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Metal => Interzone => Topic started by: Prospero on December 06, 2007, 04:33:18 PM

Title: Merry Christmas
Post by: Prospero on December 06, 2007, 04:33:18 PM
Most of us live in Christian families. Maybe this ain't true for you, but I do, and Christmas means gift time. But first we go to the church (which happens once or twice every year, what a fraud). Then we unite, which also does not happen very often.

It would be too disrespectful not to participate (and I have much respect for my family) so I think I'll give some 'special' gifts this year, as for the years to come. I mean things I do myself rather than goods. It has been only two years, view my young age, that I've been buying gifts, only a few, and I'm about to change this. What will you do on December the 25th?
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: scourge on December 06, 2007, 05:42:09 PM
The tree still goes up and it remains a time of gathering. I have forbidden church attendance and gifts that are purchased.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Dunkelheit on December 06, 2007, 05:56:11 PM
Give oaths instead of gifts and you'll essentially be celebrating Yule. The decorating the tree, the ham dinner, burning of the yule log, etc, etc are all just traditional pagan traditions for the winter solstice. People are never satisfied with gifts anyway, I think underneath it all most people enjoy Christmas just for the coming together of family and the celebratory feasts and decorations. It would be absurd to give up holidays, well at least keep the meaningful ones (an easy way to identify useful holidays is that they follow the patterns of nature).
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Apocalyptic Raves on December 06, 2007, 06:02:51 PM
I'm trying to gather a close group of friends for a yule celebration of sorts in the woods with a bonfire. That won't be on Dec 25 though, I reserve that day for my family even though I've specifically asked for no gifts, and my family has respected that despite the fact that every last one of them are Christian.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: AttheGates1996 on December 06, 2007, 06:05:28 PM
I'm not a Christian, but I still finding myself enjoying Christmas. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty anti-Christian, but that's not the point. I simply like the feeling of bliss that is spread through everybody during this time. Past memories are also great, very influential.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Apocalyptic Raves on December 06, 2007, 06:06:58 PM
Atthegates, I too used to enjoy this bliss you talk about but recently it seems more like indoctrination. Every winter after thanksgiving, the obsession begins. It turns every normal moderner into a ravenous uberconsumer.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Dunkelheit on December 06, 2007, 06:09:56 PM
Quote
I'm trying to gather a close group of friends for a yule celebration of sorts in the woods with a bonfire. That won't be on Dec 25 though, I reserve that day for my family even though I've specifically asked for no gifts, and my family has respected that despite the fact that every last one of them are Christian.


The actual date of the solstice varries from year to year, so you most likely can have it on the correct day and still have Christmas Day set aside for your family. The date was set to the 25th to coincide with the Roman calendar and match up better with Christianity.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Apocalyptic Raves on December 06, 2007, 06:12:42 PM
Winter Solstice falls on the 22nd
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Mithrandir on December 06, 2007, 06:17:43 PM
Quote
Atthegates, I too used to enjoy this bliss you talk about but recently it seems more like indoctrination. Every winter after thanksgiving, the obsession begins. It turns every normal moderner into a ravenous uberconsumer.


I agree completely. The only thing Christmas means to me anymore is very interesting music. I'll be dropping into various cathedrals (the one's with the big pipe organs) to listen to the music/choral music that is performed on and around the day. Everything else I find boring/irrelevant. I don't have a family anywhere within a few thousand miles, so I'll be spending the day pretty much on my own, observing people. Christmas used to be a nice time in the late 80s/early 90s, especially when I was living in Europe, but as we all know various factors have led it to just be another day where people can feel good about themselves a little more overboard than usual.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: AttheGates1996 on December 06, 2007, 06:52:30 PM
Not in an attempt to sound rude but I think you guys are over analyzing Christmas. For one time in the year I think you should forget outside society and its obsession with a holiday. It doesn’t matter what it’s celebrated for, whether it be Jesus, or a pagan tradition. I like to simply escape from all stresses, such as work and school, and just sit on my ass listening to interesting music and relaxing.

I wouldn’t say that Christmas is anymore of an indoctrination than it was in the past, not to say that it was never like this, but I choose to let Christmas a blissful time by own thoughts, not because society wants it to be that way.

