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Metal => Interzone => Topic started by: Cargést on November 27, 2010, 12:12:40 AM

Title: Good popular music
Post by: Cargést on November 27, 2010, 12:12:40 AM
It's not an impossibility, just a rarity.  I'm getting very much into what I would call "House" music at the moment - a friend of mine is an amateur DJ, and it appears that we've found common ground in throwback disco put to dance beats with drawn out passages of extensive layering.  Some of this stuff (Daft Punk especially) actually ranks up there with a lot of good Metal, in my esteem (particularly the album "Discovery").  Examples: Daft Punk - Around the World (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMU-pirt2vI&feature=related), Modjo - Lady (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3V3n7zccMI&feature=related), and Louis La Roché - Be Brace (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=319zTLYmR70).

This thread is mainly for discussion and possible recommendation of similarly good popular music.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: lord.aspie on November 27, 2010, 12:43:57 AM
Rush deserve a place in every hessian heart at least!

As far as I go with "pop": Wired Al Yankovich, Public Enemy, and dumber down electronica can be fun. 

Most pop is hardly music as I see, but rather a social object/lubricant or small self gratifying distraction. Not to sound pompous, but  for those reasons I consider most of it not music at all.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Cargést on November 27, 2010, 12:51:06 AM
"Music as entertainment" as opposed to "music as Art".

What's a good Rush album to start with?
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Sepulchral Voice on November 27, 2010, 01:04:04 AM
"Music as entertainment" as opposed to "music as Art".

What's a good Rush album to start with?
The only ones I like personally are Caress of Steel, A Farewell to Kings, and Hemispheres. I don't think these are inherently better than 2112 or Fly By Night, they just appeal to me more. Start with the first track on Hemispheres, if you like that, try more.

What are we counting as pop music? Jethro Tull has a few good records, and two ANUS-reviewed mentions: The Doors and My Bloody Valentine.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: esoteric on November 27, 2010, 01:21:02 AM
Hail Cargest! I'm starting to worry with your latest string of posts praising Dragonforce and now house music...

The floodgates are wide open with this thread. I'm expecting to see Take That mentioned at some stage.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Cargést on November 27, 2010, 02:06:02 AM
I would expect the incredibly lucid and intellectually active members of this forum to withhold judgment until they had experience of the object to be judged!  We all agree that anything abhorrently mainstream is bad (most "pop" falls into this category).  The question here is what "mainstream" is good.  Also, DragonForce is the best Metal band ever, don't diss them.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: indjaseemun on November 27, 2010, 02:44:29 AM
I wrote a whole text here and it was erased due to problems. So I'm just going to post music and I am very very curious as to the opinion of the members. I'll write on the subject of my appreciation of popular music later. Check:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZLMoMe3PjU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UH4mzosiKQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdzoK5jwESM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW3gKKiTvjs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCEMrSvkzAQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KazWn8KyZt8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6d2C2dzFlM
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Examiner on November 27, 2010, 03:03:42 AM
The pioneering works are artistically and musically superior as far as electronic pop music goes, such as Kraftwerk and Yellow Magic Orchestra.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: esoteric on November 27, 2010, 03:36:02 AM
I would expect the incredibly lucid and intellectually active members of this forum to withhold judgment until they had experience of the object to be judged!  We all agree that anything abhorrently mainstream is bad (most "pop" falls into this category).  The question here is what "mainstream" is good.  Also, DragonForce is the best Metal band ever, don't diss them.

If it's true what you said earlier - that pop is music for entertainment and not art, then I'm not sure anyone one can say what is good or bad. I like Bob Dylan's music more than any other pop songwriter, but that's all I can say - it might be bad for all I know! If I'm seeking entertainment, then what's good is what entertains me. That's very different from metal.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: lord.aspie on November 27, 2010, 03:46:38 AM
"Music as entertainment" as opposed to "music as Art".

What's a good Rush album to start with?

I think "recreation" is a more appropriate term. Most ordinary people do not listen to it for it's sake alone, but as something to accompany an activity - a background for a social function, something to dance to at parties, GTA pimping, ect..

