100% Metal Forum (Death Metal and Black Metal)

Metal => Metal => Topic started by: Wolfgang on February 20, 2010, 02:52:49 PM

Title: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on February 20, 2010, 02:52:49 PM
listening now, first track pretty good honestly.

If this song is any indication on the rest of the album, if new Slayer got praised around here, this will cause a flood of ejaculate matter.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on February 20, 2010, 03:02:05 PM
It can be found in the audiofile section.

I like what I am hearing so far, but you know how deceptive a first listen can be. One thing that is clear from the get go is this isn't a Dissection situation where the modern shit resembles a recent style and suffers from misdirection and a loss of ideals.

Other opinions on this keep harping back on bad guitar playing, but what I am hearing sounds so far like he is staying well within himself. Those opinions are typically originating among those who don't understand what Burzum was really about anyway. As if the guitar playing on early Burzum was great or anything. It's understandable he may need an album to find his legs technically, in any event.

I'm going to spend the day with this album.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on February 20, 2010, 03:39:33 PM
I just did.  One of the best days of my life.  Spent most of the day on the train, staring out across the semi-industrial/suburban landscapes through the window, listening to Belus on repeat, and generally being stricken by an indefinable sense of absolute awe.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: roshan on February 20, 2010, 10:59:38 PM
It's just after lunch here, and I fell asleep a third of the way through Glemselens Elv. Continuing the album now. There are still some beautiful  Burzumesque melodies (that strangely sound more like less inspired imitation bands like I Shalt Become than Burzum), but overall this album is just a disorganized amalgam of the worst of Ukrainian droney black metal, North American hispsteresque bands like Aggaloch, shoegaze bands like Alcest and a healthy dose of norsecore.

Utter crap.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on February 21, 2010, 12:23:02 AM
Ten to one Varg doesn't even know what half those bands you just assbabbled even are.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: braum on February 21, 2010, 12:51:53 AM
Great, now when I talk fondly of Burzum I have to clarify "old Burzum."
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: My AIDS, Your Arse on February 21, 2010, 12:54:20 AM
I hope this doesn't put anyone off from enjoying the album or kill their own hopes or alter their own opinions...

but Belus really is Diet Burzum: I was assuming that on this album he'd really expand on what he'd made before, but instead Varg just retread the tired, old beaten path, and did it hurriedly so. He's pulled a Metallica, sans-dead bassist.

It's still very much palatable like our old Burzum, but, like diet soda, do I really want to consume this toxic cancer-causing shit? Is it really rewarding in the end, or did I just waste 40 minutes of my life again playing something I don't really, honestly enjoy?

The riffs are basic, droning and minimal -- typical Burzum Filosofem style -- but so are the entire arrangements of the songs, and that's where I am left un-awed. I've listened to post-80's pop punk with more musical drive and ambition than this, and that's not saying much. lol

It pained me to listen to this because there were so many possibilities in this music, and they were completely wasted on Lego-tower pop music arrangement. Hot Topic will eat this shit up though.

Filosofem was a step down from Hvis Lyset Tar Oss in terms of dimensional development versus droning repetition, where Filosofem relied much more on the latter, but still ventured off enough to paint a big-enough picture. From what I remember, since I stopped listening hours ago, Belus relies almost entirely on droning repetition -- something you'd expect from someone who doesn't grasp musical form very well, which is surprising, because Varg seemed to intuit form expertly on all his previous releases.

There's this concise, droning patterned repetition in Filosofem, but this repetition is encapsulated in chunky phases and are arranged accordingly -- not for the ADD-ridden or the impatient. This is already really minimalistic form. But dumb it down a little more, and you got "twee pop music", like the reviewers around here would put it.

The aesthetic is refined; nice and cute and sparkly. Beneath this wrapping we find little, however. It's like a hamster wheel journey through a scrolling forest wallpaper.

All those things said, if Varg doesn't remake his keyboard albums into something really amazing on metal instrumentation in the near future, someone else should take the liberty of doing so, since it's clear he barely even cares about his music anymore or has the spirit for it; he's got other things on his mind now.

Whether he was influenced by contemporary bands, or whether his artistic mentality took him to the same path of least resistance as everyone and their mother's BM bands arrived through, we don't know: All we know is that they both arrived at the exact same place, regardless of means.[/2cents]
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: AnHero on February 21, 2010, 01:17:27 PM
A Comparative Review:

Whereas Daudi Baldrs sounded like an even more repetitively structured Filosofem with more melody and played on keyboard...
...Belus sounds like the 1or 2 riff per song Hildskjalf with more rhythm and played on guitar.

