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Metal => Metal => Topic started by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 22, 2006, 07:51:41 AM

Title: Metal to write stories to
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 22, 2006, 07:51:41 AM
Hey all. I started writing in my spare time about 2 years ago, after I got bored and really just wanted to experiment a bit. I had the idea for 2 or maybe 3 books of a story that would be about religion and the affect it can have on people, but with a whole load of crazy crap on the side too. I'm not looking to create a literary masterpiece, I just like to write whenever I get the urge.

I stopped writing about half a year ago, due to a loss of direction and now I think I am ready to take it up again, I'll probably end up re-writing a lot of the stuff I've already put to paper. It's going to include some nationalist, pagan and nihilistic themes, as well as the original anti-church basis.

OK I have probably wrote enough now for everyone to justifiably write me off (pun not intended but embraced anyway) as a moron etc, so I'll just ask:

What metal (or any non-metal) makes a good listen, or even could give me some inspiration, while I write?


I used to listen to Iron Maiden (very good), Nightwish, Emperor, early Cradle, and Dimmu Borgir, as that was all I had at the time.

Any ideas fellows?
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: sonofevil on October 22, 2006, 01:09:57 PM
Well first you got to dispose of any cradle or dimmu burgur influences  that they had on your personal existence, and then you could start thinking about writing about metal material
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 22, 2006, 02:22:35 PM
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Well first you got to dispose of any cradle or dimmu burgur influences  that they had on your personal existence, and then you could start thinking about writing about metal material



why are these influences negative?
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: ChristianHolocaust on October 22, 2006, 03:07:50 PM
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why are these influences negative?


Candy black metal encourages simplistic thinking?

I write propaganda to Asphyx.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 22, 2006, 03:16:12 PM
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Candy black metal encourages simplistic thinking?

I write propaganda to Asphyx.


why does it? ANSWER ME PEOPLE

edit: cradle and dimmu may be 'candy' black metal, but it doesn't make their song material any more "simple".

dani filth is (was) a brilliant lyricist, as is the dimmu crew. just because they don't say the same stuff as true BM does, doesn't make what they write any less genius.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: rwja on October 22, 2006, 04:44:08 PM
Blind Guardian, Iced Earth, Opeth, Katatonia, Nine Inch Nails, Lacuna Coil, Dimmu Borgir
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Fight_The_Plague on October 22, 2006, 04:55:07 PM
I formally request user blitzkrieg banned from METAL FORUMS and this post be used in the future as a disclaimer for Sign-up saying: "Pull this shit and you're out of here, kids"

Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Xaphan190 on October 22, 2006, 07:00:19 PM
Actually he is right. Just because their music isn't true black, does that mean their lyrics are shit? What about those 'tr00 kvlt' bands that sing about hail satan 666 fuck god...very intelligent.

Besides, even simple things can inspire complex thought.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Skjold on October 23, 2006, 02:28:14 AM
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Actually he is right. Just because their music isn't true black, does that mean their lyrics are shit? What about those 'tr00 kvlt' bands that sing about hail satan 666 fuck god...very intelligent.


Invalid reasoning, X is dumb but so it Y, so it's ok to listen to X? How about dropping both X and Y. Intelligent art begets intelligent art.

Would you read Where's Waldo right after reading a literary master piece?

Obviously with music it's somewhat more debatable what is intelligent, but as no one has actually claimed CoF or DB are intelligent, the arguement has been what's wrong with stupid music? And well, why exactly would you feel like listening to something you know is flawed?
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Xaphan190 on October 23, 2006, 03:19:37 AM
 "Candy black metal encourages simplistic thinking?"

He's saying it's shit on the basis that it's 'candy' black metal. I was pointing out that just because a band is part of a certain genre it doesn't necesarrily mean their lyrics suck. The last comment I made was there because even if people think it's simple it doesn't mean it can't inspire better thought.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Vajra on October 23, 2006, 05:48:37 AM
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Actually he is right. Just because their music isn't true black, does that mean their lyrics are shit? What about those 'tr00 kvlt' bands that sing about hail satan 666 fuck god...very intelligent.


Apart from jackasses, who says most of these bands are any good either?


Without the intention to market Black Metal to a mass audience, or to be in a position to innovate like old Enslaved, Immortal, Burzum, etc. I don't think CoF or Dimmu Borgir would have anything to write at all.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Xaphan190 on October 23, 2006, 06:41:09 AM
The point was that bands lyrical content should not be judged by it's genre.

Black metal was inspired by the unintelligent lyrics you all despise so much, but look what it has turned into? As I said before, simple things can still inspire complex thought.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Vajra on October 23, 2006, 07:01:49 AM
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The point was that bands lyrical content should not be judged by it's genre.


I know what the point was, but didn't feel too inclined to respond to it because all this talk about cleaving to conventions in varying degrees is quite worthless.

Quote
Black metal was inspired by the unintelligent lyrics you all despise so much, but look what it has turned into? As I said before, simple things can still inspire complex thought.