For Rush, A Farewell to Kings and 2112 are without a doubt some of the most memorable moments in prog rock. An outrageously optimistic and youthful spirit of attacking the fuck out of life for the joy of it. Everything up to Moving Pictures (where they full on adopted pop music, but with spirit and creativity) is what you want to pay attention to.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Cargést on November 27, 2010, 07:16:08 AM
The pioneering works are artistically and musically superior as far as electronic pop music goes, such as Kraftwerk and Yellow Magic Orchestra.

I'm inclined to agree with this, and I think I'll add that the genres of pop music more directly evolved from early electronic music (in substance, not in style) seem more likely to be worthwhile.

I would expect the incredibly lucid and intellectually active members of this forum to withhold judgment until they had experience of the object to be judged!  We all agree that anything abhorrently mainstream is bad (most "pop" falls into this category).  The question here is what "mainstream" is good.  Also, DragonForce is the best Metal band ever, don't diss them.

If it's true what you said earlier - that pop is music for entertainment and not art, then I'm not sure anyone one can say what is good or bad. I like Bob Dylan's music more than any other pop songwriter, but that's all I can say - it might be bad for all I know! If I'm seeking entertainment, then what's good is what entertains me. That's very different from metal.

My point in this thread is that not all music which falls within the "popular" genres is mindless drivel for the masses.  Some of it, albeit an incredibly small percentage, is thoughtfully composed, and maintains interest.  I've mentioned Daft Punk again and again because they've successfully kept my interest for a number of years - for all I know at the moment, the rest of that kind of music is, simply, crap, and I'll be done with it in due course.  I can't see a problem with looking into it, though.

Quote from: People talking about Rush
A Farewell to Kings

Listening to some of this now.  It's certainly interesting.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Dead_Soul on November 27, 2010, 08:40:01 AM
It's not an impossibility, just a rarity.  I'm getting very much into what I would call "House" music at the moment - a friend of mine is an amateur DJ, and it appears that we've found common ground in throwback disco put to dance beats with drawn out passages of extensive layering.  Some of this stuff (Daft Punk especially) actually ranks up there with a lot of good Metal, in my esteem (particularly the album "Discovery").  Examples: Daft Punk - Around the World (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMU-pirt2vI&feature=related), Modjo - Lady (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3V3n7zccMI&feature=related), and Louis La Roché - Be Brace (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=319zTLYmR70).

This thread is mainly for discussion and possible recommendation of similarly good popular music.
Have some Squarepusher with that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8Y3piodWes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yA8MRphI8w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CHV44WpKw4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G01DKEig14&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUBPH6vp5Uo
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Humanicide on November 27, 2010, 12:27:14 PM
The thread title is a contradiction in terms.

I've never found much enjoyment in popular music. I suppose the closest I get would be Billy Bragg, Weird Al (purely for the ridiculousness/nostalgic value), and a few choice rock bands like Alice in Chains, Cream, The Doors, etc.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: zebra bodine on November 27, 2010, 12:34:09 PM
The past couple years I've gotten way into some indie folk bands, primarily Okkervil River, Shearwater, and the Decemberists.  Colin Meloy of the Decemberists tells some wonderfully perverse and disturbing stories in the form of upbeat acoustic folk.  Shearwater's last album "The Golden Archipelago" is one of the most beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard, though they evolved well beyond folk into a highly-textured, more orchestral rock format.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: istaros on November 27, 2010, 03:36:00 PM
Like Sepulchral Voice pointed out, what are we defining here as popular music? I like *some* Bjork, Kraftwerk, Boards of Canada, and Autechre, but I don't know that they or any of the other bands mentioned in this thread would really be considered mainstream, aside from Rush. The closest that come to it are Bjork and Daft Punk, but even they lie a little below the Top 40 spectrum. Public Enemy would fall into that category, except most people who listen to rap don't tend to think of albums in terms of their being classics or not, which would more or less disqualify them too. As for Dragonforce, that's one of the candidates for worst band of all time, along with the Beegees, Creed, Bread, and (to me) the Eagles.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Sepulchral Voice on November 27, 2010, 03:44:52 PM
I'd say pop music is defined by the pop structure and also, as stated before, the reason behind the music. Daft Punk is pop music because they make music as entertainment, Kraftwerk make music because they want to fulfill some sort of artistic vision.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: istaros on November 27, 2010, 04:00:07 PM
Sure, but for the apparent intents of this particular thread, that definition doesn't seem to serve very well. A lot of entertainers try to make musical art, they just happen to fail miserably at it. It also suggests that, even if someone tries to make entertaining music but only succeeds in being marginally fun, the result is objectively better than someone who tries to make something artistic but "fails" because the result is massively entertaining, since the former's effect is closer to their intent.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Humanicide on November 27, 2010, 04:41:09 PM
istaros - speaking of the Bee Gees:

