100% Metal Forum (Death Metal and Black Metal)

Metal => Metal => Topic started by: Nightspirit on June 28, 2012, 05:57:30 AM

Title: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: Nightspirit on June 28, 2012, 05:57:30 AM
I really liked that article. A lot of good alchemy goes into making a "good" album, let alone a perfect album. Consistency is so very important, especially when presenting a 30-70 minute program. Something needs to marginalize it away from other exemplars both within and without a catalog. This might be why certain albums almost take on an identity of their own away from the band itself. When the music becomes more memorable than the group making it, there has to be a merit behind it. Many of those aforementioned albums in the article actually do take on this unique identity. The unfortunate problem that I think artists face is to keep the creative genius flowing and constantly pump out new, fresh ideas.

I have a legitimate question to further this discussion: Has there ever been a band (beyond 3 albums) that has kept this pattern going, as in creating album after album that ranks into the metal-landmark/ A-list category for their entire career?
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: infinitesimal on June 28, 2012, 11:38:58 AM
I think there is another thread asking more or less the same question but nevertheless,
Summoning and to a to lesser extent the works of Rob Draken and Ildjarn are all that come to mind.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: istaros on July 02, 2012, 10:04:13 AM
Agreed that Summoning, Graveland, and Ildjarn are pretty much it. The only addition that comes to my mind is Beherit - although they barely have three LP's, all of them but HV1.whatever are excellent, and they're spread out over a long (albeit interrupted) career. Strange that no death metal bands come to mind.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: WAAAAAAGH! on July 02, 2012, 10:24:10 AM
Averse sefira sort of qualify. Their first release is not exactly A material. They did however improve on every release until disbanding. A rare quality.

I have not listening to any Bolt Thrower after ....for victory but they come to mind as being consistently excellent until that point at least.

Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: Grim Morrison on July 02, 2012, 11:32:01 AM
The Chasm
Gorguts - across 4 albums
Manilla Road (pretty much everything across a 3 decade existence is gold)
Mortem from Peru - 4 releases so far, each one better than the one before.

Several (Immolation, Slayer, Bathory, King Diamond with Fate and solo in the 80s... spring immediately to mind) have released 4/5/6 good/great albums and then sort of lost the edge..
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: hell on July 03, 2012, 08:47:13 AM
I just saw the show of IMMOLATION, and confirms your questions.
 they are certainly within the first.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: istaros on July 03, 2012, 09:31:21 AM
I considered Averse Sefira, The Chasm, and Manilla Road as well. All exist within the upper echelon of metal, but none within the incomparably uppermost tier. The Chasm had a couple of mediocre releases, so did Manilla Road(plus one AWFUL album that shouldn't have really been released under the band's name in the first place). It is true that all three maintained quality (overall) throughout their careers, though.

Immolation is squarely in the crap zone by now. Third Gorguts starts getting goofy, fourth is junk. I haven't listened to anything but snippets from Bolt Thrower after ...For Victory either, but it doesn't seem worth much; like WAAGH said, great up until then. There are innumerable death metal bands that followed this course; the question is which bands both a) had many releases and b) never deviated. That disqualifies Bathory, Slayer, Mercyful Fate, Asphyx, Morbid Angel, Suffocation, Massacra, Pestilence, Candlemass, Burzum, Enslaved, and countless others. Same goes for Darkthrone, by the way, who are specifically interesting because their descent was so gradual - everything up to Transilvanian Hunger was excellent, Panzerfaust was pretty good, and then the next couple of albums were OK... and then...

Although I did just remember another band that might be worth including: Skepticism.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: WAAAAAAGH! on July 03, 2012, 12:18:47 PM
I can handle the new darkthrone under the influence of beer and comrades because I see them merely as entertainers these days.

Gorguts third album really reveals itself after multiple listens. Admittedly, I hated it for years. The following album is more immediately pleasing but falls flat on its face after a second or third spin. Well executed garbage.

When you really take the upper most tier of metal, every single one of them took a nose dive into horrible at some point. The most consistent bands never truly reached the summit. Neither did they drop mountaineering for lance Armstrong impersonators either.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: hell on July 03, 2012, 12:24:19 PM
Could you be more specific with Immolation.
 In fact I thought of Bathory and also Marduk.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: WAAAAAAGH! on July 03, 2012, 01:25:08 PM
Requiem destroyer of worlds and octagon are all completely disposable works by bathory. Not pandering low but nothing of measurable quality either. Perfect careers is the name of the game here. Marduk is just redundant. Its existence has not once managed to fill a single void to justify itself.

I feel like Inquisition should be considered for this list. At the very least in terms of consistent quality. The middle albums are the weakest while the most recent two are the best of their work thus far. I know these guys aren't fairly popular but I believe their work has merit.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: Discharged on July 04, 2012, 01:45:40 PM
I feel like Inquisition should be considered for this list. At the very least in terms of consistent quality. The middle albums are the weakest while the most recent two are the best of their work thus far. I know these guys aren't fairly popular but I believe their work has merit.

they are like one the biggest metal bands around?? what do you mean not popular lol
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: Examiner on July 04, 2012, 03:58:46 PM
Inquisition doesn`t seem to get enough notice here, having carved a sound that can be easily distinguished from the rest of the modern metal ilk. This should itself be noteworthy at a moment when most metal either emulates the past in form and/or structure, or just churns out indie carnival music.

I would also argue that Mgła has been highly consistent, but so far its mainly been disregarded as rock music.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: Discharged on July 05, 2012, 09:40:59 AM
Inquisition doesn`t seem to get enough notice here, having carved a sound that can be easily distinguished from the rest of the modern metal ilk. This should itself be noteworthy at a moment when most metal either emulates the past in form and/or structure, or just churns out indie carnival music.
\

I love OSDM and modern bands that work to achieve that same feel, but also I would much rather the newest wave of metal bands look forward to new directions in their playing style. INQUISITION is a 2 piece band that can emulate their studio sound in a live setting. The riffs that Dagon has written covers all octaves of both guitar and bass, something that is rare to hear.

