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Metal => Interzone => Topic started by: death metal black metal on September 08, 2013, 06:59:33 AM

Title: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: death metal black metal on September 08, 2013, 06:59:33 AM
A virus can't discriminate
It kills all it infects
And for those who have survived
There isn't much left

It reaches out in the night
Preying on its victims
No way to survive
You'll die of the plague

http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/nuclearassault/gameover.html#18
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: Jim Necroslaughter on September 08, 2013, 12:39:15 PM
We could use a good old fashioned plague.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: crow on September 08, 2013, 01:11:24 PM
The old-fashioned ones don't work so well any more.
Look at how many people get Bubonic Plague and live.
I myself had Typhoid Fever and made it (barely).
Still, with antibiotics being haXX0red more and more by clever bugs, who knows?
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: trystero on September 08, 2013, 02:45:12 PM
Unnatural humanoids proud to be one of their kind
Unique imperfections bent for revenge on the world
Plotting to turn all mankind into creatures obscene
You shall be next to be transformed into one of them
...Pray for your death!

...

You will obey the code of the freaks
You'll help their cause till the world is one
You love the freaks - you are a freak
Long Live The Freaks!


http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/rigormortis/freaks.html#1
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: crow on September 08, 2013, 04:17:15 PM
Actually, and ironically, the world is all one.
And it goes far beyond the world.
But leftists are unable to understand how this is so, even though they claim it as their own idea.
They can not bear anything to be what anything is, without their screwing with it to make it so.

I've often observed that there is a lot of truth in leftist slogans.
But leftists don't understand those truths, and never will.



Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: hell on September 08, 2013, 07:17:10 PM
Death and destruction rule on this planet
you know life is valid for a limited time
You live with the idea to die
there's no fucking chance for mercy

Survive to die
Survive to die
Survive to die

You take advantage of every moment
cause death hits without exception
There is no challenge? cause we always loose
Why don't you stop living??

Survive to die
Survive to die
Survive to die

No prospect of reprieve
when your time is over
Your destiny follows you like your shadow
Future plans and projects, just a waste of time
Our solution is to live day by day
Hazard seems to be more fair this way.

Survive to die
Survive to die
Survive to die
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: crow on September 08, 2013, 08:07:16 PM
Future plans and projects, just a waste of time
Our solution is to live day by day


You realize, I hope, that this is a load of bull.
It is the creating of things, over time, that fleshes out life, and the living of it.
Depression, even to the point of suicide, is the alternative.

Living 'day by day' is fine, if you understand what that means. But too many don't.
Living with neither hope, nor desire, is to be commended.
While ignoring any consequences is not.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 09, 2013, 05:43:36 AM
Whether someone chooses hedonism (live "day to day", consequences be damned) or some other stance (traditionalism) after achieving acceptance of nihilism, we should be aware of the implications in criticizing their choice.

Achieving acceptance of nihilism means to recognize the lack of intrinsic value in all things. This has to be accepted on the most universal level and you can get there by focusing on the mighty fact that nothing is eternal, not even the universe.

The choices that someone makes after they recognize this crucial mechanic of the universe will be altered from what they might have chosen before they approached this fact.

The good news is, they can set up their own value system and still have values and goals. There is no need too wallow in nihilism after you've approached it once. It makes a person miserable to do this most of the time.

But, it is strange for someone else who has apprehended the meaning of nihilism to criticize any of their choices after that because both persons must recognize that values are arbitrary. In this case, insisting on values inherent in basic reality is a little bit solipsistic.

Crow will diagree with me by saying values are only applied through the ego"s interaction with external phenomena (and I use that term to describe ego-experience rather than pure sensing of reality) but I will (fruitlessly) insist that he still places value on his life and home and so from a purely universal standpoinmt that does not involve organisms and survival, the value of his life and home are arbitrary (although not to us, of course).
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: crow on September 09, 2013, 08:24:11 AM
When I was young, I couldn't see life as having much value, if any.
Then again, my life at that time was so lacking in quality, that this view was hardly surprising.
But...
I didn't write life off as being worthless. I realized that if there was any meaning or purpose to it, it was going to take some finding. And so I set out, in no particular hurry, to discover its meaning, if indeed there was one.
Some forty years later, I was satisfied that there was plenty of meaning to it, along with plenty of enjoyment. 