http://www.bnrmetal.com/v2/search.php?name=bee+gees

Interesting, eh?
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Chessnut on November 27, 2010, 05:20:36 PM
Talk Talk, Talking Heads, Joy Divison, New Order, Killing Joke, The Pixies, Cocteau Twins, The Cranberries, Husker Du, My Bloody Valentine etc. etc.

These are all alt rock, pop and post punk from the 80's, which have some appeal to them. Admittedly, I only give Killing Joke and My Bloody Valentine an occasional listen.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Cargést on November 28, 2010, 04:16:01 AM
Daft Punk is pop music because they make music as entertainment

Maybe you should acquire knowledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_%28Daft_Punk_album%29#Theme) about something before you make definitive statements.

I don't see why popular music has to stick to the pop structure.  The three links which I started the thread with don't use pop structure, and, apparently, two of those three were "'#1" (in the UK at least).  I'm looking into this House stuff at the moment primarily because a lot of it doesn't use pop structure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Around_the_World_%28Daft_Punk_song%29#Structure).

The thread title is a contradiction in terms.

Because "popular" is always bad, irrespective of actual merit.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Veritas on November 28, 2010, 05:00:16 AM
House music?!

Varg is proud you, son.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Cargést on November 28, 2010, 12:43:22 PM
Quote from: Varg Vikernes
I also like some underground "white label" house music

Wow.  I knew he went to dance clubs when he distanced himself from "Metal", but I didn't know he actually listened to House music, now.  I'm pretty sure it was a very different genre back in the early '90s, though.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: AnHero on November 28, 2010, 02:08:09 PM
It's not an impossibility, just a rarity.  I'm getting very much into what I would call "House" music at the moment - a friend of mine is an amateur DJ...

Maybe you should take more time to see if House is worth it before recommending it to others. We all go through phases like these, especially when young.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Cargést on November 28, 2010, 04:27:41 PM
I'm hardly recommending it, merely stating that I'm looking into it.  At the moment, very little is good, at all, though some of it interesting.  I haven't found anything better than the best of Daft Punk, at least.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Andrew on November 28, 2010, 09:13:17 PM
The Knife - Silent Shout (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxqeRMoYA5g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxqeRMoYA5g))
The Cure - Seventeen Seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZwVgQ4Wq7E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZwVgQ4Wq7E))
Jefferson Airplane - Surrealistic Pillow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0))
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Cargést on November 28, 2010, 10:25:40 PM
I've always enjoyed Jefferson Airplane/Starship (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2V8cyVNtig).  Dire Straits, the Doors, some Hendrix, and perhaps a few other groups/musicians which I can't quite remember at the moment, etc.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: metal on metal on November 29, 2010, 12:38:16 AM
Cargest, there is no "white label" house music, no matter Varg's words- it is always based on disco rhythm. Techno also has, say, house/negro origins, but sometimes it transcended them because of an ebm/electro influx.

Proto-ebm used to be a very interesting genre, before (a fairly recent) appropriation and misinterpretation through goths.

Here are some nice examples of early white body music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8t5rAIV3WY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTNVTP1iMNo

Both of these songs are from the very early 80's and later used as template by the Afro-Americans in Chicago and Detroit to create house and techno music. There are still some artists who create this type of pure pulse, maybe you'd like to check out:

http://depositfiles.com/en/files/2347944

This is an example of early 90's appropriation of techno music into a white beat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN8e_VF5Qm0
(be sure to continue to part 2, as the track is fairly long)

...just to put some things in context. Enjoy!


Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: metal on metal on November 29, 2010, 01:06:49 AM
As for other popular music, I'm pretty nostalgic for a specific kind of decadence-

Serge Gainsbourg:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1tqNv-c8OQ


David Bowie's Station To Station (1975) is a track inspired by Kraftwerk's Autobahn, later they returned the nod namechecking him on Trans-Europe Express:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY77zDzNmYw

It's important noting the song's heavy industrial beat was later used as a blueprint by Swans and similar bands. Also the Thin White Duke persona / crypto-fascist and occult lyrics... seminal!
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Humanicide on November 29, 2010, 10:18:39 AM
The thread title is a contradiction in terms.

Because "popular" is always bad, irrespective of actual merit.

No, but in the terms we are referring to (ie - music popular amongst the masses), it is true 99.9% of the time. I stand by my statement.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: comment on November 29, 2010, 10:20:18 AM
There is good music to be found in the realm of the electronic, if one cares to look.

Jesselyn - Iron.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Mj9975eYY
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Cargést on November 29, 2010, 10:32:12 AM
The thread title is a contradiction in terms.

Because "popular" is always bad, irrespective of actual merit.

No, but in the terms we are referring to (ie - music popular amongst the masses), it is true 99.9% of the time. I stand by my statement.

You've just refuted your statement in that post there by saying "99.9% of the time", though.  If there's 0.01% that's worth looking into, then, firstly, the thread title is evidently not a contradiction in terms, and, secondly, we ought look into that 0.01%, hence this thread.  I agree entirely that the inescapably vast majority of popular music is absolute trash, but I'm looking for candidates to receive the accolade of "objectively good music which happens to be accessible and 'popular' as a result".
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Humanicide on November 29, 2010, 09:33:48 PM
I know I refuted myself. Its immature but I won't listen to popular music at all, period. I try to ignore it when its on.

But still, I can't deny the probability of good music in a genre I don't enjoy. I'll just never listen to it.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Nimbostratus on November 29, 2010, 10:33:01 PM
I know I refuted myself. Its immature but I won't listen to popular music at all, period. I try to ignore it when its on.

But still, I can't deny the probability of good music in a genre I don't enjoy. I'll just never listen to it.

Good music inside a generally bad genre > Bad music inside a generally good genre

Give me names of albums for I believe in Beauty :kiss:
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: loam on November 30, 2010, 12:57:33 AM
Good music inside a generally bad genre > Bad music inside a generally good genre

Give me names of albums for I believe in Beauty

I'll second this. I listened to (and explored the origins of) Daft Punk's "Discovery" on Cargést's recommendation, but found nothing of lasting value there. However, I am an avid metal listener and revere the great electronic music I can find.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: aquarius on November 30, 2010, 05:26:31 AM
Elecronic dance/rave music is almost the antithesis of metal in that while metal seeks to become immortalised, rave is all about the flavour of the week, while it embraces modern culture and acknoledges the irony of how disposable it is. In saying that, it produced trinkets of worthwhile music predominately in the trance genre which as opposed to house/techno is actually based around melody and is naturally predisposed to ambience (essentially Trance Europe Express era Kraftwerk > EBM > fused with techno became trance.)

I read that Fenriz also loved this stuff.

Recommended:

Cosmosis - Cosmology
Dimension 5 - Transdimentional
Hallucinogen - Twisted
MFG - the prophesy
Indoor - Progressive trance
any other old stuff by Etnica, Total Eclipse or Transwave

Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: metal on metal on November 30, 2010, 06:40:21 AM
Elecronic dance/rave music is almost the antithesis of metal in that while metal seeks to become immortalised, rave is all about the flavour of the week, while it embraces modern culture and acknoledges the irony of how disposable it is.

