100% Metal Forum (Death Metal and Black Metal)

Metal => Metal => Topic started by: born for banning on January 15, 2007, 04:04:41 PM

Title: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on January 15, 2007, 04:04:41 PM
I've always known this society was a big screwup. It happened the first time I saw rotting buildings, people living in their own feces and then cops handing out traffic tickets a block away. I asked a parent and they said it is how it is and nothing changes. I knew then that adults were gripped by some insanity and something had gone terribly wrong. Now that I'm older and have read and learned more, I know that our society is simply a series of bad ideas that haven't yet blown up in our faces but will.

So when I'm hanging out and thinking metal with my headbanger friends, the idea always comes up of just running away. Get away to some other place where the rules of metal can reign. Assuming that you had $20,000 in cash and a mid-sized small island for your own use, could you and ten friends start a metal society? Here's my guess as to what it would be like.

* No one would have dumpy names like Bill and Steve and Phil and Rashadi. They'd all sound like Summoning members with names like Eviscerator and Doomlord and Christvomit.

* People would be very blunt and honest. Draguwrath should do this instead of Sodomlord because Draguwrath is smarter.

* There would be no tolerance for stupidity. A circle of headbangers would surround new morons and beat them to death with Cradle of Filth CDs.

* Women would be expected to be like the cool princesses in Tolkien, or utter leather sluts. The sluts would end up getting beaten with Cradle of Filth CDs.

* There would be some kind of powerful king, who would rule with an iron hand, just because it sounds really cool.

* There would be executions which would resemble ritual dances.

* People would do what they did for work so they could stay in society, but otherwise, they would probably be left alone. I think a metal society would have money of some kind.

* The NSBM bands would have their own corner of the city where nothing worked, everyone was drunk and angry and people provoke them by throwing Hirax CDs over the wall.

* Drugs would not only be legal but a form of currency.

* Cars and computers and stuff wouldn't exist like it is now. They would not be used for practical reasons, but exclusively for fun. Practical stuff would be gotten out of the way quickly because it's boring.

* No insurance, no churches.

* The postal service would ship everything in CD boxes.

I wonder what else would come to mind if I thought of this more. I'm certain I'm not the only one, and if it made enough sense, I might sign up for it.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Walt on January 16, 2007, 03:24:17 AM
All dwellings must take the form of jungletop tree huts.

All literature somehow involves the works of Tolkien.

Atmosphere is regulated such that O2 levels rise enough for things to instantaneosly combust.

All places of dwelling built as medieval castles.

Morons genetically engineered to secrete hydrocarbons from sacs on the back.

Grocery lists and the local newspaper to be considered literature.

Slightly more seriously:
A band of savages given a portion of the island such that one day our society could make war on them.

Sustainable supply of game to hunt.

Communal dinner/feast around a bonfire at least every week.

Goodly amount of war paint to don while hunting game and savages.

Wood for bonfires.

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Stranger on January 16, 2007, 05:31:42 AM
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I've been here so long I forgot how to recognize humor.  Now I also don't remember how to respond to it.


I'm feeling a bit like this too. I'd prefer to have a society much like the Swiss:

Get your shit done
Create top-notch products
Uphold traditions
Have fun at appropriate times
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: scourge on January 16, 2007, 08:18:58 AM
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A band of savages given a portion of the island such that one day our society could make war on them.


Quote
Goodly amount of war paint to don while hunting game and savages.


This part I like. Except I would replace savages with reality show guests and crowds of other tourists from affluent societies. They can bring modern firearms and the Hessians will use blades or 17th century muzzle loaders to even the odds.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: 8dj47ghj349gf on January 17, 2007, 08:45:50 AM
Putting aside all the ridiculous details for a moment, a more Metal version of our society would be a lot like the one we have now - except with a lot less moronic Judeo-Christian morality (egalitarianism + utilitarianism), bureaucracy, and consumerism.  

Our society is sick and failing because it suffers from these problems.  Thus we need to strive for post-moral, post-political forms of government.  

You can start here:

LNSGP (http://www.nazi.org)

Pragma (http://www.pragmatism.us/)

List of Nationalist Parties by Nation (http://www.nazi.org/community/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1147538841/11#11)
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: death metal black metal on January 17, 2007, 09:31:07 AM
I'd like to keep actual politics out of this, but I think a metal society would look like the early days of ancient Greece. Lots of people in the grip of mystical imagination, waging war and building great buildings, writing great art, living epic lives, and unconcerned whether they'd be "remembered."

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: 8dj47ghj349gf on January 17, 2007, 11:41:32 AM
I always thought it was kinda the other way around about your last point there ; that the ancients were more concerned about being remembered than us moderns.  The tale of Achilles comes to mind, he was told by an oracle that he could stay home and live a long and happy life w many of his own children and an attractive women by his side, or go to war at Troy and forever be a ledgend (except that he's guarenteed to die young).  

If Modern proles were more concerned with being remembered than the ancients, then society wouldn't be so plastic and boring; I guarentee you that much.

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: The internet shelters weaklings. on January 17, 2007, 01:51:42 PM
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I always thought it was kinda the other way around about your last point there ; that the ancients were more concerned about being remembered than us moderns.  The tale of Achilles comes to mind, he was told by an oracle that he could stay home and live a long and happy life w many of his own children and an attractive women by his side, or go to war at Troy and forever be a ledgend (except that he's guarenteed to die young).  

If Modern proles were more concerned with being remembered than the ancients, then society wouldn't be so plastic and boring; I guarentee you that much.



I disagree.

I think modern society does these things while wanting to be remembered even more. That's what makes it so insane.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: rwja on January 17, 2007, 02:49:11 PM
Somewhere on anus.com I saw the phrase "Only death is real" and that would sum up the philosophy of a metal society in a nutshell. Hopefully children would not be subjected to dogmatic beliefs, but they should be ingrained with the realization they are mortal and all humans have the same fate. If a child grows up unable to accept this he/she should have freedom taken away and be forced into a slave camp or put to death.

Hopefully, outgrowth of this philosophy would cause people to be more liberated from trivial social conventions. Physical appearance, fashion, ethnicity, luxuries: these things would be diminished in value and no one would ridicule others for being different from them in this regard, because it would be realized upon one's death these things are pretty much irrelevant.

So I see a metal society being more tolerant; character, integrity and morality would be more valued so as to lessen suffering during one's time on earth. Frivolous cultural elements would be discouraged, not by force but by the will of people, and common culture would not be enforced but hopefully celebrated upon one's blossoming of intellect and judgment. There would be no sitcoms or celebrity gossip.

JMO
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: rwja on January 17, 2007, 02:51:17 PM
Suicide would be encouraged conditionally, permitting it's not simply done on impulse and permitting the suicidee does not have obligation toward others' basic needs at the time.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: death metal black metal on January 18, 2007, 08:44:27 AM
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No Jews or african-americans.


As it is now, I think each ethnic group would proudly produce its own metal and rule itself. My intention in discussing any related issues has never been to exclude or discriminate (http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/hate) against other ethnic groups, but to point out that we're all happiest when ruling ourselves and we're miserable as a cultureless grey race (http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/race) lumpenproletariat serving cultureless valueless corporations and idiot public image governments. There's nothing wrong with ethnic pride (http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/nazi), if you use it to eliminate parasites (http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/marxism) and wrongdoers, raise intelligence and character standards in your group, and fight back against stupidity.

I like the comment about "Only Death Is Real," which we lifted from a Hellhammer booklet, but it's true. Death is real, and life is a dream, but we can make it a beautiful dream instead of being terrified by its realness. This is the essence of idealism (http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/perfect/), of mythic imagination (http://www.anus.com/zine/db/friedrich_nietzsche/friedrich_nietzsche-on_truth_and_lies_in_a_non-moral_sense/) and pagan religions (http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/nature).

Quote
Physical appearance, fashion, ethnicity, luxuries: these things would be diminished in value and no one would ridicule others for being different from them in this regard, because it would be realized upon one's death these things are pretty much irrelevant.


There's a fine line between nihilism and fatalism: it is one thing to see the arbitrary nature of life, and another to understand its mechanism and value its methods. Appearance, ability and wealth will always be unequal, and every ethnic group will always be better off with self-rule; however, fashion and luxuries and entertainment are transient garbage that help no one.

Quote
So I see a metal society being more tolerant; character, integrity and morality would be more valued so as to lessen suffering during one's time on earth. Frivolous cultural elements would be discouraged, not by force but by the will of people, and common culture would not be enforced but hopefully celebrated upon one's blossoming of intellect and judgment. There would be no sitcoms or celebrity gossip.


I think it would be more tolerant, but within a narrower range of behaviors, and the rest of this paragraph is pure gold and I wish I'd written it myself :)

(http://public.srce.hr/husar/Greek%20Hoplite%205th%20Cent%20BC.jpg)
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Dionysius on January 19, 2007, 02:04:05 PM
Return of gladiatorial games, this time accompanied by metal music and followed by metal festivals.

An emphasis on heroism and death defiance in culture, philosophy and behaviour.

All drugs and weapons legalized. Each city has a ruling senate who decides most issues including banishment of individuals.

There will still be a ruling elite that controls the masses (I can't imagine a country full of responsible metalheads that don't need some form of control)

Monuments built in honor of metal. Slavery legalized. Classes in metal practice and history part of standard education.


Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on January 20, 2007, 07:46:44 AM
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As it is now, I think each ethnic group would proudly produce its own metal and rule itself. My intention in discussing any related issues has never been to exclude or discriminate (http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/hate) against other ethnic groups, but to point out that we're all happiest when ruling ourselves and we're miserable as a cultureless grey race (http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/race) lumpenproletariat serving cultureless valueless corporations and idiot public image governments. There's nothing wrong with ethnic pride (http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/nazi), if you use it to eliminate parasites (http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/marxism) and wrongdoers, raise intelligence and character standards in your group, and fight back against stupidity.



I'm glad to see you agree with my no Jews or african-americans stance.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on January 21, 2007, 06:51:48 PM
Public education favors ancient history.

Guitars sold in hardware stores.

Mass graves of people who liked nu-metal outside the cities.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: fronk696 on January 21, 2007, 07:38:00 PM
Yeah, born for banning summed up a metal society pretty much perfectly.  You just missed ONE THING:

- There would be laws on hair-styles.

Everyone would be required to have long hair or have totally shaved heads.  NO in-betweens.  Goaties would be optional unless you have a shaven head then U MUST have a goatie.  Anyone with flat-tops or other fashionable hairstyles will be instantly executed.

Ha ha ha!!! I'd be dead in a second.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Dionysius on January 23, 2007, 09:03:17 AM
Don't think the concept is impossible. Here are some freetown projects:


http://www.ruigoord.nl/ (Netherlands)

http://www.christiania.org/ (Denmark)

http://www.orania.co.za/ (South Africa)

http://www.freestateproject.org/ (USA)


I think it would be possible to start a metal-town if you know the right people and the right things to do. But if you're just going to be obsessive about "who to kill when in charge" you're going to get nowhere just like most extreme political organisations in the west. If anyone wants to discuss this topic in a more serious manner just say so, otherwise despite it's good intention this is just another joke thread.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: death metal black metal on January 23, 2007, 11:14:01 AM
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But if you're just going to be obsessive about "who to kill when in charge" you're going to get nowhere just like most extreme political organisations in the west.


That's the problem with revolutions, and revolutionary thinking, in general.

Metal as Revolutionary (http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/YaBB.cgi?board=metal_talk;action=display;num=1168650384)

Some interesting commentary there. I'd like to see a metal society built around positive values with some kind of economic model so it doesn't collapse inward like every commune and alternate society to date.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on January 23, 2007, 02:15:30 PM
how would it be run, would it be a democracy, communism, dictatorship

this seems like the biggest problem for having a healthy working society
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: scourge on January 23, 2007, 02:23:20 PM
An anti-modern Hessian society would not adopt a prepackaged, freeze dried, vacuum sealed, FDA safety approved microwaveable modern government structure. Leaders would rise and the rest would follow or take an exit. The best leaders would determine rulership.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on January 23, 2007, 02:28:12 PM
but what happens when a person thinks the leaders actions aren't up to standard but the leader himself refuses this claim, what happens when the community is split in two or the leader does not resign when the majority of the populace are opposed to his rules
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: fronk696 on January 23, 2007, 03:02:03 PM
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but what happens when a person thinks the leaders actions aren't up to standard but the leader himself refuses this claim, what happens when the community is split in two or the leader does not resign when the majority of the populace are opposed to his rules


Ah ha!! You nailed it right on the bone.  Exactly.  I like that you say "when" and not "If", because if a metal society is established, THAT WILL HAPPEN.  Its nothing new when a whole splits(societies in general).  It has happened all the time.  BUT here's the thing: when it has happened in other societies, it has always been the case where the majority are drones (simple) and there is like 1 or 2 or maybe even 3 exceptionals(leader material).  The drones WILL follow 1 of the exceptionals and so will the other 2.  BUT each of the other 2 won't want to except following because they believe their way is better.  So eventually the drones will find the exceptionallity of one of the other 2 AND THEN SPLIT.

NOW, here is where a metal society is in BIG BIG TROUBLE.  MOST of the population of a metal society would be exceptional and only a few drones will exist.   There would be NO end to the constant fighting, bickering on how to establish a system that works.  NO END.  It'll be RIPPED apart. Not split in two.  LOOK!! It's happened already with the music itself.  The Metal genre is SO vast.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: oscar the cat on January 24, 2007, 02:29:13 AM
A good leader knows when to tell an idiot to go away, and all good societies form because the people are on the same wavelength. You don't invite people who are gonna suddenly think they're Jesus.