I hope that made sense. It very well might not have.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Humanicide on December 06, 2007, 07:55:31 PM
Let me go on the record by saying that i work at a hardware store, and if i hear one more fucking "Xmas carol" i am going to rip my hair out and go completely batshit crazy.

But anyway, i do not consider myself a Christian, however, i wish to avoid tensions within my family (my mother is not religious either, my father is somewhat, but nearly all of my immediate relatives are). My family does not frequent church during holidays, or at all (except when we have gone to Greece, my father's home, i have been to many churches there, quite well constructed, beautiful artwork as well). Rather, we treat the time as a time to come together and be a family, if not only for a few hours. We also go to my aunt's or have people over at my house.

Honestly, if there wasnt so much fucking commercialism involved with this holiday i dare say i might like Christmas.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: we hope you die on December 07, 2007, 02:32:59 AM
Christmas has become a celebration of capitalism. To some it is still a religious event, be it christian or pagan, but for most it is a time to shop, shop for gifts and shop for food. All the big retail brands capitalize on this extra thirst that people have at this time of year. Capitalism is the new western religion, and christmas has become the biggest date on the consumerist calender.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Gruumsh on December 07, 2007, 02:48:19 AM
I live in a traditional christian society, where christmas means going to your granparents' house (where other members of the wider and closer family gather) to eat, drink and talk. It's good and relaxed atmosphere, with no consumer bullshit plastic gifts; my presents involve fruit, homemade juices, pršut (smoked pork meat, extremely delicious), i.e. the stuff that are usefull, and some money (which I try to spend wisely).

I don't go to church for a boring mass, christmas is for me just a time to have a good time, even though i'm not a christian and my wider family aren't some religious fanatics that pray all day long; we avoid consumerism crazyness that infects everybody else. Also, i don't want to upset my grandparents by tellig them i dislike (to say the least) christianity, they don't need that in their old age.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Prospero on December 07, 2007, 03:57:23 AM
I guess your from Croatia, I got ancestry from there. I visited Austria, Slovenia and Croatia this summer and I was impressed at how seriously religious celebrations were taken. But most importantly, I was impressed with the fact that everything would stop on Sundays! That was simply amazing, no country should allow people to work on Sundays. There is many other things that impressed me in this part of Europe. By the way, I'm from Quebec, Can. and here there is no rest on Sundays anymore... Perhaps this is why our society goes crazy every holidays.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Humanicide on December 07, 2007, 05:17:45 AM
In Europe, it is common to have businesses close 1-2 hours every day for lunch, or to have barely anything open on a Sunday. thats how it was when i visited Greece.

Greek Easter, by the way, is a celebration which is fantastic. Tons of food, alcohol, and good times.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Gruumsh on December 07, 2007, 05:24:51 AM
You are close, I'm a Croat from Herzegowina, and we're not yet notorious for christmas rampage psychopatic shopping spree that currently happens in Croatia (they are starting to turn into decadent consumers like others). We are more traditional, relaxed community, but that's unfortunately starting to change for the worse.

On sundays it is a custom to work less and rest (I guess that comes from the bible when god rests on sunday and so should we), but it is not regulated by law; people are used to relax on sundays, it has always been like that, as the elderly people say...
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: chyll on December 07, 2007, 05:37:50 AM
The intensely Christian/ 'conservative' community I form part of ensures that Christmas remains a time for taking a break from an otherwise very hectic academic lifestyle and contribute more fully to the demands of family, friends and the natural environment.

Unfortunately the American syndrome mentioned in the post above mine is taking root as well, but old habits die hard, and life here has yet not ceased to have meaning for many.

Happy Yuletide!
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: ASBO on December 08, 2007, 08:09:41 AM
This year, I'm going to celebrate at our local mosque because if we're going to pick an Abrahamic religion, I want the most violent one I can get.

Christmas should be a time for AK-47s over a roaring fire, hand grenades hanging from the tree, suicide vests wrapped in gay packaging for the kids, and extensive feasts at which we toast our ancestors who died fighting the infidel.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: antithetikal on December 08, 2007, 08:27:13 AM
Quote
This year, I'm going to celebrate at our local mosque because if we're going to pick an Abrahamic religion, I want the most violent one I can get.