Are you referring to something like Venom? It's not like their lyrical influence outweighed the 'Classical' traits of early Black Metal music, regardless of whether 'Satan' dominated the aesthetic (and he usually didn't). If anything, Venom's presentation was used as a modern vessel for the older ideals that Black Metal began to convey around 'Blood, Fire, Death' (which, according to my knowledge, marks the start of the refining of Classical influence in Black Metal).

According to that, music comes before lyrics. As far as intelligent art goes, lyrics become more like notes and rhythms produced by the vocal instrument. The fact that lyrics have relevance to the music simply becomes a matter of convenience for the artist if they want to aid the listener in understanding the ideas of the piece. The music should be sufficient to convey the intentions of a piece.

Maybe that's why CoF's lyrics are so verbose.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 23, 2006, 07:37:03 AM
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Invalid reasoning, X is dumb but so it Y, so it's ok to listen to X? How about dropping both X and Y. Intelligent art begets intelligent art.

Would you read Where's Waldo right after reading a literary master piece?

Obviously with music it's somewhat more debatable what is intelligent, but as no one has actually claimed CoF or DB are intelligent, the arguement has been what's wrong with stupid music? And well, why exactly would you feel like listening to something you know is flawed?



I didn't know DB and CoF were flawed, and I didn't know that they compared like Wheres Waldo to LOTR.

I was asking for positive responses, not OMFG, YOR TASTE IN MUSIC SUCKS, THEY ARE SO FKN STUPID, I DONT EVEN LISTEN TO DOSE BANDS, DEY ARE STUPID. If you want to insult them, try extending your one liners into something a bit more descriptive, perhaps include a reason, or an arguement?

Read their lyrics, and try not to be so biased just cos you have the idea in your head that you want to hate these bands. Not every band outside of tr00 black metal is a fucking council house estate moron struggling to fist down some words to shout about.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: 6418 on October 23, 2006, 10:15:34 AM
No doubt ChristianHolocaust's term 'candy black metal' included not only heavy metal with BM vocals like CoF, but also the bands that obsess over the 'True' scene and don't innovate.

CoF or Dimmu don't say anything that hasn't been said before. Their musical structuring lacks true artistic genius and plays around basic formations that don't even compare to Hvis Lyset Tar Oss. You fail also to see that lyrics are secondary in the overall musical scheme. Just because there easy to decipher doesn't make them the primary vehicle of meaning within music.

Look here (http://www.anus.com/metal/about/metal/index.html) and stop preaching individualism.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 23, 2006, 10:24:11 AM
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No doubt ChristianHolocaust's term 'candy black metal' included not only heavy metal with BM vocals like CoF, but also the bands that obsess over the 'True' scene and don't innovate.

CoF or Dimmu don't say anything that hasn't been said before. Their musical structuring lacks true artistic genius and plays around basic formations that don't even compare to Hvis Lyset Tar Oss. You fail also to see that lyrics are secondary in the overall musical scheme. Just because there easy to decipher doesn't make them the primary vehicle of meaning within music.

Look here (http://www.anus.com/metal/about/metal/index.html) and stop preaching individualism.


I didn't realise I was "preaching individualism" anyway.

What have Burzum said that hasn't been said before? HLTO is a brilliant album though, but whats the difference between it's structure and DB/CoF and what makes it genius?

I'm still looking for any more suggestions, this has just turned into an "insult the OP" thread.

No wonder your movement is failing if you all have the social skills of an undertaker who takes his job too seriously.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: 6418 on October 23, 2006, 12:04:56 PM
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I'm still looking for any more suggestions, this has just turned into an "insult the OP" thread.

No wonder your movement is failing if you all have the social skills of an undertaker who takes his job too seriously.


Magnificient. Don't insult me, followed by an insult.

The differences between CoF and Burzum are obvious. I've wasted enough time here, and if you can't see the line between entertainment and art then you weren't meant to.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 23, 2006, 12:27:16 PM
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Magnificient. Don't insult me, followed by an insult.

The differences between CoF and Burzum are obvious. I've wasted enough time here, and if you can't see the line between entertainment and art then you weren't meant to.


SHIT, DID U JUST POINT OUT SOME HIPOCRIZY INWHAT I JUST SAID? MY GOD, YOUR POWERS OF DECEPTION ARE VAST!

Please just explain the difference if it's so obvious.

What's the difference between these two songs? What makes one art and the other not?

http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/cradleoffilth/duskandherembrace.html#2

and this:

http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/burzum/burzum.html#5

i suspect the only answer you can come up with, is that Varg repeats a chord for about 5 minutes, repeats the same riff after that for about 10 minutes, then has a 4 hour long ambient electronic interlude playing the same 3 notes in succession, repeatedly. THATS SO MORE LIKE ART RIGHT?
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: euronymous on October 23, 2006, 12:41:35 PM
In the paper some music looks like nothing. It's needed to listen to it and to be able to appreciate it, in case there is something worth of appreciation.

edit: in the case of Burzum there is
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: sonofevil on October 23, 2006, 01:51:03 PM
Quote

I didn't realise I was "preaching individualism" anyway.

What have Burzum said that hasn't been said before? HLTO is a brilliant album though, but whats the difference between it's structure and DB/CoF and what makes it genius?

I'm still looking for any more suggestions, this has just turned into an "insult the OP" thread.

