100% Metal Forum (Death Metal and Black Metal)

Metal => Metal => Topic started by: shadowmystic on October 18, 2007, 06:27:47 PM

Title: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: shadowmystic on October 18, 2007, 06:27:47 PM
Gorgoroth always seem to be pushed aside as either an interesting but mostly irrelavant supplement to the better known bands in the Norwegian scene, or as a band that simply didn't live up to the quality of the area.  The only reason I can possibly think of for this is their relatively late arrival on the scene, and possibly the fact that they were not heavily involved with much of the controversy occuring at the time.  This is a shame because, in my opinion, Gorgoroth not only live up to the quality of that scene, but they surpass virtually everything else released there with the notable exception of Burzum.  

The ability to create flowing epic melody that fits perfectly into a logical narrative places Infernus as one of the greatest songwriters of the modern era, this was demonstrated on Pentagram but was fully realised on Antichrist.  That album is a testament to what black metal can achieve structurally, and is possibly the closest metal ever came to true classical composition, it is only rivalled by Hvis Lyset Tar Oss in emotional and structural complexity.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: kontinual on October 18, 2007, 06:33:03 PM
Quote
but was fully realised on Antichrist. †That album is a testament to what black metal can achieve structurally


I don't think anyone here disputes the above - if the band itself seems underappreciated it is because 1) Antichrist was released a full 2-3 years after most of the important second wave recordings, and 2) the band's relevance, for the most part, ceases with their achievement on that album.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: shadowmystic on October 18, 2007, 06:38:26 PM
They do get more recognition on this site, that is true, I think alot of people overlook them when talking about the genre's classics, and they certainly qualify for that.  Two great albums isn't bad for any band either, not too many have more than three.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Apocalyptic Raves on October 18, 2007, 07:43:53 PM
Having only heard Pentagram I can't judge for myself whether or not they rival Burzum, but after reading this thread I'm definitely gonna hafta pick up Antichrist.

This might be a topic for a new thread, but how exactly do you judge quality in the narrative of a metal song? I mean, as far as structure goes, what makes one song better than another? The way I judge it has always been that either it works, it flows, it's coherent, and it's evident the artist had a clear idea in their head while writing the song, or it's just a just a jumbled mishmash of ideas that don't work with eachother.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Necrolust on October 19, 2007, 05:52:22 AM
They are the Deicide of Black Metal; opening up the gates to unparalleled expression in composition and tone on their sophomore album, only to subsequently become self-aware and cater to the crowd.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: on October 21, 2007, 02:19:06 PM
Good timing: they've just split up.

Gaaaaahl and King Ov Hell will continue the European tour as Gorgoroth and then they go to court to contest Infernus for the rights to the name "Gorgoroth".

There will still be a new studio album next year, recorded by the remaining duo and mixed by Pytten.  They've always made accomplished bm but it never had the ability to 'lift me out of myself' when listening, similar to Absu or Graveland.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Agni on October 21, 2007, 06:13:58 PM
but isn't Infernus the 'man' behind Gorgoroth ?  
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: o.d.i.r. on October 21, 2007, 09:16:28 PM
Sad news, as I am seeing them live in just over 2 weeks. Though they are supposedly still continuing the tour, it's a shame I won't be able to see the "full" lineup, so to speak.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: born for banning on October 22, 2007, 02:15:18 AM
Quote
This might be a topic for a new thread, but how exactly do you judge quality in the narrative of a metal song? I mean, as far as structure goes, what makes one song better than another?


It's levels of quality. You don't really compare two things to each other so much as you say "these are top notch, and distinguish themselves from the rest." If you want to compare, say, Burzum and Gorgoroth, you're then looking at the gestalt of details that distinguishes one from the other, and trying to figure which has clearer, brighter communication.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Agni on October 22, 2007, 06:30:52 AM
I'm sorry if it's off the topic but I could find Gorgoroth lyrics (except a few tracks) anywhere in the net apparently becasue of copyright issues (bullshit). Anyone can help?  I am looking for lyrics from Antichrist.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: o.d.i.r. on October 22, 2007, 07:15:26 AM
Quote
I'm sorry if it's off the topic but I could find Gorgoroth lyrics (except a few tracks) anywhere in the net apparently becasue of copyright issues (bullshit). Anyone can help?  I am looking for lyrics from Antichrist.