If you liked Hildskjalf, how do you find this album less interesting? The way I see it, they are either both good or both bland. I think they're both pretty bland. This isn't a Metal FAIL as we've used the term before because this isn't a sudden decrease in quality like other albums considered to be fail, this is a trend over the last 3
4
5
since the self-titled.

Also something to note might be the amount of album-level organization on Belus. The first couple were more like collections of songs, with HLTO, Filosofem, Daudi Baldrs and (Well, I don't know about Hildskjalf) being more like a continuous story, and literally a story in the case of the keyboard albums. Album-level organization was a positive trend for Burzum at least until now, but I don't hear much of that on Belus.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: More Celt Than Sassenach on February 21, 2010, 03:38:20 PM
By the sounds of it Varg had intended this to be a collection and reworking of older material rather than a continual narrative.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Arctic Sun on February 21, 2010, 06:09:51 PM
I was going to say that "Demo Comp." would probably cool some tempers as far as this release is concerned, and might expose how out of control tempers have apparently gotten.  I don't care if Varg released a shitty album.  He did the same with two before it imo, and never bugged anyone with anything as far as marketing is concerned.

I figure it came out because he had some old material sitting around and he knew how to play it.  There's also obviously some intrigue in what's done behind the scenes, but I doubt that had anything to do with it.  If it did then why not sign with a huge label and absorb press left and right?

Overall I think you people are just overreacting.  If he never came out with another album a crowd of people would dust off pitchforks for that too.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Nimbostratus on February 21, 2010, 09:19:33 PM
I was completely dissapointed by Belus at first, now after more hearings I found that Glemmselens Elv, Kaimadalthas Nestigning and perhaps Keliohesten are good songs, I find these above the criticism made so far about the album.

Belus Dod and Sverdans sound extremely cliché, Morgenroede has a beautiful A B that goes nowhere but to a drone that lasts through Belus Tilbakekomst.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Stars Down To Earth on February 22, 2010, 12:10:32 AM
I find the album to be somewhat of an anachronism, where it would of made much more sense 15 years ago. Yes it is good, but it's hard to distinguish it from what we've had since then (Thorns (although this was already available), I Shalt Become, Manes, Drudkh etc, I find are very similar in at least terms of aesthetics). Conceptually and aesthetically the album is beautiful, riffs are typical of Burzum; interesting and at times moving, but there's songs which lead to no where and become overly repetitious ("didn't I just hear this segment of the song 2 minutes ago?"). Like I previously mentioned, it's so similar to a lot of releases in the past decade of black metal that it would probably go unnoticed if it were not a Burzum release.

Personally I enjoy the direction bands like Burzum and I Shalt Become are going, I find it more mature artistically and progressive as a genre in moving away from the cliches of rock music (stereotyped song structure, satanism, racism, childish imagery, scenesterism and other forms of low-brow culture) but their latest albums just aren't exceptional as their earliest releases were and while containing highly memorable riffs, lack any coherent direction. They've got the right idea, but they just aren't producing the quality of work we expect from them.

Also, I find a lot of accusations of selling out or sucking up to the label inaccurate, I think in this case Varg's biggest mistake was not recognising the flaws in his work and the fact that it obviously isn't in the same league as the earlier albums, but of course, once a studio has paid for a recording of an album, I imagine it would be incredibly difficult for someone in Varg's position to say "No, I don't think this is up to par". Pragmatism triumphs idealism in some cases unfortunately.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on February 22, 2010, 01:23:00 AM
Quote from: Varg Vikernes
"If I can make you dream when listening to this album, I believe I have done a good job"

Do people never remember that his albums are meant to put you into a deep, almost sleep-like trance, from which real sleep is easily attainable?  Because every single Burzum album does that to me, if I listen to it all the way through, and have nothing else to do.  Belus is no exception.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Arctic Sun on February 22, 2010, 01:59:33 AM
Quote
I find the album to be somewhat of an anachronism, where it would of made much more sense 15 years ago.

You mean when the material was written?

I have a hard time stomaching complaints about the album sounding like a rip-off.  Of what?  Himself?  And then there's the line about messing up some logical order of Burzum material, as if anyone would have intuitively known what came out when without prior knowledge.

Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: E on February 22, 2010, 02:14:55 AM
By the sounds of it Varg had intended this to be a collection and reworking of older material

He calls it 'cherry picking' in some interview. Deep inside he must be a cynical man.

rather than a continual narrative.

