100% Metal Forum (Death Metal and Black Metal)

Metal => Interzone => Topic started by: Pathologist on May 12, 2008, 11:07:15 AM

Title: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: Pathologist on May 12, 2008, 11:07:15 AM
 Proponents of "positive" music (http://dovesong.com/positive_music/)
I simply love how they bash heavy metal for being "negative" music, when the only thing they really know is garbage like Nine Inch Nails and Nirvana.
Maybe the ANUS ought to shut these yuppies up?
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: Apocalyptic Raves on May 12, 2008, 03:31:31 PM
They've only looked at metal from the surface and lumped it in with the rest of the shitty music that infests angsty young teenagers minds...

If only taken at face value, metal is horrible. It can barely be called music, it's scary, it's ugly, and it bashes your head in, so to speak.

Don't take it as an insult to metal, this article has some good points, they just don't know any goddamned better.
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: Dave on May 12, 2008, 04:14:40 PM
This doesn't look like anything more than "my music is better than your music" bullshit.
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: Prospero on May 12, 2008, 05:01:26 PM
Listening to both "Ode to Joy" and Burzum, for example, allows you to further explore the broad spectrum of human emotions, which is something constructive. No music is positive nor negative in itself, it all revolves around the listener, it is him who shall make his experience something positive or negative.
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: shadowmystic on May 13, 2008, 12:43:04 AM
Quote
Listening to both "Ode to Joy" and Burzum, for example, allows you to further explore the broad spectrum of human emotions, which is something constructive. No music is positive nor negative in itself, it all revolves around the listener, it is him who shall make his experience something positive or negative.


Not so, any work of art has qualities which are completely independant of any observer.  In the case of music what the listener experiences is dependant on them only to the extent that they may not be capable of perceiving the esoteric, or inward nature of some music.  Metal tries to be purely esoteric, its exoteric aspects tend to come from the inferior bands which then attract unqualified fans to the genuine bands.  This is why it has a smaller fan base than something like classical, which in its day was capable of being 'popular' music, and still satisfying the needs of intellectual men.
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: Werewolf on May 13, 2008, 03:13:02 PM
"Negative" emotions in metal: Anger, Hate, Depression, Loss, Melancholy

"Positive": Proud, Asserive, Triumphant

Metal contains several positive emotions, but none of them are 'happy', and as such metal is characterized as negative music a little too much.
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: Apocalyptic Raves on May 13, 2008, 05:13:03 PM
Metal is more an expression of meta-good is what you're saying. By growing the fuck up and acknowledging the bad we can construct our own good out of the world. Whereas "positive" music is just cute puppies and rainbows made out of MDMA pills; a distraction from the harsh realities of life.
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: death metal black metal on May 17, 2008, 06:19:22 PM
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When we use the term positive to describe music, we are using it to describe music that has beneficial qualities and is emotionally and spiritually uplifting, perhaps even healing.


Typical humanism, a form of denial. If we filter out all negative, we can live on in a form of heaven called happy feelings land, and reality will be far, far away.
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: antithetikal on May 18, 2008, 08:15:45 AM
positive and negative, good and bad, not the same...
Perhaps metal music is negative, But by being the way it is, it shows up another way for us to think.
Denial... we deny the (fake) "reality"put in front of our eyes and replace it by a completely and new reality.
From this negativism a new light is born.
Nihilism...
Considering something negative as being bad is one of the worse mistakes of our modern society.
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: pagan980938127 on May 18, 2008, 09:16:02 AM
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Typical humanism, a form of denial. If we filter out all negative, we can live on in a form of heaven called happy feelings land, and reality will be far, far away.

Wait.  Do we listen to metal because it makes us feel like shit?  At least I do not.  Yet we know that if all we wanted was music to make us feel good, there are certainly "easier" forms than metal (see the above website.)

It seems the difference is in the challenging nature of extreme music, as opposed to the affirming nature of pop music. I find the challenge exhilarating and spiritually uplifting - indeed positive.

Maybe positive is too ambiguous a word for these concepts.
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: Christ Fucking Malarkey on May 18, 2008, 10:02:43 AM
I prefer to listen to music in which one has to work towards its full comprehension. "Positive" music by the contemporary definition seems to be the stuff that folks bask in passively, whether it be the Beatles during a quiet, neighborhood barbeque, or whatever stuff my peers listen to during partys nowadays. The same principle applies: let it do its work in the background, like a conniving call girl on your boss's balls mid-afternoons every Thursday. (Yet you wonder why you didn't get that pay raise last quarter?)