The "It'll never work!" people bore me to no end. Stay in your basements, and never attempt anything. You'll never look foolish, and that's what you really wanted, isn't it?
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on January 24, 2007, 10:18:04 AM
i never said it would never work, i was simple saying that a suitable form of government needs to exist

There need to be those that don't always approve of something, otherwise communism and willing dictatorship happens (as can be seen in Hitlers rise to power and the fall of the Russian monarchy)

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: fronk696 on January 24, 2007, 10:52:35 AM
Who said that you said it'll never work.  Societies splitting needs to happen sometimes.  I'M saying it will NEVER WORK!!!!!  Period.  That's just me, and I'm pessimistic, considering ALL members of a metal society would be either:  insane, on drugs, overly emotional(too hateful, too depressed, etc), overly passionate, optionated, anti-establishment, anarchistic, sociopaths, misanthropists, etc, etc the list goes on.

You need the simple drones to make a successful society.  The drones need to be the ones who simply, like you put it "approve of something" to keep the "foundations" of the society to work.  What you also need is good leaders, like some of you said.  We know metal-heads.  Apart from the list on paragraph 1, most metallers are anti-hero.  Anti-leader.  

IT WILL NOT WORK!!!!  Or it might, IF you eliminate DRUGS from the society.  Period.  BUT, Ha ha ha ha.......I don't see that happening.

It's cool to entertain the thought though.

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on January 24, 2007, 11:06:16 AM
most of the people you mentioned would be excluded from living within the society though, you just seem to be thinking of the majority,  remember people who attend this site are a niche inside a niche, there would be enough people in the world to create such a society

but the idea of drones doesn't make sense in a metal society since it promotes intelligent thinking, freedom of thought and heavily promotes nihilism, and you cant be a nihilist and a drone

To be a drone implies that they live in a dogmatic world and thats one of the things that metal is very against, dogmatic views that have punishment if crossed
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on January 24, 2007, 11:06:23 AM
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There need to be those that don't always approve of something


As long as they agree on the basic goal it should be fine.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: fronk696 on January 24, 2007, 12:42:48 PM
Look, I was gonna say that the people on this forum (and I've been to many metal-forums) are probably the most intelligent, articulate and open-minded metalheads I've EVER encountered with good command of your language.  BUT, we must understand that the majority of metalheads ARE NOT like you guys.  EVEN the bands THEMSELVES, (the ones who create the music) most of them are bigoted, hateful jerks that wish for the end of the world.

How can you create a society, where the FIRST course of action would be, KILL!!!!!!RAPE!!!!!!! MAIM!!!!!!! DESTROY!!!!!!!! How?  

If you expel the morons, you'd be a society of like 12 people.  Slight exaggeration but you get the drift.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on January 24, 2007, 04:21:28 PM
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How can you create a society, where the FIRST course of action would be, KILL!!!!!!RAPE!!!!!!! MAIM!!!!!!! DESTROY!!!!!!!!


You want the people in charge who know who to kill and who not to. But it's a problem. Everything has problems. We go on anyway and sometimes create greatness. Do we give up before we're defeated?
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on January 24, 2007, 04:30:45 PM
There would be a tightly knit circle of elders whose divine wisdom and grace would direct our movement and society as a whole. there would be a large number of (warrior) people strictly loyal to the elder circle to carry out our ideology. the rest of the people would live their lives as encouraged. the population would never need to rise. fair features and intelligence, strength and nobility would be enhanced through eugenics and strong societal and family bonds. no immigrants.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on January 24, 2007, 04:58:22 PM
the problem would be how to choose such elders, how to prove there intelligence and how to make sure the will do what is best for the community
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: LostWithin on January 24, 2007, 05:03:45 PM
Not to mention when they have ceased to be productive.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: scourge on January 24, 2007, 06:28:33 PM
The unproductive would not enjoy pizza, beer and electricity every night. The unmotivated could sleep all day in the cold or heat without music. Hunger comes along real quick though.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on January 25, 2007, 03:27:39 AM
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the problem would be how to choose such elders, how to prove there intelligence and how to make sure the will do what is best for the community



we'll work it out when we get there.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on January 25, 2007, 09:16:09 AM
you need to have some sort of a plan, especially for the way the society is going to be run
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on January 25, 2007, 12:59:49 PM
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the problem would be how to choose such elders, how to prove there intelligence and how to make sure the will do what is best for the community


Find the people who are the most intelligent, have the best character, and are healthy. Pick those to pick a leader.

¡Problem solved!
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on January 25, 2007, 01:33:47 PM
but who picks them? perhaps the person (or people) who organizes the whole affair, but who is to say if that person has the ability to choose those elders, or do we need to someone smart enough to choose the people smart enough to run the community, but then who chooses that person?
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: scourge on January 25, 2007, 08:00:01 PM
Might as well make a democracy if you have everyone choosing leaders. Society's needs will quickly develop, becoming apparent to all and leaders will naturally respond. The successful response to society need determines fit leadership and what follows is everyone's approval. Democracy has it backwards.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Brutally Sodomized on January 25, 2007, 11:11:06 PM
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the problem would be how to choose such elders, how to prove there intelligence and how to make sure the will do what is best for the community


Leaders naturally come along out of necessity. The better quality the population, the more likely it is you will have good leaders. My guess is a bunch of fans of Morbid Angel or Darkthrone might have a shot at creating civilization were they given the right situation.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Horrific Prophecies on January 26, 2007, 03:17:59 AM
I think the hardest parts to organise would be:

1. The land. Where would this metal civilization be? Someone earlier mentioned squatting. Squatting is not for a large group of people wishing to leave society. Although it shouldn't be so, every piece of land on earth (as far as I know) is owned by some government. Living on this land means everyone would have to subject to their laws, their punishments, their TAX (fuck!), etc: all the bad things that come with idiotic modern ruling.
What would we do? Buy a giant piece of land and ask them to remove it from their country? As if any government is just going to hand over land for a new country consisting solely of war-mongering society-hating metalheads.

As fun as it could briefly be, waging war upon a country for a piece of their land probably wouldnt do much good.

2. Things we'd need from modern society.
We cant make our own electric plants, computers, hospital equipment, internet, etc. Can we? How would we get stuff like this in this society?

3. People.
Sure, there would be plenty of people willing to do this (fuck, i'm in), but what are the chances of there being enough numbers of:
-doctors/surgeons/other medical-sort
-builders/plumbers/electricians/etc
-women (important: I can't be the only one who thinks most people on this forum are male)
- ...fuck it, im too tired. All the kinds of positions this society/country would need.

If the numbers arent high enough in these sorts of fields, do we seek others and try convince them to come live in our world? I'm sure thered be more than a few rejections there.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on January 26, 2007, 10:44:15 AM
we would still have to be dependent on modern society to provide us wit things we need but thats fine, if we didn't buy these things the same amount of trees would be cut down, the same amount of pollution put in the earth, as this being a nihilist forum people should recognizes that the logical answer is to use these resources and not be caught up in some moral judgment about "i don't wanna take part in harming the planet"

but you did have a point about how we would pay for such things, how would we earn any money, farming perhaps
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Solitude on January 27, 2007, 12:55:40 AM
i personally think that such a society is clearly utopic, but i cannot support this affirmation given the fact that my english is very poor, so i rather not

anyway, a more realistic aproach on this matter would be, that of creating some kind of lodge, consisting solely of elites. As you know the world is full of different kinds of organizations, lodges etc., so a nihilistic lodge/society would  be rather  natural, especialy given the times of this era.

This 'society' could buy some terrains in different parts of the planet and build Temples, where all should meet from time to time to discuss the most important empiric/spiritual problems. Of course this org. will develop it's own philosophy and ways of aproaching life.

So, this would imply that the individuals forming this society would still live in society, but some will problably chouse to stay at the temple.

There is a big difference between a nihilistic view and a sceptic one, and once and for all Nietzsche was a nihilist only if you raport him with the society,   but in philosophy he was not nihilistic but a sceptic, just read 'the gay science'.. so was cioran and schopenhauer.
..no dogmas, no rules... just ONE: when staying at the temple the factors coming from the outside world will never be discussed or even thinked, because if you raport your self to the issues of this mediocre outside society you become the sum of it (read Freud and Jung my friends), you become a misanthrope, but since this sistem is so mediocre why should we waste our time.

ps: i'm afraid that some people/individuals in this forums really have no idea whatsoever what implyes nihilsm or or such a 'clair-obscur' philosophy in general...it's a shame
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Horrific Prophecies on January 31, 2007, 11:28:23 PM
I think the biggest question is; are there enough people who would partake in this?

Solitude's idea would probably be the easiest to implement...but where would these "temples" (that title could be worked on..) go? And who would fund them?

Does anyone know of any medievalist societies? I have heard of them on a tv show once.
Or at least anything like that: a society that in a sense returns to a medievalist or ancient way of life?
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on February 01, 2007, 11:22:49 AM
Quote

I think this is important. In this modern world, it would not make sense to not utilise things made by modern man. Technology + the internet = important means for communicating, learning, entertaining, etc.

What you said about harming the planet and such, it is not complete folly to think this way. I hate the way thousands and thousands of (probably millions really) animals are born and bred for the purpose of food. Their whole life leads towards a slaughterhouse death. The people who do this to them are horrible, yet refusing to buy/eat this meat won't change a thing. However, there is no harm in refusing to give money to giant corporations like McDonalds, and ones that are harmful to the environment. There are plenty of fish in the sea. There's no need to give money to Children of Bodom when there's Dark Tranquillity.


woah slow down on the meat bashing there, veggie. vikings didn't live on prunes.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: kontinual on February 01, 2007, 12:11:21 PM
Apologies to Anteru for accidentally deleting the post that Blitzkrieg quoted.

I thought this was funny, though:
Quote
There's no need to give money to Children of Bodom when there's Dark Tranquillity.


I would also like to add, in light of your post and the above wisdom, that there is no need to give your money to McDonalds when there is Burger King.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Niko on February 01, 2007, 12:37:03 PM
Apparently we haven't been praising Sacramentum enough
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Horrific Prophecies on February 01, 2007, 01:45:14 PM
 :-/ Thanks Kontinual

Blitzkrieg, if you actually read what i posted properly you wouldn't have said i was "meat-bashing". I eat meat, you prune.

And LOL at Kontinual and Nikolai_Fokov. How about "There's no need to give your money to Children of Bodom when there's Sacramentum."
I just put the first good mdm band that came to mind, as CoB are usually called mdm. Sacramentum, even with their mdm influence, are more closely related to bm.
This however, has nothing to do with a metal society.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: oscar the cat on February 01, 2007, 02:03:28 PM
Quote
This however, has nothing to do with a metal society.


Except to prove that this group isn't ready.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: ICONEGRO on February 01, 2007, 03:46:21 PM
Quote
I'd like to keep actual politics out of this, but I think a metal society would look like the early days of ancient Greece. Lots of people in the grip of mystical imagination, waging war and building great buildings, writing great art, living epic lives, and unconcerned whether they'd be "remembered."



And pederasty.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: ICONEGRO on February 01, 2007, 03:55:36 PM
Quote

Leaders naturally come along out of necessity. The better quality the population, the more likely it is you will have good leaders. My guess is a bunch of fans of Morbid Angel or Darkthrone might have a shot at creating civilization were they given the right situation.


I say we just have a contest to see who has the best death metal vocals and make them president of our little island.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on February 06, 2007, 12:18:05 PM
Quote
I say we just have a contest to see who has the best death metal vocals and make them president of our little island.


Not witty.

I say we talk seriously about acquiring land near a mid-size city for a metal sub-civilization, so when the rest collapses we can be ready :)
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on February 06, 2007, 04:55:38 PM
but we would rely on the larger civilization to provide us with what we need, when society collapses those society that are dependent on it will also collapse
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: kontinual on February 06, 2007, 04:58:56 PM
Quote

Not witty.

I say we talk seriously about acquiring land near a mid-size city for a metal sub-civilization, so when the rest collapses we can be ready :)


What climate are we seeking?  Natural features?

[Serious questions]
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: LostWithin on February 06, 2007, 05:29:06 PM
Mountainous, forested ie Montana, Colorado, Wyoming(without the bullshit racism), some parts of Utah or California.

Just personal preference/opinion, so I'm open for compromise.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on February 06, 2007, 06:24:05 PM
i would be more inclined to eastern Europe, mostly because of how sparingly the population is spread out
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Dionysius on February 07, 2007, 04:46:37 AM
Quote
I say we talk seriously about acquiring land near a mid-size city for a metal sub-civilization, so when the rest collapses we can be ready


Since you're talking about this publicly on the web and seem to have no experience in anything remotely like this, I assume you're just having a wank. Nothing wrong with that, needs to happen every now and then. Here's a nice glossy magazine for you: Private Islands (http://www.privateislandsonline.com/)
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: kontinual on February 07, 2007, 10:24:16 AM
Quote
i would be more inclined to eastern Europe, mostly because of how sparingly the population is spread out


I don't have the data in front of me, but portions of the American West are likely more sparse in population than Eastern Europe...I could be wrong.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Arctic Sun on February 07, 2007, 06:24:01 PM
Quote

I don't have the data in front of me, but portions of the American West are likely more sparse in population than Eastern Europe...I could be wrong.


That can most likely be chalked up to national parks, privately owned (or reserved) land, and/or a severe lack of water in the area.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: kontinual on February 08, 2007, 02:47:56 AM
Quote

That can most likely be chalked up to national parks, privately owned (or reserved) land, and/or a severe lack of water in the area.


