100% Metal Forum (Death Metal and Black Metal)

Metal => Metal => Topic started by: analrapist on February 27, 2012, 06:41:18 AM

Title: War metal
Post by: analrapist on February 27, 2012, 06:41:18 AM
Despite it's popularity (http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/index.php/topic,15508.0.html), war metal is a stupid trend and a stupid idea.

Take the melody out of black metal, use the same rhythms, and what you have is really fast punk music. Order From Chaos to me sounds like a faster version of the Cro-mags with metal vocals, and Revenge sounds like Siege on speed with manic drums.

I'd rather go listen to Insect Warfare. It is what it says it is.

My days of spending hours every week trying to find metal music may be over. There is just so little, and so much hype.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: NHA on February 27, 2012, 07:58:16 AM
Impiety is ok sometimes. It's debatable if they're blackmetal or warmetal though.

Impiety - Christfuckingchrist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11P0WQCFtbU
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Humanicide on February 27, 2012, 11:47:38 AM
Despite it's popularity (http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/index.php/topic,15508.0.html), war metal is a stupid trend and a stupid idea.

Take the melody out of black metal, use the same rhythms, and what you have is really fast punk music. Order From Chaos to me sounds like a faster version of the Cro-mags with metal vocals, and Revenge sounds like Siege on speed with manic drums.

That's the point. Grindcore + black metal. Doesn't work a lot of the time since most bands tend to focus on blasting in doing so and forget the dynamics of black metal are needed. OFC I wouldn't group into this category, they're something much different.

Not a stupid idea when done right though (Blasphemy, Conqueror, Truppensturm, etc). It's more complex than simple punk music. I don't get your band associations above, sounds like you just aren't a fan of the style.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Linnaeus on February 27, 2012, 04:37:44 PM
Despite it's popularity (http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/index.php/topic,15508.0.html), war metal is a stupid trend and a stupid idea.

Where is it trendy? Australia? Bands like Sacramentary Abolishment and other aforementioned bands pull off the Grindcore/Black Metal sound without being ridiculous. Bestial Warlust is pretty bad, and they do try and sell themselves as war metal, but I don't think they're all that popular, though perhaps I'm wrong. I'm thinking of trendy in metal as that new wave of nature worshiping black metal/emo/drone or whatever it is like krallice or Liturgy, which is really getting under my skin lately.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Humanicide on February 27, 2012, 07:12:36 PM
Sacramentary Abolishment and other aforementioned bands pull off the Grindcore/Black Metal sound without being ridiculous. Bestial Warlust is pretty bad, and they do try and sell themselves as war metal, but I don't think they're all that popular, though perhaps I'm wrong.

Sacramentary Abolishment is one I forgot to mention, glad you pointed it out. I've only heard "River of Corticone"; it's quite good.

BW is reasonably well known/popular, on this board, even. I myself like them, though I see why their barbaric idiocy might turn one off. I find it too energetic to pass up.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Iron on February 27, 2012, 11:59:22 PM
This sounds like Cro-Mags?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj8hhFUxQw4

Title: Re: War metal
Post by: WAAAAAAGH! on February 28, 2012, 05:59:04 AM
Black Witchery's second album is insufferably bad. As for the genre of war metal. I'd say it's reasonably popular, as in not very popular at all. I can count on one finger the number of people who I know that like war metal, and on two fingers the number of people I know who have any idea what war metal is. A lot of bands considered war metal are more hyper-marduks than anything like conqueror. Bands such as Impiety or Infernal War.

The focus is on pure aggression, it makes sense that the melodic development of black metal is somewhat lacking. Since when did we become sticklers of genre requirements?
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: analrapist on February 28, 2012, 06:46:28 AM
You guys are like academics on a panel. Talk around the issue, get really tangential, then invent theories to justify it.

You haven't talked about the real point which is that war metal sucks. It's boring one note music that has nothing to recommend it except aggressive rhythm. That's not hard to do. It's easy for idiots to enjoy but it's not good or important. In fact it's really boring which is why black metal bands stopped doing this stupid shit long time ago.