Plus the fact that they started in Colombia as a Thrash Band then morphed into the more blasphemous black metal band they are now.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: Humanicide on July 05, 2012, 12:00:18 PM
Though I personally do not enjoy Inquisition's music, I would say that their consistent stylistic development and avoidance of incorporating most "trendy" influences into their art qualifies them for an honorable mention in career-wide coherency.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: hell on July 05, 2012, 01:12:48 PM
Black Sabbath (I hear about Eternal Idol now).
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: WAAAAAAGH! on July 05, 2012, 02:51:44 PM
My popularity comment was directed towards the DLA mostly. I appreciate the objectivity humanicide.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: istaros on July 05, 2012, 09:30:44 PM
I like Inquisition. Their last album was pretty damn good. The first one is worth a mention as well. All the stuff in between... meh. Decent. The band has never been A-grade, but never made anything shitty either.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: Nightspirit on July 08, 2012, 05:53:46 AM
A friend once said to me: "I don't think Pantera ever had a style, they just wanted to play."

I always knew there was something of value in that statement. Inquisition is much like Burzum rather than Pantera, in that Burzum is one of the best examples in metal of completely lacking a "style" or condensing your career into a predictable format. Inquisition plays out very much the same way. This is something I love about them in that they're diverse and there's variety in the music. Definitely one of the, if not the best concurrent act playing today.

I hope www.deathmetal.org will endorse them.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: Examiner on July 09, 2012, 07:10:07 AM
A friend once said to me: "I don't think ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? ever had a style, they just wanted to play."

I always knew there was something of value in that statement. Inquisition is much like Burzum rather than ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME?, in that Burzum is one of the best examples in metal of completely lacking a "style" or condensing your career into a predictable format. Inquisition plays out very much the same way. This is something I love about them in that they're diverse and there's variety in the music. Definitely one of the, if not the best concurrent act playing today.

I hope www.deathmetal.org will endorse them.

I don`t understand exactly what you and your friend mean by this "style". I find that most rock music, including metal and its derivatives has a certain "style", or another. Metal bands usually adopt a certain style and deviations from that style will mostly end in a failure.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: Nightspirit on July 14, 2012, 08:51:22 PM
A friend once said to me: "I don't think ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? ever had a style, they just wanted to play."

I always knew there was something of value in that statement. Inquisition is much like Burzum rather than ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME?, in that Burzum is one of the best examples in metal of completely lacking a "style" or condensing your career into a predictable format. Inquisition plays out very much the same way. This is something I love about them in that they're diverse and there's variety in the music. Definitely one of the, if not the best concurrent act playing today.

I hope www.deathmetal.org will endorse them.

I don`t understand exactly what you and your friend mean by this "style". I find that most rock music, including metal and its derivatives has a certain "style", or another. Metal bands usually adopt a certain style and deviations from that style will mostly end in a failure.

I think: the following...

... and I could be wrong; I wouldn't contest it if I was...

What I mean is that until the newer Burzum albums, you could listen to the catalog from S/T to Hlidskjalf with *almost* no two songs sounding alike. Each track takes on it's own identity in most cases. I can't listen to a band and say "That sounds like Burzum" but rather, "Oh that sounds like _________ Burzum song," which is why I've noticed a lot of people accusing others of stealing Burzum riffs or writing riffs that are too derivative of Burzum. Since each song is so different, I think fans have become really attached to the identity of each track. Inquisition carries their writing style in the same manner.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: Examiner on July 15, 2012, 05:24:31 AM
I consider style to be an aesthetic and to some degree a compositional distinction.

I wouldn`t consider rehashing riffs and beats for example as so much a stylistic distinction as a structural one.
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: Arctic Sun on July 15, 2012, 07:30:01 AM
Morbid Angel's first three along with the live album for sure.  After that the lineup and attitude of the band basically changed so the rest of it doesn't count in my book (I enjoy F but it was just Trey having fun and living off the advice of motivational speakers, which shows).

Burzum made it work for three albums, and so did Darkthrone., Vader, Bolthower, Immolation, Black Sabbath, Summoning, Metallica.  Three or four seems to be about the limit for a band whose style has so many riffs in a brief period and lives so fast, although Summoning and maybe Graveland strikes me as an exception in that regard since they don't tour and never got involved in criminal behavior.

Plus the shitty deals these guys were given for writing music that almost never turned into a living makes it hard to believe there's as much quality material as there is, especially given how volatile the labels were.  They usually have to support themselves with other jobs, after all. 
Title: Re: Das Perfekte Album
Post by: Gefechtsgruppe10 on November 03, 2012, 04:42:11 PM
Plus the shitty deals these guys were given for writing music that almost never turned into a living makes it hard to believe there's as much quality material as there is, especially given how volatile the labels were.  They usually have to support themselves with other jobs, after all.

It seems that the quality of the music is a result of the bands themselves wanting to make great music and being willing to support their love of music with a day job.  They want to make music, not 'be a musician.'  Looking at many classical composers they too had to support their composition with shitty jobs teaching pupils and such.  Graveland's 20 year existence is pretty amazing in this light as I doubt gaspodin Darken makes enough money on his musical output to live; selling a few thousand (I presume) records a year does not a musical career make.  Maybe the shitty deals these guys were given helped keep the legions of shitflingers at bay and allowed the talented to stand out above a herd that had been substantially thinned by market forces... at least until all of the hard work of the truly talented originators payed off and allowed the legions of shitflingers to get good deals playing mediocre knockoffs.