No wonder your movement is failing if you all have the social skills of an undertaker who takes his job too seriously.

movement failing or not, Cof and Dimmu burger aren't making black metal progress either, but opposite are negating from it without intending to at all. you asked for bands that would inspire you, well if cradle and dimmu inspire you to write about metal your better off not writting about metal at all, or for that fact contaminating it FURTHER like Cof and Dimmu did musically.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: sonofevil on October 23, 2006, 01:52:27 PM
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Magnificient. Don't insult me, followed by an insult.

The differences between CoF and Burzum are obvious. I've wasted enough time here, and if you can't see the line between entertainment and art then you weren't meant to.

i second that statement
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 23, 2006, 02:07:56 PM
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movement failing or not, Cof and Dimmu burger aren't making black metal progress either, but opposite are negating from it without intending to at all. you asked for bands that would inspire you, well if cradle and dimmu inspire you to write about metal your better off not writting about metal at all, or for that fact contaminating it FURTHER like Cof and Dimmu did musically.


i'm not writing about metal. this has nothing to do with any black metal movement. you sound like everyone else here: you tell me about whatever elitist, arbitrary viewpoint you have without explaining the reasoning that goes in behind it.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Xaphan190 on October 23, 2006, 06:35:44 PM
" movement failing or not, Cof and Dimmu burger aren't making black metal progress either, but opposite are negating from it without intending to at all."

Your wrong, they ARE making black metal progress, but not in the way we want it to.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Vaginal_Jesus on October 23, 2006, 06:48:51 PM
They are merely moving away from the origional direction of black metal and changing it to their liking. Because you do not appreciate that some art can be different while being in many ways the same you will never truly appreciate the music.

P.S. This coming from someone who does not listen to CoF and very litte DB
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: sonofevil on October 24, 2006, 04:19:11 AM
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They are merely moving away from the origional direction of black metal and changing it to their liking. Because you do not appreciate that some art can be different while being in many ways the same you will never truly appreciate the music.

P.S. This coming from someone who does not listen to CoF and very litte DB

Note to Self:a new trend on anus is to like bands like cradle of fiflth and dimmu durger for the sake of being cooky and different, because of complete loss of new ways to be alternative, cool, and individualistic. "black metal is failing" so why won't we turn back to the bands that everyone used to hate and say its a new intelligent apporach to black metal., maybe even parting from black metal in a new nihlistic direction
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: sonofevil on October 24, 2006, 04:27:33 AM
and mayeb start wearing darkish red lipstick, judenhuts, piercings, mascara, eyeliner.....
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Xaphan190 on October 24, 2006, 06:02:40 AM
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a new trend on anus is to like bands like cradle of fiflth and dimmu durger


Nice reply to a post that states the poster rarely listens to these bands. How many hours of reading vargs rants did it take to inspire that reply?

Quote
say its a new intelligent apporach to black metal., maybe even parting from black metal in a new nihlistic direction


That is said WHERE?


Your argueing that Dimmu Borgir is unintelligent and shit, yet insults like 'dimmu durger' are used? I hate to say it, but it's because of people like you that black metal is going nowhere.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: sonofevil on October 24, 2006, 07:03:40 AM
It is not an insult, it is a mere misconception because of a lack of care and interest, as a result of the insignificance of the subject being refered to, an attempt to make as little association with the subject, as is possible.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: euronymous on October 24, 2006, 07:57:29 AM
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Your argueing that Dimmu Borgir is unintelligent and shit, yet insults like 'dimmu durger' are used? I hate to say it, but it's because of people like you that black metal is going nowhere.


Can that be a reason? I find it ilogical. Please explain.


Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Xaphan190 on October 24, 2006, 08:28:43 AM
Are you suggesting that hypocrisy is what helps black metal progress?
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Dylar on October 24, 2006, 08:40:42 AM
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Are you suggesting that hypocrisy is what helps black metal progress?


I think he's suggesting that promoting devolutionary crap certainly isn't the way forward.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: sonofevil on October 24, 2006, 09:40:23 AM
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Are you suggesting that hypocrisy is what helps black metal progress?

talking about hypocrisy, here's some hypocrisy for you, a particular band claiming to be black metal, when in reality theyre just halloween frights whos music belongs in tim burton's nightmare before christmas soundtrack, and whos vocals would be appropriate for the voice acting also. the lead singer filth looks like pumpkin king too  


Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 24, 2006, 11:05:49 AM
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I think he's suggesting that promoting devolutionary crap certainly isn't the way forward.


he didn't say it was the way "forward", if there is a way for music to progress upon itself.

why would i like popular BM bands such as COF and DM to be different?

i can listen to anything for entertainment and i can listen to anything to appreciate it as art. there is NOTHING wrong with entertaining oneself with any kind of music (unless its something like cookie cutter rap, for obvious reasons, but even that is acceptable as long as the listener isn't taking it seriously) but most people here have an unfounded view of why DB, COF etc are terrible, when they aren't.

DB and COF made decent black metal (Principle of Evil Made Flesh, For All Tid + Stormblast), both took the genre into a different direction, and both bore the brunt of scenesters damning them for not sounding like Darkthrone any more.