Both of these approaches leave plenty of space for abuse.

it produced trinkets of worthwhile music predominately in the trance genre which as opposed to house/techno is actually based around melody

That is the worst characteristic of trance. More than in any of the electronic genres (with the exception of their ultra-dumb incarnations) trance generally displays an affinity for cheesy simpletonal melodies and retarded quasi-psychedelic effects entertaining only the most undemanding of brains. One can immediately know the degenerate face expression of the author reflecting in the overall pulse, as opposed to the dis-grimacing effect of Kraftwerk. I'm not saying the other genres are much better though, but especially psy-trance is to be dismissed completely.

(essentially Trance Europe Express era Kraftwerk > EBM > fused with techno became trance.)

A better guess would be: simple adding of an unnecessary bass dumb at the shamelessly proletarian bpm to a track by Schulze's degenerate nephew.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: aquarius on November 30, 2010, 06:36:28 PM
Elecronic dance/rave music is almost the antithesis of metal in that while metal seeks to become immortalised, rave is all about the flavour of the week, while it embraces modern culture and acknoledges the irony of how disposable it is.

Both of these approaches leave plenty of space for abuse.

I don't see that, if something actually succeeds in transcending it's own time period then it is better/healthy than something which cannot, the mentality behind rave music actually prevents it from even trying.

it produced trinkets of worthwhile music predominately in the trance genre which as opposed to house/techno is actually based around melody

That is the worst characteristic of trance. More than in any of the electronic genres (with the exception of their ultra-dumb incarnations) trance generally displays an affinity for cheesy simpletonal melodies and retarded quasi-psychedelic effects entertaining only the most undemanding of brains. One can immediately know the degenerate face expression of the author reflecting in the overall pulse, as opposed to the dis-grimacing effect of Kraftwerk. I'm not saying the other genres are much better though, but especially psy-trance is to be dismissed completely.

I was more thinking of early prototypical psy i.e. acid or goa-trance which tries to build momentum and release over the span of a song, and likewise in songs over the span of the album. This is the main strength of trance compared to the other genres: it's knowledge of ambience, then it goes for the full emotional release. It's still basically simpleton music as is all rave music, but it's more enjoyable if you don't expect too much 'meaning'.

(essentially Trance Europe Express era Kraftwerk > EBM > fused with techno became trance.)

A better guess would be: simple adding of an unnecessary bass dumb at the shamelessly proletarian bpm to a track by Schulze's degenerate nephew.

Kraftwerk I'd take anyday over trance that goes without saying, they created pop music that was more serious and longstanding than 80% of metal. EBM is a striped down version of their technique adapted to a dystopian worldview, but it's still pretty cool.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: August on November 30, 2010, 07:28:39 PM
Tangerine Dream.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Sepulchral Voice on November 30, 2010, 07:42:33 PM
Tangerine Dream.
They actually did make decent pop music in the 80's. Their greatest albums are far removed from pop music though, obviously.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: August on December 01, 2010, 05:20:04 AM
Tangerine Dream.
They actually did make decent pop music in the 80's. Their greatest albums are far removed from pop music though, obviously.

I thought of 'popular music' more as something that is generally well-known in the public sphere. Perhaps this is not the case everywhere, but they achieved some level of popularity at least here in commie Sweden back in the day. I have a romantic view of the radio-climate of the 60s and 70s, I somehow imagine that even pop music needed to contain some sort of 'substance' to get airtime.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Emperor_of_Algol on December 08, 2010, 03:11:01 PM
I know I refuted myself. Its immature but I won't listen to popular music at all, period. I try to ignore it when its on.

But still, I can't deny the probability of good music in a genre I don't enjoy. I'll just never listen to it.

Wow, that's quite a negative approach to music. I know you've singled out pop music, but imagine if an avid black metal fan said "I can't deny the probability of good music in death metal , I'll just never listen to it." Would they, or would they not, be missing out on some of the best music ever made, purely due to stubbornness? Of course, the difference between death metal and black metal is not the same as that between "unpopular" music (or whatever you consider to not be popular music) and pop, but still: would you actually refuse to listen to a piece of music, purely because it's popular?
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Humanicide on December 08, 2010, 04:57:27 PM
The term pop music does not mean just one particular genre.  Typical pop music; everything from rehashed 4 chord rock to bubblegum pop to braindead hip hop to repetitive techno to irritable faux-soul singers. I will not listen to any of it.