War metal is like black metal's version of rap. All rhythm, stupid image, attracts fools based on its purported criminality.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Humanicide on February 28, 2012, 07:13:47 AM
You haven't talked about the real point which is that war metal sucks.

You haven't talked about the real point, which is approaching this topic subjectively and then scolding us when we don't agree with your viewpoint.

BM bands haven't stopped producing "war metal", for better or worse. Just look at a majority of the bands on NWN!

We get it, you don't like the style. There have been works in this style which have lasting value, not just to me but to people on this board and metal fans in general. It's not your thing. No need to be whiny about it.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: MilitantIdiotCrusher on February 28, 2012, 03:22:13 PM
Axis of Advance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_N93SIs1Ig)

Oh, you know, just some one-note music.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Linnaeus on February 28, 2012, 03:37:18 PM
The Australian stuff like Bestial Warlust, Destroyer 666, Vomitor, and others sounds like what Sodom did on Persecution Mania, which is a sound that really can't be attributed to any of the current sub-genres. The evolution of the genre is almost like how Grey Wolves have begun mating with feral dogs in areas of their range that are threatened with extinction; it creates something that thrives and is much like the original, but is markedly different as a product of circumstance.  

Axis of Advance is one of those bands whose songwriting method is beyond me. It seems clattering and raw but the songs are very complete and consistent, especially on Strike.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Iron on February 28, 2012, 03:48:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFP19FUZMAA

This is good music. Simple but winding tremelo picked black/death passages and slower, doomier sections convey a sense of cold, merciless death on a vast, neverending battlefield. Booming demonic voices provide commentary from somewhere high above. This band successfully achieves its aim by evoking images of trench warfare, ruined landscapes and massive loss of life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dyq0WAPrPI

Filthy mess of rotten textures forced into simple melodies. A bunch of ugly ideas are introduced and then pursued to climax. No, this form of metal is not analogous to Romantic era classical music. But that's not the point. The point is that it successfully gives voice and appropriate form to the idea of ecstatic love of the 'magical' power of death, darkness and the world beyond humanity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq-zA4M7CRs&feature=related

My favorite Cro-Mags cover-band.

analrapist - you're never going to succeed in convincing people that the music they listen to is "just noise". Isn't that what people have been telling you about the music you listen to for years? It makes more sense to criticize the ideas that inform a piece or style of music than it does to attack the form itself, sometimes. The form is not some kind of accidental thing that exists on its own.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Parasite on February 28, 2012, 04:13:40 PM
Trying to define who IS war metal is in itself an endless debate.  Best possible candidates i can think of, of varying style would be :

Bolt Thrower
Truppensturm
Conqueror


I think what people are calling War Metal( ex. Black Witchery) is nothing more than the "mainstream" type  or the "Rap" of Black Metal, and I can't believe there was a brief moment in time I listened to this band...
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Iron on February 28, 2012, 04:52:38 PM
I think what people are calling War Metal( ex. Black Witchery) is nothing more than the "mainstream" type  or the "Rap" of Black Metal, and I can't believe there was a brief moment in time I listened to this band...

Black Witchery isn't terrible. The trouble is that they aren't particularly good, either. They're a C band in a sub-genre already saturated with B and C bands.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: WAAAAAAGH! on February 28, 2012, 05:30:00 PM
Black Witchery's first album is easily a B/B-

It's all downhill after that.

I'll take the opportunity to show some love for Diocletian. HAIL AUDIBLE RIFFS!
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: analrapist on February 29, 2012, 08:13:16 AM
Black Witchery may be A+ for all I care but it's boring music. There is no melody, no complexity. It doesn't really evoke anything except disorganized violence. Forgive me for saying this, but it's like a violent and atonal version of pop music. Rap is really violent and has no melody but it is sort of catchy the war war metal riffs are. Is war metal like just rapping on guitars? These bands may be good (they can play their instruments well enough) but they are very boring and pointless. It's OK if you really have nothing better to do I guess but I'd really rather mow the lawn than listen to war metal, it's about the same sound experience anyway.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Humanicide on February 29, 2012, 08:18:00 AM
Black Witchery may be A+ for all I care but it's boring music.