They don't publish their lyrics, and people who somehow figure out and write down the lyrics themselves and publish them are approached and requested to take them down under threat of legal action. It's probably pretty unlikely that you'll have any luck finding them.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Mithrandir on October 22, 2007, 07:38:25 AM
Quote

They don't publish their lyrics, and people who somehow figure out and write down the lyrics themselves and publish them are approached and requested to take them down under threat of legal action. It's probably pretty unlikely that you'll have any luck finding them.


Wonder who does that? Is it a label or does Gaahl approach them and threaten to drink their blurd  ;D
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: K on October 22, 2007, 10:27:13 AM
Gorgoroth is starting to stop tabletures too, they denied permission to metaltabs.com

Lyrics never seemed important to me, just the musical aspect (including vocals). As far as I can tell, the lyrics of pentagram is "quack quack quack", but it works.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: skaobh on October 22, 2007, 10:44:12 AM
Quote

Wonder who does that? Is it a label or does Gaahl approach them and threaten to drink their blurd  ;D


He doesn't drink blood, remember he's a vegetarian  ;D
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Mithrandir on October 22, 2007, 10:52:07 AM
Quote
Gorgoroth is starting to stop tabletures too, they denied permission to metaltabs.com

Lyrics never seemed important to me, just the musical aspect (including vocals). As far as I can tell, the lyrics of pentagram is "quack quack quack", but it works.


True, but then how does one discern the philosophical statement?
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Arctic Sun on October 22, 2007, 05:32:46 PM
Quote

True, but then how does one discern the philosophical statement?


Buy the album or hire a good lawyer.

Gorgoroth was on to something in the beginning, but then apparently became blinded by its own image, or was at least pre-occupied with propagating one.

In short, the brains behind Gorgoroth are selfishly introverted, with speculation and notice of as much being exploited for the sake of bolstering an image that, unfortunately, has been such that the group has been able to persist without actually contributing much of anything worthwhile (be it releases, interviews, or live performances gone awry).

The only reason to bother pointing this out is that Gorgorothís potential has remained consistently above average over the years, which is a little discouraging.  At any rate, Iím sure Gaahl will enjoy some great face-time during the upcoming lawsuit.    
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Agni on October 23, 2007, 04:18:01 AM
Lyrics are not important when you start listening to a song/album but once you start appreciating it, then its natural to want to know the lyrics. I have found that my favourite BM albums all have interesting/good lyrics.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: wEEman33 on October 23, 2007, 11:19:02 AM
Music provides the content; lyrics create the context.

At least, that's how I find it to be for most great albums.

When the music is so vague, confused, or empty that it cannot speak for itself (in terms of what it's trying to depict or communicate), then it has failed.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Mithrandir on October 23, 2007, 04:16:28 PM
I have registered some concern from friends and fans about the upcoming European tour in November because of the last dayís happenings. I can guarantee that the tour will go on as scheduled.

Gorgoroth has not split up but continued on in a different form. We will do this tour in honor of our working partners, booking agency, promoters and the audience who already bought tickets to the concerts. The alternative would be cancellation, which under no circumstance would I allow at this point in time.

Originally I had the intension of leaving Infernus with some sort of integrity. The way this case has developed I have no other choice but to reveal some of the reasons why I can no longer work with him.

First and foremost, itís the disrespect he has shown our working partners; record labels, session-musicians, promoters (by sending unserious demands in raiders etc.) and producers we have worked with over the years which has lead to this decision.

In addition, he has not been a creative force for the last 8 years. He has shown no interest in the art defining Gorgoroth during that same period of time. He has not shown up for rehearsals and has broken agreements on several occasions. This is also an important reason in explaining why he is not part of Gorgoroth at the time being. He has broken the codex of honor and is not living by his own rules, the rules he set for himself and his surroundings on all levels.

I have tried for several years my best to continue in the original form in hopes for a change and I have done so in honor of his previous work in Gorgoroth and the fact that he is the founding member. I`ve hoped that he would become the artist he once was several years ago and Iíve realized that it will never happen. Itís gotten to a point were King and I canít create a fire as long as someone is there pouring water over it.

I`m not personally involved in the formal part of this, but we have prepared for any given result of this matter. I know our partners have worked on our behalf preparing for what we knew would happen, for example, preparing the legal name copyright and other formal tasks. Iíll let the lawyers on both sides argue as much as they want. What is the truth is the truth --- and whoever claims otherwise is a false prophet and will be treated accordingly.

