100% Metal Forum (Death Metal and Black Metal)

Metal => Interzone => Topic started by: death metal black metal on March 25, 2013, 05:37:15 AM

Title: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: death metal black metal on March 25, 2013, 05:37:15 AM
Last year, there was discussion here about the future of the site. We got a number of suggestions, most of them obviously impractical, but also some real ones.

Since that time, myself and a small team have done the following:

* Made a leading Death Metal news source out of this site, and updated our old articles and reviews to a new format that's more flexible;

* Made a leading New Right blog and spread our ideas to a wider community.

This is what it means to do things -- to unite groups based on idea, and further those ideas.

In the meantime, our critics have done -- well, what exactly? There are a number of spinoff sites created angrily by people who had objections to one or more of our honesty policies. All have failed or become assimilated into the same old stuff.

Our way works.

On the other side of actually doing stuff are the typical internet people. They talk big, are very critical, always have grandiose suggestions, etc. but never do anything. Their way has failed.

We're looking for people who aren't defective to work with us as writers for either deathmetal.org or amerika.org. You will join an active team on either site of people who make quality product to be read by smart people.

Internet drama queens and other defectives are being eliminated, as wherever they go, they poison discourse with their negativity. They will be happier at the big forums where they can grandstand for idiots and be acknowledged for their supreme wisdom.

If you are not an internet drama queen, and want to actually walk the walk instead of just typing on the internet, please get in touch with me: prozak -at- deathmetal -dot- org.

Danke & gracias!
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: anal_rapist on March 25, 2013, 07:19:21 AM
What if we just want to read the site?
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Cargést on March 25, 2013, 07:52:58 AM
In the meantime, our critics have done -- well, what exactly? There are a number of spinoff sites created angrily by people who had objections to one or more of our honesty policies. All have failed or become assimilated into the same old stuff.

I support much of what this site stands for, but dislike many aspects of the direction it's gone in: the esotericism is lost; much of what is being spewed forth on the blog is sub-par crap that wouldn't have been tolerated before the push to "reach a larger audience" (which almost certainly requires new content, granted).  I'd like to say that not all of the groups/sites that have branched off from here have "failed" or "become assimilated into the same old stuff", unless "the same old stuff" is code for "examining the heart of Metal, its principles and message".  There is much in the works in many places on the web.

Amusingly, one of the biggest successes of the offshoots - hessian.org, and the Hessian Zine - was assimilated into deathmetal.org.  How ironic, man!

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quality product to be read by smart people

lol
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: WAAAAAAGH! on March 25, 2013, 08:28:21 AM
I thought the quality of the deathmetal.org articles were higher before the site was directly assimilated by anus.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Jim Necroslaughter on March 25, 2013, 09:45:33 AM
Deathmetal.org and Amerika.org have blown up over the past year.  It's awesome to see the influence they're having.

Cargest - why don't you write some articles?  Give us your musings and definitive vision of what metal is and what it ought to be.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Cargést on March 25, 2013, 09:55:20 AM
I don't write much about Metal, at the moment, since I'm not listening to so much.  My writings are focused primarily on philosophy/theology, Tradition, "mysticism", psychedelics, and similar (the confines of the human experience, in short).

I honestly don't think there's all that much more that can be said about Metal: it is an instantiation of that essential quality of Man that strives towards, rather than away from, the Unknown, the Sublime, Reality, etc.  Thematically - in its spirit - it is a continuation of the perennial philosophy ("what is is"), though many bands have fucked up that expression with their own "opinions", man.  The best ones - e.g. Sabbath, Maiden, Morbid Angel, Burzum - if not actively recognising this influence (though Trey and, to a lesser extent, Varg do), at least manage to translate their experiences and interests into the same holistic context.

Sabbath = "yeah that's nice but what about this?", Maiden = "I'm killing for Glory!", MA = "PRAISE THE OLD ONES, DIE BEFORE YOU DIE", Burzum = "time to wake up from this shitty dream...".
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: crow on March 25, 2013, 10:56:02 AM
There are already so many forums for zombies and drama-queens, that it might be worthwhile to cultivate this one for those who do not fall into those categories.
The whole 'uber-man' thing can only gain traction if there are visible examples of what that means.
What does it mean, anyway?
Maybe it means no more than putting the 'human' back into humans, in defiance of whatever took it away.

Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: death metal black metal on March 26, 2013, 02:19:10 PM
Our goal has never changed at the DLA/DMU: treat metal as art, and explicate its inner workings so that it can be understood by the world at large.