Discussion is concluded here. I've said the same thing numerous times about Candlemass, Gorgoroth, Gorguts, early Dimmu Borgir, etc; it's good music but I don't enjoy it.

I've never thought Black Witchery was any good though. Maybe their side of the split with Conqueror is OK.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: analrapist on February 29, 2012, 08:20:35 AM
Discussion is concluded here. I/quote]

I don't know why people feel the need to say things like this. Doesn't discussion conclude, when discussion concludes?
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: aquarius on February 29, 2012, 02:42:15 PM
I think all black metal has some element of war, but it is one of MANY elements of life and gets lame pretty quickly when that fact is not understood. Anyway my pick would be Blasphemy - Gods of War.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Humanicide on February 29, 2012, 05:00:16 PM
I don't know why people feel the need to say things like this. Doesn't discussion conclude, when discussion concludes?

There's nothing else left to discuss. You compared the sound to mowing your lawn, whereas I'd compare a band like Deicide to hearing a 12 year old shout "SATAN" for an hour straight.

I already touched on this point; you don't like the style, so any positive aspects it may have are lost on you because of your musical preferences. There's not much more to discuss without going in circles.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: NocturnalTerror on July 14, 2012, 07:52:49 AM
Listen to Diocletian, faggoths.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Jim Necroslaughter on July 14, 2012, 08:17:39 AM
Listen to Diocletian, faggoths.

Also, Heresiarch (http://www.deathmetal.org/forum/index.php/topic,12460.0.html).  Keeping an eye on the forthcoming Lustration - Psymbolik, as well.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Humanicide on July 14, 2012, 02:50:59 PM
Listen to Diocletian, faggoths.

Also, Heresiarch (http://www.deathmetal.org/forum/index.php/topic,12460.0.html).  Keeping an eye on the forthcoming Lustration - Psymbolik, as well.

Gonna go ahead and second Heresiarch. I absolutely adore the EP they put out recently. At first I thought it was dull in its seemingly monotonous blasting, but upon closer listening this band is like a fusion of Incantation and Conqueror. The attitude that the drummer approaches his instrument is similar to J. Read.  They really do excel at those crawling doom passages as found in "Carnivore" and "Intransigent". I'm really looking forward to what else they can cook up. "Conflagration" is my personal highlight.

Lustration sounds really boring based on the samples I heard. Maybe they're a grower too?
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Jim Necroslaughter on July 14, 2012, 05:31:24 PM
Listen to Diocletian, faggoths.

Also, Heresiarch (http://www.deathmetal.org/forum/index.php/topic,12460.0.html).  Keeping an eye on the forthcoming Lustration - Psymbolik, as well.

Gonna go ahead and second Heresiarch. I absolutely adore the EP they put out recently. At first I thought it was dull in its seemingly monotonous blasting, but upon closer listening this band is like a fusion of Incantation and Conqueror. The attitude that the drummer approaches his instrument is similar to J. Read.  They really do excel at those crawling doom passages as found in "Carnivore" and "Intransigent". I'm really looking forward to what else they can cook up. "Conflagration" is my personal highlight.

Lustration sounds really boring based on the samples I heard. Maybe they're a grower too?

Yes, my thoughts exactly.  "Conflagration" is the highlight of the album.  Love the kvlt pick slides as well!  This EP also reminds me that sometimes less is more, and that sometimes an EP is better than an LP.  I'm thinking war metal, in general, might lend itself better to releases in the 20 - 30 minute range.  I know this band shares members with Diocletian and I frankly liked this more than either of their LPs.  I wonder sometimes if musicians almost "loosen up" in their secondary projects?  My memory of Diocletian is that it sounded labored at times, whereas this EP just sound like the band is, forgive the cliche, "having fun."