We have reached the conclusion to continue Gorgoroth as a duo because the alternative would be no Gorgoroth at all at this time. King and I have given Gorgoroth content for the last 8 years and will bring our art with us into the future. We are already on our way to start a new and improved area of our work. You will, in the following weeks, be presented our agenda to continue to spread true Norwegian black metal through recordings and concerts. We will, with or without the name Gorgoroth, raise the flame higher and brighter than ever.

The past defines the future, but sometimes you must leave something behind to be able to grow.

Gaahl

Bergen 23 October 2007

www.gorgoroth.org
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: shadowmystic on October 23, 2007, 11:16:33 PM
Interesting, it sounds like when Gorgoroth started to lose their integrity, Infernus lost interest in the project, I wonder why he continued with it for so long.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: K on October 24, 2007, 04:51:31 AM
Probably one of the same reasons Gaahl was talking about; waiting and hoping for change.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: we hope you die on October 24, 2007, 07:36:17 AM
Although Antichrsit will remain a classic, Destroyer is a criminally underated album. They were always overlooked as typifying the Norwegian scene, hence they were dismissed. It was only after destroyer that they really began to get stagnet.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: K on October 24, 2007, 08:13:08 AM
Destroyer is definitely a good album, but one thing I have noticed here is that there is little need to note the great albums, because everyone already knows them. I don't think its unappreciated, but there is just not any particular need to talk about something that is widely --at least here it is, I think --understood.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: kontinual on October 24, 2007, 10:10:57 AM
Quote
Destroyer is definitely a good album, but one thing I have noticed here is that there is little need to note the great albums, because everyone already knows them. I don't think its unappreciated, but there is just not any particular need to talk about something that is widely --at least here it is, I think --understood.


Why would you assume some marginal album is universally recognized here?

I recall it being a total mess (from hearing it 7-8 years ago), but I'm going to listen to it again to confirm.

Somewhat unrelated, but does anyone remember when GORGOROTH were considered sell-outs for releasing that album on Nuclear Blast? Metal's memory seems to be about 5 years long since one sees nary a mention of that fact anywhere.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Mithrandir on October 25, 2007, 07:14:21 AM
GORGOROTH guitarist Infernus ó who is involved in a legal dispute with his estranged bandmates over the rights to the group's name has released the following statement to BLABBERMOUTH.NET:

"Today I have been denied access to the official MySpace profile of GORGOROTH. I am working on it as we speak, but I do not know how long it takes for the MySpace customer support team to deal with this.

"I have registrated a new statement from one or two of my former co-workers, and I will soon come with some more info on how I regard the situation and how it has developed, where I ó without intending becoming too personal ó will briefly present my plan for the continuation of GORGOROTH, possibly also with reference to some legal papers translated into English and with a photocopy of a document proving King's [bass] attempt to registrate the GORGOROTH name as his personal belonging behind my back in the beginning of last month. I will also elaborate upon the form in which the break-up happened, and show it was also my will to continue doing the upcoming tour first, then deal with the legal issues and the break-up later on, in an more appropriate way.

"For the more slowminded: Both parts want to continue under the name GORGOROTH. As the founder and only original member of the band, I claim the legal rights to the name. I am fully aware of that I can be a difficult person to work with, but it is my sincere opinion that to the degree this was a problem for the other two guys they should have withdrawn from the band and started something new, on their own. My intention is to continue for another 15 years!

"Again, I feel sorry for the friends, co-workers and fans all over the world that now have to withness such a happening taking place."

GORGOROTH recently entered Grieghallen Studios in Norway with producer Pytten (ENSLAVED, TRELLDOM) to begin work on a new live album, "Live in Grieghallen 2007".
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Necrolust on October 25, 2007, 08:08:29 AM
Co-workers, eh? What an apt name for current BM musicians  ;)
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: -H418ov21.C on October 25, 2007, 08:52:49 AM
Quote
GORGOROTH guitarist Infernus [...] has released the following statement to BLABBERMOUTH.NET:

"Today I have been denied access to the official MySpace profile of GORGOROTH."