You're certainly right.  Much of it is publicly owned non-parkland, as well, but some opportunities are still there.

According to this (http://soils.usda.gov/use/worldsoils/mapindex/popden.jpg), population density in Eastern Europe is quite high.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on February 08, 2007, 06:20:36 PM
by the looks of it Canada seems very suitable, but as arctic son said it could probably be owned by individuals (or company's or the government) even if people do not dwell in such places

note: it was an auto correct spelling device (or the work of an admin) that made me say Aidsland, i meant to say C.A.N.A.D.A
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: glinda on February 09, 2007, 02:10:05 PM
People could always just pick one of those little shit towns that only have like 100 people who live there, take the town over by sheer fact of literally hundreds of metalheads moving there, and begin elections, buying/establishing businesses, homes, etc, begin elections, and that would be that. Living within the system, yet establishing a somewhat different society within the system. Have the equivalent of town meetings, have those willing to moderate conduct these meetings in order to sort everything out. It's just like anything else, everybody would kind of naturally take their places within the town, instant metal society.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: KIRK JOHNSON on February 11, 2007, 05:54:58 AM
very interesting thread.
The posibility would be intreeging, but i doubt people would actually want a metal town in the middle of nowhere, so that's why i think , if possible, it should be somewhat far, yet close to a major city, so that the peole can work in that big city, and go home in our metal wonderland.

and kontinual is right:
USA:  - Density      31/km² (172nd)
Romania: - Density      91/km² (104th)
Bulgaria:  - Density      70/km² (124th)
Ukraine:   -Density       80km²

But look at other aspects. As a romanian, and damn proud, 30% of our surface is mountains, and 32% ( 31. something % ) forests, while Ukraine and Bulgaria ( and Hungary ) have far less.
Over 1/3 of Europe's boars, 1/2 of Europe's bears are in Romania ;)

If i'm not wrong, there's a little Afrikaaner only village in post apartheid SA, called ORANIA ( www.orania.co.za ). So it's not impossible.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on February 13, 2007, 04:54:07 AM
Europe needs a mass culling IMO. We could make do a lot better with a tenth of our total population and stabilise it around that level. About 5% of the population in Britain needs to survive I would say.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Nightfall on February 13, 2007, 10:42:11 AM
Quote
Europe needs a mass culling IMO. We could make do a lot better with a tenth of our total population and stabilise it around that level. About 5% of the population in Britain needs to survive I would say.


Then the immigrants would take control :o
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Silas_Dement on February 13, 2007, 07:57:44 PM
Trust anus to come up with it's own slightly more worthwhile Metalocalypse episode.

I wouldn't pick ten hessians, anyway, because there would be no possibility of procreation.

I can at least assure you that we'd be homogenous.






Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on February 13, 2007, 08:08:59 PM
im more then sure it would not be a male only society, after all there is no less a reason for any women to understand or undertake any  concepts present in metal as men. And i also thought people thought it would be a good idea to be situated near a larger economy (hence being situated near many people)

in fact it sounds exactly like any other small community, close to other members of the society, dependent on other members, except were trying to find people of a similar mindset
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Silas_Dement on February 13, 2007, 09:43:08 PM
Women can understand the concepts in metal just fine but very few do.  If you know a female metalhead you'd be willing to live on an island with, you're a luckier man than I.  

The original post was talking about ten metalheads on an island.  I was not a part of the discussion that ensued immediately afterwards where 10 people became a small community and an island became a suburb.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Azazel on February 14, 2007, 07:03:23 AM
Is such a topic ever going to be put into practice? If not is there any real point in talking about it?
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: runtoftheshitter on February 14, 2007, 04:59:50 PM
I think Glinda had a good point.  There are plenty of towns, especially where i live in the south, with even less than a hundred people.  All you'd have to do is be willing to put forth the effort to start from scratch....and why the hell not?  It definitely seems worth it to me.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Nightfall on February 14, 2007, 10:08:16 PM
Quote
People could always just pick one of those little shit towns that only have like 100 people who live there, take the town over by sheer fact of literally hundreds of metalheads moving there, and begin elections, buying/establishing businesses, homes, etc, begin elections, and that would be that. Living within the system, yet establishing a somewhat different society within the system. Have the equivalent of town meetings, have those willing to moderate conduct these meetings in order to sort everything out. It's just like anything else, everybody would kind of naturally take their places within the town, instant metal society.


Would this new society be able to pass laws restricting certain people from entering the town? I'm thinking that once the town is transformed into something good that less desirable people will try to join in..
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on February 14, 2007, 10:48:16 PM
simple, town meetings, we decide whether the person is permitted to live here by the person himself (or herself) not by some law or decree
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: kontinual on February 15, 2007, 01:58:00 AM
Quote
simple, town meetings, we decide whether the person is permitted to live here by the person himself (or herself) not by some law or decree


That might seem possible on a local scale but would probably be thoroughly illegal under the laws of whatever broader government this town/city was operating.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: aimanirrajim on February 15, 2007, 04:02:37 AM
a true metal society is where everybody stays clear of the black metal person. just play along with his/her bizzare personality cuz he/she's not interested in bothering anyone in the long run anyway. just give him/her a nice cabin in the woods and everything will be fine.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: beyond_godlike on February 21, 2007, 03:16:02 PM
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/bransmill.htm
Fairly decent sized island and a fairly resonable price. all of you from this site can save up and buy that island and build a community there.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: EQUALCLAST on February 25, 2007, 07:55:28 AM
I think that in an idea metal society, everybody would be equal and important individuals.  What could be more metal than that?  White people only, though.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on February 25, 2007, 06:05:49 PM
Quote
I think that in an idea metal society, everybody would be equal and important individuals.


I have no problem with people being treated equally, as long as their roles aren't equal. Some people are manic geniuses who should be leading the entire tribe. Others should be mowing lawns. Any metal society would be realist enough to see that.

I don't think a metal society would be racist, although it would break down by different ethnic groups.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: The_Absu on March 01, 2007, 09:46:56 AM
Quote
I think Glinda had a good point.  There are plenty of towns, especially where i live in the south, with even less than a hundred people.  All you'd have to do is be willing to put forth the effort to start from scratch....and why the hell not?  It definitely seems worth it to me.


Living in the American Southeast myself, I can attest to the lowly populated towns. Mississippi has about 3 million people spread out over 47,000 sq.miles.  Many people still own private land out here, although those that own enough to set up a reasonable-sized town might be few and far between.


http://www.fedstats.gov/qf/states/28000.html


Also, unlike the South- and Mid-West, the portions of the Southeast that are part of the Mississippi River Basin are well-watered, with good soil, and plentiful game. It is thought that the River Basin is one of the few places in the world where a responsible hunter/gatherer and agricultural society could exist indefinitely.

Back to topic:

Any metal society that wishes to immediately distance itself from consumer culture could impose a
slightly regulated form of bartering within its jurisdiction. Bartering 5 ewes/2 rams for 3 bicycles, for example, isn't exactly a fair trade because the sheep will reproduce and become a renewable source for trade, whereas the bicycles are nonrenewable and will eventually break down. So, some rule governing the types of exchanges that can be made would be in order.

The easiest course of action would be to encourage trades that recognized quality and equivalence in the goods.  I use 'renewable' as a trait for the judging of equivalence in my example because it's easy to understand. In order to determine quality, the traders could submit their goods to inspect by a recognized master. This would not only encourage fairness and limitation in commerce but also reinforce the affinity to helpful professions within the community.

The idea is not planned out well enough to survive all situations, but it's something to think about.

No one will barter for sex. AIDS may be a renewable resource, but if you have just a little, you have too much.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: kontinual on March 01, 2007, 09:57:33 AM
Quote
Also, unlike the South- and Mid-West, the portions of the Southeast that are part of the Mississippi River Basin are well-watered, with good soil, and plentiful game.


Not terribly on topic, but: are you implying the Midwest lacks sufficient water, fertile soil, and game?  If anything, it is one of the regions of the country where all these things are still found plentifully.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: The_Absu on March 01, 2007, 10:07:32 AM
Quote

Not terribly on topic, but: are you implying the Midwest lacks sufficient water, fertile soil, and game?  If anything, it is one of the regions of the country where all these things are still found plentifully.


Ah, sorry for the generalization. I suppose that I should say that the Mississippi River Basin is a part of the continent where acquiring land with those qualities would be less expensive/frustrating.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on March 05, 2007, 05:09:52 PM
I see a metal society happening this way.

Our parents are dependent on the old system, for fear of not having the cash to retire or keep up their medical bills, and so they keep pushing it along, but it decays. No culture remains: newcomers arrive, money manipulates brains, mass media obliterates memories of the past.

The citizens cannot unite. There are many theories. Some believe the government did 9/11, others think the Masons control the world, still others think it's Jesus' plan for the rapture. Who is right? It doesn't matter. No one can unite on a concept for what the future should be. Trust disintegrates. Hatred is masked under politeness. Love becomes sex, friendship becomes business, religion becomes being right and others wrong, war becomes profit. Society falls apart invisibly from within.

In one corner of Houston, TX, a subdivision is gutted by gang warfare and poverty. A few metalheads move into a house, and instead of taking the shit, they fight back, often by unconventional methods like wrecking gangster's cars or spray-painting drug addicts pink. They play loud Satanic music at top volume and shoot back. They invite their friends. Soon they occupy six houses. The cops are busy elsewhere. The metalheads wage war on those who do not share their vision. Maybe it's unjust, maybe it's wrong... but it is effective, and the neighborhood passes into Hessian (http://www.hessian.org/) hands.

They are now the law because they wield the power. The few who are useless slackers are kicked out because they do not share this vision by their actions. The neighborhood is united by the culture found in the ideas that propel this music, in the religious symbolism of its sound, in its fearless attitude toward life.

Others stay away. The community gains life because all must eat, and so labor divides naturally by what people can do. A new kind of law rules this land. There are no constraints on murder, only the idea that those who do not act to support the vision or act against it are not wanted. They find themselves experiencing less of the resources shared, and thrown out eventually if they're not smart enough to leave. It's not enough to listen to metal. The person has to live it, and put their energy into supporting it.

Concerts occur impromptu at random times, when people come together, and gradually like a civilization forming, these groups form bands who play several times a week. These concerts are the social backbone of this culture, like churches once were for great-grandparents, but there are no churches here. There is money, but not business. Hessian culture defines what is done and they find out how to pay for it later, or manipulate it by force.

This society leads itself by idea, and lets the mechanics come later.

As civilization decays, two groups form in many variants: those who have some uniting concept, and those who are just lumping along and trying to get what they can. No one can trust the latter group. The former group, in forms Christian and Hessian and Nazi and Green and Jewish and Mason and Hindu and Jungian and Vegetarian and Vegan, create their own communities -- sub-civilizations -- and endure by finding trust in each other and building simple economies that feed productive citizens and exclude others.

It isn't as far away as you think. A wave of hurricanes, a disease or two, doubling in the price of oil, some foreign wars and strange distant lands with nuclear weapons, more crime and corruption, more theft and drug warfare, and society will collapse on itself in slow stages like a world trade center shuddering into oblivion from its own weight.

It's not a bad thing to plan for.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on March 11, 2007, 03:48:32 PM
I got a boner reading that post.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on April 28, 2007, 07:42:15 AM
Quote
I got a boner reading that post.


World civilization death... remember that band GGFH, whose name stood for (reputedly) Global Genocide Forget Heaven?

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on April 28, 2007, 12:15:16 PM
But in the end aren't we just becoming another organized street gang? It may unite a group of Hessians but is it really going to do anything other then to frightening and bully all those of other modes of thought?  
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on April 28, 2007, 03:38:49 PM
Quote
But in the end aren't we just becoming another organized street gang? It may unite a group of Hessians but is it really going to do anything other then to frightening and bully all those of other modes of thought?  


No because we don't use the power and civilisation for the sake of selfish needs; it's to create something better for everyone else and transcend our own lives.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on April 28, 2007, 05:40:25 PM
however we would still be utilizing all of the aspects that make our society harmful to other species and to the environment, it would just be another western society with people who read Nietzsche but are stuck reaping money and hurting the planet. Thats why i liked the idea of buying a property out in the country or on an island where we can build an eco-friendly society rather then a street gang who listens to loud music all through the night.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Immolation on April 28, 2007, 05:54:10 PM
Quote
however we would still be utilizing all of the aspects that make our society harmful to other species and to the environment, it would just be another western society with people who read Nietzsche but are stuck reaping money and hurting the planet. Thats why i liked the idea of buying a property out in the country or on an island where we can build an eco-friendly society rather then a street gang who listens to loud music all through the night.


An isolated island isn't going to work at this point of time, because any island (which due to its smaller size has a presumably lower lying land mass) would be one of the first places to be inundated when sea levels rise within the next 20-30 years.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Raise_the_Dead on April 28, 2007, 06:45:43 PM
Quote
however we would still be utilizing all of the aspects that make our society harmful to other species and to the environment, it would just be another western society with people who read Nietzsche but are stuck reaping money and hurting the planet. Thats why i liked the idea of buying a property out in the country or on an island where we can build an eco-friendly society rather then a street gang who listens to loud music all through the night.


I think a community of intelligent metal-heads would maybe at first look like a street gang, but be able to become a fully functioning and sustainable community after some time, and then more people might be interested in moving to such a place.  They would learn to grow their own food and make their own products - that's why Hessians should learn to be comfortable working in the field, so to speak.

Either way I don't think born for banning's post was completely serious anyway, just an idea about how a Hessian society might come into being.  And if he is, it definitely sounds like a fun alternative to our modern world.