RE:  Lustration.  Haha, actually I haven't even heard the samples, yet, and didn't even know they existed 'til a few weeks ago!  But I do visit NWN, saw them mentioned, saw they shared members with Spear of Longinus, saw their album cover has a pyramid, the Sphinx, a UFO, and a cobra on it, and saw that their new album will sound like Beherit+Blasphemy+Sodom+Hellhammer+Bathory!  (Doesn't every band's new album!?)  Joking aside, figured I would mention them since they're form Australia, share members with SOL and play "warish" metal.  I will definitely give the album a try when it comes out in a few weeks and posted in audiofile.  We shall see...
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: WAAAAAAGH! on July 14, 2012, 06:48:27 PM
I think relaxed is the word you are looking for. There's no pressure to meet a standard. More freedom and if it fails, it fails, no harm done.

Anyway, thank you for the hereiarch rec. This is top class stuff.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Nightspirit on July 14, 2012, 08:40:49 PM
This is popular right now: Death Metal that courts Black Metal lyric and aesthetic but sounds like Incantation, and Black Metal that courts Death Metal lyric and aesthetic but sounds like noisy evil grind.

Sure that's an insectic, arguably loose observation, but I think it serves to point out that metal is confused right now, and here's two alternatives that have arisen that bare the torches of kvltdom. Like it or not, these two "happenings" will bridge the existence of underground metal into their next phases.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Jim Necroslaughter on July 20, 2012, 08:06:07 AM
This is popular right now: Death Metal that courts Black Metal lyric and aesthetic but sounds like Incantation, and Black Metal that courts Death Metal lyric and aesthetic but sounds like noisy evil grind.

Sure that's an insectic, arguably loose observation, but I think it serves to point out that metal is confused right now, and here's two alternatives that have arisen that bare the torches of kvltdom. Like it or not, these two "happenings" will bridge the existence of underground metal into their next phases.
Do you think it's correct to say that the new Demoncy is Black Metal that courts Death Metal?
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: istaros on July 20, 2012, 03:01:13 PM
The album that Canada's REVENGE just released is very good. MARTIRE also just released their first LP on the same label, NWN.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: Nightspirit on July 20, 2012, 04:11:50 PM
This is popular right now: Death Metal that courts Black Metal lyric and aesthetic but sounds like Incantation, and Black Metal that courts Death Metal lyric and aesthetic but sounds like noisy evil grind.

Sure that's an insectic, arguably loose observation, but I think it serves to point out that metal is confused right now, and here's two alternatives that have arisen that bare the torches of kvltdom. Like it or not, these two "happenings" will bridge the existence of underground metal into their next phases.
Do you think it's correct to say that the new Demoncy is Black Metal that courts Death Metal?

I think that's a very great observation. Demoncy to me has always been a conundrum. That riffing style, for all intensive purposes we can call it the *Profacantahej* style, is not necessarily patented to either genre. Incantation and Profanatica/Havohej riffs are so very similar, even sharing certain riffs that these concurrent acts offer both genres exploration into this singular interpretation of the metal guitar playing style. I think that beyond Incantation and Profanatica/Havohej,  the Black Metal genre explored the possibilities of this first, and Demoncy being a high profile exemplar of such. Also, as Wicked Warlock, Ixithra probably learned how to play in this signature style from ex-Incantationers.

I've spoken to John McEntee about this guitar playing style and he told me that when he committed to playing guitar, he was very influenced by Blasphemy.

I don't think there's an answer at the end of the day... just a cool style of guitar playing and composition.
Title: Re: War metal
Post by: aquarius on July 25, 2012, 07:09:37 AM
I'm guessing the world will get increasingly messed up in the coming eras and that the transcendental/dissident genres of death metal and black metal will amalgamate into a stripped down, folkier version of its historical highlights. Until then, yes metal is very confused, searching for meaning in all the wrong places; thus no good releases these days.