Then COF went gay and DB's last album wasn't so hot, but both have had many brilliant albums.

"talking about hypocrisy, here's some hypocrisy for you, a particular band claiming to be black metal, when in reality theyre just halloween frights whos music belongs in tim burton's nightmare before christmas soundtrack, and whos vocals would be appropriate for the voice acting also. the lead singer filth looks like pumpkin king too  "

take a look at Immortals fucking terrible clown paint, Burzums frequent cheesy electronic interludes, Darkthrones contrived sound recording, and just about every bands moronic stagewear/photoshoot outfits. there isn't one "black metal" way of forming a black metal band, and its fucks like you that hold anyone else back.

Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Dylar on October 24, 2006, 11:11:35 AM
Were you raped by the birthday clown as a child?  It's ok, you can let go of the hostility now.  It's not your fault.

Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 24, 2006, 11:22:49 AM
you think i should forgive the clown who raped me?
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: euronymous on October 24, 2006, 11:29:24 AM
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i can listen to anything for entertainment and i can listen to anything to appreciate it as art


I doubt it

Quote
there is NOTHING wrong with entertaining oneself with any kind of music


there is : life is short

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most people here have an unfounded view of why DB, COF etc are terrible


unfounded?

Quote
Then COF went gay and DB's last album wasn't so hot, but both have had many brilliant albums


certainly NOT

Quote
Burzums frequent cheesy electronic interludes


OMG!





Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: hung_aryan on October 24, 2006, 12:31:22 PM
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take a look at Immortals fucking terrible clown paint, Burzums frequent cheesy electronic interludes, Darkthrones contrived sound recording, and just about every bands moronic stagewear/photoshoot outfits. there isn't one "black metal" way of forming a black metal band, and its fucks like you that hold anyone else back.



Dissing Burzum/Immortal/Darkthrone?? On ANUS??? Incon-fucking-ceivable.

But seriously, i'm astounded that you call Burzum cheesy and criticize Immortal's image, to back up your support of DB and CoF.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 24, 2006, 01:50:23 PM
Quote

Dissing Burzum/Immortal/Darkthrone?? On ANUS??? Incon-fucking-ceivable.

But seriously, i'm astounded that you call Burzum cheesy and criticize Immortal's image, to back up your support of DB and CoF.


i was celebrating their uniqueness (and parts of them that could be considered stupid), just as i am with DB and CoF.

why is it i make a passing referance to a couple of bands and all the thread turns into is everyone having a pop at them?

find something better to do.

euronymous you wrote a bit more shit like you normally do, but i'll say this: life isn't short, it's the longest thing we ever experience you moron.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: euronymous on October 24, 2006, 02:19:59 PM
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euronymous you wrote a bit more shit like you normally do, but i'll say this: life isn't short, it's the longest thing we ever experience you moron.


and you even dare to call me moron?!


;D
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: sonofevil on October 24, 2006, 03:08:57 PM
Quote

i was celebrating their uniqueness (and parts of them that could be considered stupid), just as i am with DB and CoF.

why is it i make a passing referance to a couple of bands and all the thread turns into is everyone having a pop at them?

find something better to do.

euronymous you wrote a bit more shit like you normally do, but i'll say this: life isn't short, it's the longest thing we ever experience you moron.

Burzum, Darkthrone, immortal have nothing cheesy about them but are serious bands. Cof and dimmu burger are an intended joke, however. you can never even think of comparing superior REAL black metal to imposter clowns. you say cof and jude have some brilliant albums, just like burzum and darkthrone, no,  they were never up there, and never will, even if darkthrone came out with some not so great albums, still they had glory at one point or the other, but not cof, nor my chemical romance, nor  Everytime i Die!
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: ChristianHolocaust on October 24, 2006, 03:56:31 PM
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take a look at Immortals fucking terrible clown paint, Burzums frequent cheesy electronic interludes, Darkthrones contrived sound recording, and just about every bands moronic stagewear/photoshoot outfits. there isn't one "black metal" way of forming a black metal band, and its fucks like you that hold anyone else back.


You might want to look here (http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/YaBB.cgi?board=metal_news;action=display;num=1160856914). The appearance of a band and the techniques they use to make their music are what define the quality of a band. Most good music has faults and all art is contrived to some degree. But if it has something profound to say, who cares?
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Walt on October 24, 2006, 07:05:31 PM
Cradle of Filth whore image, when your listening to cradle your not hearing art, your listening to the perpetuation of image, as such most people will listen to this music because of the way it makes them feel, as opposed to the artistic appreciation one may derive from something like Burzum.

Have you ever seen the retarded teenagers on forums, telling people not to mess with them because they are extreme and listen to slipknot? Cradle is slipknot is linkin park is crap. The music is ego masturbation, what an intelligent person might call individualism.

lyrically, http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/cradleoffilth/theprincipleofevilmadeflesh.html#9

Errant references to the self, screaming individualism. At the end of the song out of the blue comes lyrics of lost love. I can't discern the link between the god bashing and the "i'm so gothique and tragic". The lyrics read like a checklist or 'how to be goth F.A.Q' It's a product, and this is the bands first full length, cradle have never aspired to art.