Metal and classical music require quite a bit of engagement, and it doesn't afford the same carefree atmosphere that so-called "positive" music does. Because it demands our attention in a society that prides itself in freedom of choice--and most folks prefer not to be faced with more profound levels of reality during their experience--these two artforms are considered intrusive and offensive by many. Note also, that popular music functions equally, if not moreso, on radiating outwards and initiating social contact as it does on engaging dialogue with the listener.
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: Dave on May 18, 2008, 10:04:48 AM
All music that people choose to listen to is "positive". They wouldn't listen to it if they didn't enjoy it at some level. Melancholic or angry music can be comforting to some people, for example. It's naive to think that "negative" music is not beneficial to the people that listen to it, that site is elitist nonsense from people who miss the good ol' days ("During the early 1950ís, every song that you heard on the radio was positive.") that probably never existed in the first place.
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: Bereft on May 19, 2008, 12:19:39 AM
Quote
I prefer to listen to music in which one has to work towards its full comprehension. "Positive" music by the contemporary definition seems to be the stuff that folks bask in passively, whether it be the Beatles during a quiet, neighborhood barbeque, or whatever stuff my peers listen to during partys nowadays. The same principle applies: let it do its work in the background, like a conniving call girl on your boss's balls mid-afternoons every Thursday. (Yet you wonder why you didn't get that pay raise last quarter?)

Metal and classical music require quite a bit of engagement, and it doesn't afford the same carefree atmosphere that so-called "positive" music does. Because it demands our attention in a society that prides itself in freedom of choice--and most folks prefer not to be faced with more profound levels of reality during their experience--these two artforms are considered intrusive and offensive by many. Note also, that popular music functions equally, if not moreso, on radiating outwards and initiating social contact as it does on engaging dialogue with the listener.


Very true - good metal and classical demands much from its listeners, but it gives much in return. Its complexity and intents usually aren't obvious, so it eludes those(morons, hipsters) who only scratch the surface. It may not always be polite or tell you what you want to hear, but it's honest and unapologetic.

Inversely, the crowd wants familiar themes and instant gratification, meaning instead of art you have a product dumbed down to a base level where similarities become obvious and differences are negligible or non-existent. In this respect, it functions much like a microcosm of the larger current political and social scene.

Perhaps a different interpretation could be:

Morbid Angel/Burzum -> aristocratic/fascist -> ascending -> positive

ABBA/Pantera -> democratic/egalitarian -> descending -> negative
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: we hope you die on May 20, 2008, 01:20:34 PM
You can compare it to eating heathily. Some healthy foods may not taste as nice or offer immediate gratification, but they are better for you in the long run and we lead to far greater happiness then the 2 minutes of eating a chocolate bar say.
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: ASBO on May 20, 2008, 06:38:36 PM
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All music that people choose to listen to is "positive".  


They mean positive in a propagandistic sense, although the original article was so incoherent the word "mean" may be misplaced.

They want music that emphasizes the positive at the expense of the negative, and so facilitates denial, distraction, and surrogate (vicarious) realities.

A summary:

"Don't interrupt my masturbation with the knowledge that the mental object of my stroking, in real life, has AIDS."
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on May 24, 2008, 02:19:34 PM
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I prefer to listen to music in which one has to work towards its full comprehension. "Positive" music by the contemporary definition seems to be the stuff that folks bask in passively, whether it be the Beatles during a quiet, neighborhood barbeque, or whatever stuff my peers listen to during partys nowadays. The same principle applies: let it do its work in the background, like a conniving call girl on your boss's balls mid-afternoons every Thursday. (Yet you wonder why you didn't get that pay raise last quarter?)

Metal and classical music require quite a bit of engagement, and it doesn't afford the same carefree atmosphere that so-called "positive" music does. Because it demands our attention in a society that prides itself in freedom of choice--and most folks prefer not to be faced with more profound levels of reality during their experience--these two artforms are considered intrusive and offensive by many. Note also, that popular music functions equally, if not moreso, on radiating outwards and initiating social contact as it does on engaging dialogue with the listener.


However much jazz one must be engaged in, and some jazz is simply not suitable for passive listening. I think we need to create a more whole description in order for jazz to be excluded.
Title: Re: So-called Positive and Negative Music
Post by: My AIDS, Your Arse on May 26, 2008, 05:21:04 PM
Ha, the site said that heavy music is disturbing to the nervous system.

By "disturbing", they probably mean that it actually causes thought? From my understanding, thought outside of the established norm can be disturbing.

It also mentions that it causes stress? And stress is a factor created by conflict. People need conflict. Constructive conflict. Why else do kids get caught up in little things, like when you accidentally scuff their new Reeboks or K-Swiss?