That an individual is unable to see something for what it is, does not mean that something is nothing.
It means there is a lack in the individual.
Youth is lack of many things, but most of all, it is a lack of experience.
To compare something to something else, there must be a something else to compare to.
Experience provides comparisons.

If your life is shit, you might ask yourself: "compared to what?"
Sooner or later you'll discover that there are varying degrees of shit, and possibly that what you thought, today, was shit, was the richest of compost, suitable for growing mighty trees from.

I have little patience, or respect, for those who deem life as worthless, and void of value.
Because I know better. It is whatever you allow it to be, contingent upon your ability to recognize how little you know of anything, until you do.


Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 09, 2013, 02:31:40 PM
I won't argue the existence if value. It is like arguing the existence of a god.

I do insist that value is arbitrarily applied and not innate. Planets and stars do not determine value. Things just occur and that's the end of it.

When the Serpent in the Garden of Eden told Eve that, if she ate the fruit from the Tree of Life, "Ye shall be as gods," he was talking about the ability to arbitrarily apply value and cast judgment on the worthiness of things. Through that power humans have shaped their world, and may even shape more.

But where is value without the human mind to apply it? It is not immanent.

Still, I recognize the pointlesness of my point; how dare I, a human, argue for the sake of all non-humanity?
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: Vigilance on September 09, 2013, 02:43:53 PM
The human is just one of many vessels by which life experiences itself. The fact that there is any impetus to find value at all is evidence enough that value is an innate property. Value is recognized by observing hierarchies. That which is closest to its own essence is the most beautiful instance.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 09, 2013, 02:56:56 PM
For arbitrary reasons, I think you are incorrect. Humans have a drive to find love; they achieve something similar by having sex and spending time with someone, but love never appears. Value is the same sort of thing. It is a completely cognitive construct that, at best, allows to translate the weird causal properties of our universe.

If the universe were devoid of any object except for one star, would there be light in the universe? Yes, but it would be unobservable; there would be no object to reflect the light and no photoreceptors to interpret the light but the photons would be cruising along nevertheless. That is not the same kind of thing as value. Value is intrinsically related to a biological organism's instinct to survive. Categorization is a most useful tool when trying to survive. If survival were unnecessary, value would be unnecessary as well.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: crow on September 09, 2013, 03:00:01 PM
It must be inconvenient for you, being a human.
Then again, it's probably inconvenient for most of us.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 09, 2013, 03:06:24 PM
Being in a human body is inconvenient. I'm not a human. I'm a reaction.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: Vigilance on September 09, 2013, 03:14:48 PM
Why are cognitive constructs unreal? Love is something which is actually experienced. Conversely, equality is imagined, yet never experienced, actually, thus can be concluded as decisively unreal. If value is intrinsic to the survival of an organism, then it is experienced and it is real.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 09, 2013, 03:25:39 PM
I never said cognitive contructs (or any other thing) were unreal. I never even used the word or implied a distinction between real and unreal in any post. As a matter of fact, I said that I will not argue the existence of value a couuple posts back.

I said that value, being a cognitive construct and like all other cognitive constructs, does not exist independently of brain function. If there are no brains, there is no value. Therefore value is not intrinsic in relation to anything but our own human brains. Yes we experience it, like we experience hunger; if we did not have stomachs, though, where would we experience hunger?
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: Vigilance on September 09, 2013, 03:58:14 PM
I interpreted the assertion that value does not exist outside of the brain of biological organism as meaning value is unreal. My mistake.

My argument was essentially that value is an observed property which is not like love in that it is not something felt. One is able to feel a certain way towards something deemed valuable, but that is distinctly different than observing quality.