Lastly, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't many civilizations have their roots in bloodshed and "fighting back"?
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on April 28, 2007, 07:14:56 PM
Quote
But in the end aren't we just becoming another organized street gang? It may unite a group of Hessians but is it really going to do anything other then to frightening and bully all those of other modes of thought?  


If it's a different, better design for society, it's an archetype of the future.

No reason why it can't be more ecologically positive, like small lower-tech sub-civilizations are worldwide.

But forming a green commune? You go do it, and I'll watch it fail. There's not enough there to bind people. You need a culture, and metal is one of those cultures, if we paid attention to the Morbid Angels and Immortals and not the Satyricons and Drudkhs.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on April 28, 2007, 07:44:26 PM
When i say ecologically friendly i mean things like cars would be replaced with more suitable forms of transport (considering how small the territory is this makes sense). But this does not mean you cant have technology, after all many forms of gathering electricity do no harm whatsoever so most gadgets should be usable.

And how does being in a eco-friendly society lack culture?

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Horrific Prophecies on April 29, 2007, 01:54:31 AM
Quote

No reason why it can't be more ecologically positive, like small lower-tech sub-civilizations are worldwide.


Does anyone know any? Since I was a wee lad i've daydreamed of moving to some sort of medievalist community (although i of course would still like electricity and various aspects of modern life). If this metal society thing never takes off (to be honest, youd have to collect more people, perhaps non-metal pagans or something? i dont know), then I for one am still leaving this shithouse society.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Immolation on April 29, 2007, 08:39:01 AM
Quote
Does anyone know any? Since I was a wee lad i've daydreamed of moving to some sort of medievalist community (although i of course would still like electricity and various aspects of modern life). If this metal society thing never takes off (to be honest, youd have to collect more people, perhaps non-metal pagans or something? i dont know), then I for one am still leaving this shithouse society.


There's a Hippie community (filled with dropouts from high profile careers across the country) in a small town called Madrid, New Mexico. Seems to have worked for them.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on May 01, 2007, 02:42:46 AM
If this thread is any indication, a metal community would fail, which is what most of you wanted to hear in the first place.

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Horrific Prophecies on May 01, 2007, 04:38:05 AM
Quote
If this thread is any indication, a metal community would fail, which is what most of you wanted to hear in the first place.


Nice pep talk, thinking positive as usual. Instead of predicting its failure, why dont you say something helpful? The possibilities of how this society would work and how it would come to be have barely been scratched. Also, why the fuck do you assume 'most of us' wanted to hear that it would fail? Do you take people on this forum to be as uninspired and lazy as normal people? r-e-s-p-e-c-t.
Perhaps someone could start a poll/petition/whatever to see how many people are interested, advertise it and whatnot (after possibilities have been discussed)?
Or was Mr. Positive there right?
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on May 01, 2007, 07:38:42 AM
Quote
Do you take people on this forum to be as uninspired and lazy as normal people?
...
Or was Mr. Positive there right?


Yeah! Prove me wrong!

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: scourge on May 01, 2007, 08:43:51 AM
Quote
When i say ecologically friendly i mean things like cars would be replaced with more suitable forms of transport (considering how small the territory is this makes sense).


Cloning the modern world by having "new types of cars" or new improved "other product" is not really an alternative. Our towns need to be efficiently designed so that personal transport devices are not needed by most people. Walking for a few minutes rather than driving an hour in clogged traffic might accomplish the same purpose less destructively. Towns are stupidly designed so that everyone must take on the extra expense of a petroleum burning car in order to function.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on May 01, 2007, 09:20:00 AM
Quote

Cloning the modern world by having "new types of cars" or new improved "other product" is not really an alternative. Our towns need to be efficiently designed so that personal transport devices are not needed by most people. Walking for a few minutes rather than driving an hour in clogged traffic might accomplish the same purpose less destructively. Towns are stupidly designed so that everyone must take on the extra expense of a petroleum burning car in order to function.


It's also not just the towns that are at fault - more people could be working where they live.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: -H418ov21.C on May 01, 2007, 10:11:29 AM
Quote

It's also not just the towns that are at fault - more people could be working where they live.


Indeed. The very concept of "job" is a crucial factor in the downfall of society. It is now extremely common that people leave their town and install themselves in a "foreign" environment just because of a job, and thus pollute ethnocultural entities, or that they travel 4 hours a day just to go to that special job they're after whereas they could do a more meaningful and useful job in their immediate surroundings. The modern concept of "job" destroys micro-ecosystems and societies.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: kontinual on May 01, 2007, 11:05:41 AM
Quote

It's also not just the towns that are at fault - more people could be working where they live.


You're certainly correct, but if you've ever been to the States (perhaps you have) you would know exactly what was meant.  There are a limited number of larger cities where transport without a car (and without basing your life around your transportation choice) is possible; in others where it may have been, the ubiquitous presence of it [edit: automobile traffic] has made the practice difficult.  A lot of places are slowly coming around but it is much a case of too little, too late.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Iconoclast on May 02, 2007, 04:53:53 PM
In the midwest, cities typically expand while remaining relatively less dense than major cities, thus public transportation is out of the question for a lot of people.  I certainly couldn't walk to my university in a reasonable time; it would take four to five hours at the minimum ( that would be 10 hours both ways!  and instead of the 30-45 minutes with a car both ways) and that's simply not time I have to spend walking in a grease covered, piece of shit city.

(if this is off topic, delete this post because I'm drunk and too lazy to read the past page ;) )
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on May 05, 2007, 07:55:45 AM
So human... a beautiful mountain before you, and first you worry about the pile of shit blocking the first step. Step over it, or your trained helplessness makes you useless.

Cities can be rearranged. People can move between buildings. Big cities can split up into local communities, like they're already doing as a buffer against crime (98% of which is committed by minorities, drug addicts, and mentally retarded homeless). All these things are easily surmountable.

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: kontinual on May 05, 2007, 03:31:15 PM
I don't think anybody is making these last set of observations with a defeatist tone toward the initial topic, it is just an interesting tangential conversation.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: beyond_godlike on May 06, 2007, 03:04:00 PM
I say a bunch of metalheads just go into a gay community and buy some houses. We all play really loud death metal 24/7 and eventually the gays will leave and we'll have our own community and it won't be in the middle of nowhere.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on May 07, 2007, 05:50:34 AM
Just don't play any Manowar or Judas Priest.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on May 07, 2007, 10:12:41 PM
Quote
I say a bunch of metalheads just go into a gay community and buy some houses. We all play really loud death metal 24/7 and eventually the gays will leave and we'll have our own community and it won't be in the middle of nowhere.


However to play music this loud this consistently will break a lot of council rules, unless you are very rich its not a feasible option, especially if the person likely) and there is a chance they may enjoy your music.  
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Deacon on May 15, 2007, 05:49:06 PM
Quote

You're certainly correct, but if you've ever been to the States (perhaps you have) you would know exactly what was meant.  There are a limited number of larger cities where transport without a car (and without basing your life around your transportation choice) is possible; in others where it may have been, the ubiquitous presence of it [edit: automobile traffic] has made the practice difficult.  A lot of places are slowly coming around but it is much a case of too little, too late.




 Large cities are almost universally shitty places to live because we have no connection to 99.99% of the people around us. The ideal setting for any, not just a metal community, would be a small enough village that everyone knows everyone else. In such a situation, sociopathic / decadent behavior is extremely rare. A metal society would be Pagan in nature, and it seems to make alot more sense to follow a tribal pattern.



I find myself dismayed by the (seemingly) insurmountable nature of this task (Hey, let's go make our own civilization!), but it's something worth working for. I would much rather try and fail miserably than remain in our modern shithole and never so much as aspire to transcend. Frankly, the types who aren't even willing to attempt rewarding challenges or put in work when work is demanded are the kinds that would have no place in such a society, and really shouldn't be on these boards.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on May 15, 2007, 08:20:05 PM
But if i were to try i would prefer to do it with a plan that seems like it could work (but may not), rather then one i know will not. After all rash thinking and quick decisions are why revolutions tend to put people farther behind then they already were.  
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Deacon on May 16, 2007, 12:00:24 PM
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But if i were to try i would prefer to do it with a plan that seems like it could work (but may not), rather then one i know will not. After all rash thinking and quick decisions are why revolutions tend to put people farther behind then they already were.  



Of course, when I say we ought to try I did not mean "let's go out in the woods and hope we don't starve to death". Coming up with a serrious plan is the first step, but I believe many people aren't really willing to do that. I'm also talking not so much about people on these boards as "metalheads" in general, most of whom have plenty of complaints against modern society but are retard hipsters. Those unwilling to study History or Anthroplogy because "books are for fags" are the kind that would fail miserably at attempting their own society. I think a gathering of intellectuals, which ANUS provides has a chance at creating something.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on May 16, 2007, 08:38:10 PM
Most "metalheads" hate modern society and Christianity for no reason. Ask them a reason why and they will not supply an answer that escapes Christian morality and our modern society's ideology.

People like this cannot form a plan to live outside our society because they love all of it but the name.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on May 16, 2007, 11:04:22 PM
I'd much rather ANUS influence the entire world than a village of metalheads out in some lonely place of the USA.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: hakea on May 17, 2007, 12:24:42 AM
In regards to this post, to get anywhere.. and to make the idea somewhat less trivial. We should come up with an action-group or some sort of organisational structure to bring this idea to reality.

First we need to be familiar with core values and policies of such a group to establish further structure and communal ruling. We need to be familiar with one-anothers skills, ideas, background, etc etc.

The first question i pose, do we have the numbers to create such a society? And if so, where is these numbers most condensed, i mean the locality of these numbers and if this location is most suitable to start our colonisation?
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on May 19, 2007, 06:55:43 AM
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I'd much rather ANUS influence the entire world than a village of metalheads out in some lonely place of the USA.


Maybe it's part of the same idea. One small area becomes an example.

I am afraid of the hipster element. Bunches of shitheads might show up wanting to be cool, but being unwilling to give. No, I think this kind of thing has to arise organically... and apart from the laws of the herd. I also agree with the previous poster who said it would have to clearly define its ideology or it would be overrun with "books are for fags" idiots and hipsters.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Iconoclast on May 19, 2007, 09:37:18 AM
Dear Satan, if a metal society ever comes about, the first law is going to be: Thou Shalt Not Blog.

Please make that happen.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on May 21, 2007, 06:49:54 PM
I hope a metal society wouldn't have laws. When you need to write things down in rule form, you're designing your society for idiots. It's more flexible and wiser to have smart leaders instead.

Iconoclast, how are your posts here different than blog content?

What I like about a metal society is that it would unite the intelligent capable few who have the vision to see such a thing could work. That would filter out all the me-toos and followers who would want some easy way out of society where they could leech off others and do nothing important.

It's like the metal audience itself. Most of them watch a lot of TV and movies and collect bad music on plastic CDs, and then go back to their stupid jobs and never amount to anything. It's the rare few that could move into the forest, set up a clean civilization, and live without having to write down laws or holy books.

It looks to me like a lot of the people posting in this thread fear that possibility, and want to shoot it down however they can.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on May 21, 2007, 10:11:10 PM
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I hope a metal society wouldn't have laws. When you need to write things down in rule form, you're designing your society for idiots. It's more flexible and wiser to have smart leaders instead.


This worked fine when society's were tribal and consisted of no more then a few hundred people at the most because each offense could be viewed by the act itself and the consequences rather then having lawyers to find technicality's to prove an other wise guilty man innocent. In a larger society this would prove to be to chaotic. You cant make people follow common sense when there are no rules or no enforcement of any kind. Its a punk/anarchist fantasy.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: -H418ov21.C on May 22, 2007, 12:08:32 AM
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This worked fine when society's were tribal and consisted of no more then a few hundred people at the most because each offense could be viewed by the act itself and the consequences rather then having lawyers to find technicality's to prove an other wise guilty man innocent. In a larger society this would prove to be to chaotic. You cant make people follow common sense when there are no rules or no enforcement of any kind. Its a punk/anarchist fantasy.


But wouldn't such a society be precisely composed for the most part of groups of a few hundreds people rather than large cities/towns ? A rural setting is both healthier and more logical for any human settlement. Large towns can't sustain themselves, so they are a failure technically speaking, and humans aren't made for such numerous interactions with other people, despite what anyone can claim.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on May 22, 2007, 01:20:49 AM
Even if there aren't laws there were still be unwritten rules of conduct that are to be followed so the culture does not devolve into a permanent state of hedonism, pretty much laws that aren't unbreakable and can change for independent cases. But yes i agree if an ideal culture was to be reached it should be one with minimum people.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: scourge on May 22, 2007, 06:20:21 PM
One possibility is to use the existing system's own resources to help reshape society. The drawback is that too many metal people are withdrawn from larger society, unable to interface with and direct its energy.

This endeavor needs skilled, motivated people with a diverse array of talents or qualifications. Call it a town of the future prototype experiment, get some grants for funding and a large piece of land for building and farming. Credible, respectable people who happen to appreciate metal are the key.

Civilization gets a return on its grant investments and material donations in the form of reports and other media which demonstrates that several better alternatives to the existing society's designs are available.

The trouble with some of the thinking in this thread is with outer form, which is the 'metal society' wording in the title. The spirit of the thread is 'better alternative' to existing society and many superior possibilities are found in the spirit of metal culture.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on May 28, 2007, 12:30:43 PM
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This worked fine when society's were tribal and consisted of no more then a few hundred people at the most because each offense could be viewed by the act itself and the consequences rather then having lawyers to find technicality's to prove an other wise guilty man innocent. In a larger society this would prove to be to chaotic.