When metal became popular back in 1995, the old underground made a fatal mistake: it retreated. Instead of getting in there, calling the newcomers out for the fools they were, and pointing out the obvious falseness of it all, the scene got hipsterized. People retreated into small friend groups and basically let their voices fall silent outside those they already knew.

Not content to repeat that mistake, the DMU is engaging with the mainstream-ish metal because we want to have a voice. We want to have an effect on others, to shape the community, to improve discourse on metal. You don't do that by having a small site which is isolated to all but a select group of people who, if they volunteer, only do so to further advance content for people like them.

You know what we call that?

HIPSTERISM.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be ideologically coherent; however, once you turn it into dogma, it feeds off itself as a parasite and brings itself down. There is something very wrong with dropping out and assuming that preaching to 150 other disaffected die hards on the internet will somehow make the world turn out in any positive direction at all.

Throughout history, people have made change by going in there and influencing others. That's the name of the game in any era, and it's what we intend to do.

We have not changed our standards; in fact, we've raised them. Before we took over here, this blog was praising three-note underground hipster shit bands that have now receded from memory because they were candy-ass pop or kvlty bullshit that pretended to be profound. They also wrote some great articles, which we have preserved where not sabotaged by the teams themselves.

During that era, this site got an ugly reputation because it attracted autistic-style self-righteous hipster elitists who, with a false definition of elitism (extending quality to obscurity alone), were promoting music that is outright shit and appeals to no one but the flannel-wearing hipsters who have invaded metal.

You don't fight the modern world by withdrawing. You fight it by getting in there and turning the topic of discussion to something intelligent, so that you can capture the 10% of society who can think and teach them what to do.

Hipsterism, like certain fringe political movements, is there as a surrogate for action. It is something to do to pass the time and to make yourself feel important. It doesn't work; it allows the genre you claim to care about to be ravaged, while you play paddy cakes with your hipster friends and think about how cool you are.

Since we've taken over this site again, we've gotten a number of high-profile interviews, reviews and articles out there, and they're getting into the mainstream and influencing people who wouldn't see them at a hipster clique.

Speaking of hipster cliques, all of the spin-offs of this site have failed because they formed little cliques, and then few people came, and then the people behind them gave up and went on to macrame instead so they'd have something to talk about how unique and different they are.

I don't dislike these people; they are talented writers, comrades and friends. But they are wrong in their outlook, and they have read the situation incorrectly, and there is no honorable path in refusing to say that.

Join us... we are the future. Or nurse your wounds with inflated and exaggerated self-importance, isolation and justifications for your own irrelevance. But don't try to hold us back. We will rape your eye sockets.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Goatreich on March 26, 2013, 02:48:25 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2298752/Virtual-screaming-websites-makes-more-angry.html
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Herewulf on March 26, 2013, 05:55:28 PM
Our goal has never changed at the DLA/DMU: treat metal as art, and explicate its inner workings so that it can be understood by the world at large.

Good.  We're all on the same page then, in theory.  Why, then, are you discussing footnotes like Morgengrau, has-beens like Suffocation, and offal like Bloodsoaked?  Your actions seem to be against your purpose as stated here.  Why is there mention of Neurosis and De Profundis?  These are not the heights of Metal; they're barely the mid-points.  Stick with Hod, Centurion, Birth A.D., and the music that is actually passably good, otherwise your message about the quality of composition in Metal becomes obscured.  Create more articles which explore the relationship between Classical composition and Metal, or between ambient/electronic music and Metal; talk less about average music, even if it is "flavour of the week" or whatever.

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When metal became popular back in 1995, the old underground made a fatal mistake: it retreated. Instead of getting in there, calling the newcomers out for the fools they were, and pointing out the obvious falseness of it all, the scene got hipsterized. People retreated into small friend groups and basically let their voices fall silent outside those they already knew.

Metal was never "popular" (the closest was NWOBHM); pop versions of metal have always been at least moderately popular (stadium rock, glam, nu-metal, screamo, whale metal).  Furthermore, there has always been a large amount of distaste emanating from Hessians towards poseurs.  It seems to me as if the history of the movement is being rewritten in your post so as to serve the formal changes that have occurred on this website.

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Not content to repeat that mistake, the DMU is engaging with the mainstream-ish metal because we want to have a voice.

Let me translate this for everyone: "we're going to give another platform to substandard music and its fans so that what is truly good can be heard and understood by more people".  This is not a problem in the slightest!  However, if you aren't going to be open and honest about the motivations and reasons behind such a shift, many - such as myself - are going to be confused by the new bullshit-friendly DLA.  In light of this, more recent posts make much more sense, and are far more tolerable.