In keeping with your analogy, I understand value to be like a stomach. If it did not exist innately, then we would not be able to observe and experience it. A mental construct is just a totem; but totems do occasionally represent the real and the tangible. It takes intelligence to recognize anything, so of course, the only things to ascribe value to other things will be the things with intelligence. Something stellar bodies do not posses. In so far as we know.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: crow on September 09, 2013, 04:35:02 PM
It is not a monopoly held by the human brain to value the valuable.
Hummingbirds value nectar. Bears value berries. Crows value the dead. Mountain goats value solitude. All of them value life. Thus life appears to be valuable to anything has has it.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: 03-04 on September 10, 2013, 03:32:15 AM
Value is right here. Take it or leave it - it remains, whether one percieves it or not.

One who percieves reality as something valuable and sacred will inevitably become valuable himself. For in our perception, our intentions are made clear. Do we want values or do we not?

Some see value as originating in wanting reality to be such and such. But reality doesn't want to be anything other than it is.

Others see value as being rooted in the awareness of that which is already here.

The first perception is inexperience: Reality and perception are mistaken for one another. The latter is maturity: Perception is perception and reality is reality.

True value isn't a product of how we percieve it. Perception is just a means toward an end.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 10, 2013, 07:08:39 AM
Alright. I've thought about these last three replies and decided to take a look at my argument in a broader perspective.

I realized that it is very difficult for me to say whether or not *anything* is innate or intrinsic to the universe. Not even time and gravity are necessarily intrinsic; I can imagine a universe of mass but no space, in which case everything would exist (technically) but time would not be proceeding. As well, in a universe in which all mass and energy is distributed perfectly, gravity would be uniform and practically unnoticable.

I thought I was taking my argument to the logical extreme (what an amusing term!) before but now I see the pointlesness of arguing whether something (even a purely psychological concept) is immanent.

Turns out, every *thing* in the universe is contingent on some other *thing*. If you remove thing one, thing two goes poof. So whether or not we removed brains from the universe, value is going to exist as a measurement if nothing else in a possibility space, which seems far out but is the only way I can really synthesize these arguments. Even if value would disappear if there were no brains to apply it, we don't have to worry about that because we all have brains (forgive me if I make broad assumptions).

I guess, then, it is not possible to prove an argument if the proof relies on positing a universe with some objects in non-existence (without math, anyway).
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 10, 2013, 07:20:42 AM
Having conceded my old argument, I introduce a new question.

Is nihilism just a state of delusion?

Does a nihilist percieve (falsely) a total lack of value even though the value is "there" to be observed if the nihilist wanted to observe it?

Or does a nihilist percieve a difference between 'natural' (immanent) value and 'egotistic' (transient) value?
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: 03-04 on September 10, 2013, 09:45:45 AM
I would say that nihilism - as understood and presented by the old ANUS mothership - is a way of seeing through transient, or egotistical 'values'. These are nothing - so the nihilist empties himself of them (they were nothing to begin with).

In the process he'll realize that there is something more: That experience itself is valuable, and yet lies beyond the 'safe' moral duality of good and bad, that most would se as the foundation of what is 'normally' perceived as value.

Essentially it's a way of sorting the real from the fake. To ask yourself the question: 'What does it really mean to believe in nothing?' is to initiate a process of cleansing.

To experience reality fully, travelling through some delusion is probably necessary. 'You don not know what is enough unless you know what is too much'.

You seem well on your way :)
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 10, 2013, 11:02:53 AM
Evidently we've run into a semantic scramble. "Value" as a notion of capacity is not what we're talking about. I suggest another word since we say that money and cars have value. We need a word that describes unquantifiable relevance, because that's what you are talking about when you refer to intrinsic value.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: crow on September 10, 2013, 11:13:41 AM
What you're talking about seems to be value as perceived by you.
What happens to that value when you remove yourself?
Does that remove the value, too?
03-04 refers to value as the quality certain things possess, with or without a identity to judge it.




Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 10, 2013, 11:26:26 AM
Yes, you are getting half of what I'm trying to say. My values will differ from another's values. This always happens; take it to the extreme; some humans do not value shelter, food, companionship, or even their own lives. Values as we percieve them are constantly being subverted, recalculated, and reintegrated. I think that trees and creeks are valuable because I detect a quality in their form and function, but another person may see value in the trees because of their potential quality of lumber.

