100% Metal Forum (Death Metal and Black Metal)

Metal => Interzone => Topic started by: K on September 26, 2007, 09:58:10 AM

Title: National Socialist Black Metal (N5BM)
Post by: K on September 26, 2007, 09:58:10 AM
I have only heard about national socialist, or nazi, blackmetal, but the ideology, nor any specific bands were ever mentioned. I know that it is mostly irrelevant, if not all, but I am curious none the less. Is it based on political structure, racism, or just boredom like nazi punk?

Also, if some one could actually give me a spicific example; I've heard that peste noire was, but also arguments to the contrary, as well with horned almighty(if you don't know them, don't bother checking them out).
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: Immolation on September 26, 2007, 10:37:23 AM
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Is it based on political structure, racism, or just boredom like nazi punk?



Mainly, it's based on cluelessness.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: Necrolust on September 26, 2007, 10:47:27 AM
I can't speak for all the NS bands, but I'm quite sure your reasons, and combinations thereof, represent the motives of surely every NS band out there.

There are Gravelands and there are Grinded Nigs: the difference is in the subtlety of their conveyance of NS themes. Over-the-top lyrics typically represent PROPAGANDA, which is by no means art. Bands like Astrofaes and Fullmoon keep their lyrics to folklore and ancestral pride, and any racism is wrapped in metaphor.

AFAIK, Peste Noire have nothing to do with NSBM.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on September 26, 2007, 11:05:05 AM
Rob Darken of Graveland called NS a failed ideology, so any association of their works with NSism is purely down to their own (probably incorrect) interpretation.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: kontinual on September 26, 2007, 01:30:27 PM
This is a pretty tired topic.

See this (http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/YaBB.cgi?board=metal_talk;action=display;num=1118721700) classic thread so this one can go away.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: born for banning on September 26, 2007, 03:26:17 PM
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Is it based on political structure, racism, or just boredom like nazi punk?


Nazi punk bands (http://www.resistance.com/) seem very committed. Problem was, like all punk music, they were very boring.

Only about 2-5% of metal bands are worth listening to. No rock music is, no techno is, very little industrial is, and no newer country is.

What does this tell you? Moronic forms of music produce moronic results. Pick something better, like classical, and learn your culture instead of preaching others to keep it up - that's what I'd tell the Nazi bands.

Some Nazis make brilliant music. Darkthrone, Burzum, Graveland, Thor's Hammer, Unleashed, Morbid Angel, Motorhead, Immortal, Emperor, Infester, Therion and others have all expressed nationalist, national socialist, traditionalist, fascist or occult volkisch sentiments. They are different than the imitators who make boring, pointless, angry music.

Interestingly, the failure rate for NS-BM is probably less than that of black metal as a whole, but I still wouldn't run out and get any of it. Legion of Doom was pretty good too.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: o.d.i.r. on September 26, 2007, 04:14:23 PM
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Some Nazis make brilliant music. Darkthrone, Burzum, Graveland, Thor's Hammer, Unleashed, Morbid Angel, Motorhead, Immortal, Emperor, Infester, Therion and others have all expressed nationalist, national socialist, traditionalist, fascist or occult volkisch sentiments. They are different than the imitators who make boring, pointless, angry music.


I'm curious where you get some of these names from. Obviously a number of them are no brainers, but Motörhead? Come on now.

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We ain't got time for the White nation anymore, 'cause everybody is mixed up already. It's mixed up Jewish anyway. Three quarters of America has some Jew in it, and about half of America has some red Indian in it. In the SS you had to trace your ancestry back to 1720. You can't do that now in America. That's how it should be. We should all mix up. We have to; that's the only way we are going to be global. Racism is the most evil thing in the world. It fucks people up. I won't be a part of it.

http://www.motorhead.ru/int9wilma.htm
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: born for banning on September 26, 2007, 05:22:19 PM
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Obviously a number of them are no brainers, but Motörhead? Come on now.