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We want to have an effect on others, to shape the community, to improve discourse on metal. You don't do that by having a small site which is isolated to all but a select group of people who, if they volunteer, only do so to further advance content for people like them.

Straw man: those who have created small, "isolated" sites have almost certainly done so in order to expand their own group's understanding and appreciation of Metal.  People with the DLA's agenda would not do such a thing.  You're basically saying "people who aren't doing what we want to do don't do what we want to do".

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There is something very wrong with dropping out and assuming that preaching to 150 other disaffected die hards on the internet will somehow make the world turn out in any positive direction at all.

Again, who actually does this?  A lesser or confined web presence does not mean that the person/people involved is/are not doing anything positive; in fact, if they spend less time talking on the internet, it's likely that they're spending more time engaging with the outside world.  A point that I have raised countless times which seems never to have been addressed is that you're far more likely to influence people in person than over the internet anyway - as far as my experience of getting people hooked on proper Metal goes, the ratio is something like 8:1 in favour of real-world interaction.  It's much easier to say "fuck you, dude!" behind a username than to someone's face (especially if they're 6'4").

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Throughout history, people have made change by going in there and influencing others.

Throughout history, change has occurred when people have become fed up with what they perceive is happening at the moment, causing them to look to smaller, less well-known groups who've got it right (see most philosophical or religious shifts in all cultures across all times).

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We have not changed our standards

See above.

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in fact, we've raised them.

Bullshit. (http://www.deathmetal.org/news/de-profundis-the-emptiness-within/)

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Before we took over here, this blog was praising three-note underground hipster shit bands

LOLOLOL ILDJARN?  In all seriousness, provide examples, please.  I have been an avid reader of dm.org both before and after the "takeover", and have never, until recently, found anything unpraiseworthy on the site.  It was the height of quality, as was the DLA, and as is much, though not all, of this new incarnation.  Don't pretend that the old was somehow worse in order to justify the new.

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During that era, this site got an ugly reputation because it attracted autistic-style self-righteous hipster elitists who, with a false definition of elitism (extending quality to obscurity alone), were promoting music that is outright shit and appeals to no one but the flannel-wearing hipsters who have invaded metal.

THIS NEVER HAPPENED.  Where was the LLN worship?  I know "obscure-heads" (again, in person!); nothing associated with the DLA ever came close.  I've been here for around six years, so granted I don't know all the history, but the quality of output was utterly seemless until recently, when greater quantity almost certainly necessitated a lessened average quality (again, this is not a problem, but it is a fact).  This part of your post seems to be completely made up.

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You don't fight the modern world by withdrawing. You fight it by getting in there and turning the topic of discussion to something intelligent, so that you can capture the 10% of society who can think and teach them what to do.

This is good!  Make sure you don't sell out on the way.  So far, things seem to be going very well: I'd be glad if you could keep this up and make something worthwhile out of it, but the pitfalls are there for all to see but those who are walking straight into them.  Remember, the philosopher understands society because he is outside of the game.

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Since we've taken over this site again, we've gotten a number of high-profile interviews, reviews and articles out there, and they're getting into the mainstream and influencing people who wouldn't see them at a hipster clique.

I'd like to see interviews with Graveland, Summoning (once the album's out), or Morbid Angel ("What the fuck happened, guys?" would be a good place to start).  I'm sure the guy from Bloodsoaked is a wonderfully nice chap, but why is he being interviewed, except to pay off on his fanbase by forcing a positive outlook on this website through mutual masturbation?

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Join us... we are the future. Or nurse your wounds with inflated and exaggerated self-importance, isolation and justifications for your own irrelevance. But don't try to hold us back. We will rape your eye sockets.

I have a large group of real-life friends with whom I listen to and discuss Metal.  I put on and play gigs, and attempt to share my understanding of the genre and related subjects with the people I meet at/around those shows and other "social events".  I generally find that, as was common knowledge here only a year ago, the average meatalhead has severely limited faculties when it comes to understanding the deeper aspects of this culture; nevertheless, I persevere, and at the very least I get some of them to listen to good music in lieu of crap music.  For those "in the know", I write articles on myriad subjects, but I would never be so hopeful as to assume that the average mundane could understand what the fuck I'm talking about, let alone my friends.  At that, I'm consistently surprised at how many random internet-goers actually read what I write and see significance in it.