You twisted my words around; I should've stated that I meant popular music in the context of what I described above. As far as the popularity of a particular album, well, "Ride The Lightning" is quality, and quite popular. That takes care of that.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Cargést on December 08, 2010, 10:40:43 PM
Well then, if you won't listen to the "typical" stuff, which everyone with a brain shuns, then surely you'll listen to the non-typical stuff (like Daft Punk, for example...)?
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Dylar on December 08, 2010, 10:59:03 PM
I don't really see anything inherently wrong with "pop" music: it's just medium, and artistry is mostly about the message.  God pop music, like good metal, is about the communication of experience.  Bad pop music is a blank slate - just a vaguely suggestive emotional background onto which we are invited to impose our own experience - polished to mirror-brightness so as to simply reflect back what we think we already know.  There's no communication and nothing really to communicate.  Meanwhile, a big fat beat pounds away the desire to ask questions, and a fleshy, balding man fondles your sack and rifles through your wallet for coke money.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: metal on metal on December 09, 2010, 05:15:50 AM
God pop music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEKurrs-0VA

The ancient bells of my town

They rang for the storms, rang for the weddings
They rang for our lives and for final journeys
Like some eternal music of our glory and our grief
They rang since what once was, the ancient bells of my town

They called to God and people, for the boat that sinks
They rang, they rang, for our walls and terraces
Guided our ships like birds to their nest
As if a mother's heart beats in the belfry under the stars

While the old harbors sleep and the blue skies shimmer
The belfries are like hands guarding the white ship
There's no sky in a rock, a man has to pass a hard road
But once they're needed, the old bells are here again

They tell us of our history, tenderly, as a father to his son
On this evening they poured out all their warmth
Like some eternal music of the cradles and colonnades
Listen to them, how they ring, the ancient bells of my town
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Veritas on December 09, 2010, 05:48:35 AM
I know I refuted myself. Its immature but I won't listen to popular music at all, period. I try to ignore it when its on.

But still, I can't deny the probability of good music in a genre I don't enjoy. I'll just never listen to it.

Wow, that's quite a negative approach to music. I know you've singled out pop music, but imagine if an avid black metal fan said "I can't deny the probability of good music in death metal , I'll just never listen to it." Would they, or would they not, be missing out on some of the best music ever made, purely due to stubbornness? Of course, the difference between death metal and black metal is not the same as that between "unpopular" music (or whatever you consider to not be popular music) and pop, but still: would you actually refuse to listen to a piece of music, purely because it's popular?

If the BM fan didn't enjoy DM at all and saw no place for it in their lives, based on an adequate exposure, would you really recommend that they listen to it anyway based on the greatness which others see in it?

It would have to be shown that listening to certain examples of pop music would actually be beneficial to the person in question. If even the best of the styles failed to show themselves to be worth listening to, then I think the person would be justified in not bothering to listen to any more of the styles, even if they recognise that others will see the merit of the music.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: indjaseemun on December 09, 2010, 07:02:35 AM
What about jazz?
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Emperor_of_Algol on December 09, 2010, 07:08:50 AM
I know I refuted myself. Its immature but I won't listen to popular music at all, period. I try to ignore it when its on.

But still, I can't deny the probability of good music in a genre I don't enjoy. I'll just never listen to it.

Wow, that's quite a negative approach to music. I know you've singled out pop music, but imagine if an avid black metal fan said "I can't deny the probability of good music in death metal , I'll just never listen to it." Would they, or would they not, be missing out on some of the best music ever made, purely due to stubbornness? Of course, the difference between death metal and black metal is not the same as that between "unpopular" music (or whatever you consider to not be popular music) and pop, but still: would you actually refuse to listen to a piece of music, purely because it's popular?

If the BM fan didn't enjoy DM at all and saw no place for it in their lives, based on an adequate exposure, would you really recommend that they listen to it anyway based on the greatness which others see in it?

It would have to be shown that listening to certain examples of pop music would actually be beneficial to the person in question. If even the best of the styles failed to show themselves to be worth listening to, then I think the person would be justified in not bothering to listen to any more of the styles, even if they recognise that others will see the merit of the music.