:o

;D

::)
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: NEVR4GETLOL on October 25, 2007, 09:41:05 AM
What a bunch of whiners. Change your name, make something worthwhile.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: wEEman33 on October 25, 2007, 11:10:07 AM
But at this point in their career, the Gorgoroth name (and all of its associated connotations) is the only thing that sells records/tickets for this band (since the quality of the music is so lacking that it cannot sell the product by itself), so I think it's pretty obvious why there would be such a big tussle over the naming rights.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Mithrandir on October 25, 2007, 11:25:58 AM
Quote
But at this point in their career, the Gorgoroth name (and all of its associated connotations) is the only thing that sells records/tickets for this band (since the quality of the music is so lacking that it cannot sell the product by itself), so I think it's pretty obvious why there would be such a big tussle over the naming rights.


How does a band have legal tussles over a name they didn't invent, though? Shouldn't the battle be with the Tolkien estate?
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: wEEman33 on October 25, 2007, 01:07:58 PM
Another interesting turn:

Quote
GORGOROTH frontman Gaahl and bassist King ov Hell ó who are involved in a legal dispute with guitarist Infernus over the rights to the group's name ó have released the following update:

"Continuing on with the new agenda now forged for GORGOROTH, Gaahl and King have enlisted none other than Hellhammer (MAYHEM, DIMMU BORGIR) to join them on battery beginning in 2008.

"Gaahl and King are creating a force which will only contain members of a strong and creative energy in honor of the art that is GORGOROTH and their renewed sense of destruction and war! Hellhammer possesses these ideals and he will add another dimension to this new and different beginning.

"Please welcome Hellhammer to the battle!"
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: K on October 25, 2007, 02:52:03 PM
Quote
Why would you assume some marginal album is universally recognized here?

I recall it being a total mess (from hearing it 7-8 years ago), but I'm going to listen to it again to confirm.


I disagree with you completely on this one. It is hardly marginal, and I find all the songs fit together fairly well. It was the last cry of a dying band, and everything since has been whimpers.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Apocalyptic Raves on October 25, 2007, 03:30:17 PM
If only there was a metalhead judge deciding the case on who gets the name Gorgoroth, who would rule against Infernus based on the fact that Twilight of the Idols, Ad Majoram..., Incipit Satan all sucked.

It would be a moral victory for hessians everywhere.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: on October 25, 2007, 11:00:00 PM
Quote
If only there was a metalhead judge deciding the case on who gets the name Gorgoroth, who would rule against Infernus based on the fact that Twilight of the Idols, Ad Majoram..., Incipit Satan all sucked.

It would be a moral victory for hessians everywhere.


These are the albums that Infernus did not write though, surely?


Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: ShitFaced on October 25, 2007, 11:31:03 PM
Quote
Another interesting turn:



Where is Hellhammer not trying to leave a mark within the black metal scene?
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: wEEman33 on October 26, 2007, 03:36:15 AM
I think Hellhammer's modern body of work shows that he is much more interested in collecting paychecks than "leaving a mark," as you put it.

The relative scarcity of skilled metal drummers (compared to say, guitarists) also helps his cause a good deal.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Mithrandir on October 26, 2007, 12:20:53 PM
Quote

Buy the album or hire a good lawyer.



I do have a couple of their albums now, unfortunately, they do not print their lyrics.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: SubduedAngkst on October 26, 2007, 08:03:15 PM
Quote
Although Antichrsit will remain a classic, Destroyer is a criminally underated album. They were always overlooked as typifying the Norwegian scene, hence they were dismissed. It was only after destroyer that they really began to get stagnet.


Destroyer still gets a regular listen from me, far more than other Gorgoroth.  The tracks Open the Gates, & Om Kristen og Jodisk Tru are highlights, with Virginborn closing out with a nice slow, doomy contrast to rest of the album (disregarding the Darkthrone cover).

Incipit, Twilight, and Ad Majorem had interesting bits, Ad Majorem being the better of those 3 IMO.  But, with little continuity and totally lacking the spirit of previous Gorgoroth, they just seem pale.  It is interesting that Infernus is credited with little input after Destroyer.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: born for banning on October 28, 2007, 12:02:02 AM
Quote

Destroyer still gets a regular listen from me, far more than other Gorgoroth. †The tracks Open the Gates, & Om Kristen og Jodisk Tru are highlights, with Virginborn closing out with a nice slow, doomy contrast to rest of the album (disregarding the Darkthrone cover).