As far as converting the masses goes, it would seem impossible to have success over the internet, for the following reason: people go to the internet to read what they know.  They do not go to be challenged, they do not go in order to think, or to grow: they go so as to find the group they fit into and stay in it.  The mechanism that you are employing here is a clever one: alliance followed by annexation, if it'll work (and, given the quality of writing and content, it almost certainly will!).  At the same time, in order to forge those alliances, sacrifices must be made, and the first one which has been made is quality.  Many of the "old guard" have seen this and commented on it.  If you want to throw out the people who know what's up in favour of the people who'll listen to what you say, that's fair enough; even so, a bit of warning would be nice.  We've supported you and your endeavours long enough that some amount of courtesy ought be shown, surely.  Otherwise, this site has become devoid of honour.  Again, this is no criticism: it is to be expected in this age.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: death metal black metal on March 26, 2013, 07:33:15 PM
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As far as converting the masses goes, it would seem impossible to have success over the internet, for the following reason: people go to the internet to read what they know.

Exactly. Hence you give them what they know, and lead off to other more interesting things.

Very few people respond to essays; even fewer still to the Tarditionalist style of "esoteric" essay writing.

It's better to do what we've been using: leverage the news section to bring people into the reviews archive itself and the FAQ/history/philosophy/etc. which alone form the kind of statement about metal that fragmentary essays cannot.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Phoenix on March 27, 2013, 09:01:29 PM
Speaking of hipster cliques, all of the spin-offs of this site have failed because they formed little cliques, and then few people came, and then the people behind them gave up and went on to macrame instead so they'd have something to talk about how unique and different they are.

I don't dislike these people; they are talented writers, comrades and friends. But they are wrong in their outlook, and they have read the situation incorrectly, and there is no honorable path in refusing to say that.

Join us... we are the future. Or nurse your wounds with inflated and exaggerated self-importance, isolation and justifications for your own irrelevance. But don't try to hold us back. We will rape your eye sockets.

As always, I seem to be out of the loop. There seems to be much drama. Anyways, death metal black metal, I just wanted to say that your words once again ring true and it's inspiring to see a metal website with such high ideals (even if I don't agree with all your beliefs). I hope you don't get bogged down with hipsters, I hope you scale glorious heights...
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: anal_rapist on March 28, 2013, 10:56:36 AM
Your website is a creeper on this one.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Cheeseburger Zombie on March 29, 2013, 08:13:13 PM
Regarding the front page, I am of two minds, because while I think most of the bands there are mediocre, it is also something I need so I know what's out there and what to avoid, and then there's cool stuff like Birth AD and Imprecation in with the shit.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Tancred Hauteville on March 30, 2013, 10:41:46 PM
You sound bitter about the fact that some people decided that they did not like the direction you took deathmetal.org in. Now you are reaching out to find new writers, when you had a whole slew of people who admired, respected, and wanted to write for, and in collaboration with you.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: crow on March 30, 2013, 11:36:32 PM
On the contrary. He sounds like he knows what he wants and knows what he's doing.
No amount of help is much use if it isn't helpful.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Tancred Hauteville on March 31, 2013, 05:27:00 AM
I was not reffering to the overall tone of the post, just one section. Yes, he knows exactly what he is doing... and what he has done.


Whether or not the help is helpful, well if it isnt helpful it isnt help at all is it? However, it is worth keeping in mind that some helpful people who worked for this site in both its current and previous manifestation have disassociated themselves from this site. Why is it that those who have done this are now considered "failures", "defected", etc etc. As far as I remember there were no harsh words between parties, and in fact the "splinter groups" threw out an olive branch and specifically stated that they wanted to work alongside Prozak/Stevens, not compete with him.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: crow on March 31, 2013, 10:30:04 AM
That was a well-crafted reply. Impressive. It started a whole new area of investigation for me.
What do people do, when they do what they do? Why do they do what they do when they do it? What really lies behind the words they use? Do they really know, themselves, what they are doing, and why, when they do it?

I get the feeling, sometimes, that leftist thinking has burrowed down right to the level of quantum particles, and is so firmly established that there is nothing that can ever be done about it. Which returns me to the life-saving principle of: "it is what it is". And in human terms: "he does what he does".

When you consider it, you see that people do things all the time. This doing happens then. There is no way to undo it later, in the now. And so people, seeing that they didn't like what was done, then, being unable to undo it now, do something else now, in an attempt to to modify what was done then.

Thus people build a continuous house of cards that is never built well, but is a series of fixes and patches that attempt to get around the basic instability of whatever they do and have done.

Why do people ask "why"? Is it really a desire to understand? Or more a statement of disagreement and resistance?
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: scourge on March 31, 2013, 12:01:10 PM
Some possible autistic hippie-nazi hybrid finally volunteered to get off his/her/its blubbery neckbeard's duff and link to the death metal underground site on social media.

http://www.reddit.com/r/deathmetalorg/
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: crow on March 31, 2013, 02:11:16 PM
Are you saying: "Look at this, it is what it is"?
Or are you saying it is a good thing, or a bad thing?