Please present proof that they are not pro-NS, considering the band has worn Nazi paraphrenalia for years, endorsed warfare and fascist-style actions in their lyrics, and worn Nazi uniforms. In your proof, please keep in mind the following:

1. You cannot admit liking a taboo and still keep your career.

2. You will have to comprehensively scan every interview, public appearance, and private conversation archived.

3. National Socialism is more than racism.

Good luck. If you fail, I'll ask the mods to ban you for using a proofless response and the hipster-trademarked phrase, "Come on now." We don't need people who behave like losers here.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: nAMELESShERETIC on September 26, 2007, 05:24:31 PM
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I'm curious where you get some of these names from. Obviously a number of them are no brainers, but Motörhead? Come on now.

http://www.motorhead.ru/int9wilma.htm


i see your point, but i did at one time have a motorhead shirt with a swastika hidden within the screaming skull logo. so i think there's things like that which can easily cause confusion.

on top of that, born for banning delivers a good point.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: shadowmystic on September 26, 2007, 07:02:57 PM
Gontyna Kry are fairly good, I like Nokturnal Mortum as well, and they seem to have a surprisingly warm reception here as far as I know.  For the most part NS bands suck, but it's the same as with all genres/sub-genres, 90+% of the bands suck, and a few are good.  The % varies slightly from genre to genre but the principle remains fairly consistent.  Judge on musical quality, not genre.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: o.d.i.r. on September 26, 2007, 08:46:53 PM
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Please present proof that they are not pro-NS, considering the band has worn Nazi paraphrenalia for years, endorsed warfare and fascist-style actions in their lyrics, and worn Nazi uniforms.


It is a well known fact that Lemmy Kilmister is an avid collector of Nazi memorabilia, and fascinated by WWII. He doesn't make a secret out of this. The performances, coupled with his obsession for Nazi Germany can easily be attributed to cheap shock value and plain showbusiness - Not entirely unlike Marilyn Manson, who has been known to employ the same themes in concerts (as much as I hate to make that comparison.)

I am well aware what National Socialism is about, and I will admit the reasons he gives for his interest in this subject can be somewhat vague and suspicious, however to claim someone who makes statements such as in that interview has NS tendencies to the point where you happily mention them alongside Graveland and Burzum is rather absurd, and 'It would be a bad career move for him to openly come out about it' is not a sufficient reason to ignore them.

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Good luck. If you fail, I'll ask the mods to ban you for using a proofless response and the hipster-trademarked phrase, "Come on now." We don't need people who behave like losers here.


I am not here to do the research for you. I merely called you out on your rather bold claim that Motorhead somehow expresses NS sentiments, which apparently, is based on nothing but Kilmister's fascination for the Nazi Germany era and his tendency to indulge himself in Nazi memorabilia - which in turn can shine through in their performances - and some lyrics you are yet to present which I doubt are conclusive to this argument.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: K on September 27, 2007, 01:11:50 AM
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This is a pretty tired topic.

See this (http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/YaBB.cgi?board=metal_talk;action=display;num=1118721700) classic thread so this one can go away.

I did look in past threads to try and find something,  but I was unaware that nsbm meant national socialist blackmetal.  I apologize.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: Necrolust on September 27, 2007, 01:43:34 AM
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I did look in past threads to try and find something,  but I was unaware that nsbm meant national socialist blackmetal.  I apologize.


:o :o

How long have you been listening to BM now?  :P
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: Fallibilis on September 28, 2007, 02:51:39 AM
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There are Gravelands and there are Grinded Nigs: the difference is in the subtlety of their conveyance of NS themes. Over-the-top lyrics typically represent PROPAGANDA, which is by no means art. Bands like Astrofaes and Fullmoon keep their lyrics to folklore and ancestral pride, and any racism is wrapped in metaphor.

Indeed. I've noticed many NS bands from Russia do in fact concentrate on their pagan roots, ancestral pride, and (a form of) nationalism and do little on racism. Bands like Kroda, Walknut, Temnozor, and Branikald fit this description. Forest probably does as well, but  I'm not too sure where they're going with their Aryan themes.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: Agni on September 28, 2007, 05:52:42 AM
Only ones I know (not counting BUrzum or Graveland) are the ones that make Burzum tribute albums. It seems that doing a Burzum cover is like baptism to these bands.  
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: on September 28, 2007, 06:56:20 AM
The motorhead/nazi thing comes as a second generation inheritance from biker gangs who often use nazi dress-up to create an identity. The typical  motorhead lyric is bar fights, tarts, alcohol and amphetamines - which does not make for pure blood, I can tell you!
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: Divus_de_Mortuus on September 28, 2007, 06:59:52 PM
Eight months ago, Summoning would have been mentioned in this conversation.

Motorhead are not Nazis. Shut the fuck up with that assbabble right the fuck now.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: Stranger on September 28, 2007, 07:16:58 PM
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Eight months ago, Summoning would have been mentioned in this conversation.