Not necessarily. If this larger society made moving to other communities difficult, and ruled itself as a hierarchy of small communities, it would work.

For example, Headbangistan has a Lord who rules over the Kings. He's the one leader and the guy who decides when to go to war, and when to change some assumption the others act on. His kings each rule areas about the size of Rhode Island, and are united under district Kings (Earls, Dukes?) who compile their complaints and praise and pass it on to him. Each King has a numbered of landed lords under him, ruling an area the size of a large town, and those bring their complaints to the King. How hard is that?
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Deacon on May 29, 2007, 05:15:34 PM
 A large society has many many many problems that I think are avoidable via smaller structure, or at least through localization. I think a certain degree of unity between tribes would be necessary in extreme times, but in general, they would be kept seperate.

Being American, I can't help but think of U.S. History here. Our orriginal constituation, The Articles of Confederation, set up a system similar to this (Although on a larger scale than desirable). Power was focused on the state level, allowing each region to develop independently and uniquely; the Federal government was largely inobtrusive and essentially was to unite the various states in times of war when cooperation would be unquestionably necessary.

If I recall correctly, the primary reason for ditching the Articles was because they hindered economics.

I would expect that a "metal society" would not sell it's soul in order to profit more economically. For one thing, standardization of currency does not need to mean strong central government, for another, I think we all agree that a strong trade economy is NOT a goal of our hypothetical society.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: -H418ov21.C on May 30, 2007, 01:27:46 AM
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I think a certain degree of unity between tribes would be necessary in extreme times, but in general, they would be kept seperate.


This is very similar to the pre-Roman Gaul, and worked well (no, the victory of Caesar does not invalidate that form of society).


Quote
I would expect that a "metal society" would not sell it's soul in order to profit more economically. For one thing, standardization of currency does not need to mean strong central government, for another, I think we all agree that a strong trade economy is NOT a goal of our hypothetical society.


I have seen recently that somewhere in an Eastern state of the USA, people created their own currency to strengthen the local jobs and avoid big corporations to set in. It's apparently legal to do that in the US, and is a great idea.

In a Metal society you'd pay something with "skulls"  :)

"How much for that beer ?"

"One skull and two cents."
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: scourge on May 30, 2007, 11:28:00 AM
One cent = one sensi bud. 100 buds = 1 skull.

Grow, and hew with sword, your wealth!
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on May 31, 2007, 12:28:14 AM
But a small metal community would probably be reliant on a larger economy, so wouldn't the idea of a purely localized currency hinder larger relations? I guess this idea might work if it was a farming community.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: -H418ov21.C on May 31, 2007, 04:27:58 AM
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But a small metal community would probably be reliant on a larger economy, so wouldn't the idea of a purely localized currency hinder larger relations? I guess this idea might work if it was a farming community.


What I saw wasn't farms, more like small towns with small shops, workshops and the like. Inhabitants didn't want big brands or larger companies to set in.

I've found it again : it's in Massachusetts. In Berkshire.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Mr. Master D. Evil on May 31, 2007, 05:49:40 AM
A good metal society or a bad one?
Cause I don't think a good one would have worked very well... too many wannabes and emos would have ruined it! I see stuff about some island... maybe the people who would live there had to pass a test or something, but i guess it would have been corrupt, and ended maybe even worse >_<
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on June 01, 2007, 07:47:44 PM
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What I saw wasn't farms, more like small towns with small shops, workshops and the like. Inhabitants didn't want big brands or larger companies to set in.

I've found it again : it's in Massachusetts. In Berkshire.


If it wasnt a farming community it would need some way to get the resources it needs, if you have your own localised goverments wont it make any imports like food a struggle to acuire?
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: -H418ov21.C on June 02, 2007, 01:54:58 AM
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If it wasnt a farming community it would need some way to get the resources it needs, if you have your own localised goverments wont it make any imports like food a struggle to acuire?


Yes, of course. But Berkshire inhabitants aren't in open conflict with the government, so it is accepted. The degree of food autonomy is proportional to the degree of dissidence of the community. If you don't declare war to the US government as soon as you buy your land ; you might have the time to build your food self-sufficiency to the degree where you won't have to worry about what your public stance is anymore.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Stranger on June 02, 2007, 07:15:02 AM
I'm not sure if a community should be based on music. I don't think this is what everyone here is saying, but I just wanted to make that clear  :)

Anyway, a lot of what is being said here are details within the whole. I think the first task is to see how many of you are serious about this?

Maybe various meeting areas should be designated throughout the country with heads of local branches to report to the main branch. Something along these lines sounds doable.

Figuring out who is serious and who is trying to look cool over the internet is the first task at hand.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on June 02, 2007, 03:09:12 PM
I think for an actual serious gesture towards a complete nihilistic subculture which be to almost become like the free-masons. Branches where ever there is enough willing participants, and local meetings and agendas and probably a lot of raising awareness to topics is what the group would advocate. But this would all happen within normal society. These people all have jobs and lives outside of the group. So i don’t think if a serious attempt was made, this is the closest it would come.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: scourge on June 02, 2007, 05:18:01 PM
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Maybe various meeting areas should be designated throughout the country with heads of local branches to report to the main branch. Something along these lines sounds doable.


Why not use any one of the countless existing organizations already out there? Sure, you would have to pay for a newsletter membership, a P.O. box and show up for a protest rally or two. But, the infrastructure is already in place and a couple dozen co-conspirators could influence the organization toward a more useful direction.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on June 03, 2007, 12:19:49 PM
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I'm not sure if a community should be based on music.


No, it would have to based on the culture behind the music. By that I don't mean fan culture, because that's an oxymoron. I mean the ideas shared behind notable creators that drive them forward.

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: glinda on June 03, 2007, 08:00:18 PM
I'm living in South Dakota now, and near the town I live in I'm not kidding is a town right outside of an ethanol plant, there are like 200-400 houses there for only like $10,000 per house. That's like nothing. We could each buy our lil piece of land, tear down all but a few of the houses, set up the land for farming, and figure out how we want to run the place ,obviously "work" as defined by the current system would change, as all work would be done within the community. We could then sell our goods and services outside of the community, by internet, or by selecting a few people to go out and sell our stuff. Most things are legal to do when running your own town, as long as you can outvote the other guy, and you're not killing anyone, making a mess, or making a nuisance of yourself. There is a community here of  German people called Hutterites and they work and live mostly within their own community, sell surplus food, and the men build houses outside the community to bring in extra money, so obviously a society like that is doable,it's just a matter of cutting the bullshit, getting everybody there, and then talking about the particulars. I think the main problem is that nobody really wants to make changes that big in their own lives, and work together for the good of such a community. Seriously, it could work if all you guys would quit BSing and get the balls to actually do it, instead of this "in theory" or "why should I try" or "it has to be exaclty how I would envision it or I don't wanna do it". We all gotta settle down somewhere, and ideally, I think it'd be better in a community of like minded people rather than some stinkin city or in a suburb with neighbors I don't know, or can't stand.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Aissja on June 04, 2007, 10:25:00 PM
The dissapointing fact is that you face metal as a stereotype, as a certain ideology.Well for me it isn't.Of course there are some kind of attitudes that you expect from a metaller.But a metal "society" now should include only few and there won't be any Cradle of filth cds to throw to the stupid ones.The only thing you can't fight is stupidity.It just grows stronger.To get things to happen you need some kind of everyday personal war.If everything was shity and wimpish then there would be a chance for a change.
Another thing is that the most easy thing to do in order to seem less trendy is to fight against bands like Cradle of filth Satyricon whatsoever but it's not that simple.You should explain what are the things that make you feel like that(desiring a metal society).Somebody wrote:there shouldn't be any churches.Yes that's true so why don't you burn one?The most difficult thing is not to understand and get away from the stupidity but also recreate far away from it.For example when I see a church in a forest I consider this as a totally shameful fact for the nature,You too I Imagine.But why the most of you don't destroy them and instead you think of how it would be a society without them?
The will and the power are inadequete.

As i said earlier on the number of the individuals in a metal "society" should be restricted because wimps and idiots exist in large quantities in the metal scene.

Anyway,the whole thing is too conjectural.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on June 05, 2007, 01:50:32 AM
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I think the main problem is that nobody really wants to make changes that big in their own lives, and work together for the good of such a community. Seriously, it could work if all you guys would quit BSing and get the balls to actually do it, instead of this "in theory" or "why should I try" or "it has to be exaclty how I would envision it or I don't wanna do it".


You can never guarantee that things will go the way you see it but that does not mean go do everything without thinking because it prove your "dedicated."

With Russia that have had multiple bloody revolutions that did nothing for the reasons they were fought, huge numbers died for no reason, and all because the revolutionists did not think through anything well enough.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: we hope you die on June 05, 2007, 08:59:10 AM
OK, fascinating as it is to discuss the pros and cons of such a society, a metal forum is not the best place to actually make it happen, fact. It needs ot people to start working on a local level, find people near them of a like mind, start gathering people together, organising meeting and thrash out ideas. Then you need to get people organised on a wider scale, obviously through the internet, things like msypace would be a good place to start. If we run it with a kind of central goverment with local bodies things might start moving. And through that we can start to work out the practicality of it, things like location, resources, what kind of system etc etc.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: oscar the cat on June 05, 2007, 02:38:53 PM
Interesting article on this topic:

Quote
Somewhere in the northern New Mexico desert, a grizzled gardener
called Robbie is praising the prickliness of his home. "The cops don't
like to come out here," he says proudly, "and this place is built on
being left alone by the authorities. People say to the government,
'Fuck you. Chinga tu madre. We don't want your government, and you can
get out of here.'"
 
http://www.reason.com/news/show/120512.html
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Immolation on June 05, 2007, 07:15:50 PM
Quote
Interesting article on this topic:



This is the place I was referring to in a previous post on this topic. I was under the impression the place is called "Madrid," although they don't seem to have mentioned that.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: beyond_godlike on June 06, 2007, 06:36:23 PM
Starting a metal society would not be hard. The main problem i see is finding suitable members. It's not like you can just put an ad up for people to come. Then people that are not welcome would come too. Plus, let's face it, metalheads aren't the most organized people. I stick to my original idea of just getting a bunch of people and invading a town. Not a real invasion, but just a bunch of people moving there. All the depressing black will scare the people away. If anything, buy a buch of firearms and make the residents aware that you have them. They see a bunch of people with long hair, black clothes, and guns, they'll leave. We have to make police as scared of hessians as they are african-americans. Then there will essentially be self-rule such as in inner-city neighborhoods. Police do not go in there because they are scared. Same would apply here. A few actions would have to be taken though. Nothing scares Americans like domestic terrorist attacks. The problem is that we'll probably just get confused with neo-nazis. So we would need spokespeople as well. We have to make our kind known. Only way I see it is possible for this to work.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on June 06, 2007, 10:52:46 PM
So a group that although their intentions may be different, are identical in actions to any gang,  putting forth a spokesperson to make them understood. This does not really make sense to me.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: we hope you die on June 07, 2007, 03:40:23 AM
What you're proposing would just result in a "metal town", a metal area of a large city, and not a completely serpate metal society.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Horrific Prophecies on June 09, 2007, 04:09:52 AM
Quote
So a group that although there intentions may be different are identical in actions to any gang putting forth a spokesperson to make them understood, does not really make sense to me.


Its kind of a bad look for the site when the (non-admin) user with the highest posts can't/doesn't form coherent sentences, or use correct grammar and spelling. Come on man..."Quality, not quantity."
Perhaps you should re-visit the 'Grammar for Metalheads' thread to brush up on your their, there, and they're usage. Fuck, its the same laziness responsible for the language used by IMing teenagers.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: wEEman33 on June 09, 2007, 09:04:17 AM
He's not American, and English isn't his primary language; give the man a break.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: tovarish on June 09, 2007, 03:43:14 PM
Quote
Starting a metal society would not be hard. The main problem i see is finding suitable members. It's not like you can just put an ad up for people to come. Then people that are not welcome would come too. Plus, let's face it, metalheads aren't the most organized people. I stick to my original idea of just getting a bunch of people and invading a town. Not a real invasion, but just a bunch of people moving there. All the depressing black will scare the people away. If anything, buy a buch of firearms and make the residents aware that you have them. They see a bunch of people with long hair, black clothes, and guns, they'll leave. We have to make police as scared of hessians as they are african-americans. Then there will essentially be self-rule such as in inner-city neighborhoods. Police do not go in there because they are scared. Same would apply here. A few actions would have to be taken though. Nothing scares Americans like domestic terrorist attacks. The problem is that we'll probably just get confused with neo-nazis. So we would need spokespeople as well. We have to make our kind known. Only way I see it is possible for this to work.


I think in general you have some good thoughts, but a little bit disorganized.  First draft?  I think the neo-nazi or terrorist label would be difficult to break away from without drawing speculation that it's some kind of "Satanic Devil Worshipping Baby Eating Animal Raping Cult."

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on June 09, 2007, 09:32:02 PM
Quote
Its kind of a bad look for the site when the (non-admin) user with the highest posts can't/doesn't form coherent sentences, or use correct grammar and spelling. Come on man..."Quality, not quantity."
Perhaps you should re-visit the 'Grammar for Metalheads' thread to brush up on your their, there, and they're usage. Fuck, its the same laziness responsible for the language used by IMing teenagers.


Sadly English is the only language i can speak, but just to please you i went along i fixed up my previous sentence to the best of my ability.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: born for banning on June 17, 2007, 07:31:57 PM
Quote
Starting a metal society would not be hard. The main problem i see is finding suitable members.


