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Metal => Interzone => Topic started by: AttheGates1996 on October 14, 2007, 07:37:11 PM

Title: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: AttheGates1996 on October 14, 2007, 07:37:11 PM
That's right... I went there... obviously so many people hate Metallica but yet so many people appreciate them... so this thread has potential to be interesting...

Honestly, I have a good feeling about their upcoming album… perhaps because they are no longer griping at each other like little pussies or maybe since they’ve gotten rid of producer Bob Rock, not that I hate the guy. I think this album is going to completely surprise everyone. I’ve always had a thing for Metallica, I heard them constantly as I was growing up and metal or rock I still think they write very well, which is always a plus.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: oogaa on October 14, 2007, 08:39:12 PM
I was actually listening to Metallica after a long long time yesterday. I'd almost  forgotten about  how groundbreaking and original  the band was (in the 80's atleast) with all the media whores hyping them to no ends.

But, I seriously don't have any hope whatsoever for this band to deliver anything even remotely interesting anymore. Even if they do try to go back to their roots, they'll just end up making an extremely Generic album. They're like those products well past their expiry date, useless.  
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: Hyvolgen on October 15, 2007, 03:37:11 AM
Cover of new Metallica song:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2pS5rODQ2ao

Although they said it wouldn't be on the new album. I wouldn't expect anything better than it though.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 15, 2007, 07:02:50 AM
I'm expecting whatever they produce from now on to sound like Trivium, but I'm hoping for a nice surprise.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: Prospero on October 15, 2007, 10:16:54 AM
I'm expecting good headbanging material, but nothing outstanding. Mainly because Rick Rubin is producing it.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: buckets_of_rain on October 15, 2007, 10:58:27 AM
This is pathetic.  Does anyone here actually believe that Metallica is going to rise up from commercial Hell and make another trash album?  And what if they did?  Do you possibly believe it would be anything worth listening to?  You can't blame Bob Rock for everything.  He didn't actually write the shitty music, even if he led them in that direction, and he didn't make them do half the idiotic things you see them do.  Rick Rubin can only do so much and from what I've heard so far, it's the same old garbage again.

I think they are done now anyway.  They called their fans thiefs (which I actually don't care about) and now everything they release will be marked.  They've burried themselves.  Now fans of underground metal and fans of impulsive garbage music alike have turned on them.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: AttheGates1996 on October 15, 2007, 12:56:21 PM
Another thrash album? Most likely not, but another well written album, no matter what the genre, I can hope for. Even their rock is somewhat appreciable.

They are “done” because people judge them by who they are as opposed to their music. And here's another interesting fact that people tend to overlook… their “fans” ARE thieves… ever think of that? They were stealing their music and Metallica had every right to sue Napster’s ass, though if I were in a popular band I wouldn’t go to that extreme of actions but still, they had the right to. But like I said earlier, it’s about the music… no one listens to a new album and says “God, these guys are douchebags”… unless you’re narrow-minded…
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: kontinual on October 15, 2007, 01:16:54 PM
Quote
They are “done” because people judge them by who they are as opposed to their music.


You honestly think people with any sense of discernment haven't shut them out for releasing four incredibly stupid rock albums in 15 years?  Seriously?
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: AttheGates1996 on October 15, 2007, 02:15:19 PM
Referring to the last post by buckets_of_rain, it seems as though people, in fact, do judge by whom they are. I understand that people with good judgment might also dislike them because of their rock albums, but not near as many people as the narrow-minded trashy metal head posers who judge them by their genre and not music.

I don’t think anyone with sense of “discernment” would have to “shut them out.” If they simply don’t like the albums based on a good judgment then why shut out the band and not the album. Having no hopes for the next album means you’ve given up faith on the band, not the 4 rock albums one might dislike… that isn’t fair judgment.