Why, then, the emphasis on thematic uniformity?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Arctic Sun on February 22, 2010, 02:26:59 AM
That's what I was getting at.  There's no "narrative" to dissect. 

Zeroing in on a feeling and representing a movement that does the same is more apt.  His albums have all been to that end, and some (including this one) have been a bit further off the mark for comfort.  But I'd also say those keyboard albums were exponentially worse than this, at least when the over-saturation of the scene - which he's largely responsible for, by the way - is taken into account.

All in all I don't think it was marketed as anything special, and it's not.  Maybe there should have been more emphasis on the release acting as a collection of unreleased tracks, which it is.  At the very least there would most likely be less sensationalism and "the sky is falling" type commentary, although the thought that people have to be fed that information in order to keep from acting retarded is...not good.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Stars Down To Earth on February 22, 2010, 03:46:50 AM
Quote
I find the album to be somewhat of an anachronism, where it would of made much more sense 15 years ago.

You mean when the material was written?

I have a hard time stomaching complaints about the album sounding like a rip-off.  Of what?  Himself?  And then there's the line about messing up some logical order of Burzum material, as if anyone would have intuitively known what came out when without prior knowledge.
No, I don't think he is ripping anyone off, but aesthetically Belus has been done by the aforementioned bands, where as Hvis/Filosofem at the time would of been unique. It is akin to Darwin publishing a book on Natural Selection years after Wallace but still expecting to be praised for his originality.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Arctic Sun on February 22, 2010, 04:21:38 AM
Show me any example of Belus being advertised as anything but compilation material.  I could be wrong, but I think you're all over reacting.

At any rate I don't know where all this rage is coming from, or who thought it'd be a great idea to add distortion to those keyboard albums and then probably fill toilet bowls over that.  I just think people are bored, and if that's the case it's obvious.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Stars Down To Earth on February 22, 2010, 05:17:43 AM
How is recycling old riffs compilation material?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: nous on February 22, 2010, 05:29:38 AM
Show me any example of Belus being advertised as anything but compilation material.  I could be wrong, but I think you're all over reacting.

"My ambition with "Belus" is to create something I - and hopefully others too - can listen to for years and years to come without ever growing tired of it, and at the same time to share with my audience the experience of getting to know Belus, as he might have been perceived by the ancient Europeans.
"If I can make you dream when listening to this album, I believe I have done a good job".
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Umbrage on February 22, 2010, 06:46:18 AM
I only like a few songs from the album. I don't like Belus as much as Burzum's older works but I'm not disappointed either. I already thought Filosofem was only half a good album, I think the Rundgang track is boring and usually skip the second half of the album. I thought it was disappointing when Varg stopped using the high shreeks, I can appreciate the songs on Filosofem but the vocals sound like Ministry. On the other hand I'm not sure how tracks like Daughters of Firmament would have sounded with traditional Varg shreeks but anyway that's just some background info why Belus doesn't disappoint me that much.

On Belus I dislike Glemselens Elv because it's just a boring sugary track. It feels like he tried to translate the same atmosphere as the softers songs on Hlidskjalf into a metal song but it completely fails imo. It's too soft and just boring, like mentioned elsewhere it's just flowery wallpaper. Sverddans is another offender, it sounds like a joke track. This is what I miss most in Belus: a sense of earnestness. Kaimadalthas' Nedstigning is amusing, it's cool hearing Varg sing in a clear voice in this song but it offers nothing of what makes the older works so great. The only tracks that save the album for me are the last two tracks (or one track and one outro, I prefer to see them both as one track) Those, for me at least, at last capture that feeling that I expect from Burzum (having felt that in all his other albums including the ambient ones) A feeling of seriousness. With Belus it feels like the epic has been replaced with pretentiousness, the fact that Varg took some older songs of lesser quality and then present Belus as a great album because of it's subject matter says enough for me. The drama with the title change said too much already.

What I'm really curious about by now is: who wants more? It should be no secret that this album is indeed just a test, a new debut if you will. If this album proves to be (or sell?) successful chances are that mister Vikernes will create more albums. Perhaps he will put more effort in those and not all is lost, or perhaps it will turn into what Darkthrone is now. Time will tell. At the moment I'm reluctant to write off Burzum completely. I just hope he quits trying to make concept albums like he did on the ambient works, it worked then but it fails on Belus and that's sad because he really seemed to want to send out a positive message with this album.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: nous on February 22, 2010, 07:06:05 AM
On Belus I dislike Glemselens Elv because it's just a boring sugary track. It feels like he tried to translate the same atmosphere as the softers songs on Hlidskjalf into a metal song but it completely fails imo. It's too soft and just boring, like mentioned elsewhere it's just flowery wallpaper.