Heirarchies do not denote value. Value tells us that one thing matters more than another thing; it is more important, for some reason or another. There is always reasoning behind it.

There are heirarchies in the universe like size; from particles to stars, we can place physical entities in a heirarchy of space and mass, but that says nothing about their value or quality. No particle is more or less important than a star. They are all here necessarily.

These are heirarchies that exist without reason. The heirarchies of value that we establish as humans say things like paper money has value, and is more important than paper that is not money. But this heirarchy of value relates only to utility. The rest of the universe seems little concerned about utility because it doesn't need to accomplish goals. That is a distinctly human thing.

This is actually a really complicated matter of ontology so I'm pulling arguments out of my ass but I think you get what I'm trying to say.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: 03-04 on September 10, 2013, 12:52:09 PM
When the experience of living becomes beautiful, sacred and whole in and of itself, isn't this valueable? Yet there is no reason for such a state, since the state is everywhere and nowhere. There is nothing to cause it, and nothing to prevent it.

Of such a state only one thing can be known: It wasn't always like this, but now it is. It is impossible to point to some specific thing, and say: That's what makes me value this.

I know this may reek of banality, but it's all about living a meaningful and fulfilling life. That's the only thing that matters, ie. the only thing of true value. But to achieve such a life, you have to forget your assumptions about what such a life may be like. Only very few people can do this, though many will try to convince you that they can.

Such a state is what crow is communicating. It's no 'idea'. It's words directly from the wellspring.

Untangling myself
I dipped my toes -
and 'I' flew away
to the world of the crows.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: crow on September 10, 2013, 01:04:20 PM
Wow. Great stuff :)
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: Vigilance on September 10, 2013, 01:19:15 PM
Things which are of value are the most radiant. It's easy to find them in relation to other things. Since all things are defined by their differences, hierarchies are the perfect identifiers of quality.

Everything exists for a reason. What that reason is, is less important than the fact that it exists for a reason.

A king is more valuable(possessing of more worth) than his subjects because the faculties he must possess(quality) are rare in relation to his subjects. Society in relation to itself must place value on king and subject out of principle as it could not function without both fulfilling their respective tasks. The value of a king is determined in relation to those that came before him, the outcome of his leadership, and the fiber of his character. The subject is the same yet his value is determined not only in relation to other subjects, but to amount of kingliness he exudes.

From a religious perspective, the value of a king is also determined by the amount of Godliness he exudes. All things of value aim towards the higher and God is that at which all things aim.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: death metal black metal on September 11, 2013, 08:59:30 PM
Essentially it's a way of sorting the real from the fake. To ask yourself the question: 'What does it really mean to believe in nothing?' is to initiate a process of cleansing.

I agree with this, and think it's more than cleansing, it's "abandonment."
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 12, 2013, 07:06:35 AM
Still, we are all using the same word for two different things.

Someone should have the balls to say outright that nihilism is a delusional perspective because values are indeed intrinsic.

Any takers? Nobody? No, not I.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: scourge on September 12, 2013, 07:47:03 AM
Nihilism is a way out of our acquired delusions. It's like a screen allowing garbage filtration or an electronic filter reducing noise. Treasure or gain (value), if any, resulting from the filtration/rejection is a different matter.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: IBTINL on September 12, 2013, 10:18:48 AM
One big application of this nihilism is the recognition of the ceaseless, inexorable threat of spiritual deformity.  Instead of jerking away from it (like over-correcting a car causing it to flip,) nihilism suppresses desire and allows one to feel dispassionately his submergence in corruption.  Then an effortless, gradual process of healing begins.

Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: 03-04 on September 12, 2013, 02:29:13 PM
Essentially it's a way of sorting the real from the fake. To ask yourself the question: 'What does it really mean to believe in nothing?' is to initiate a process of cleansing.