Before Kill em’ All a lot of people with “good judgment” disliked them because they were either to metal or to punkish, but that didn’t mean that they couldn’t release perhaps the most influential heavy metal album of all time. Though I do think that it is likely for this album to be what most would consider “good”, my initial position in this thread was hopeful, not convinced.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: kontinual on October 15, 2007, 02:41:16 PM
Quote
I don’t think anyone with sense of “discernment” would have to “shut them out.” If they simply don’t like the albums based on a good judgment then why shut out the band and not the album. Having no hopes for the next album means you’ve given up faith on the band, not the 4 rock albums one might dislike… that isn’t fair judgment.


I think four poor albums in 15 years of songwriting is more than enough to make any reasonable person abandon all but the smallest bit of hope in the entity creating them, which is entirely "fair" judgment (fair in what context)?

Are you on some kind of crusade here?
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: AttheGates1996 on October 15, 2007, 02:57:55 PM
I must admit, I do understand the point in which you’re coming from. I can’t sit here and say that I’m right and people shouldn’t hate Metallica. But what I can do is attempt to explain why people are bias against Metallica.

What I meant by “fair” judgment is that even though their past consists of 4 worse rock albums, no one seems to consider the 4 amazing metal albums. If someone is to judge based upon the past they should take in all considerations, not just the negative. I know that since the last 4 albums were the worse rock albums it suggests that this album will just be the same but they’ve surprised us in a negative way before, they could surprise us again.

And I do not find the writing in the last four albums to be poor. Though I do not think the songs overall are amazing, the specific details within the songs suggest good songwriting. The Unforgiven, Nothing Else Matters, Wherever I Might Roam, Bleeding Me, The Outlaw Torn, and The Unforgiven II all suggest that of a more compositional rock song. Though I know that on the likes of this site those songs are laughed at, but one must remain open-minded and i    do not, in any way whatsoever, associate them with metal.

I’m not on a crusade, I understand that there will always be people who disagree with me. I simply think that my view on the topic is something that most have never seen or considered. None the less, I still remain hopeful. Though I’m sure I will be put down, maybe not horribly.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: Prospero on October 15, 2007, 03:09:33 PM
Quote
their “fans” ARE thieves… ever think of that? They were stealing their music and Metallica had every right to sue Napster’s ass, though if I were in a popular band I wouldn’t go to that extreme of actions but still, they had the right to. But like I said earlier, it’s about the music… no one listens to a new album and says “God, these guys are douchebags”… unless you’re narrow-minded…


I wonder what Zappa (TRUE AUTHENTIC GENUINE MUSICIAN as opposed to Metallica) would have done. I don't think he would have made a video like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoZZDu4YTZg

What do you think of that?

Zappa would have wrote a friggen song out of this stupid story. Most other intelligent musician actually don't give a fuck. I mean, only superstars making the big bucks do care, otherwise it is a way to be known!

I once read about Type O Negative's singer saying he was more than happy about the Napster thing. It frustrated for the big labels while promoting less-known music.

There's more right here:
http://www.anus.com/etc/metallica/
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: AttheGates1996 on October 15, 2007, 03:25:33 PM
First off Drgrowl, you didn’t just give one damn reason, or for that matter an even relevant reason, as to why their next album doesn’t have the potential to be good.

I should just stop there because that is what this thread intended to be about, their music,  and if you want to bash Metallica then go read the gay made up story about a transvestite. Even if it does exemplify what I’ve been debated with kontinual about; the fact that people judge them by who they are and not their music.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: Heydrich on October 15, 2007, 04:00:18 PM
I almost cannot believe I'm reading this here - Chasm indeed. Metallica hasn't been musically relevant since I was in high school(and only somewhat marginally then) and I'm nearly forty fucking years old! Beyond that, they are personally perhaps, the most disgraceful representation of Metal/Hessian individuals this side of Ozzy. After sitting through "Some Kind Of Monster" on the television, I was thoroughly embarrassed for them...and tragically, they were not!!  

It is clear that Metallica blew their creative wad well before the eighties were over. They have NOTHING left to give artistically - just accept that fact.  

 
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: AttheGates1996 on October 15, 2007, 04:12:39 PM
“Metallica hasn't been musically relevant since I was in high school”
Musically relevant to what?

“Beyond that, they are personally perhaps, the most disgraceful representation of Metal/Hessian individuals this side of Ozzy.”
They no longer represent metal, so don’t judge them by standards that they no longer aim for.