Christmas should be a time for AK-47s over a roaring fire, hand grenades hanging from the tree, suicide vests wrapped in gay packaging for the kids, and extensive feasts at which we toast our ancestors who died fighting the infidel.



Who against who you said? My ancestors? Nice... then let's celebrate Christ'capitalist'Mas that way.

It is going to be really fun. Heh

Can I decorate a pine tree with some "believers" heads?

Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: wizard on December 08, 2007, 08:32:59 AM
I don't see how the majority can avoid Christmas if they come from a Christian family. Personally, i rarely celebrate anything because it isn't logical to me since ambition and invidualism is a pile of Oprah bullshit. However, I must attend Church at Christmas, meet up with the familly etc... I dare not mention to any adults my opinion on religion in general, even if i plan to commit suicide a day after.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: antithetikal on December 08, 2007, 08:43:27 AM
At a very young age I was put into a Christian school. Ironically, none of my family members are Christians.  In fact, the decision was taken due to the fact the school had a good educational level.
At the beginning, (I'm not scared to say this), I was into religion a bit, but after a while, and specially after I started getting more and more into mythology, science and philosophy, I became rebellious. Not in a violent manner. I simply started arguing with my the teachers about the possibility that religion was purely an human concept, and that god didn't really exist.
If you don't believe, and if you hold a position when it comes to what you belief, you should definitely show your view to others.

My wife is from a Muslim family from Morocco. When I met her, she was a believer in what she thought, was the right thing for her. But with logical arguments and clearer ideas I came to show her other possibilities. I never imposed my view as being the "truth". But simply showed another possibility.

And concerning Christmas, we simply don't celebrate it. Not like most families do. For us (me and my wife) is a time in which we simply get closer after an hectic year.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Agni on December 08, 2007, 09:51:02 AM
Christmas in the non-christian-but -affected by globalization  nations is a pile of capitalist bullcrap lapped up by hipsters. Last christmas I was busy enjoying Massacra and Demilich(and maybe a bit of alcohol). This time, something else.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Valan on December 08, 2007, 10:05:18 AM
Actually any excuse to have people round for a feed, I love cooking and love having my family and friends around. Christmas is the perfect opportunity as it is the only time of the year everyone is off work at the same time. So in a sense I don't see it as a 'celebration', just family time.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: AttheGates1996 on December 08, 2007, 08:14:51 PM
Quote
I dare not mention to any adults my opinion on religion in general, even if i plan to commit suicide a day after.


I 100% know what you're saying. I was once a Christian then slid to an atheist. If my parents found they would cry for the rest of their lives. I respect them to much to sadden them and make them worry for me the rest of their lives.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: esoteric on December 09, 2007, 01:26:59 AM
Quote
Actually any excuse to have people round for a feed, I love cooking and love having my family and friends around. Christmas is the perfect opportunity as it is the only time of the year everyone is off work at the same time. So in a sense I don't see it as a 'celebration', just family time.


Precisely. It was a religious tradition with pagan roots turned into a shop-fest. The event is unavoidable so just make the best of it that you can and try to influence as many people as possible while you're doing it.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Namtar on December 09, 2007, 03:45:59 AM
Actually the most precise characteristics of what Christmas really mean to people were shown to me when I saw poster inviting people to come to see Great Christmas travesty party.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: we hope you die on December 09, 2007, 05:39:03 AM
Well, my family aren't christian, we celebrate it out of habit and cos everyone else is. There's nothing wrong with having a good time, whatever the excuse is, but i don't wanna lie to myself and otehrs about what we're actually celebrating. Where i come from the religious element is all but gone for most, and it is a chance to shop and buy, and everyone kinda gets  a it crazy. (i live in the UK)
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Apocalyptic Raves on December 09, 2007, 12:52:20 PM
In the US, Christmas is being replaced by "the holidays", something that people of all religions and beliefs can celebrate (spend money). To Christians, this is a travesty, but to hipster "religious atheists", it's great because now they can be let in on the fun (get belligerent drunk at the office christmas party) without feeling guilty.