Musically CoF sound like a melange of BM technique applied to pop esque progressions (1, 4, 5, anyone?) and all warmed over with  keyboards, sounding like a thousand other terrible bands. Vocals are the driving force of this music, "filth has an impressive vocal range, holy wowsers its so novel, this music must be excellent." Challenge a cradle fan on a forum and their general reaction will be that the vocals and keyboards are like so awesome dude. It sounds novel, it is crap.

Being a product, the songs inspire the one dimension of the product (which in cradle's case is image)  in the listener. One experienced with metal will shun this music; each and every listen will yield the exact, static, product. Which cradle have been flogging for the entirety of their career.

Something like burzum, true art, is an attempt to express the eternal. Repeated listens will not yield the same experience, there is a world of depth and complexity contained within, one can connect with the music, not the image presented.

Blitzkrieg you have brought image into your argument, your equating the image of the bands with the art they make? You've found this site, so your probably on the right track. Reevaluating ones musical tastes and more importantly, values, takes time. Keep exploring ANUS, you will hopefully come to understand the beauty of high art and why Cradle is utterly worthless.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Xaphan190 on October 25, 2006, 02:30:08 AM
Quote
talking about hypocrisy, here's some hypocrisy for you, a particular band claiming to be black metal, when in reality theyre just halloween frights whos music belongs in tim burton's nightmare before christmas soundtrack, and whos vocals would be appropriate for the voice acting also. the lead singer filth looks like pumpkin king too  
 
 


Idiot. Go back to page 1 and look at who first called it black metal.

Half of you people don't know shit about what you are talking about. Your just going along with the other people who actualy have reasons to not like dimmu borgir and their lyrics. Too bad in an effort to make it look like your not copying anyone you fuck up your arguments and give me stupid replies like:

Quote

I think he's suggesting that promoting devolutionary crap certainly isn't the way forward.


Sure, the answer makes sense...until you see what question it's trying to answer.

You can't honestly think someone who insults a band with stupid insults like that, insulting them for being unintelligent, is HELPING black metal can you?
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: sonofevil on October 25, 2006, 04:50:16 AM
i dont care who called them black metal on the forum, they call black metal themsleves, check out their myspace, i bet you do anyway everyday , it says "black metal" (not that i ever visited thier myspace, but i know it's there, and if you don't believe me then you check to prove me wrong) until then , this argument is settled,nobody is copying anybody else, its just obvious stupidity cannot be helped with in any other way. but its not your fault,  your just a child which thinks by crying louder people around will sacrifice their ways to meet your idea of how things are supposed to be
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Xaphan190 on October 25, 2006, 05:29:14 AM
Are you retarded? You manage to go on and on without actually addressing much of what I have said.

Your using the argument which was mentioned in a previous post. I believe it was along the lines of X is shit but so is Y so X is ok.

Dimmu Borgir may be hypocritical or whatever. But does that justify being a hypocrite to insult them?

The point of the argument was a band's genre does not necesarrily mean that the band's lyrics suck. You can't argue that so you just say that dimmu borgir sucks.

Kudos to dimmu borgir for completeing Grade 10 English, unlike a certain sonofevil.

From anwers.com


"Intelligent: Showing sound judgment and rationality: an intelligent decision; an intelligent solution to the problem."


1. Burzum (Dunkelheit)

[Musikk og tekst skrevet August 1991 a.y.p.s.]

When night falls
she cloaks the world
in impenetrable darkness.
A chill rises
from the soil
and contaminates the air
suddenly...
life has new meaning.


Dimmu Borgir

[For All Time]

Every tear is frozen
Our soul is linked
Our hate is bloody
All happiness is gone away
All laughter is gone away
All life shall end in death
In a cold and deserted landscape
Shall the black horde step from
Our lord shall rise
Up for all time, rise his kingdom again
Our struggle shall be rewarded
Our names shall be written
Our minds shall pull the bough
All morality shall be cast away
You want but you die of shame
Now is the time come
Yes break the word of the good
Let us for all time become rulers on this earth


Neither of these songs are pretty stellar in the intelligence department.

Now, hold your breath and try not to insult dimmu borgir. If you actually bothered to read my posts, you would see that NOT ONCE, thats right, NOT ONCE have I claimed their lyrics are intelligent. I'm merely challenging you to think of a valid reason WHY. 'Oh they sound like shit' 'theyr candy black metal' etc etc are NOT good reasons.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Alocer on October 25, 2006, 05:37:33 AM
Quote
I had the idea for 2 or maybe 3 books of a story that would be about religion and the affect it can have on people, but with a whole load of crazy crap on the side too. I'm not looking to create a literary masterpiece, I just like to write whenever I get the urge.


http://www.anus.com/metal/about/black_metal/

try this page (BEST EVER) or should i say study this page.  try & take ur mind off of COF & DB , you will get 8 books worth material out of this page if u listen to the best ever section.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Alocer on October 25, 2006, 05:38:50 AM
hell my english is bad  ;D
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 25, 2006, 11:36:23 AM
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Cradle of Filth whore image, when your listening to cradle your not hearing art, your listening to the perpetuation of image, as such most people will listen to this music because of the way it makes them feel, as opposed to the artistic appreciation one may derive from something like Burzum.