Is it a neutral observation, a good thing, or a bad thing, to point to a "...possible autistic hippie-nazi hybrid... with a ...blubbery neckbeard's duff..."?
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: username on March 31, 2013, 03:01:53 PM
A hippie-nazi filial 1 hybrid sounds interessting if the positive sides of both could be inbred to homozygotic in the offspring, so that the offspring has the valour of the nazi and the openmindedness of the hippie.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: crow on March 31, 2013, 03:12:36 PM
The valour of the Nazi!!! I like that. Finally someone points to a worthwhile trait in a whole mass of verminized humanity.
Openmindedness of hippies? I question that. I don't really see that they were ever openminded, although they like to claim they were/are.
Where I live, there is still a thriving colony of these dinosaurs. And openminded is something they very definitely are not.

Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: username on March 31, 2013, 03:33:24 PM
I don't know anything about the hippies after all, but it seems there were different layers of hippies, where some of them were actually willing to adapt to unconform lifestyles including environmental and spiritual awareness. Ofcourse the lot of them are today very trivial, boring people, like to most conform leftists.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: David_Bale on March 31, 2013, 04:09:29 PM
Is this something like Resident Evil ? If it is I want participate !!
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: lost_wanderer on March 31, 2013, 04:19:37 PM
Some possible autistic hippie-nazi hybrid finally volunteered to get off his/her/its blubbery neckbeard's duff and link to the death metal underground site on social media.

http://www.reddit.com/r/deathmetalorg/

What is reddit.com? Is it worth it? Is there someone there with enough potential to be interested going to deathmetal.org?

I'm asking this because I feel like the majority of the internet is worthless. What about this site?
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Tralfamadorian on March 31, 2013, 06:38:12 PM
Some possible autistic hippie-nazi hybrid finally volunteered to get off his/her/its blubbery neckbeard's duff and link to the death metal underground site on social media.

http://www.reddit.com/r/deathmetalorg/

What is reddit.com? Is it worth it? Is there someone there with enough potential to be interested going to deathmetal.org?

I'm asking this because I feel like the majority of the internet is worthless. What about this site?
Taking a look at the metal subreddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/Metal) will give you a pretty good idea of the site as a whole: mostly it is an outlet for the crowd to reaffirm each other's poor taste in life decisions, but as far as content goes, there are some diamonds in the rough if you keep your eyes open.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: username on April 01, 2013, 04:12:43 AM
I believe all the pages Twitter, Reddit and such are similar to Facebook, where people share things with "friends" on a "wall."

Those social networking sites can make a troll "go viral" to dramatic degree, but it is very unpredictible when that will happen, so you cannot really design anything that that will work that way---or prevent it from happening.

The Facebook-like pages are completely controlled by herd thinking mechanisms, and there is no way to get actual communication of truths out on those pages. Think rather in terms of commercials playing on emotions  than in presentation of facts.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: death metal black metal on April 01, 2013, 04:23:50 AM
You sound bitter about the fact that some people decided that they did not like the direction you took deathmetal.org in. Now you are reaching out to find new writers, when you had a whole slew of people who admired, respected, and wanted to write for, and in collaboration with you.

That's true. Why did they leave, do you think?
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: anal_rapist on April 01, 2013, 06:44:04 AM
On Facebook, someone said it was because they didn't like the new commercial direction or the friendly web page.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: scourge on April 01, 2013, 07:46:12 AM
Some possible autistic hippie-nazi hybrid finally volunteered to get off his/her/its blubbery neckbeard's duff and link to the death metal underground site on social media.

http://www.reddit.com/r/deathmetalorg/

What is reddit.com? Is it worth it? Is there someone there with enough potential to be interested going to deathmetal.org?

I'm asking this because I feel like the majority of the internet is worthless. What about this site?

The internet is worth about what the people using it are worth. Reddit's a tool like the rest of the web. Can we use this instrument toward our ends? We have had some success for a few years from what I have seen.

To me it comes down to our individual aims, attendance and competences and not to any extrinsic mythologies of inherent wrongness of our machines and systems.

Another way of looking at this is guns don't kill. People kill.

Here is a way to view some of the friendly domains that have been submitted to reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/domain/amerika.org/
http://www.reddit.com/domain/anus.com/
http://www.reddit.com/domain/deathmetal.org/

There we can see the extent to which submitted content for each domain is noticed or ignored by the site's social media users.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: anal_rapist on April 01, 2013, 10:13:39 AM
What are our ends?
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: username on April 01, 2013, 12:15:58 PM
To destroy in the humankind the notions born from the post Medieval times thinking about the place humans has in this universe(e.g renaissance humanism," freedom & equality") and the modern cosmological understanding as it is.