They really needed another excuse to spend money and get wasted?

Keeping it Christmas might have preserved just a little bit of the cultural integrity, but seeing as how the United States is dominated by Christians, it's unlikely.

Nobody even mentioned the plastic Christmas trees. Hundreds of years from now, a small group of primitive people will look back on their ancestors with confusion and shame, and they'll have the still-intact plastic Christmas trees to prove it.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: AttheGates1996 on December 09, 2007, 06:02:55 PM
Quote
In the US, Christmas is being replaced by "the holidays", something that people of all religions and beliefs can celebrate (spend money). To Christians, this is a travesty, but to hipster "religious atheists", it's great because now they can be let in on the fun (get belligerent drunk at the office christmas party) without feeling guilty.

They really needed another excuse to spend money and get wasted?

Keeping it Christmas might have preserved just a little bit of the cultural integrity, but seeing as how the United States is dominated by Christians, it's unlikely.

Nobody even mentioned the plastic Christmas trees. Hundreds of years from now, a small group of primitive people will look back on their ancestors with confusion and shame, and they'll have the still-intact plastic Christmas trees to prove it.


I agree with a lot of this. More and more people are becoming atheist or questioning Christianity simply because they want to go screw some sluts or man whores.

I also agree that Christmas is slowly becoming commercialized, but luckily at a younger age I saw more of the actual spirit of this time of year... this is why I'm happy with memories from the past.

Also, I don't understand why atheists complain about hearing Merry Christmas but don't expect it to insult the majority of the U.S. to not be able to say and hear Merry Christmas. It should be the thought that counts, but now it's a bunch of fags starting drama because they don't want to follow the morals associated with Christianity which supports my above statement.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Prospero on December 10, 2007, 01:29:05 PM
Quote
it's a bunch of fags starting drama because they don't want to follow the morals associated with Christianity which supports my above statement.


I believe that if it would be celebrated properly, Christmas would be a very respectable holiday. Its true values and objectives seem to be family rejoicing, resting and meditation. I think how this vision does not fit with people behaviours is what is being debated here, not just "a bunch of fags dramatizing".
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Divus_de_Mortuus on December 25, 2007, 11:46:41 AM
I hate that "happy holidays" crusade by whiney liberal atheist fruitcakes as much as the "Christ back in Christmas" crusade by the conservative evangelical talk-radio listening drones.

We gave presents, saw family, and spoiled the kids. My five year old stepson got some transformers and things he doesn't need, but he also got learning games, sports equipment and other things he does. Our infant daughter got tons of clothes and bright soft toys for her to chew on and play with. I think a middle ground can be found between blind consumerism and gift buying.

And I was amazingly surprised that last night every single Wal-Mart and McDonalds in town was actually closed.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Heydrich on December 25, 2007, 05:12:05 PM
Quote
I hate that "happy holidays" crusade by whiney liberal atheist fruitcakes as much as the "Christ back in Christmas" crusade by the conservative evangelical talk-radio listening drones.

We gave presents, saw family, and spoiled the kids. My five year old stepson got some transformers and things he doesn't need, but he also got learning games, sports equipment and other things he does. Our infant daughter got tons of clothes and bright soft toys for her to chew on and play with. I think a middle ground can be found between blind consumerism and gift buying.

And I was amazingly surprised that last night every single Wal-Mart and McDonalds in town was actually closed.



Well there's a refreshingly sensible post!  



Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: Resurrected on December 25, 2007, 08:15:57 PM
Eh, my parents were nice enough to buy me an acoustic guitar. Music is cool.

My Christmas wasn't to commercialized. Just fun hanging out with friends and family.
Title: Re: Merry Christmas
Post by: ASBO on December 26, 2007, 04:13:31 PM
Quote
Most of us live in Christian families.


Something warm is hitting your face,
Softly, like rain,
But warm like a baby's cheeks
Or the first mists of summer
Scented faintly of fungi from those old forest paths
Walked by lovers years before
Things got so complicated,
An acrid vinegar cream of mushroom smell.

Something warm is hitting your face,
And Jesus stands over you, while Devils murmur,
"Yul is the holiday, and it predates these saps, fag."