Have you ever seen the retarded teenagers on forums, telling people not to mess with them because they are extreme and listen to slipknot? Cradle is slipknot is linkin park is crap. The music is ego masturbation, what an intelligent person might call individualism.

lyrically, http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/cradleoffilth/theprincipleofevilmadeflesh.html#9

Errant references to the self, screaming individualism. At the end of the song out of the blue comes lyrics of lost love. I can't discern the link between the god bashing and the "i'm so gothique and tragic". The lyrics read like a checklist or 'how to be goth F.A.Q' It's a product, and this is the bands first full length, cradle have never aspired to art.

Musically CoF sound like a melange of BM technique applied to pop esque progressions (1, 4, 5, anyone?) and all warmed over with  keyboards, sounding like a thousand other terrible bands. Vocals are the driving force of this music, "filth has an impressive vocal range, holy wowsers its so novel, this music must be excellent." Challenge a cradle fan on a forum and their general reaction will be that the vocals and keyboards are like so awesome dude. It sounds novel, it is crap.

Being a product, the songs inspire the one dimension of the product (which in cradle's case is image)  in the listener. One experienced with metal will shun this music; each and every listen will yield the exact, static, product. Which cradle have been flogging for the entirety of their career.

Something like burzum, true art, is an attempt to express the eternal. Repeated listens will not yield the same experience, there is a world of depth and complexity contained within, one can connect with the music, not the image presented.

Blitzkrieg you have brought image into your argument, your equating the image of the bands with the art they make? You've found this site, so your probably on the right track. Reevaluating ones musical tastes and more importantly, values, takes time. Keep exploring ANUS, you will hopefully come to understand the beauty of high art and why Cradle is utterly worthless.


I'm not looking to reevaluate my music tastes - just progress on them with time. If theres a space for Cradle in my sphere of music listening, it will occupy it. As for my values; I was a sleeping (and a nationalist) nihilist before I found out what it actually was.


I don't know how you can jump to calling Cradle a perpetuation of image (to a degree all BM bands are anyway) - I am willing to accept they might not be art (or, more willing to accept it's impossible to come to a consensus on the issue), but they are very certainly the best of metal entertainment (for me), if not art.

I have never studied musical theory, so I don't know how to explain technicalities in music structure, but perhaps you listen to a Cradle album (before midian) and tell me why all the songs adhere to a pop song structure, and then compare it to a "true" BM band. I can't make out any difference at all.

The romance bit is linked with

"That night they came and took her away from me
I lost the woman I loved and I learned how to curse
And to spit in the face of their... "god""

it's part of the reason for the god bashing.

;-)
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on October 27, 2006, 02:09:42 PM
well i do study music and i can clearly tell you there is a vast difference between the original 6 BM bands and CoF.

Also cradle are a band that make nothing new, all there aspects of there music have been done countless times before (after all they sound like a very poor version of emperor and immortal with heavy nu-metal leanings) and do nothing to move the genre forward.

And they simply worship Satan as a gimmick which becomes very obvious if you read any of there interviews and so all people who enter the metal scene through them know nothing about metal in the least and go on to create more bands like cradle. So as you ca see its bands like cradle that slowly degenerate metal to slush
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Aesir on October 28, 2006, 12:47:26 PM
when you enter a musical genre like black metal you should not just go "where going to sound just like a black metal band!!" because your not. it is not sounding like a black metal band that makes youa black metal band.

I find cradle of filth to fill the sterotype of a goth kid and make black metal look bad. There music has no original concept of moving the genre on, but just filling the gap with crap is not the solution to this answer.

Xaphan190 wrote:

"Actually he is right. Just because their music isn't true black, does that mean their lyrics are shit? What about those 'tr00 kvlt' bands that sing about hail satan 666 fuck god...very intelligent."

Satian was used as a symbol in early black metal, for he was a person that carved his own path. not just to bash godand be 'satanic' but as  black metal moved on you got stupid nu-metal bands taking this seriously an example would be slipknot and cradle of filth this is repeditive and boring move on.

anyone influenced by these two bands need to think again.

Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Xaphan190 on October 28, 2006, 05:27:55 PM
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Satian was used as a symbol in early black metal, for he was a person that carved his own path.


*cough*Euronymous*cough*
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Dunkelheit on October 28, 2006, 10:24:17 PM
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Are you retarded? You manage to go on and on without actually addressing much of what I have said.

Your using the argument which was mentioned in a previous post. I believe it was along the lines of X is shit but so is Y so X is ok.

Dimmu Borgir may be hypocritical or whatever. But does that justify being a hypocrite to insult them?

The point of the argument was a band's genre does not necesarrily mean that the band's lyrics suck. You can't argue that so you just say that dimmu borgir sucks.

Kudos to dimmu borgir for completeing Grade 10 English, unlike a certain sonofevil.

From anwers.com


"Intelligent: Showing sound judgment and rationality: an intelligent decision; an intelligent solution to the problem."


1. Burzum (Dunkelheit)

[Musikk og tekst skrevet August 1991 a.y.p.s.]