Especially since most metalheads are choked with apathy and self-satiation, and are impotent outside of their day jobs and CD-collecting habits.

I am increasingly not drawn toward a metal society. I think we'd need a metal-inspired society, like taking the best ideas of Burzum, Immortal, Summoning and Slayer and making a manifesto and getting those who agree on it to buy enough of Utah or Wyoming to set up a new state.

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: scourge on December 01, 2007, 08:26:58 AM
Options

theme park
A metal/medieval/gothic/renaissance community where employees live on site. Similarly, Disney World, somewhat self-sufficient, also has some housing for its employees.

Cost: tendency to depend on profit not culture and accountability to the surrounding government's laws and taxes. Startup outsider capital investors would want their money back and then some, quickly.

Benefit: cleaner, quicker interface into existing society by being another corporation.

exclusive island
Establish metal townships on an island independent of other nation states.

Cost: economic isolation from limited natural resources and tiny volume of trade exports due to scale. Lack of available island within group's budget. Iron, meat, stone, grain and hardwoods might be very expensive commodities locally. Insignificant military protection. Chronic poverty.

Benefit: autonomy, exclusivity, strong isolation from modernity and crowds

rural pioneer
Buy up adjacent country or ghost town lots in America. Smokey Mts might be a good pick.

Cost: initial lack of work, accountable to surrounding governments

Benefit: eventually agrarian and semi-autonomous, semi-isolation from modernity and crowds

urban pioneer
Buy up cheap inner city housing and populate local government. Many metal bands started in this setting.

Cost: chronic poverty and almost no agriculture, accountable to surrounding governments, high crime environment

Benefit: eventually semi-autonomous, close proximity to metal culture venues and patrons

arcology pioneer
Experimental society design ostensibly for academic research for post-carbon society and sociology.

Cost: reliance on startup grants, engineers, scientists, scholars. Accountable to outsider expectations and surrounding government.

Benefit: living off the land, green tech, localized economy, limited modernity and no crowds. Semi-autonomous.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: DionysianDeath on December 01, 2007, 05:55:12 PM
Viridovix, those last three options are actually highly do-able, and good ideas. Well, the urban pioneer one has obvious problems, but could potentially be a jumping point to something better... it depends on where we're talking about, too. Harder in the States than Europe.

I'd like to see a really serious thread on this. I'm going to try to come up with some ideas, because it's clear to me that there are a lot of people who actually regard this as a good idea and could approach it from a serious perspective... It's all do-able.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Horrific Prophecies on December 01, 2007, 10:42:51 PM
Quote
theme park
...


Why does this have to be a 'theme park'? When I thought of an independent society I envisioned a "metal/medieval/gothic/renaissance"-like community, not a business. I'm not sure the idea of outside investors is too good -then again who of us has the money for this (or the other ideas that require large amounts of $$$)? Otherwise this is an ok idea. An independent society like this could be a role model for the rest of the world (if publicised effectively) and could serve much the same purpose as the "arcology pioneer" option (albeit on a more basic level, at least scientifically), although once it got going and people were interested, it could develop into this.
Would we be aiming to build these societies across the globe? Finding the numbers for a society in several countries could be hard. Then again, we don't want one big multicultural one. Or is one nation (America ::)) selected for the 'experiment'?
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Christ Fucking Malarkey on December 09, 2007, 02:14:34 PM
Ecologists speak of a concept called the "metapopulation" (http://www.ramas.com/mpmodels.htm), wherein smaller populations can be considered as an integrated whole. Taking this into consideration, we need not speak of establishing a locality in which we should hope to foster Hessian ideals.

During a run with my bandmate, we spoke of the manner in which art was supported during the Classical period of Western music: talented composers were commissioned by nobility to create magnificant pieces, in exchange for hospitality and some form of financial reimbursement. Oftentimes, this economic structure enabled composers to travel throughout the European continent to bolster their reputation and acquaint new audiences with their work.

Such a paradigm could certainly be revived in our times. If we wish to support a healthy metal community, we need to recognize that we live in a global, consumerist society. Only then will we be able to create the opportunity for the best bands to move efficiently through the world and reach a larger audience. We can "commission" artists such as Crimson Massacre and help make a national tour a reality, by offering our homes and financial buffering for such performers. Something similar to this had been done to make the Demilich U.S. tour a reality; why not make this into a permanent institution?

Granted, there are far too many peons within the current metal community (the ANUS notwithstanding) to make this a reliable system. I have faith, however, that positive, honorable individuals will help metal transcend the same social format that exists for the entertainment industries. If we wish to have metal acknowledged as a true art, we will have to invest our trust!
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: antithetikal on December 09, 2007, 08:18:14 PM
I agree with you Christ Fucking Malarkey. But I also think metal should dissociate itself from the rock mentality and adopt a classical one. By this, I mean metal should be presented to the public in a different manner. Just like classical music nowadays.
The point is to make it less accessible for those who merely want to get drunk and bang their brainless heads like ragging (and hairless) apes.

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Murder_Soul on December 10, 2007, 10:05:58 AM
A metal society would probably be lame. Metal would become the mainstream, and become generic.

Hlidskjalf: Your being too elitist about it. Music is what music is. People like it for what it. The whole point of going to shows is the atmosphere, the pits, the people, etc.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: antithetikal on December 10, 2007, 01:08:40 PM
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A metal society would probably be lame. Metal would become the mainstream, and become generic.

Hlidskjalf: Your being too elitist about it. Music is what music is. People like it for what it. The whole point of going to shows is the atmosphere, the pits, the people, etc.


The whole point of going to shows is to become 'generic' then. You are being contradictory in your statements.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: DionysianDeath on December 10, 2007, 01:39:58 PM
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Hlidskjalf: Your being too elitist about it. Music is what music is. People like it for what it. The whole point of going to shows is the atmosphere, the pits, the people, etc.


Sometimes people feel insecure about their own limitations, so naturally gravitate to statements like "X is what X is", which is really only a semi-cryptic way of saying "X can never be more than a reflection of my own psyche, because otherwise that would be threatening and imply that my own perspectives and thought processes are incomplete".

This is what happens when we create a society that values everyone's opinion equally. The least qualified of us suddenly have the "right" to define all things as they see fit. When we apply this on a civilization sized scale, we have a vast populace fleeing en masse into individualistic, solipsistic fantasy worlds. This is both dangerous on a global ecological level and extremely boring for the minority of us who wish to reach higher.

Let's work together to systematically take that right away.

Perhaps we should shift this discussion for the moment from "what would a metal society look like" to "what purpose would a metal society fill".

I see the possibility of Hessian communities providing a basis for Hessians to support each other through mutual aid on a practical, social and ideological level. When we work together to ease each other of our financial and work related burdens, we all have to work less. This means collective housing, collective farming, and skillsharing; a functioning, real world community with each person fulfilling a role. Reducing our dependence on "the system" to an increasingly minimal level, this provides us with more time to develop ourselves, our ideas and our goals. Working collectively on our ideas and goals ensures that we are more realistic and that our actions are more potent.

What ideas and goals are we talking about?

Well, this basically comes down to the question "What is the point of being Hessian".

Answer: To be a Hessian is to recognize and LIVE the direct relationship between Hessian music and certain ideologies, ways of viewing the world and ways of shaping our lives. This can possibly include nationalism, "fascism" (a crude catch-all word for the '3rd Position'), the establishment of a more holistic community that is directly linked to the natural world, the establishment of a more spiritually rich society, the establishment of a society that is alive with Vir, and so on and so forth.

People unfamiliar with the ideas I'm talking about should look deeper into the literature being put out by Corrupt and ANUS. Ultimately, "Hessianism" is the link between these ideas and heavy metal music.

A Hessian community = the literal, real world networking and mutual support of like minded Hessians for the purpose of fulfilling Transcendant, "Third Positionist" goals.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Murder_Soul on December 10, 2007, 03:33:24 PM
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The whole point of going to shows is to become 'generic' then. You are being contradictory in your statements.

Well then, what do you do at shows? Personally, I don't go to shows. I don't see much of a point. Maybe at some later time, but not now.

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Sometimes people feel insecure about their own limitations, so naturally gravitate to statements like "X is what X is", which is really only a semi-cryptic way of saying "X can never be more than a reflection of my own psyche, because otherwise that would be threatening and imply that my own perspectives and thought processes are incomplete".

This is what happens when we create a society that values everyone's opinion equally. The least qualified of us suddenly have the "right" to define all things as they see fit. When we apply this on a civilization sized scale, we have a vast populace fleeing en masse into individualistic, solipsistic fantasy worlds. This is both dangerous on a global ecological level and extremely boring for the minority of us who wish to reach higher.

Let's work together to systematically take that right away.

Perhaps we should shift this discussion for the moment from "what would a metal society look like" to "what purpose would a metal society fill".

I see the possibility of Hessian communities providing a basis for Hessians to support each other through mutual aid on a practical, social and ideological level. When we work together to ease each other of our financial and work related burdens, we all have to work less. This means collective housing, collective farming, and skillsharing; a functioning, real world community with each person fulfilling a role. Reducing our dependence on "the system" to an increasingly minimal level, this provides us with more time to develop ourselves, our ideas and our goals. Working collectively on our ideas and goals ensures that we are more realistic and that our actions are more potent.

What ideas and goals are we talking about?

Well, this basically comes down to the question "What is the point of being Hessian".

Answer: To be a Hessian is to recognize and LIVE the direct relationship between Hessian music and certain ideologies, ways of viewing the world and ways of shaping our lives. This can possibly include nationalism, "fascism" (a crude catch-all word for the '3rd Position'), the establishment of a more holistic community that is directly linked to the natural world, the establishment of a more spiritually rich society, the establishment of a society that is alive with Vir, and so on and so forth.

People unfamiliar with the ideas I'm talking about should look deeper into the literature being put out by Corrupt and ANUS. Ultimately, "Hessianism" is the link between these ideas and heavy metal music.

A Hessian community = the literal, real world networking and mutual support of like minded Hessians for the purpose of fulfilling Transcendant, "Third Positionist" goals.

What your describing is communism for a metal community.

Now, I'm not going to address all your points, but heres what I think.

Most people with your mentality are nuts. Metal is music. You seem to want to make it a social class and make everyone the same. Metals music. Without individuality, the music will fall. If everyone had the same mentality as you and other here have, every band would sound the same. Much like a fellow member made about how metal has to be anti-religion. No it doesn't, it's a style of music. people can do what they want.

I see no point in your "metal society" because as you describe it, it has nothing to do with music, you just want to make a fascist commune. How does this have anything to do with the music?
Furthermore, who are you to define who's the "least qualified"? I'm pretty sure if we talked to almost all of the bands you guys admire, they would think your nuts. Metal doesn't have anything to do with this, it's a form of music, an art.

So I don't think I'm going to bother even continuing this argument. From reading the whole Nile raid, you guys seem to have a philosophically retarded view of things, that it would be pointless to argue about.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: antithetikal on December 10, 2007, 03:44:25 PM
Murder_Soul, I won't waste my time correcting your spelling mistakes, it would take me approximately one year or so.
Now, tell me, why are you here then? For the music? This forum isn't only about the music, but about the ideas behind them. Metal cannot be considered as simply entertaining music. Since, it's quite obvious to me, that the imagery used isn't suited for that purpose. Are you one of those that enjoy shows? Showing his new metal t-shirt? Smoking some weed and hailing to Satan like there's no tomorrow?
That's what you sound like.

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Murder_Soul on December 10, 2007, 04:02:23 PM
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Murder_Soul, I won't waste my time correcting your spelling mistakes, it would take me approximately one year or so.
Now, tell me, why are you here then? For the music? This forum isn't only about the music, but about the ideas behind them. Metal cannot be considered as simply entertaining music. Since, it's quite obvious to me, that the imagery used isn't suited for that purpose. Are you one of those that enjoy shows? Showing his new metal t-shirt? Smoking some weed and hailing to Satan like there's no tomorrow?
That's what you sound like.

 

Actually I originally came here because I thought it seemed like a cool metal forum. Read a few posts then decided to stay away because of the elitism here.

I then came back after seeing the lies spread about Chuck S chuldiner asking for proof, when no one could back them up.

Spelling mistakes? Don't really care about that here.
Satan? Well, first off, most black metal bands talk about Satan as a literal deity, so these bands you admire go against your beliefs. Personally I think Satan was made up by the Christians, seeing as I have no proof in his existence.
Weed? Tried it once. Found it to not be worth it. I really have no use for drugs.
Showing a metal shirt? I do wear a few band shirts, but as do most people. I'll support the bands I like however I like.

I suggest you go talk to some of these bands that you admire on myspace or email about your ideas. I'm sure they don't share the same ideas. I'm sure most will wonder what the hell your talking about. Metal can be about anything. What each band portrays is it's own ideas. Even the nihilistic bands will think you Nietzscheians are nuts.

And since we're talking, I have 1 question on this subject. I'm assuming you've read Nietzsche's works. In TOTI for instance, Nietzsche claims that Nihilism is the result of a Christian realizing the death of god, and proceeds to attack nihilism.

Now, even though you guys don't believe in true nihilism, but instead, Nietzsche's ideas and labeling them nihilism, why do you guys label your selves nihilists? Even more so, do you realize that Nietzsche was against Nihilism?
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: DionysianDeath on December 10, 2007, 04:19:16 PM
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Most people with your mentality are nuts...


I hate to have to remind you of this, but the people who rule society, who invent things, who create ideas and make things happen are ALWAYS regarded as "nuts" by the majority of human beings.