 And so it is to replace so called freedom and democracy with natural aristocracy.


This means we must also destroy Facebook and Reddit and all the other pages, and in fact all of the internet. Of course it is dream thinking as of now, but in a distant future HTML and television must be forbidden, at least for the vast majority of humans.

Yes, the internet must be closed down.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Goatreich on April 01, 2013, 01:53:29 PM
Maybe the social media outlets would be more effective if they somehow incorporated cat pictures.   :'(
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Cheeseburger Zombie on April 01, 2013, 08:46:01 PM
To destroy in the humankind the notions born from the post Medieval times thinking about the place humans has in this universe(e.g renaissance humanism," freedom & equality") and the modern cosmological understanding as it is.

 And so it is to replace so called freedom and democracy with natural aristocracy.


This means we must also destroy Facebook and Reddit and all the other pages, and in fact all of the internet. Of course it is dream thinking as of now, but in a distant future HTML and television must be forbidden, at least for the vast majority of humans.

Yes, the internet must be closed down.

Pretty epic mission statement there dude.

All for a metal site?

Maybe just try to get people to listen to non shit metal...
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: username on April 01, 2013, 11:32:08 PM
The talk was about why to use the social media.

It is stupid with such a specific goal as yours, which is isolated from all of the much larger world, which in fact influence your specific interest in the first place .

Rather, one should define a meaning behind why one do things in the first place.

So instead of submitting to the social consensus attitude of the social media, like you do when you go to Reddit and writes on the wall : "Hey,look friends, I'm so hip I listen to this uncrappy metal," you should acknowledge that the social mechanisms of the social media is in fact the same that are behind that "crappy metal" is produced in the first place, and you should therefore  treat Reddit, Facebook and Twitter accordingly as enemy territory.

Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: username on April 01, 2013, 11:36:33 PM
It will affect people to shake them out of safe thougth patterns to be confronted with some of the things, that a troll migth present them with on the internet.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: anal_rapist on April 02, 2013, 07:35:24 AM
Counterattack!

Seriously, I think people are reading too much into these places. They're internet sites, not tribes.

If you start posting on them, other people will show up.

Why is everyone here so "contrarian"? Any idea that is suggested is bad, not good enough, etc etc

Just focus on the mission, writing about metal and promoting it. See if you can get into a newspaper or two.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: username on April 02, 2013, 11:47:16 AM
Don't forget what kind of people spend time reading and writing on those social media pages. You  are sure not to find an audience if you attempt to speak the truth.

Writing on Facebook is similar to masturbation : It is not that sinful, but serves no purpose and so do not deseve  to be justified with reasons.

It would make more sense to use the pages to troll/mock the hipsterish trends. I found the page "Hipster Black Metal" and a fake page of Liturgy, which seems like a more sensible approch to use Facebook rather than to write about what is true.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: JewishPhysics on April 02, 2013, 01:33:37 PM
myself and a small team have done the following:

* Made a leading Death Metal news source out of this site, and updated our old articles and reviews to a new format that's more flexible;

* Made a leading New Right blog and spread our ideas to a wider community.

This is what it means to do things -- to unite groups based on idea, and further those ideas.
You have found a pattern that works. I'm glad to see these sites doing well and hope it continues. Amerika especially has seem to really taken off.

Quote
Internet drama queens and other defectives are being eliminated, as wherever they go, they poison discourse with their negativity. They will be happier at the big forums where they can grandstand for idiots and be acknowledged for their supreme wisdom.
I think there has been some success with infiltration of big forums, but the work is soul crushing and results are slow and small.

Is it a neutral observation, a good thing, or a bad thing, to point to a "...possible autistic hippie-nazi hybrid... with a ...blubbery neckbeard's duff..."?
That was self deprecation on his part. I'm surprised nobody pointed this out for you.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: death metal black metal on April 02, 2013, 06:57:32 PM
I think there has been some success with infiltration of big forums, but the work is soul crushing and results are slow and small.

I agree, hence the transition to social networks where success is more likely. Most forums are the do-nothing-go-nowhere people, but it's good to maintain a presence in them. If 1% of the people visiting this site chose to put the links in their signatures, we'd have a much higher presence.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Tancred Hauteville on April 03, 2013, 06:56:38 PM
You sound bitter about the fact that some people decided that they did not like the direction you took deathmetal.org in. Now you are reaching out to find new writers, when you had a whole slew of people who admired, respected, and wanted to write for, and in collaboration with you.