Of course, but deadite seemed to be indicating he would dislike something purely because its popular, not due to having tried unsuccessfully to appreciate its greatness. Also, he has since clarified exactly what he meant by "pop music" (a term which keeps changing in this thread), and I totally agree with him: following his definition of the "typical" stuff, once you've heard enough of that you've heard 'em all.

Good point though.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Humanicide on December 09, 2010, 09:58:12 AM
Well then, if you won't listen to the "typical" stuff, which everyone with a brain shuns, then surely you'll listen to the non-typical stuff (like Daft Punk, for example...)?

Not necessarily. I've heard Daft Punk before; never really enjoyed it. My tastes in music confuse me sometimes, much less having to explain it to others haha.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Humanicide on December 09, 2010, 09:59:56 AM
What about jazz?

There's a bit of goodness within this genre, but mostly it just pushes the "yeah man, everythings jive brotha, we all gotta just party and chill out to the jams!" mentality. Which is stupid. I will say on a personal note I enjoy the bass guitar technique within a lot of smooth jazz, and I've found some avant-garde jazz (Naked City) to be enjoyable.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Wolfgang on December 10, 2010, 12:45:58 PM
While I don't know anything about the music in this thread, I do know that I've been listening to the self titled Captain Beyond album religiously. To me it feels like the perfect marriage of the ideas that created metal and the infectious hooks and riffs of rock and roll. I'd say it's easily the greatest rock album I've ever heard. Thought that might kind of fit this pop music discussion. I think Captain Beyond would be just as appealing at a party in place of AC-DC, or to a Hessian in a private listening session.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: I disagree on December 10, 2010, 08:05:06 PM
R.E.M. 's early 1980's stuff through "Life's rich pageant", before they became an emo hipster band is pretty decent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVzvn3iB1qs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2QzIynIPZk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBqBhTrXw3Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGhT31D-Efw
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Libido_Itch on December 10, 2010, 08:25:04 PM
early pink floyd
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: nous on December 12, 2010, 08:17:22 AM
Kraftwerk - The Mix
Klangwelt - XOIO
VNV Nation - Judgement

Not too popular, not too bad.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Dead_Soul on December 12, 2010, 11:14:15 AM
R.E.M. 's early 1980's stuff through "Life's rich pageant", before they became an emo hipster band is pretty decent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVzvn3iB1qs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2QzIynIPZk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBqBhTrXw3Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGhT31D-Efw
Seconded.
What about jazz?

There's a bit of goodness within this genre, but mostly it just pushes the "yeah man, everythings jive brotha, we all gotta just party and chill out to the jams!" mentality. Which is stupid. I will say on a personal note I enjoy the bass guitar technique within a lot of smooth jazz, and I've found some avant-garde jazz (Naked City) to be enjoyable.
Have you heard Last Exit? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66MJ-KOFBFQ
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Conservationist on December 12, 2010, 12:48:50 PM
Just keep your standards high in every genre. If it isn't very close to Burzum or Kraftwerk levels of profound, leave it behind -- it's a way to fill your time, not reach for anything important.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Cargést on December 15, 2010, 06:36:45 AM
Just keep your standards high in every genre. If it isn't very close to Burzum or Kraftwerk levels of profound, leave it behind -- it's a way to fill your time, not reach for anything important.

True.  I still listen to Daft Punk, though.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: David_Brent on December 17, 2010, 10:58:55 AM
Bands I've enjoyed recently, how odd it may sound:
Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Beach house, The Beatles,  Marvin Gaye, The Rolling stones, Arcade fire, the National, Cinematic Orchestra (ma fleur), Pest (necessary measures), Mr Scruff, Heart, Flying lotus, Gonjasufi, The band, The flower kings, Led Zeppelin...

Jazz: I hear louis Armstrong is great, especially with his big band or something (I look into it). The things I've listened most to: mahavishnu orchestra, weather report and return to forever. 3rd world electric might be good as well, very weather reportstyle.

Daft Punk: I only have 'alive', are the others still worth buying then?