Motorhead are not Nazis. Shut the fuck up with that assbabble right the fuck now.


That thread regarding Summoning was a disaster. I understood where Protector was coming from, and I don't know why he received the amount of abuse he did. Whether you agreed with his reasonings or not, Summoning is HIS and Silenius's project, so if others are using his art for personal politics, I'd be just as upset as he was.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: Necrolust on September 29, 2007, 10:03:07 AM
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Eight months ago, Summoning would have been mentioned in this conversation.


Only by the morons who believe anything they see on Jewtube.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: Divus_de_Mortuus on September 29, 2007, 05:53:44 PM
Are you serious? Summoning was hailed as the second coming of Burzum uniformly across this forum and much of the metal underground.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: buckets_of_rain on September 30, 2007, 12:56:02 PM
I also thought it was weird that once the whole Summoning thing happened, suddenly the Lord Wind worship stopped too.

How odd.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: Humanicide on September 30, 2007, 06:09:14 PM
NS ideology is one which relegates believers into becoming dumber by the second.

that being said, some bands which hold those views are some that i enjoy, but their views fall on deaf ears to me.
Title: Re: National Socialist Black Metal (N5BM)
Post by: buckets_of_rain on October 01, 2007, 08:36:27 PM
In all honesty, I think anyone who calls Burzum National Socialist Black Metal is just showing ignorance.  Burzum's lyrics have very little to do with national socialism if anything at all.  The music of Burzum is on a much higher plain than some political view.
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: born for banning on October 03, 2007, 02:27:36 PM
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Summoning was hailed as the second coming of Burzum uniformly across this forum and much of the metal underground.


Summoning is fucking cool. Not all of it, because they have some real dead zone albums like The Once and Future King or whatever that Enya-fest they recorded recently was, but even Oath Bound and Lost Tales are great.

Do they know shit about politics? Probably not. But musicians as a rule don't. Would you elect Kirk Hammet president?*


* probably a bad time to ask this
Title: Re: NS blackmetal??
Post by: Necrolust on October 04, 2007, 08:10:35 AM
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Summoning is fucking cool. Not all of it, because they have some real dead zone albums like The Once and Future King or whatever that Enya-fest they recorded recently was, but even Oath Bound and Lost Tales are great.

Do they know shit about politics? Probably not. But musicians as a rule don't. Would you elect Kirk Hammet president?*


* probably a bad time to ask this


Are you referring to Let Mortal Heroes Sing Your Fame? Calling that subpar, but praising their sole cash grab, Lost Tales is quite absurd.
Title: Re: National Socialist Black Metal (N5BM)
Post by: rahowhatever on October 10, 2007, 09:06:29 AM
I think a lot of nsbm bands are simply reactionaries pitching a gimmick. But some just preempt the branding, if you deal with racial, environmental, cultural and nationalist themes you'll be branded a nazi so you might as well just go with it. Unfortunately most nsbm bands suck and the only reason they get any attention is because of their nazi stance (Graveland, Thorrs Hammer, etc.) as opposed to a lot of good bands in other genres (neofolk, industrial, etc.) who are actually good and are held back by their perceived nazi sympathies (Blood Axis, Allerseelen, etc.). Most nsbm bands don’t actually champion the political platform of the actual National Socialist movement and are for the most part in direct contradiction on most things. It is an unfortunate label that should be abandoned by any band that does want to achieve anything positive. You can promote PanEuopean Nationalism and Aryan religion without falling into the trap of Nazism, which was a perversion of these themes anyway. But at the same time I can see how and some bands would play with this taboo to avoid being commodified and exploited. And then again, metal is all about taboos. But you can do this like Slayer has by exploring these themes without endorsing them.

But if you really want to check some of these bands out, the only one that I have ever come across that was any good was an Australian act called Spear Of Longinus. You can find them on Youtube and some file sharing sites.
Title: Re: National Socialist Black Metal (N5BM)
Post by: born for banning on October 10, 2007, 05:45:56 PM
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I think a lot of nsbm bands are simply reactionaries pitching a gimmick. But some just preempt the branding, if you deal with racial, environmental, cultural and nationalist themes you'll be branded a nazi so you might as well just go with it.


I see what you're saying. I think it's true of almost all N5BM, although there are some brave exceptions. They're trying to hide behind the symbol instead of showing or explaining why they believe what they do, which isn't limited to NS (black metal includes nationalism, but has a lot more as well, like romanticism and eco-fascism). They should be braver, but they're not, so their music is one note and directionless.