“I was thoroughly embarrassed for them”
Once again… that’s right AGAIN… has nothing to do with their music.

“It is clear that Metallica blew their creative wad well before the eighties were over.”
So doing the same thing over and over again is creative? I’ll admit that they’re change isn’t viewed by the general audience as good but trying to re-release master of puppets over and over wouldn’t be creative.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: oogaa on October 15, 2007, 06:34:57 PM
Their next album will not be any good because they don't have any inspiration to produce any good album anymore. Once a great band turns into a 'big band', they simply loose the motivation to move them any further in terms of music. Why do you think most of the great albums that many bands write  are usually in their begining stage of musical career? It's because they are extremely passionate and motivated during that time. Once they get bigger and more famous, they're not struggling as much. I think the struggle factor is extremely influential when it comes to a band being good or bad. The more they're struggling the more th.ey have to prove and the harder they try. Notice how Metallica's music  started to go down the drain as they started being more and more famous. The "one" video would probably be the pivotal point in their career (and Cliff's death also.) But once the band is not struggling, they don't have  much to prove. The passion may still be there but the necessity (that they think to be there) to write an incredible album will no longer exist.  Same is the case with Slayer, Megadeth and such and such bands..Well, atleast the Slayer camp has still some dignity left in themselves...

I'am not saying they're not capable of writing a good album anymore. I'am simply saying there's no inspiration whatsoever to channel their potential into something great.  
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: AttheGates1996 on October 15, 2007, 06:48:40 PM
Perhaps you are right, but do you not think that Metallica has struggled since Load? I understand what you’re saying and I have to admit you’re probably right, but you never know, perhaps the fact that everyone has hated them since Load could be a suitable inspiration to channel their potential.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: oogaa on October 15, 2007, 07:10:09 PM
It could be. Actually I hope it is but I just don't think that it's sufficient enough. I don't even  know if they understand the hatred or empathize with the ex-fans. I try to put myself in that position - Say i'am in a band and am making relatively good music. Suddenly, I decide to try something new and the fans percieve it as an act of selling out and call me names. Would I care about them? I'd say I'd have a more of the  "Fuck you" attitude towards them than anything else. But to say the same is the case with Metallica would be completely presumptuous on my part so I'd rather give them the benefit of doubt on this.

The thing is -  I just don't see Metallica giving their 110% on this album as they would have in the 80's. When they were young, music was all what their life was about and I think it'd be safe to say that that is definitely not the case now. Do I want them to  come out an amazing album? Fuck yes. Do I think they can? No. All I can do here is wait and  hope that I am wrong and I'd say similar is the case with many Metallica or 80's Metallica fans out there.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: shadowmystic on October 15, 2007, 08:34:49 PM
It's stupid to even consider that Metallica might release another good album, I guess I should probably give the new Dimmu a listen seeings as I liked their first two?
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: Heydrich on October 15, 2007, 10:01:24 PM
Quote
Perhaps you are right, but do you not think that Metallica has struggled since Load? I understand what you’re saying and I have to admit you’re probably right, but you never know, perhaps the fact that everyone has hated them since Load could be a suitable inspiration to channel their potential.


Perhaps...but now you are getting closer to solving your own dilemma. (Most) Everyone has "hated" them, because the music they have produced since the 80's is bland, uninspired rock music(who gives a fuck if it is "good" rock music or not - this is a Metal site).
Metallica, chose to veer well off the Metal path, yet have always cynically sneered at those who felt they simply turned their back on what got them where they were in the first place. With all their "yeah, we sold out...sold out every arena in creation, blah, blah" swagger. This while they were writing rock and roll songs about hot-rods or having monsters under one's bed for chrissakes! That is just the type of crap ANUS has railed against from the start.

You can hope all you like that Metallica will miraculously unbosom some neo-thrash materpiece. But you will forgive those of us who
find the idea implausible, if not ludicrous...and have been around this music damned long enough to know why NOT to expect more from them.

Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: shadowmystic on October 15, 2007, 10:43:36 PM
Exactly, name a single band that miraculously started releasing good albums after writing shit for 15 years.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: AttheGates1996 on October 16, 2007, 08:48:02 AM
Iron Maiden, I personally didn't like anything between SSoaSS between A Matter of Life and Death.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: ......... on October 16, 2007, 09:14:03 AM
I think Iron Maiden really reinvented themselves with A Matter of Life and Death. Not many bands can do that after 30 years or so. It was a bold move to play the new album in its entirety on tour too, since they've basically been playing the same classics over and over for the last couple of decades.

As for Metallica, I have no belief whatsoever that their new album will be any good.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: AttheGates1996 on October 16, 2007, 09:40:55 AM
First off, I’d like to say that I know I’m not going to change anyone’s opinions or thoughts, I understand that, but what makes everyone so sure that Metallica couldn’t reinvent themselves? They did just undergo quite a bit of changes… new bassist, no more bitching at each other, obviously no more stress to influence their music, new producer and a completely new atmosphere to write music. They are also taking a lot more time to make sure this album is what they want it to be. Just a thought… it’s possible for them to drastically change their sound.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 16, 2007, 11:00:05 AM
That Lars Ulrich Napster video is insane. Doesn't he realise how rediculously clichéd that is? It's so absurd it's almost a parody.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: Mithrandir on October 16, 2007, 11:28:05 AM
Iron Maiden were always in a different league to Metallica, as far as I'm concerned, so I wouldn't personally compare them. It was never personal drama, no matter what shit was going on in the band, it was always about the music (whether it was good or bad). If their experiments in the 90s failed, then they didn't bitch and moan about not liking their audience (because those of you who were around then will remember that their old fans did not receive the Blaze albums well at all). They simply got rid of the problem (bad vocalist) and saved face. Whether they've reinvented themselves on the new album I can't say (it doesn't sound that new to me) but eitherway they are as close to the mainstream as metal will get while still remaining respectable. And that's because they show their fans a helluva lot more respect than Metallica or any of the other big bands ever did or will. And sure, I'd like Metallica to release another magnum opus, but I know that their efforts are no longer genuine and the new album might come across as contrived. The old spirit will not be there, but we'll have to wait n see about the music.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: oogaa on October 16, 2007, 11:29:04 AM
The only way I can see this album coming off as  a masterpiece is by ripping the Metallica boys out of every penny they've got  and by building a   machine that'd change their age back to 20-21.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: nAMELESShERETIC on October 16, 2007, 03:32:55 PM
first off, there is nothing wrong in being optimistic, and we all want to root for bands that matter(ed) to us, but please take in consideration a couple things.
i too, when younger, was absolutely awe inspired by metallica. when i was 16 i got to meet them and about died. so i know what it's like to admire this group.
but times change and so do people. the fellas that made "Master of Puppets" were 23 year old motivated, fired up, well skilled metal musicians whom had goals that were aimed in a different direction than today. back then they said "FUCK MTV", and "FUCK RADIO", etc.
today we see a group of people that are well into their 40's, who went through a phase in the 90's telling everyone that "we aren't metal anymore", and embraced both MTV and radio airplay. it is not necessarily OUR faults for calling this band into suspect when they obviously pulled away from their roots and questioned their "diehard" fan's motivations.

it's not that i don't want to root for this band anymore, but it is almost impossible for me to expect them to revive something that died long ago. they aren't the same people anymore. they have long been rich many times over, totally alienated from the type of situations that motivated them to write "Ride the Lightning". hell, they may even want to write another album like "Ride...", but their lives are nothing like they were when they were 20 years old, and their motivations in life are nothing like they were back in 1984.

people's lives change, circumstances change, and motivations change, especially in Metallica's case. they used to be poor headbanger's ready to create meaningful music. now they're rich, alienated rock stars who've been influenced by pop radio and MTVicon status for so long that they simply do not have the same spark for creating.