Sure it is a "soft" track, I agree with you there. But I don't see the soft=sugary connection, and how is it flowery? Really, maybe you forgot that since 1996, nobody in black metal has come up with a comparable riff? (And yes, I'm serious.)
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: druidakoda on February 22, 2010, 08:02:42 AM
I think it's good. It helps being a newcomer and having been waiting for this for one month, not 15 years. Lets just say It's obvious he didn't spend his time inside reading music theory or trying to print his soul into sound.

The introduction is a nice touch I thought, expressing the boredom and monotony of prison. I'm not quite sure how to take Kaimadalthas' Nedstigning and Sverddans though, it sounds like Red Harvest. The rest are pretty much to be expected; a decent extension of the Burzum sound.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on February 22, 2010, 01:36:17 PM
I like Kaimadalthas' Nedstigning.  I don't know why others don't.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: deadjew on February 22, 2010, 02:10:51 PM
Hey, I just figured out that Den Hvite Guden is the second best Burzum EP, right after Aske.
It all makes sense once you realize that it's a perfectly good reject compilation with Drudkh tracks inserted by the label, in order to convince the kids that if Varg had not been incarcerated, he would have recorded more albums in the vein of the timeless classics, like Abyssic Hate and Wolves in the Throne Room.
So, to break it down, the Den Hvite Guden EP probably looks like this:
1. Belus' Død
2. Keliohesten
3. Sverddans
4. Glemselens Elv
...though frankly, the last one was obviously stolen from a Summoning Oath Bound-era bootleg and re-recorded in a half-assed manner.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Arctic Sun on February 22, 2010, 02:38:18 PM
Show me any example of Belus being advertised as anything but compilation material.  I could be wrong, but I think you're all over reacting.

"My ambition with "Belus" is to create something I - and hopefully others too - can listen to for years and years to come without ever growing tired of it, and at the same time to share with my audience the experience of getting to know Belus, as he might have been perceived by the ancient Europeans.
"If I can make you dream when listening to this album, I believe I have done a good job".


Haha, I stand corrected!  But I seem to remember an emphasis that was placed on all the material being from the past, and everything being pieced together from the cutting room floor or whatever.  Maybe I read too much into it.  

Anyway, the album is listenable, but it never had that age old "this must be the heaviest shit we've ever done" treatment, so I don't feel cheated or anything.  At the very worst I'd analyze the event as people hoping for something - especially considering those terrible ambient albums - and then Varg releasing older material because it was on hand.  The premise seemed noble, but what else can you say unless you're bored and angry or whatever?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sammaellofi on February 22, 2010, 02:55:58 PM
Yeah at least no one hyped it as "This is Det Som Engang Var meets the ambient albums and a  complete return to form" like it would have been with anyone else at the helm.


So far the reviews make it look like Burzum's version of Panzerfaust.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Arctic Sun on February 22, 2010, 06:24:59 PM
Well I mean there's no sense in giving the album a nod, like as if it's acceptable for bad albums coming in print.  But on the other hand it was never advertised to be anything besides demo material - and I don't recall there being any advertisements anyhow - so it's difficult to read all kinds of hard-hitting reviews of something that apparently was never intended to be monumental in the first place.

Just consider perspective while you're listening, is all I'm saying.  No free passes, but no whining for no reason either.  Something to chew on if you've got time.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: scourge on February 22, 2010, 06:59:43 PM
As with many things, we can have more or we can have better. It doesn't seem to be the case with metal that both happen together. When abundance is on the rise, quality dies out. Perhaps for metal at this stage it is better if no albums are recorded than if only okay albums are released.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Nimbostratus on February 22, 2010, 08:06:55 PM

On Belus I dislike Glemselens Elv because it's just a boring sugary track. It feels like he tried to translate the same atmosphere as the softers songs on Hlidskjalf into a metal song but it completely fails imo. [,,,]

 Kaimadalthas' Nedstigning is amusing, it's cool hearing Varg sing in a clear voice in this song but it offers nothing of what makes the older works so great.


Glemselens Elv has unity and development, it doesn't matter if it is too soft.

Kaimadalthas Nedstingning has non-cliché riffing actually, I won't say that it is "amusing" but shining in a sense that it is not afraid of showing a brighter face of black-metal.