Incipit, Twilight, and Ad Majorem had interesting bits, Ad Majorem being the better of those 3 IMO. †But, with little continuity and totally lacking the spirit of previous Gorgoroth, they just seem pale. †It is interesting that Infernus is credited with little input after Destroyer.


I would mark Under the Sign of Hell as the beginning of their decline. It lost the brilliant focus of the first two, and became a collection of riffs with no mystery to them. After that, it was as you say: a good bit here, a good bit there, but the whole adds up to a big pile of shit with a few nuggets in it, which is still a big pile of shit.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Apocalyptic Raves on October 28, 2007, 10:25:44 AM
Quote

These are the albums that Infernus did not write though, surely?




Who even knows anymore? By the sound of that press statement, Gaahl made it sound like Infernus was less involved, thus Gorgoroth suffered. But then again, that could just be shittalking from a frustrated ex bandmember.

I take back that statement.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Omnipotence on October 30, 2007, 09:23:50 AM
Maaneskyggens Slave is their best achievement, and remains one of the best examples of narrative song structure in metal. I think only the title track from Antichrist came close to matching it, though I agree the Antichrist album as a whole really refined their melody.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Mithrandir on October 30, 2007, 10:29:56 AM
I was reading about Gaahl's case of assault today, and it appears in court he has stated the only reason he gave the man he beat up a cup is because he was "bleeding all over my carpet." Why on earth would a man who claims to lead the lifestyle he shows on documentary's be worried about a carpet?
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Necrolust on October 31, 2007, 03:50:40 PM
Quote
Why on earth would a man who claims to lead the lifestyle he shows on documentary's be worried about a carpet?


I don't know the details behind this, but, from what I hear, Gaahl is a mystic of some sort (a practicing Pagan?), and mystics tend to be very superstitious, especially with something like THAT.

But fuck the present; the past seems to be much more important and magical as far as Gorgoroth the artistic outlet is concerned.

Quote
Maaneskyggens Slave is their best achievement


Agreed wholeheartedly. Albums are the smallest structural unit for Metal music methinks, and without the rest of that album preceding it, the finale wouldn't have the momentum it has from the first seven songs and would be much less powerful and evocative. A good thematic album is not just narrative in the form of each song, but also on the macrocosmic level of the work itself...

Another interesting happening on that album is about 2/3 through "Katharinas Bortgang," the music grabs ahold of some mystical power and gradually peaks unto a terrible, horrifying shriek and crash of drums... Always gave me goosebumps  8)

Gorgoroth's Pentagram was one of Prozak's better reviews and I liked how he likened it to theatrical evil in order to achieve "sheer destructiveness toward normal music."

On another note, I was always curious about what was going on in-between songs on that album and the deeper meaning of it, if any. The effects they use seem so subtle and fleeting; a nigh-subliminal nod to horror. Whatever it is, it succeeded and it still has me thinking. Ah, esotericism..
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: chb on November 01, 2007, 05:47:46 AM
Quote
"For the rebirth of the live band it is considered necessary to get this done first, as it is my intention to erase as much as possible of the traces of the last years' periods output. The new live band will focus on old material and brand new and shall in one form or another by Satan last for another 15 years!"


Good news! (http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=30171)
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Mithrandir on November 05, 2007, 07:32:47 AM
Quote
"The vocalist has been considering quitting the band numerous times. The other actually quit last year due to difficulties combining playing in a clear-cut Satanic metal band as GORGOROTH with the fact that he is full-time employed as a primary school teacher."


;D ;D
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: on November 05, 2007, 09:55:22 AM
It seems Infernus asked Fenriz (http://www.metalteamuk.net/interview-darkthrone.htm) to drum for "his" version of Gorgoroth, but the grumpy bastard no longer likes to play the drums(!) or to play in any band whatsoever if it's not called Darkthrone, so he said no.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: born for banning on November 29, 2007, 07:17:46 PM
If Gorgoroth had all perished in a car wreck after the second album, they'd be hailed as geniuses to this day.

Musicians, don't make your bands your careers.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: o.d.i.r. on December 20, 2007, 04:47:17 AM
Looks like Gaahl and King ov Hell won the rights to the name, unsurprisingly. Although part of me did expect them to side with the one and only founding member left.

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=87015
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: on December 21, 2007, 02:45:46 PM
I'm still quite intrigued by the apparent use of the legal system to solve this dispute, as clearly none of these people own rights on the name "Gorgoroth" (which because of the LotR films is now back under copyright).