Anyway, I wasn't attempting to win you over. When I was talking about depriving people of rights, I was talking about you. Your opinion doesn't matter anywhere reality, and especially not here. You were born to be a slave, and you will fulfill that task until you die, regardless of whom your master is.

Now. Consider that you're wasting our time. You have no desire to contribute. You obviously haven't familiarized yourself with the background material. We're not trying to include you. We're trying to come up with ideas and put them into practice. Don't post here anymore if you have nothing to contribute except for the rancid air that your whining amounts to.

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Murder_Soul on December 11, 2007, 10:49:39 AM
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I hate to have to remind you of this, but the people who rule society, who invent things, who create ideas and make things happen are ALWAYS regarded as "nuts" by the majority of human beings.

Anyway, I wasn't attempting to win you over. When I was talking about depriving people of rights, I was talking about you. Your opinion doesn't matter anywhere reality, and especially not here. You were born to be a slave, and you will fulfill that task until you die, regardless of whom your master is.

Now. Consider that you're wasting our time. You have no desire to contribute. You obviously haven't familiarized yourself with the background material. We're not trying to include you. We're trying to come up with ideas and put them into practice. Don't post here anymore if you have nothing to contribute except for the rancid air that your whining amounts to.


What am I a slave to? Your forgetting the basic aspect of nihilism, there is no absolute truth. Whatever your truth is, doesn't apply to me, and vice versa.

How are you guys going to bring upon any change? You don't rule society, your not inventing things, your talking about your theories on a board.


Just remember, nihilism is a Christian moral. Your claiming that there is an ultimate truth to be achieved, and there isn't. An active nihilist tries to destroy all values, including truth, which you claim to have.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Christ Fucking Malarkey on December 11, 2007, 11:19:09 AM
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An active nihilist tries to destroy all values, including truth, which you claim to have.


Wrong. An active nihilist realizes there is nothing to destroy. You and I, and everything we perceive, are nothing more than a fart in the wind. Once one acknowledges that manifestation is illusory, things become interesting; coincidentally, it isn't until then that one can act upon the present circumstances effectively.

You're either working towards the dissolution of the modern nightmare (disengaging the circuit breaker), or you and your ego will inevitably meet the same fate as these children and their plastic bag:

(http://autonomoussource.com/mt-static/images/newplathing.jpg)
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: pagan980938127 on December 11, 2007, 12:17:33 PM
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What your describing is communism for a metal community.

Actually, not.

A disturbing trend I've noticed on the forum recently is for some moron to find a common thread between two ideologies and then claim that they are identical.  Similar logical ignorance occurs conversely, when two ideologies are not identical and are perceived as lacking any intersection.  Stated that way, I believe you can see where you erred.

As far as I understand, communism as a political-economic ideology attempts to create a society where all productive means (capital) are owned collectively, often regulated by a strong central government.  To achieve this it panders to the masses, feeding on the resentment of their own ineptitude to revolt against the successful few.  In practice, communism is associated with catastrophic failure: incompetence, famine, oppression, inefficiency - even less than the sum of its parts.

Communism is NOT the same as living in a communal fashion.  Humans are social creatures, and since the beginning of the species we have organized into "tribes" that pooled together resources out of necessity.  It provided protection against natural disasters (drought, floods, etc) and invading tribes, and allowed the community to take advantage of the relative skills of each member.

The largest difference between that and what we experience in modern society, was the necessity of individuals to simply fail, to be rejected and left behind for the good of the tribe.  Humanity made its greatest evolutionary progress in that time.  That is actually very contrary to democracy, liberalism, and especially communism, which seek to establish justifications for every member's existence and sustain as many as possible.  Or rather, those members who conform to the prescribed view of reality.  That is where they derive their "strength," which is inevitably a suicidal end.

What many of us on this forum have perceived is that modern society is broken.  Why continue repeating its mistakes?  Why debate pointless definitions?  Let's find a better path forward and attempt to follow it.  It turns out that 1000 people each with his own different mind and direction, spread all over the world will never be heard or effect real change.  Like a mall shooting, you will have shock press coverage for a few days or weeks and then fade back into obscurity.

As DionysianDeath has stated, we are not interested in the masses.  They will always follow the most convincing leaders, and right now those leaders are corrupt, selfish, and short-sighted.  The few who see that need to step up into that void.  Not "metalheads", not "elitists" or "fascists", but capable individuals.  Those who see the challenge ahead and despair, are fools and NOT the sort to be included in this vision.

I see nothing wrong with small groups of like-minded people (tribes) distancing themselves from society, it is after all more logical than merely sitting on your ass and complaining.  There are then at least two tasks: to fortify the tribe and await the impending collapse, also to make periodic "excursions" into society to recruit new members and spread propaganda (we'd be great at that :D).

So what role does music and in a greater sense art, play in this vision?  You have to understand that art is not only about the senses, but the mind as well.  It always communicates ideas, and what is an idea to your ear or your eye?  Just an electrical signal which can activate certain parts of the brain to feel pleasure or disgust.  If that is where the average person stops, then so be it.  They do NOT define the whole nor the aspirations of a few.

Further, as art communicates ideas then it may be a more direct method than words.  We can waste many words and perhaps never reach the same connection or lucidity implied by a single piece of great art.  We can express our common interests through that art, and as it evolves come closer to what we truly mean.

If for example, we wanted to establish a society which respects and nurtures classical Indo-European philosophy and spirituality, then what better expression of this goal than great classical art?  I won't pretend that most metal fits into this category, it is limited in some ways by its origins (those of sex, drugs, and pointless expressions of individualism) and also because people do not take it seriously.  Metal possesses certain worthy strands however: heroism, love of nature, acceptance of death, survival of the strong.

The opinion of the artist is only technically relevant, their work may be more or less significant than they realize.  Though as a rule, moronic artists will create moronic art and as with every aspect of society they are none too few.  Sometimes I think this site assigns more value to certain music than its worth, but as with the paradox of complaining and doing nothing to change, there is little value in your argument without offering a better alternative.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: ASBO on December 11, 2007, 04:00:07 PM
A metal society would probably be like the small towns of central Europe.

People don't work much, but when they do, they do something that's actually vital.

They spend a lot of time in contemplation or enjoying each other.

Sometimes, they drink and raise hell and even sometimes get killed.

They are intolerant of those who are weaker, stupider, or from elsewhere.

They know they're mortal. They know no religion or purchased thing can fix that. They don't spend much time shopping.

You can't find a minivan anywhere.

They do not have a sense of charity. People who need charity are encouraged to go elsewhere, because they're useless.

They know that every extra person they take on means they have to work harder, so they want these people to be good people, capable of doing good things.

No middle managers as a result.

Last guy who came through selling iPods was found hanging from a tree with a severed negro arm four foot deep in his dead ass.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: JJ on December 27, 2007, 06:27:38 PM
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What am I a slave to? Your forgetting the basic aspect of nihilism, there is no absolute truth. Whatever your truth is, doesn't apply to me, and vice versa.

How are you guys going to bring upon any change? You don't rule society, your not inventing things, your talking about your theories on a board.
 


You're a slave to mediocrity that is modern society. The basic aspect of Nihilism is Reality, which applies to every one. The reality of metal shows is the music and people are AIDS infested because metal culture became identical to the domiant culture created for commoners.  
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: ASBO on December 28, 2007, 05:44:46 AM
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The reality of metal shows is the music and people are AIDS infested because metal culture became identical to the domiant culture created for commoners.  


This is why metalheads despise sell outs.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: N0thing on December 29, 2007, 02:29:03 PM
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You're a slave to mediocrity that is modern society.
How so? I don't try to "fit in", which I guess your trying to say. If I did, I would wear abercrombie and listen to emo and/or rap. if thats not what you mean, then chances are you too are a slave to mediocrity.
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The basic aspect of Nihilism is Reality, which applies to every one.

Wrong. The basic concept of nihilism is nothing. Nihilism is the belief in nothing, and that there is no purpose to life. Some here argue that you can give life it's own meaning, but thats just silly, since you can't give nothing value.
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The reality of metal shows is the music and people are AIDS infested because metal culture became identical to the domiant culture created for commoners.  
So, if the music is "AIDS infested", why do you listen to it?


And one other thing, what is it with you people and AIDS? Do you have some sort of fetish for it? It really just seems immature and childish. Ok, if you don't like something, why not just say that you don't like it, instead of insisting it has AIDS? Much like the silly remarks involving Evil Chuck I see on here.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: ASBO on December 30, 2007, 03:59:41 AM
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The basic concept of nihilism is nothing. Nihilism is the belief in nothing, and that there is no purpose to life. Some here argue that you can give life it's own meaning, but thats just silly, since you can't give nothing value.


Nothing is a value, as opposed to an absence of value, so it necessarily creates other values.

Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on December 30, 2007, 07:38:49 AM
How can nihilism be a belief when beliefs would mean nothing? Nihilism is therefore not a belief in what reality is; it is reality.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: N0thing on December 30, 2007, 06:37:29 PM
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How can nihilism be a belief when beliefs would mean nothing? Nihilism is therefore not a belief in what reality is; it is reality.

No, it is a belief that reality, does not exist. I guess the reasoning is, once you die, your dead. Thats it. Nothing can't become something. 0 can't become 1 or hold any value. Your suggesting a paradox.
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Nothing is a value, as opposed to an absence of value, so it necessarily creates other values.


No. Nothing is nothing. Your creating a paradox.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: ASBO on January 08, 2008, 02:47:27 PM
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No. Nothing is nothing. Your creating a paradox.


Nothing is nothing, except when observed by a human being. Then it is the recognition of nothing. When you recognize that nothing in life has inherent worth, you make your own, based on what is beautiful or powerful.

That's why metal exists, in this world of slaves, drones, parasites and priests.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on January 10, 2008, 07:42:23 PM
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No, it is a belief that reality, does not exist. I guess the reasoning is, once you die, your dead. Thats it. Nothing can't become something. 0 can't become 1 or hold any value. Your suggesting a paradox.
No. Nothing is nothing. Your creating a paradox.


It is a mistake to assume that nihilism must present itself in atheism, because the idea of a certainty like atheism is to claim knowledge and wisdom where nihilism is the realization that wisdom comes from understanding you know nothing. Hence nihilism can only be presented as an agnostic point of view.  
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: sgtcrom on January 12, 2008, 06:47:08 AM
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I think the hardest parts to organise would be:

1. The land. Where would this metal civilization be? Someone earlier mentioned squatting. Squatting is not for a large group of people wishing to leave society. Although it shouldn't be so, every piece of land on earth (as far as I know) is owned by some government. Living on this land means everyone would have to subject to their laws, their punishments, their TAX (fuck!), etc: all the bad things that come with idiotic modern ruling.
What would we do? Buy a giant piece of land and ask them to remove it from their country? As if any government is just going to hand over land for a new country consisting solely of war-mongering society-hating metalheads.


I know! It's quite the bummer. Here's a couple of ideas I've been entertaining lately:

1. Antarctica and Pykrete. Antarctica is a whole continent free for the picking. Sure, there's some research and meteorology types down there, but they're few and far between and easily avoided.

We could get up a huge expedition to Antarctica and make immense floating cities out of Pykrete (frozen sawdust and water -- check it out on Youtube or History Channel). Since there's land under the ice in Antarctica, we find some places where it's not so hard to get to the bedrock, dig in and take advantage of the geothermal gradient for heating purposes.

So, we'd have a permanent base underground (ala Robert Heinlein's moon tunnel dwellers in "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress", which also happens to be a terrific formula for pulling off a cell-based revolution) AND we'd have a bunch of floating Pykrete city-states trolling the seas.

People that can handle/see the validity of all forms of metal can man the Antarctic base. People who adhere to only certain types of metal can select whichever floating city-state suits them best, as each will have its own genre-based focus. In this way, we can avoid conflict between screech-loving Black Metal-heads and the deep gutturals of the Brutal Death crowd.

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As fun as it could briefly be, waging war upon a country for a piece of their land probably wouldnt do much good.


Yeah, war is always more fun in lyrics and movies.

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2. Things we'd need from modern society.
We cant make our own electric plants, computers, hospital equipment, internet, etc. Can we? How would we get stuff like this in this society?


I think you ask a very important question here. The answer is "Yes, the fuck indeed, we CAN!!!"

The trick, I believe, is selective recruitment. Instead of looking for a bunch of metalheads and hoping one is a doctor or engineer or computer scientist, find doctors, engineers and comp-sci people and see which ones are metalheads.

It's also important to note that every one of us has a brain. We can use them. I already know enough Physics, Math and Chemistry to contribute to the electricity generation problem or to learn how to make needed drugs like anti-biotics.

More importantly, I know how to read books. Everything we need to know (including modern medicine) is in them. 9/10ths of the subjects they program us to be intimidated by aren't really all that fucking difficult to understand.

Recall the scene in "Good Will Hunting" where Matt Damon rips Harvard boy an intellectual "new one" and reveals at the end that he got all his information by using his brain and his library card, and it only cost him $1.50 in late return fees.

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3. People.
Sure, there would be plenty of people willing to do this (fuck, i'm in), but what are the chances of there being enough numbers of:
-doctors/surgeons/other medical-sort
-builders/plumbers/electricians/etc
-women (important: I can't be the only one who thinks most people on this forum are male)
- ...fuck it, im too tired. All the kinds of positions this society/country would need.

If the numbers arent high enough in these sorts of fields, do we seek others and try convince them to come live in our world? I'm sure thered be more than a few rejections there.


I addressed this part pretty much already, we would need to poll as much of the metal community (such as it is) as possible and find our specialists amongst them.