I agree with this, and think it's more than cleansing, it's "abandonment."
You are right. But in a certain sense, isn't this abandonment also a return?
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: trystero on September 12, 2013, 05:06:24 PM
It is, yes. I have always considered the Nihilism espoused here a process, not a goal. Let go of meaning to discover meaning. You can only filter when you are not immersed, when you have a meta-view.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 13, 2013, 05:14:25 AM
That's all very insightful but you are only talking of the practical application of nihilism and using your own definiton of the word.

That's usually not allowed.

A nihilist rejects the concept of intrinsic, inerent, or immanent value.

None of you are really nihilists. You are like the gay Christian; everything in the Bible is brilliant and uplifting except for that part in which God says that it is detestable for men to have sexual relations. So long as you ignore that little detal, your identity is sound. (Yes, I have argued with this person before and had to give up because, like most of you, they were inserting their own sub-definitions in order to fit the concept more squarely onto themselves.)

Perhaps you (some of you) have achieved a state of nihilism at some time or another, but were just unable to or uninterested in maintaining that state, because you are right back to where you started, only with different values in mind.

That's not nihilism. I know it sounds tough and dangerous, but you should choose another word that actually describes what  you do.

(The use of "you" in this case refers to the forum users broadly but if you feel you are an exception, then you probably are.)
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: Vigilance on September 13, 2013, 08:51:34 AM
Stoicism probably applies more to the folk here than "active" Nihilism. I prefer the term stoic for myself if I must choose

Human beings can only control  their actions and their assessments; they cannot directly know abolute truth. The only thing that matters in life is recognising the good and acting in accordance with it. All in all, a radical affirmation of what reality actually is, is the goal. That in and of itself requires all the same work as active Nihilism without the angst ridden connotations
 and denial of objective good.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 13, 2013, 11:12:53 AM
See, this guy gets it! Most of the way, at least.

Beware the true functional nihilist. Do not confuse him for a sociopath, because a sociopath is more predictable; their goals are their own. Do not confuse him for an autistic beta male enmired in bitterness and revenge fantasies. The functional nihilist is not crippled by angst or striving for equilibrium; he is truly the purest conduit of chaotic manifestations.

Having read up on ANUSian theory does not make you an expert on nihilism and it especially does not allow you the authority to redefine nihilism as you see fit. Expand upon it all you want but your post-stoicism is a far cry from what was envisioned when the concept of the "over-man" was established. Evil and lawlesness, hatred, insanity, slavery, and absurd cruelty are (an intrinisc) part of the path of nihilism and if you deny any of the uncomfortable parts, you are neither a nihilist nor do you have a solid understanding of what nihilism entails.

Of course, were you all actual nihilists, you would not be so easy to talk to, so I appreciate that.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: Vigilance on September 13, 2013, 11:27:18 AM
I think the overman is misunderstood: it is describing something simple: A man who is a full expression of his values.

Which is the highest state any human could strive for.

Other interpretations are useless to humanity.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: crow on September 13, 2013, 11:56:33 AM
I have to wonder: is a Nihilist something you really want to be?
I mean, it is a label, after all.
Might it not be a better idea to discover exactly what you are, and simply be that, compromising as little as possible, or not at all?

For a long time I thought of myself as a taoist, because that seemed the closest description of what I was.
But I had, at some point, to admit I was really not like anything else, and was, in fact, whatever I was.

Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: trystero on September 13, 2013, 11:59:22 AM
That's all very insightful but you are only talking of the practical application of nihilism and using your own definiton of the word.

Not a problem for me at least, I am not a nihilist by any definition, but I cannot speak for others.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 13, 2013, 01:29:27 PM
Pure nihilism is more like a singularity (or a *limit*) that can be approached but never reached.

As for why a human would want to become a nihilist: I see no reason for it. To embrace nihilism is to become something other than human. If you like being a human, you can orbit the singularity but you cannot begin to approach it or you will lose what you like.

At once you could become superhuman (in that your capacity for enacting change is increased because you make no distinction between change caused by destruction and changed caused by creation, whereas if you only enact change through creation your capacity is limited) and subhuman (because you would not experience humanity as a company, only as things, utilities, objects).