The trading rights to the name Gorgoroth are owned by New Line (part of Warner group), so expect to see the Gaahl version of Gorgoroth signing to Roadrunner (also Warner group) in 2008..!  ;D
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: meat on December 22, 2007, 09:13:46 PM
"GORGOROTH's current touring lineup includes Gaahl on vocals, King ov Hell on bass, Nick Barker (ex-DIMMU BORGIR, CRADLE OF FILTH) on drums, and Teloch (NIDINGR, UMORAL, 1349) and Sykelig on guitars."

What's more black metal than whining in court over who gets the band's name? Inducting a COF member into the band!
Title: Re: Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated? no
Post by: dark_defender on December 23, 2007, 12:30:14 AM
i heard a rumour the new gorgoroth material will be composed purely of sweeping synth melodies and whispered vocals in a droning ambient structure.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Dunkelheit on December 23, 2007, 09:33:48 AM
Quote
I'm still quite intrigued by the apparent use of the legal system to solve this dispute, as clearly none of these people own rights on the name "Gorgoroth" (which because of the LotR films is now back under copyright).

The trading rights to the name Gorgoroth are owned by New Line (part of Warner group), so expect to see the Gaahl version of Gorgoroth signing to Roadrunner (also Warner group) in 2008..! †;D


It was settled in Norwegian courts so I don't think American copyrights have anything to do with it. The only way they could probably get into legal trouble with it, is the use of their name in America. Even then you'd need whoever owns the copyright to give a shit about it, or even hear of them.

Gorgoroth's been shit for years. Pentagram and Antichrist are great but I don't think I've liked anything else from them. That Ghaal guy seems remotely interesting (if only for his Nietzschean references and interest in shamanism; I can't stand the satan bullshit) but I'm not a big fan of his vocal work or the music as a whole while he's been part of the band.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Prospero on December 29, 2007, 04:53:20 AM
Quote
Looks like Gaahl and King ov Hell won the rights to the name, unsurprisingly. Although part of me did expect them to side with the one and only founding member left.

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=87015


Good thing about their interview is that they don't seem to give a shit about all those bureaucratic questions.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: we hope you die on January 01, 2008, 10:40:30 AM
Why doesn't infernus just fuck the name and release stuff under a new title?
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: chrstphrbnntt on January 01, 2008, 01:44:19 PM
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Why doesn't infernus just fuck the name and release stuff under a new title?


Because the band name is the only thing either party has going for them at this point.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: ASBO on January 08, 2008, 02:53:29 PM
It seems like very few people now are familiar with the classics like Varathron, Darkthrone, Gorgoroth, Enslaved, Immortal and Graveland. Later releases, they know, but the foundations of the genre are a mystery to them or they don't like them because they're more complicated than the crap they're listening to that's current.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: shadowmystic on January 09, 2008, 05:59:16 PM
True, When I asked the question in the op I was refering to their first two albums, I realise they are recognised but I put them above nearly every other release to come out of Norway.  I was just wondering if other people felt the same way, only Burzum convincingly surpassed them from what I can see.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Divus_de_Mortuus on January 09, 2008, 09:05:14 PM
Perhaps I haven't forced myself enough listens until I finally "get" them, but I would rank Gorgoroth below most of Norway. I must confess that the hilarious vocals distract me from the music.

Here is a question; on these boards, old Satyricon is treated as an unoriginal clone, simply an amalgamation of other bands of the era, but when examining Gorgoroth, I think it's pretty clear they are firmly rooted in everything that was going on around them as well, so where do you men see the difference? I must also confess I like Satyricon's career through Nemesis Divina, and I would certainly rank them higher than Gorgoroth.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Agni on January 09, 2008, 09:35:05 PM
I guess Satyricon is seen as muddled up and without a particular direction though  their early albums are decent. Whereas Gorgoroth's music seems to have a certain goal, although I find the petty satanism pretty boring.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: dark_defender on January 09, 2008, 10:36:15 PM
to me Satyricon is almost purely aesthetic based, but they sure did a good job of fooling people with the early black metal aesthetics and imagery. on a deep level they are motivated primarily towards market/scene popularity (including their first album). they don't believe in their art the same way that Burzum, early Emperor, Beherit or Ildjarn do.

i think there is some deeper internal angst in old Gorgoroth, not exactly satanism, though i personally don't like them and don't think there music was ever going to evolve into anything truly great.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Divus_de_Mortuus on January 09, 2008, 10:44:57 PM
I always thought Satyricon were pretty commited back then to their art, and only became rock stars later. Especially with Nemesis. I don't know that the men from Darkthrone would have associated and joined with them back then if they were the posers they seemed to some to be.