That's true. Why did they leave, do you think?
Did they leave? Were they abandoned? Perhaps they are disillusioned? I have no doubt some feel betrayed by the new direction of the site. However, as I mentioned earlier I know for a fact that a small minority of those people who left did so with good will, neither deprecating you, nor acting as detractors....they simply disagreed with you.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Tancred Hauteville on April 03, 2013, 07:04:35 PM


Why do people ask "why"? Is it really a desire to understand? Or more a statement of disagreement and resistance?

It can be both I suppose, it depends on the context and the disposition of the person at a given time. They may have a genuine desire for truth and thus ask "why" in order to learn. Others ask "why" out of resentment for the given, in order to rationalize a way out of the constraints imposed upon them by reality, like child when they are told they cannot have a chocolate bar.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: death metal black metal on April 03, 2013, 07:31:48 PM
However, as I mentioned earlier I know for a fact that a small minority of those people who left did so with good will, neither deprecating you, nor acting as detractors....they simply disagreed with you.

And not to be too blunt but: who cares, then? Doesn't sound like a harm occurred to them.

Most people however oppose this direction because they want a clubhouse, and I don't think we should shy away from bashing that narrow-minded short-sighted mentality.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Tancred Hauteville on April 03, 2013, 07:57:54 PM
However, as I mentioned earlier I know for a fact that a small minority of those people who left did so with good will, neither deprecating you, nor acting as detractors....they simply disagreed with you.


Most people however oppose this direction because they want a clubhouse, and I don't think we should shy away from bashing that narrow-minded short-sighted mentality.

Yes, that may be true for many of the people that "left", but not all and I think that has been lost sight of here.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Humanicide on April 03, 2013, 08:32:36 PM
Don't forget what kind of people spend time reading and writing on those social media pages. You  are sure not to find an audience if you attempt to speak the truth.

Writing on Facebook is similar to masturbation : It is not that sinful, but serves no purpose and so do not deseve  to be justified with reasons.


This is a flawed comparison. Masturbation (in moderation) promotes good prostate health.

Additionally, I agree with the rapist. Don't read too much into these sites, they're fads. Most of the people on them don't have any sort of concept of a tribe to begin with. It's all about them, to them. Reach the ones on those sites that can see past it.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Annihilation on April 04, 2013, 12:25:30 AM
Lots of opinions on the internet. Apply real-world initiative, cooperation, and planning and things will get done. Dealing with one another anonymously and through limited media will/has cause problems. Ever had a job? Were you successful? Apply/consider those same principles that caused things to get done, good or not.

Simple: some/many disagree here. If you haven't learned it by now, this is "Prozak's" site, always has been. Understandable - most, if not all of the work has been done by this one person (maybe you could say a few), and compiled herein (ANUS, Deathmetal, Corrupt, whatever). Obviously this person likes sharing this with others, or enjoys the sense of control/influence/socializing that it creates. Most people enjoy this sort of thing.

If you contribute wholeheartedly, you will be doing so to fulfill the desires of the leader here, which will change (as they have already) multiple times. Nothing necessarily wrong with this - nearly everyone else here would probably do the same thing if they had a similar hobby, and get frustrated with people who are nothing more than onlookers (forum-users) laying claim to their work and space.

There are better things to do than criticize, though sometimes it can be helpful. You are better off doing other things  than criticizing something you ultimately do not plan to contribute to, unless you are constructive and specific. You probably have other things you could do that would be more productive and real: cook, go to the gym, take a hike, read a book, reflect, go on a date, listen to metal, go to a concert, and so on.

/opinion
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: death metal black metal on April 04, 2013, 05:31:52 AM
Did they leave? Were they abandoned? Perhaps they are disillusioned? I have no doubt some feel betrayed by the new direction of the site. However, as I mentioned earlier I know for a fact that a small minority of those people who left did so with good will, neither deprecating you, nor acting as detractors....they simply disagreed with you.

Do you speak for this group? That authorizes me to speak in turn; otherwise, you're hitting a man when he can't respond, and that makes you a dickhead who needs to be removed.

Let's look at your words and only your words, since you have made these public, not I.

You affirm however, that these people did leave and stop contributing because something they disagreed with happened. In other words, they wanted total control, and when they couldn't have it, they bolted for the hills.

Is that what you're saying?

Have we deprecated these people, or acted as detractors?

What exactly is their complaint? (You mentioned "disillusioned." This doesn't happen without a complaint.)

How does someone feel "betrayed" (your words, again) by the new direction of the site?

Is there actually a new direction?

