matriarchal community is regarded as degenerated from the solar order because of it's fatalistic spirituality, which was reflected in it's inevitable capitulation to Empire. Of course, with time the Empire degenerates and crumbles while the telluric attributes of the conquered race rise again from the Black Mother Isis.

The different experience of death in these two cultures is best observed in their funeral rites. In solar cultures, the carcass is ignited to evaporate beyond matter, while the telluric proto-communists fertilize the Womb for the rebirth. While that doesn't imply a lack of spirituality (sometimes it was very developed), it shows a degradation regarding the focus shift from the immovable Principle to the miracle of incarnation.

Solar religion is a set of techniques for cremating what is not Principle, divided in two chapters. Through the lesser mysteries one achieves absolute mental hygiene and through higher the absolute participation in the Principle, at least Buddha said so. The Telluric (and it's subtle sister Lunar) religion goes no further than the lesser (Orphic, Eleusinian, Pythagorean) mysteries. In modern times, it's manifested in psychoanalysis: the underworld in which a freudian combats the demons of his subconsciousness is simply to be cremated through yoga, for example. So it's also a question of the approach to the lesser mysteries, but mainly the question of the barrier.

Modern people have lost most of the access even to the lesser mysteries, but they still know sacred. A dollar bill is haunted by a spook which causes one to observe differently the burning of goods worth 1$ and the actual bill disintegrating, aside any criminal implication. The dollar spook is different from the yen spook and so on.. That's one aspect of the Mater worship megacult, focused on the lowest common denominator, manifested as Janus of communism/capitalism. Without a force organizing humanity in accord with the Principle we are not provided techniques for awakening the possibility of personal action and fall prey to re-action, i.e. the karmic endless circle of rebirth.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Cargést on November 19, 2010, 11:00:30 AM
i'll point out quickly that the first "solar" entities were matriarchal societies (or, to put it more bluntly: patraiarchal societies are a relatively modern occurrence, in human history, though they probably form the basis of what we'd call "civilisation").  The belief that the moon is feminine, the sun masculine, is a more recent polarisation of the ancient consideration that the sun, as giver of life, must be feminine (Amaterasu, Sol, etc.).  Mainly a point of information, doesn't go against what you've said much in the slightest, especially from a Grecoroman perspective (Ancient Greece being the first European society to have a Sun God and a Moon Goddess, while the Germanics/Celts still had a Sun Goddess).
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Vesupria on November 19, 2010, 03:15:30 PM
Thanks M.o.M, your original words make much more sense when put in context.

I'm admittedly a beginner on esoteric religion / spiritually as you described. Interestingly I am slowly making my way through a beginner's book on the subject. Jonathan Black's "The Secret History of the World." Have you read it, and do you know if it has much relevance to what you are saying? If not, can you make other reading suggestions that may help me understand even more so?
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: geshem on December 09, 2010, 08:20:05 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxtJGoZjgRs
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: Iconocloaca on December 17, 2010, 02:09:01 PM

Maybe "Only Death is Real" is just tossed about because it's a badass-sounding slogan from a legendary band; it's exclusive, lethal, definite, and pure.  If so, stop me here.
Quote

Pretty much that.  I don't think anybody takes it extremely seriously like you suggest.
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: indjaseemun on December 17, 2010, 02:16:04 PM
It's totally symbolic. It means we die every second, if we don't crystallize our toughs, it's like to concentrante on nothingness (nihilism).
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: lord.aspie on December 18, 2010, 05:42:35 PM
It's totally symbolic. It means we die every second, if we don't crystallize our toughs, it's like to concentrante on nothingness (nihilism).

Sounds like you have been reading the Tibetan book of the dead?
Title: Re: "Only Death is Real"...Really?
Post by: indjaseemun on December 18, 2010, 07:10:06 PM
It's totally symbolic. It means we die every second, if we don't crystallize our toughs, it's like to concentrante on nothingness (nihilism).

Sounds like you have been reading the Tibetan book of the dead?

Not really, but certainly i've read books by authors who have read it.