As far as music is concerned, I think it takes a special and highly developed musical intelligence to appreciate metal. If the musical intelligence is high, then there's a good chance other facets of intelligence will be high also. I don't think we'd have a problem finding suitable people for a functional metal society or learning necessary skills when we have to. We metalheads are fucking smart. We don't need any trained robots.

If anyone rejects us, then, of course, fuck 'em. Their loss. If they want to listen to lame music and be a slave to the NWO, that's not our problem.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: ASBO on January 13, 2008, 08:53:25 AM
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The trick, I believe, is selective recruitment. Instead of looking for a bunch of metalheads and hoping one is a doctor or engineer or computer scientist, find doctors, engineers and comp-sci people and see which ones are metalheads.

It's also important to note that every one of us has a brain. We can use them. I already know enough Physics, Math and Chemistry to contribute to the electricity generation problem or to learn how to make needed drugs like anti-biotics.

More importantly, I know how to read books. Everything we need to know (including modern medicine) is in them. 9/10ths of the subjects they program us to be intimidated by aren't really all that fucking difficult to understand.

Recall the scene in "Good Will Hunting" where Matt Damon rips Harvard boy an intellectual "new one" and reveals at the end that he got all his information by using his brain and his library card, and it only cost him $1.50 in late return fees.


This is an important contribution. I think a truly Hessian state should include classical music, because many of the best thinkers like that, as well as Hessian-like Romantic literature and visual art.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: HallucinateSchizophrenia on December 18, 2009, 02:47:49 AM
Peoples build. By stereotype of course, but for some reason bears some truth.
mass:
-ridiculously skinny
-ridiculously fat
-ridiculously buff

height:
-ridiculously tall
-occasional midget

Laws: What laws?

Society: People would get along or not. stinky babies would be burned.

Housing material: Wood or bone or stone...mainly bone.

Diet: Meat (including people)

Mental state. Smart, by psychosis would be the norm.

Death: 90% suicide (done in competition of most gruesome death). 3% Black plague. 2% AIDS (there go gaahl). 4% unintentional drug od. 1% however goats die. Small amount by upside cross.

Huh.


Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: lost_wanderer on December 21, 2009, 02:49:28 PM
It depends. If people are the average metalheads who listen groups like six feet under and the likes and are just smoking weed and watching stupid shows, that society will collapse in no time. If you mean people who are intelligent and thinks that good metal music is not just intertainment, I think the society will be much lest consumerist and will respect the environment. It wil not be easy to live in that society, especially if you are incompetent, but it will be much more rewarding.  People won't start to act neurotic toward death. Mendicity shouldn't be allowed. Beggar will have to integrate society because no one will gives them money. There will be solidarity toward those in need but only to a certain point. If youre just to weak and helpless, people will throw you in the forest where you will perish by hunger or the elements. Most people who are to weak will gladdly put an end to themselve because they woundn't be a burden on society. The society will not judge you if you are weak in a domain if you are useful in another one. There will be no such things as huge city, wallmart and mcdo, that's for sure.

We are far from it. Even if we were only among metalheads.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: beyond_godlike on December 24, 2009, 08:28:29 PM
Already been made in New Mexico.
Quote
What day it is and what month is kind of irrelevant out here
http://journeyman.tv/59835/documentaries/off-the-grid.html (http://journeyman.tv/59835/documentaries/off-the-grid.html)
click on 'View Clip' to watch a 6 minute clip. Make sure to watch the last 30 seconds. Unfortunately you have to pay to watch the entire documentary.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Conservationist on December 26, 2009, 09:54:30 AM
If you mean people who are intelligent and thinks that good metal music is not just intertainment, I think the society will be much lest consumerist and will respect the environment. It wil not be easy to live in that society, especially if you are incompetent, but it will be much more rewarding.  People won't start to act neurotic toward death. Mendicity shouldn't be allowed. Beggar will have to integrate society because no one will gives them money. There will be solidarity toward those in need but only to a certain point. If youre just to weak and helpless, people will throw you in the forest where you will perish by hunger or the elements. Most people who are to weak will gladdly put an end to themselve because they woundn't be a burden on society. The society will not judge you if you are weak in a domain if you are useful in another one.

Sounds good to me.

I might also add:

Quote
Any sane nation will focus on two attributes to its value system: innocence and adventure. Innocence, especially sexual innocence, keeps us loving toward the idea of family and lets us raise people with high, clean, life-embracing ideals. Adventure is what we need to be motivated, because it makes the struggle endemic to life into a form of play. Our modern lives are without grace, without innocence and without a sense of adventure, so we are both bored and cheapened.

http://www.amerika.org/2009/organization/american-new-right/

A sense of adventure, of aggression, of paying attention to every detail and making them fit correctly -- that's metal.

A sense of minding your own business, doing what's safe or socially rewarding, and ignoring your inner needs and how they correspond to reality -- that's modern. And shit.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: scourge on May 13, 2010, 04:38:50 PM
Quote
Leaders would rise and the rest would follow or take an exit. The best leaders would determine rulership.

A libertarian and aristocratic synthesis is probably a guild based feudal technocracy. Laborers/machines instructed by journeymen guided by a master who is accountable to a systems design council. In off hours public life, generally solve our own problems with each other, resolve, forgive, and move on to better things as adult citizens or leave. The chronic problematic or irresponsible are cast out.


This is how things are to an extent, but:


Just a concept sketch
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: wahn on May 15, 2010, 07:49:47 PM
Put the covers of all your favorite albums in a collage, and you'll have a picture of that society.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Muaddib on September 28, 2010, 08:32:00 AM
Would this society strive to creat a new race, genetically superior specimens through selective breeding and/or a eugenicist approach, or would basically be a european dominated society.
While I would agree most jews are drek, I don't see a need in excluding anyone. If a society is to be truly meritocratic, one could be judged by the worth of his genes, as expressed in his psychology, physical characteristics, and the actions derived from them. They could also be assesed according to the accomplishments of their forefathers.
Your thoughts?
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Levy_Spearmen on September 28, 2010, 06:30:58 PM
While I would agree most jews are drek, I don't see a need in excluding anyone. If a society is to be truly meritocratic, one could be judged by the worth of his genes, as expressed in his psychology, physical characteristics, and the actions derived from them. They could also be assesed according to the accomplishments of their forefathers.
Your thoughts?

Your society sounds like the U.S. Replace meritocracy with capitalism and there you have it. Support Nationalism.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Helmholtz on September 29, 2010, 02:49:05 AM
Would this society strive to creat a new race, genetically superior specimens through selective breeding and/or a eugenicist approach, or would basically be a european dominated society.
While I would agree most jews are drek, I don't see a need in excluding anyone. If a society is to be truly meritocratic, one could be judged by the worth of his genes, as expressed in his psychology, physical characteristics, and the actions derived from them. They could also be assesed according to the accomplishments of their forefathers.
Your thoughts?

http://www.hessian.org/heavy_metal/2010/09/18/issue-3-helpless-prey-to-immortality/#btop6

I would say yes, though it'd likely be primarily Indo-European, just based on the nature of those who'd likely be attracted to such ideals.

[/quote]
Your society sounds like the U.S. Replace meritocracy with capitalism and there you have it. Support Nationalism.

I don't oppose nationalism, but personally I find more transcendental principles can be expressed in this medium, than in the long since far flung and corrupted roots of my people.  For those who feel the appropriate connection to their culture, and feel it can express higher truths, then by all means, it's a laudable path.

Your comparison is a bit faulty, by the way. There's nothing here that includes humanism, multiculturalism, consumerism, or any of those obfuscations.  This would be a nation significantly more virile and united in principle.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Muaddib on September 29, 2010, 04:16:00 PM
Helmholtz, It would most likely be dominantly indo-european, because as I've said, most jews are drek, and jewish culture, as interesting as it might be, is a real mish-mash of things with no definite focus.
Still, as you've said it, it's the trancendental  that we seek, a group of like minded people who have proven their genetic worth, not a bunch of kids who wouldn't get out of their comfort zone. Nationalism just does not seem enough for creating a new nation, you need an ideal first.
With that in mind, how would you describe the ideal Hessian?
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Helmholtz on September 29, 2010, 05:02:02 PM
Helmholtz, It would most likely be dominantly indo-european, because as I've said, most jews are drek, and jewish culture, as interesting as it might be, is a real mish-mash of things with no definite focus.
Still, as you've said it, it's the trancendental  that we seek, a group of like minded people who have proven their genetic worth, not a bunch of kids who wouldn't get out of their comfort zone. Nationalism just does not seem enough for creating a new nation, you need an ideal first.
With that in mind, how would you describe the ideal Hessian?

First of all, someone who is dissatisfied with modernity, not because he fails to live up to its standards, but rather because it fails to live up to his, because it fails to provide him a fulfilling experience of reality.  First, we point out that being attentive, able to experience life fully and intensely, and having a complete distaste for the mind-numbing drone of modernity's egos, emotions, and frantic activity to nullify their boredom are attributes of such an individual.  We want those who are capable, willing, and passionate about devoting themselves to a discipline, those who are serious about what they do and less so about themselves, and those who are bluntly and brutally honest with others and themselves.  Such a person will by nature be more intelligent than most, and capable of seeing things on a level that most do not.  Such a person will not be easily bored, and will pursue experiences which are worthwhile in of themselves.  Such a person will likely also have taken time to physically improve themselves for health and greater ability in their endeavours.  Such a being is, despite their brutal honesty and pursuit of greater experience (whether "good" or "evil"), not arrogant, nor spiteful.  Having the ability to experience things at a greater level than the less attentive, less bothers him, though the things which he is passionate about he will pursue ruthlessly.  The self is affirmed only so far as it leads him to greater experience, and this man with no qualms bows before someone who is greater than he, and can lead him to greater meaning, thus affirming hierarchy where it is useful.  There is a balance between self-affirmation, and self-mastery.  We want, essentially an "Ekistensens Jeger".  Such a person will have traits that are obviously manifested through achievement in any number of fields, be they athletic, academic, martial, or spiritual.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: scourge on January 17, 2011, 03:04:52 PM
Archeofuturism

Quote
In his new theory of Archeofuturism, Faye proposes a “vitalist constructivism” that implements a quasi-feudal, national but not jingoistic, united Europe that applies the traditional spirit and learning to a future in which technology plays a central role. His unstated point is that the tool must again serve the man, after centuries of the reverse; he appeals to a sense of both the pragmatic in finding historically valid solutions through tradition, and the spirit of tradition, which is one of a constructive, upward society.

He proposes that we adopt this new outlook through a voluntaristic method, first changing our values, then our art, and then finally our political expectations at about the same time a “convergence of catastrophes” (environmental, political, economic) devastate Europe. Faye’s call is for Europeans to return to being “soldiers of the Idea” again, and for them to take up not a corrective action, but a constructive desire to rebuild and build it bigger, better and more exciting than before.

http://www.amerika.org/books/archeofuturism-european-visions-of-the-post-catastrophic-age-by-guillaume-faye/

Added to next books to read list.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: ozz on February 04, 2011, 11:45:38 AM
Tattoos of demons & skulls are mandatory.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Levy_Spearmen on February 04, 2011, 03:56:30 PM
Don't forget the mandatory 8'' butt plug.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Conservationist on February 19, 2011, 09:57:17 AM
Getting past the Metalocalypse style one-dimensional stereotypes, a metal society would have the same principles as metal.

If you can imagine a technological version of medieval Europe, possibly with kingdoms separated by vast wastelands filled with mutants, that's the ideal setting.

As far as an adaptation to modern society goes, I think you'd see democracy go out the window and be replaced by a warrior aristocracy. There would be no warning tags on mattresses. Dope would be legal; in fact, almost everything would be, including the right to ride you out of town on your ass for smoking a joint. The hippie faction would not like this society, and it would enjoy exiling them to Eastern Europe like last time.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Stranger on February 20, 2011, 09:50:33 AM
most metalheads i meet, are very young, and don't fully understand the REASONS as to why the world is the way it is.

and i think it's important to know this...because if you don't understand the intentions with which the people around you do what they do...then you won't be able to cause change, or have much influence on the modern world.

i think while it would certainly improve the world with some of the ideas and concepts which are important to metalheads, compatibility...or at least coming to some type of consensus with those who aren't, is vital in order to spread your own ideas, to cause the change you're seeking.

in other words: trying to create a, "metal" society is a impossibility, but that doesn't mean that you can't change it a bit towards your favor.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: aquarius on February 21, 2011, 01:09:56 AM
Metal is a temporary manifestation of a type of thought process; dissidence. But it's inherently romanticist. In the past there was no need for metal as classical and traditional music were still relevant, in the future this will also be the case. Metal will dissappear when it's goal is achieved hence a "metal society" would be an impossibility.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: sofiana on February 21, 2011, 01:41:26 AM
Metal is a temporary manifestation of a type of thought process; dissidence. But it's inherently romanticist. In the past there was no need for metal as classical and traditional music were still relevant, in the future this will also be the case. Metal will dissappear when it's goal is achieved hence a "metal society" would be an impossibility.

Please don't say that, it is possible...
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: Conservationist on February 21, 2011, 05:38:15 AM
Metal is a temporary manifestation of a type of thought process; dissidence. But it's inherently romanticist.

That's how it seems to me also. A metal society would be any society that upheld the vision of ancient Rome or (even better) ancient Greece, including young boys for Profanatica to sodomize.
Title: Re: What would a metal society look like?
Post by: death metal black metal on July 20, 2015, 04:59:30 AM
A metal society:

- Ruled by demonic tyrants
- Disagreements solved by battle
- No laws
- Everyone collects vinyl and stays at home afraid to go out.