When night falls
she cloaks the world
in impenetrable darkness.
A chill rises
from the soil
and contaminates the air
suddenly...
life has new meaning.


Dimmu Borgir

[For All Time]

Every tear is frozen
Our soul is linked
Our hate is bloody
All happiness is gone away
All laughter is gone away
All life shall end in death
In a cold and deserted landscape
Shall the black horde step from
Our lord shall rise
Up for all time, rise his kingdom again
Our struggle shall be rewarded
Our names shall be written
Our minds shall pull the bough
All morality shall be cast away
You want but you die of shame
Now is the time come
Yes break the word of the good
Let us for all time become rulers on this earth


Neither of these songs are pretty stellar in the intelligence department.

Now, hold your breath and try not to insult dimmu borgir. If you actually bothered to read my posts, you would see that NOT ONCE, thats right, NOT ONCE have I claimed their lyrics are intelligent. I'm merely challenging you to think of a valid reason WHY. 'Oh they sound like shit' 'theyr candy black metal' etc etc are NOT good reasons.


Those two sets of lyrics show a stark contrast between those two bands.

Dunkelheit speaks of finding meaning in life through nature.

That Dimmu Borgir song expresses some collectivist yearning for their god's time to come. It reminds me of the christian concept of waiting for an eternal life in heaven.

Black Metal is about Nihilism and strength of the individual not some Judeo-Christian afterlife or judgement day and strength of a group.

Bands like CoF and DB seem to be somewhat egalitarian despite their satanic imagery.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: sonofevil on October 29, 2006, 06:40:03 AM
you could tell from those lyrics which band has more meaning behind the song, and besides, even if cradle or dimmu or children of bodom have similar lyrical context to a real black metal band you heard, and they sound just like one of them original black metal bands, they seem to look like them too, they have make up on...Well, there's another word for that, it's called 'POSER'
and if you can't tell the difference, then you might as well listen to scooby doo metal, xaphan and other High On Fire lovers out there
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 29, 2006, 06:49:04 AM
I'm noticing two types of Dimmu bashers here - the clever ones who manage to find the true "faults" with their music and philosophy, and the stupid ones who keep proclaiming that DB/COF are just stupid posers for some reason, and how thye aren't true enough.

"That Dimmu Borgir song expresses some collectivist yearning for their god's time to come. It reminds me of the christian concept of waiting for an eternal life in heaven. "

It's a metaphor, for morality, it even says morality in there.

Whats wrong with a collectivist yearning for something?
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: we hope you die on October 29, 2006, 11:07:42 AM
The return of darkness and evil, the return of fire and flame, the return of my master satan, the return of desire and pain.

Classic lyrics, we've all heard them, now is this a metaphor for independent thought, or is it a guy reading satanic material and thinking he'll write a song about it. In interviews Quorthon said he was inspired by comic books he used to read, pretty childish, but he didn't take lyrics too seriously until he moved on to viking themes. Fair enough.

I listened to the whole the Principle of Evil Made flesh today, start to end. The keyboarods follow a simple four chord structure. My vocab is limited in this area so forgive me if i sound primitive. It's simply going up and down a chord and then switching to another one mostly, using four different chords usually one major chord chucked in for good measure and the rest being minor. This means the music has a simple hook which is appealing but limiting, after the chord structure on the keyboard or riff on the guitar has been used up they simply move onto the next riff or set of chords. This means that the music does not flow as much as "true" black metal, which simply uses one or two riffs that match with such perfection it is almost genius. (see Transylvanian Hunger)

It seems to me that filth started out listenning to emperor and thinking "wow, this is awesome", so they made a less than average album that on the face of it sounds more complex than your average Burzum track, because more riffs and keyboards are used, but it does not flow in the same way. When filth's popularity grew they lost sight of their influences and focused on image more and more, fancy keyboard lines in the same vain as their debut were churned out only this time they had better production on their side. Now they simply have an over the top goth image to uphold and are unrecognisable from what they started out as. In other words, they started out with good intentions but found that a simple chord sequence repeated followed by another one worked just as well.

Lyrically, there is no passion, when Varg Vikernes is singing, you somehow feel that he has lived it. When Dani is singing it is like he has thought, "what theme shall this album be?" and then hashed out some lyrics that sound something like true black metal, most of them time though, they are indesifable, just to give the music credibility. I have always felt that lyrics come second to the music though. The lyrics provide a setting for the song to take place and the music creates the images. The music expresses the emotions that are never articulated in words.

If you want to be inspired by music then crack open that unbelievably repetative burzum keyboard line, role yourself a joint and go for a walk in some woods or take a look at the moonlight, there is a buety in the repetative style of the music, complexity will grow out of it. You will however, as i have already said, have a hard time putting what you feel into words. The same riff repeated is beutiful because the riff itself is complex, if not hard to play, we simply can't get enough of that one darkthrone riff etc etc. A filth riff is usually predictable and follows a formula of some kind.

One final note, you're means you are, your means your. And we're means we are, where means where.  
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 29, 2006, 03:24:14 PM
Very good post VAT you've explained your position most eloquently. :) Pretty much agree with your analysis of COF, but I stil enjoy listening to them.