Did they wait to see what that direction was?

Now that you've opened this can of worms, tell us everything.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: anal_rapist on April 04, 2013, 10:28:16 AM
Masturbation (in moderation) promotes good prostate health.

This is a really important observation we shouldn't lose sight of. How many times aday is moderation?
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: JewishPhysics on April 04, 2013, 11:57:50 AM
Given the direction this thread is taking, I feel compelled to write the following as essentially a neutral third party:

I wrote for Amerika for a short period, but ultimately stopped because I didn't feel my material was up to the standards of the site and thus I didn't want to drag it down. During my time there, I was essentially given complete autonomy. I could write about whatever I wanted. Criticism was always constructive, and the people there were always direct, honest, and polite. Furthermore, it was assumed that complete agreement would never be a reality, so content was not reviewed to make sure it fit completely in line with some ideology. In no way is Brett a control freak or egomaniac. If you are competent and not an asshole, you can basically contribute as you see fit, which is far more generous than pretty much any other organization on the net.

My experience has essentially been the same with helping to "keep" the audiofile. Even in times when I was flaky or temporarily retarded, the worst I ever got from anybody was indifference.

With regard to the change in this site specifically, I would present the following. The old website had an incomplete version of the Dark Legions archive, was focused mostly on the history of death metal, and did a lot of "lost gem" reviews, etc. The new version has the complete Dark Legions archive and has a front page dedicated to news and original content, including interviews. It seems quite clear that the new approach is more likely to be effective in drawing in people to the relevant content.

I don't know anything about the internal bickering going on, but I know, based on the character of the individuals involved in running these sites, that it takes quite a lot to get under their skin. Given that there is a looming impression of a drastic need to purge this place, I can only assume that some serious bullshit has been happening.

I don't know if I'm considered a defective or not, given some of my previous behavior, but if I'm deemed so I can only conclude the following:
1) I'm a grade A asshole
2) I need to do some serious introspection

I don't consider the people running this place perfect. But they certainly aren't incompetent, backstabbing, or dishonest. They know what they're doing. I can't imagine how they put up with all the negativity. They are certainly better men than I.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: crow on April 04, 2013, 01:32:51 PM
Ah. A sane and reasonable man. Nice one :)
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: death metal black metal on April 04, 2013, 08:04:27 PM
JewishPhysics: I remember your articles being good. It's hard to feel confident around writers like Crow and Ted Swanson -- tell me about it. They're good. But surely the sheer amount of late-night turds I publish should make you more confident.

Thanks to both you and Annihilation for some sanity.

I bear no ill-will toward the former team; I know what needs to be done, however, to reach the state of power from which we can accomplish our goals.

To that end, I've removed all politics from the site. They are obvious, and not really political. At this point, the essentialism I speak of isn't left, right, political or even social. It's just rabid realism.

If any of the former team are discontented, please email me. The address has not changed. I hold no grudges, schadenfreudes or other ill-will.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Humanicide on April 05, 2013, 01:17:28 PM
Masturbation (in moderation) promotes good prostate health.

This is a really important observation we shouldn't lose sight of. How many times aday is moderation?

About 20.

But seriously, once a week is enough. Too much of it and we all know what happens.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: Goatreich on April 05, 2013, 01:20:14 PM
Bypass self. Go straight for EWE.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: aquarius on April 05, 2013, 07:33:38 PM
I thought the new site was great. Do you honestly know any other metal site that rivals it? The constant interviews, mini-reviews, and other short articles create a momentum and this forms into a dynamic environment that can continue to grow. It is truly great work! and I also discovered lots of interesting new music because of it.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: scourge on April 05, 2013, 08:10:23 PM
The new site is turning into a better resource for all four of us who even know about it. Such a waste.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: fallot on April 06, 2013, 05:02:25 AM
The music has to come through too, otherwise its just some irrelevant nostalgia to most people. Can't really expect much success if there isn't anything much to talk about or report that's interesting, unless you totally sell out or something. It's a great site.
Title: Re: Separating the real humans from the zombies (DeathMetal.org)
Post by: death metal black metal on April 07, 2013, 12:12:01 PM
We're trying to keep it relevant and interesting, injecting our views into the mainstream and gaining power while doing so. We have some upcoming coverage that should make that clear.

What would really help would be people who could handle the production of 1-3 articles per day so that I could work on /bands. That's the only real limiting factor here: time.

I think many people didn't want to deal with the time commitment of actually making a change, and so haven't wanted us to take this step. It's a big one. But the fact is, it's how you change the world. So we're doing it.

Growth and hopefully victory. It would go a lot faster if we had more people contributing.