I think the Mother North song and video absolutely rule.

I know Varg hated Dimmu Borgir's guts from day one, but has he ever commented on either Satyricon or Gorgoroth?
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Divus_de_Mortuus on January 09, 2008, 10:53:36 PM
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I guess Satyricon is seen as muddled up and without a particular direction though †their early albums are decent. Whereas Gorgoroth's music seems to have a certain goal, although I find the petty satanism pretty boring.


I think Nemesis Divina was the most focused and directed album, their opus. Satyricon were by comparison a lot younger than the guys around them in the scene, and this is why I forgive the short comings of the early albums. How ever well intentioned, it's hard to create an album with a real identity when you've only just discovered yours and only got your guitar for Christmas the year before last.

But man, I try not to let the actions and subsequent releases by bands and their members color how I see their old work, but this band is so terribly bad now its hard not to.

As for Gorgoroth, they sure do seem to try their hardest to get into trouble for peddly shit nowadays, to prove their metalness 15 years after the fucking fact. But where were they when the churches were burning?
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: FIAT on January 10, 2008, 05:31:03 PM
Even at their best, Satyricon suffered from discontinuous songwriting. This isn't a denial of artistic intent, rather of a certain form of synthetic intelligence.

The first two Gorgorth albums are superior to anything in black metal save for Burzum, Immortal, Emperor, Darkthrone, and Sacramentum, and are probably on par with if not slightly better than the best of Graveland. Though their niche within the Norwegian scene should be apparent, on closer inspection their music serves as entry into a world unexplored, and whose gates have seemingly since been sealed.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on January 10, 2008, 07:45:13 PM
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Even at their best, Satyricon suffered from discontinuous songwriting. This isn't a denial of artistic intent, rather of a certain form of synthetic intelligence.

The first two Gorgorth albums are superior to anything in black metal save for Burzum, Immortal, Emperor, Darkthrone, and Sacramentum, and are probably on par with if not slightly better than the best of Graveland. Though their niche within the Norwegian scene should be apparent, on closer inspection their music serves as entry into a world unexplored, and whose gates have seemingly since been sealed.


I would say that the artists you mention made works of relatively equal value rather then higher. In fact if I had the choice I would choose early Gorgoroth over any of those artists except for select parts of the Burzum discovery.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: ASBO on January 22, 2008, 04:48:27 PM
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Satyricon were by comparison a lot younger than the guys around them in the scene, and this is why I forgive the short comings of the early albums.


Enslaved were young, too.

Satyricon doesn't get it. They think good music = good aesthetics. On aesthetics, they are incomparable. As far as the music? A disorganized mess that has no idea what it's doing. Where they should push, they fall back, and then in the parts that should be reduced to filler, they attempt their grandest moments.

Black metal started eating shit when Satyriconmen was accepted as the norm. And fuck Ulver too.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: we hope you die on January 23, 2008, 02:13:00 AM
Many of the important bands at that time were still young, hell, Mozart was young. Early Gorgoroth is in a different league to Satyricon, whose music is disjointed, and although the odd riff or passage is good, it doesn't fit together properly. I find this even on Nemesis Divina.

I think we can simply seperate what early Gorgoroth did what they are now and say that they are two different bands, as the difference is so immense. Unfortunatly later Gorgoroth is what  many kids want to hear now.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: alax on January 26, 2008, 08:36:43 PM
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I think we can simply seperate what early Gorgoroth did what they are now and say that they are two different bands, as the difference is so immense. Unfortunatly later Gorgoroth is what  many kids want to hear now.


I find this to be puzzling. Later Gorgoroth strikes me as rather harsh and abrasive, while earlier works aren't polished by any means but seem to be much more pleasant to the ears (especially their eponymous track on the second album). Of course, aesthetic isn't the only factor in making music good, but I figure that's the primary focus of most 'metalheads'.

We can safely dismiss any future works by this band, seeing as it no longer features any of the musicians that were involved with the first two albums. In fact, from what I understand all of the sub-par albums featured little or no creative input from Infernus anyway. Anything else created by this Gaahl/King line-up will just be more of the same.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: ASBO on February 05, 2008, 03:14:59 PM
Earlier Gorgoroth tried to be beautiful, mysterious, bold and cryptic.