IF i turn out to be wrong i'll be the first to come back here and eat humble pie. i doubt seriously that will happen.
i'm as "open minded" as they come, but what does that even mean really? no one is above criticism, even and especially metallica.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: AttheGates1996 on October 16, 2007, 03:36:33 PM
Hey, if I'm wrong I'll admit it... but theres just some feeling I have... that perhaps they won't recreate what they did in the past, but create something new. Something that is great that no one expected. St. Anger was random, it wasn't great, but no one expected it.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: shadowmystic on October 16, 2007, 10:39:58 PM
Yeah no one expected that Metallica (or anyone for that matter) could have created something that bad.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: buckets_of_rain on October 18, 2007, 02:58:06 PM
Quote
Exactly, name a single band that miraculously started releasing good albums after writing shit for 15 years.



Well some people on this board like the new Celtic Frost.


Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: JaPeL on October 18, 2007, 03:03:40 PM
[off topic] i remember someone saying, that metallica used a part of a Bachs "song", can someone tell me which one Exactly? thanks!
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: AttheGates1996 on October 18, 2007, 04:05:06 PM
Quote
[off topic] i remember someone saying, that metallica used a part of a Bachs "song", can someone tell me which one Exactly? thanks!


you know the bach song? or any of the notes and/or ryhtms?
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: Fallibilis on October 18, 2007, 04:29:26 PM
Quote
Referring to the last post by buckets_of_rain, it seems as though people, in fact, do judge by whom they are. I understand that people with good judgment might also dislike them because of their rock albums, but not near as many people as the narrow-minded trashy metal head posers who judge them by their genre and not music.

I don’t think anyone with sense of “discernment” would have to “shut them out.” If they simply don’t like the albums based on a good judgment then why shut out the band and not the album. Having no hopes for the next album means you’ve given up faith on the band, not the 4 rock albums one might dislike… that isn’t fair judgment.

Before Kill em’ All a lot of people with “good judgment” disliked them because they were either to metal or to punkish, but that didn’t mean that they couldn’t release perhaps the most influential heavy metal album of all time. Though I do think that it is likely for this album to be what most would consider “good”, my initial position in this thread was hopeful, not convinced.

Wrong. For the past 17 years they have been releasing trivial (at best) garbage. It has been of no substance - even the covers album was terrible. Sure, there was maybe a song or two that was interesting, but that was it. Thinking that they are going to release anything worth caring about is not just not pragmatic but it's baseless*, wishful thinking.

As for anyone thinking they're going to release anything related to metal, if they do, it's most likely going to be trite, commercial shit. You know, the music Metallica plays now does in fact suit them. They've all settled down with families (i.e. bought into the system), drive $100k+ cars, and probably own a small island in the Philipines with ten slaves each. Ok, so while that last assumption was me being facetious, you get the picture. Any attempt by Metallica to write something metal would simply be a midlife-crisis venture and would not have much substance to it.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: buckets_of_rain on October 18, 2007, 06:46:09 PM
What's with all this "17 years" talk?  What did they do good 17 years ago?  Give me a break.  
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: kontinual on October 18, 2007, 07:41:39 PM
Quote
What's with all this "17 years" talk?  What did they do good 17 years ago?  Give me a break.  


Everyone is obviously implying it has been that long since they started releasing trash.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: Fallibilis on October 18, 2007, 07:52:25 PM
Quote
What's with all this "17 years" talk?  What did they do good 17 years ago?  Give me a break.  


Everyone is obviously implying it has been that long since they started releasing trash.[/quote]
I was just trying to convey the concept that Metallica's current trend is not something accidental, or momentary if you will. It's something permanent. I just chose 17 years as an arbitrary figure since that's how long ago the Black Album came out, which was simply unacceptable.
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: JaPeL on October 19, 2007, 01:37:47 PM
Quote

you know the bach song? or any of the notes and/or ryhtms?


nop, i just remember someone mention it  :-/
Title: Re: Metallica's Ninth
Post by: AttheGates1996 on October 19, 2007, 06:16:54 PM
Quote
[off topic] i remember someone saying, that metallica used a part of a Bachs "song", can someone tell me which one Exactly? thanks!


I can't find a single thing about it. I think you might be mistaking their Ennio Morricone cover of Ecstasy of Gold.