I don't smoke weed however, the majority of people I see smoking it are wasters, or aspire to be wasters.

If beauty is found in music when it repeats itself, then can someone explain classical music for me? It doesn't recycle itself as BM bands seem to do, but they often have merging ideals.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Skjold on October 29, 2006, 05:32:10 PM
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If beauty is found in music when it repeats itself, then can someone explain classical music for me? It doesn't recycle itself as BM bands seem to do, but they often have merging ideals.



Actually most Classical or Romantic era music can be simplified down two a theme or two per movement. They are just repeated in ways that are somewhat complex so it seems to an untrained ear they are completely different (note, this wasn't ment to be an insult to say that you can't hear it. I can't either and it's often only noticable when I examine the score).

Essentially Classical music repeats itself constantly but always slightly changing itself. Metal repeats itself usually without any major changes or something simple like going double time on the drums. Most other music cycles through melodies and only ever repeats to bring a marginal sense of unity (the outro should sound like the intro LOLZ!).
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: we hope you die on October 30, 2006, 08:45:07 AM
And because most decent black metal suffers from bad production and the guitars are extremely distorted, a subtle change would not be noticed so much as in classical music. So, in this way, black metal is far more constricted.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Dunkelheit on October 31, 2006, 10:32:03 AM
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Whats wrong with a collectivist yearning for something?


Black Metal is very individualistic. Collectivism isn't bad when its focused into a small group of like-minded people, but when it's used for the masses, it's a crutch for the weak.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 31, 2006, 01:54:53 PM
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Black Metal is very individualistic. Collectivism isn't bad when its focused into a small group of like-minded people, but when it's used for the masses, it's a crutch for the weak.


Walt said in this thread that one of the reasons CoF were shit was because one of their songs had multiple references to the self. explain.

Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on October 31, 2006, 03:09:16 PM
i don't really understand what people mean when they say true black metal. After all mayhem, burzum, enslaved, emperor, immortal and darkthrone all sound very different from each other and tried to be as different from each other as possible so i don't get the idea of true black metal (only musical not ideologically)    
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: ChristianHolocaust on October 31, 2006, 04:56:56 PM
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i don't really understand what people mean when they say true black metal. After all mayhem, burzum, enslaved, emperor, immortal and darkthrone all sound very different from each other and tried to be as different from each other as possible so i don't get the idea of true black metal (only musical not ideologically)    


Music communicates. If what is said is similar, or has a similar spirit, the bands are joined by artistic and not musical factors.

Like, totally fuckin' obvious, when you think about it?
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Dunkelheit on October 31, 2006, 07:06:26 PM
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Walt said in this thread that one of the reasons CoF were shit was because one of their songs had multiple references to the self. explain.



I don't mean individualism in the modern sense. Those references to the self were about emotions and the daily life of a person. When I speak of the individual I'm speaking of a person gaining strength through thought and experience and transcending the mundane. The ideals of metal are a little more esoteric than the goals of society. Yes they can be applied to a group of people but only individuals will come up with and embrace these ideals. Metal is for the free thinker, the loner, the individual, not for the sheeple.

Both types of people can end up liking metal but for different reasons.
Title: Re: Metal to write stories to
Post by: Walt on October 31, 2006, 07:09:24 PM
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one of the reasons CoF were shit was because one of their songs had multiple references to the self


Refering to the self is only negative in certain context.
It is my opinion that the lyrics of cradle, in concert with the image they project, appeals to the masses of metal idiots because by association they 'assimilate' what the band are projecting.

In other words listening to cradle makes the fans 'goth and like totally Xtreme'.

To a fan of the music it may seem oblique to make such assumptions, why if you strip away the faux blood and vampire teeth and other petty theatrics and focus on the music they make...

Look at the band as a nihilist, no human action is done without intent, cradle employ their image because it is a continuation of what they aspire to in their music.

Trust not the man who desires the reverence of others (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxSipGNORaE)

Linkin park pursue similar ends, what their music conveys should be blatantly obvious:
"Look at me Look at me, your not giving me attention so now ill threaten to cut myself untill you love me"

Cradle simply replace the self pity with a form of elitism. However the logic is backwards, the 'elitism' is a social apparition, something done for the appreciation of others, as opposed to something like the musical elitism that ANUS espouses which is done for the promotion of hessian culture.

Psychology of Image (http://www.guidetopsychology.com/identity.htm)

Cradle represents individualism, selfish caprophagic individualism that leads nowhere and acheives empty hollow nothing.

A songs lyrics serve as a sort of appendix, giving specific meaning to the sometimes ambiguous musical phrases, something like "My journey to the Stars" by Burzum conjures majestic images. The lyrics, though self oriented, detail transcendence.

Just because a song has self referencing lyrics doesn't make it bad, it depends on the context.

On listening to cradle one might look past filth's lyric writing abilities and notice how the songs perpetuate image by constantly bringing the listener into the fantasy.
Fantasies, thats what they are. It's a nice idea really, the way they sell image, except that it has no place in reality,it is a 'social crutch' in the whoring of something so transient and insubstantial as image.