Later Gorgoroth is one inch deep and angry. Shit, if I wanted that, I'd just listen to Black Flag.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: Necrolust on February 06, 2008, 11:18:29 AM
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Earlier Black Metal tried to be beautiful, mysterious, bold and cryptic.

Later Black Metal is one inch deep and angry. Shit, if I wanted that, I'd just listen to Black Flag.


I'll take Classical, thanks.  :P
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: ASBO on February 07, 2008, 04:19:58 PM
You can have both. I'll warn anyone though that if you listen to enough classical, you will listen to less of your metal CDs.

Learning to appreciate good classical (not imitators like Mahler, Schoenberg, Mendelssohn, Williams, Ives) is like learning to read again. Suddenly you're thinking in terms of 30-minute pieces of many complex interlocking themes... when you do listen to metal again, it sounds like children's music.

Rock music just sounds disorganized.

It takes almost a year of regular listening to "get" what classical music is about, at least for most people. When they do, if they do, they may never leave it behind, because it's more rewarding listening than any other type of music.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on February 09, 2008, 07:24:08 PM
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You can have both. I'll warn anyone though that if you listen to enough classical, you will listen to less of your metal CDs.

Learning to appreciate good classical (not imitators like Mahler, Schoenberg, Mendelssohn, Williams, Ives) is like learning to read again. Suddenly you're thinking in terms of 30-minute pieces of many complex interlocking themes... when you do listen to metal again, it sounds like children's music.

Rock music just sounds disorganized.

It takes almost a year of regular listening to "get" what classical music is about, at least for most people. When they do, if they do, they may never leave it behind, because it's more rewarding listening than any other type of music.


I would prefer to place Wagner and Liszt in the "imitators" list and have Mendelssohn removed from it. I think Schumann had an excellent and appropriate mind for classifying those who uphold classical ideals with the aesthetics from those who who only present an aesthetic without a real or important will. Of the later he placed Liszt and Wagner and in the former (headed by Bach in this pantheon of composers) is Mendelssohn.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: chrstphrbnntt on February 09, 2008, 07:24:43 PM
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You can have both. I'll warn anyone though that if you listen to enough classical, you will listen to less of your metal CDs.

Learning to appreciate good classical (not imitators like Mahler, Schoenberg, Mendelssohn, Williams, Ives) is like learning to read again. Suddenly you're thinking in terms of 30-minute pieces of many complex interlocking themes... when you do listen to metal again, it sounds like children's music.

Rock music just sounds disorganized.

It takes almost a year of regular listening to "get" what classical music is about, at least for most people. When they do, if they do, they may never leave it behind, because it's more rewarding listening than any other type of music.


Mahler was hardly an 'imitator'. Second or high third tier, like Gorement or Funebre or Adramelech. The best of Mahler is notable for its atmosphere of bittersweet nostalgia and masterful use of contrapuntal techniques. His 7th is his best.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: chrstphrbnntt on February 09, 2008, 07:28:51 PM
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I would prefer to place Wagner and Liszt in the "imitators" list and have Mendelssohn removed from it. I think Schumann had an excellent and appropriate mind for classifying those who uphold classical ideals with the aesthetics from those who who only present an aesthetic without a real or important will. Of the later he placed Liszt and Wagner and in the former (headed by Bach in this pantheon of composers) is Mendelssohn.


Mendelssohn is overshadowed by Brahms and Schumann out of the more conservative German composers of the 19th century. He has a few fine compositions though -- been listening to a couple of the string quartets lately. Was reminded of him by a cover of "Salterello Presto" at the end of a Windham Hell album, a fine band.
Title: Re: Are Gorgoroth immensely under-appreciated?
Post by: ASBO on February 10, 2008, 04:50:35 AM
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I would prefer to place Wagner and Liszt in the "imitators" list and have Mendelssohn removed from it.


I don't understand that at all. Wagner re-imaged music; Mendelssohn cloned Mozart with an Italian feel and made more accessible music with less of an attention span.

Schoenberg and Mahler were false innovators. They took an academic theory unrelated to the audience, applied it to music, and made distractions. These two postmodernists are roundly praised by people who think it makes them look smart, and no one else.