Oh and rush is great! :) And some bands are obvious (kraftwerk!!)
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Cargést on December 17, 2010, 04:54:32 PM
Discovery is the only Daft Punk album I have, and I think it's definitely worth getting.

Would Power Metal classify as "popular music"?  A lot of the European stuff is popular on the continent, if not exactly the stuff that's constantly played on MTV, although I first heard Blackened Thrash on daytime Italian Music Television (Necrodeath was the band, if I remember correctly).
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: David_Brent on December 18, 2010, 02:15:45 AM
Power metal : I remember enjoying Lost Horizon, Angra, Pagan's mind, Stratovarius, Fates Warning, Dragonland and Heavenly. Would you classify Grave Digger as power? Some good memories of Walls of Jericho by Helloween as well.  I still listen to Stratovarius and Fates Warning now and then.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Cargést on December 18, 2010, 06:51:08 AM
I just got Stratovarius's discography - Dreamscapes is a very interesting album.  Pretty much everything else just sounds like European Power Metal (probably because all other European Power Metal sounds like a cross between Stratovarius and Helloween).  I've got a few Helloween albums, and Lost Horizon's first album, as well as good old DragonForce, the best Metal band ever.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Humanicide on December 18, 2010, 07:44:32 AM
as well as good old DragonForce, the best Metal band ever.

Trololololol.

Anyway, I'd consider power metal to be a part of pop music. It's very basically structured most of the time, even though it has a metal shell it's mostly hard rock or glam rock. That being said, there are still some solid acts within the genre.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Cargést on December 18, 2010, 07:57:08 AM
Lost Horizon is pretty much the only Power Metal band I can think of that generally breaks from the verse/chorus structure, at least on their first album.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: indjaseemun on December 19, 2010, 01:48:07 PM
Discovery is the only Daft Punk album I have, and I think it's definitely worth getting.

Check out homework.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Mithrandir on December 23, 2010, 05:55:29 AM
Good pop music, especially from 3.35

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUbc4W8mfow
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Conservationist on December 23, 2010, 07:15:39 AM
"Music as entertainment" as opposed to "music as Art".

For people with high standards, there's very little in the public eye that is both (a) musically competent (b) artistically competent and (c) relevant, meaning about the issues that are important in reality and not all the social crap people talk about. Here's what made the cut for me:

* Fripp/Eno or Fripp ambient
* Yes
* Kraftwerk
* Camel
* Tangerine Dream
* early Doors
* Biosphere

There may be a few more, but other than that, it's kind of a void.

Things that didn't make the cut:

* Rush: faux prog, Thomas Kinkade/Hallmark styled twee emo "wisdom."
* Led Zeppelin
* The blues and jazz
* Techno
* Hip-hop
* Velvet Underground
* The Beatles (still pop, just one good technique applied)

That should upset enough people to start out.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Iconocloaca on December 23, 2010, 01:09:15 PM
With the emotions of the public the way they are, asking for good popular music is as worthwhile as asking for good children's music.  You're not going to find much.
Title: Re: Good popular music
Post by: Rot on December 23, 2010, 06:42:47 PM
Devo's pre-major label recordings contains murky, threatening, dark electronic rock music that is enjoyable in a sadistic way, its actually a good weapon to torture people with. The lyrics deal with mocking the stupid, mentally retarded and handicapped. I'd say go with Hardcore Devo Volume 2. In a similar vein Ween's The Pod is not only their best album but probably the best rock album of all time. It also drives people fucking insane, you could probably torture terrorists at Guantanamo Bay with that fucker but I'd avoid everything else they've done.  Kraftwerk's good, I'm not above listening to Thin Lizzy or old AC/DC. Captain Beefheart can be interesting on certain tracks. I've taken about 2-3 songs a piece off of all The Who's albums and got one good solid fucking album out of the whole deal. If you want to listen to Electric Wizard (girl stoner pop!) I'd say listen to 1972's Jerusalem instead, check out the song Primitive Man. Frank Zappa in his crueler more conservative moments made some of the most hilarious music ever recorded, that guy was no peace n love hippy, he hated em.  I don't have any deep love for this music but some of it can be entertaining when done right.