My main argument is that ANUSian nihilism is like "nihilism lite", or Christianity for homos.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: Wild on September 13, 2013, 02:38:59 PM
Quote
Evil and lawlesness, hatred, insanity, slavery, and absurd cruelty are (an intrinisc) part of the path of nihilism and if you deny any of the uncomfortable parts, you are neither a nihilist nor do you have a solid understanding of what nihilism entails.

How does ascribing moralistic judgments to a nihilist's actions make sense?

http://www.anus.com/zine/philosophy/index_society.html
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 13, 2013, 04:38:41 PM
Quote
Evil and lawlesness, hatred, insanity, slavery, and absurd cruelty are (an intrinisc) part of the path of nihilism and if you deny any of the uncomfortable parts, you are neither a nihilist nor do you have a solid understanding of what nihilism entails.

How does ascribing moralistic judgments to a nihilist's actions make sense?

http://www.anus.com/zine/philosophy/index_society.html

There are two ways to explain it, and I'll use both.

1. We are speaking of nihilism from an outside perspective, and we make judgments on values and morals. To us, a nihilist will do things that we find morally objectionable, even if they do not comprehend that judgment.

2. Morals do not allow for in-between spaces. Good and evil are binary categories, and just because someone (a nihilist, say) rejects this binary interpretation, he is not absolved from judgment by non-nihilists. We are familiar with heterosexuals and homosexuals, but less familiar is the asexual. We do not categorize them as one or the other because they are not physiologically confined to the hetero/homo binary categories, so we expect that they will not take part in hetero/homo functions. "Dropping out" of the good/evil binary categories does not allow you this freedom; people will still expect you to operate within judgment parameters.

So, we can say that because a nihilist is not good, he must be evil, because as darkness is absence of light, evil is absence of good, and isn't necessarily (or rarely ever, actually) the choice of the individual for the sake of committing evil.

The nihilist won't see it like that, but we can ignore their perceptions for now.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: crow on September 13, 2013, 04:57:29 PM
I haven't lived in the theoretical continuum for so long, that when I see posts like that, I shake my head and smile.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 13, 2013, 06:13:14 PM
Do you think that nihilism can only be applied theoretically? You have too much experience to think that. What do you mean to tell me then?
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: crow on September 13, 2013, 06:17:09 PM
I mean to tell you that your comment amused me.
Hard to explain it, really. I either know something, or don't bother with it at all. I simply don't deal in theory.
The last line is what did it:
"The nihilist won't see it like that, but we can ignore their perceptions for now".
Whether you see it, or not, that is really funny.
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: dead last on September 13, 2013, 08:27:43 PM
There are people in the world who get my humor. I can count them on both hands. You've earned a finger.

And my mom told me I could be a comedian!
Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: Wild on September 13, 2013, 08:51:27 PM
Quote
We are speaking of nihilism from an outside perspective

Who's "we"?

Quote
and we make judgments on values and morals. To us, a nihilist will do things that we find morally objectionable, even if they do not comprehend that judgment.

I don't make judgments on morals. In fact I find morality to be meaningless because it assumes a type of "goodness" or "evilness" present within actions.

Values can be judged and I see no reason why a nihilist would not do so. He simply realizes that they are based on preference.

I don't think Marxists and humanists are "evil". I simply acknowledge that their preferences are in opposition to mine and the type of civilization I want to inhabit.

Quote
So, we can say that because a nihilist is not good, he must be evil, because as darkness is absence of light, evil is absence of good, and isn't necessarily (or rarely ever, actually) the choice of the individual for the sake of committing evil.

You could say he's beyond good and evil.

Title: Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
Post by: 03-04 on September 15, 2013, 02:25:22 PM
Nihilism is about seeing for yourself what it's all about - if all can even said to be about something.

Therefore, it makes little sense to say what a true nihilist would or wouldn't do, say, think or believe.

He'll do, say, think or believe anything, if that what it's about - and he'll discard it if it isn't.