I like Keliohesten because the melody is very solemn, and the variations on it reminds me to Hvis Lysset Tar Oss, the song, altough obviously not that good.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Arctic Sun on February 22, 2010, 08:47:16 PM
I find it hard to get upset over an instrumental character in the development of black metal clouding what's now a shoulder-to-shoulder scene by releasing material written when the movement actually existed.   This is especially considering that people have been clamoring for more Burzum, and what he delivered was written back when everything was still legit. 

No matter what happened people were bound to feel important and editorialize, and with that in mind releasing old material doesn't strike me as a bad move on Varg's part.  Because I think we all know there would have been a never ending "what could have been" temper tantrum had the guy done nothing.  Even now people are speculating about the worthiness of adding distortion to those fucking ambient albums.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Tancred Hauteville on February 22, 2010, 09:42:29 PM
I dont mind the album so far.However, I am unsure how to take some tracks, as i find a few of them juvenille. I see the pro's and con's of the album that everyone is talking about, my one complaint so far is the overuse of the melodic guitar sweeps that have now been done to death and leave pretty much no impression on this listener anymore, haha. In general while listening to this album i often catch myself thinking "sounds like filosofem, but not as good" or "man this makes me want to listen to other burzum albums".

I do admire his sublime sense of melody, and their are certainly some highlights on the album.

Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on February 23, 2010, 12:07:40 AM
People who like Belus: listen solely to early Black Metal, perhaps even only first wave bands;

People who don't like Belus: listen to some or a lot of "new Black Metal", or have listened to it in the past.

So Vikernes stumbles across a good thing on Filosofem, with Jesus Dod.  Then later bands like Drudkh or whatever (I don't really know this, I'm just assuming) decide to use the same kinds of techniques to create their own atmospheres, but they're "Pagan Metal" instead, so they don't make it as "evil" as Burzum was.  Then, a decade or so after people start overdoing Filosofem, Vikernes gets out of jail, and records a load of songs that he wrote more than fifteen years beforehand, arranging them in a "Filosofem meets Hvis Lyset Tar Oss" manner (as described by himself), with a Pagan twist given the concept of the album, which combination, from the perspective of someone who doesn't listen to new Black Metal, is interesting, even surprising, at times, and definitely "extremely good".  To someone who's spent far too much time listening to crappy modern "Black Metal", the album sounds tired and repetitive, since, over a huge number of bands, and an even greater number of songs, they've heard it all before.

This begs the question (again): why do people not look at the context?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: nous on February 23, 2010, 01:44:10 AM
To someone who's spent far too much time listening to crappy modern "Black Metal", the album sounds tired and repetitive, since, over a huge number of bands, and an even greater number of songs, they've heard it all before.

This is precisely the point with the similarities. Although it's not that one could have really heard it all before--the melodies, the composition. We heard other bands imitate the style of Burzum, but they were never very good at it. I'm not going to hold this against the new album. Anyway, whatever be the real quality of this album, the huge "defecation" remains irritating. I'm reminded here of the Frithjof Schuon quote in the Ants thread (http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/index.php/topic,8072.msg43104.html#msg43104).
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Umbrage on February 23, 2010, 04:24:35 AM
People who like Belus: listen solely to early Black Metal, perhaps even only first wave bands;

People who don't like Belus: listen to some or a lot of "new Black Metal", or have listened to it in the past.

So Vikernes stumbles across a good thing on Filosofem, with Jesus Dod.  Then later bands like Drudkh or whatever (I don't really know this, I'm just assuming) decide to use the same kinds of techniques to create their own atmospheres, but they're "Pagan Metal" instead, so they don't make it as "evil" as Burzum was.  Then, a decade or so after people start overdoing Filosofem, Vikernes gets out of jail, and records a load of songs that he wrote more than fifteen years beforehand, arranging them in a "Filosofem meets Hvis Lyset Tar Oss" manner (as described by himself), with a Pagan twist given the concept of the album, which combination, from the perspective of someone who doesn't listen to new Black Metal, is interesting, even surprising, at times, and definitely "extremely good".  To someone who's spent far too much time listening to crappy modern "Black Metal", the album sounds tired and repetitive, since, over a huge number of bands, and an even greater number of songs, they've heard it all before.

This begs the question (again): why do people not look at the context?

Excuse me? I explained in a previous post I don't even like Filosofem that much and you accuse critics of Belus of listening to a lot of "new black metal"? You just made yourself look infinitely ridiculous in my view. I never liked any of the "bands that overdid Filosofem" because I don't even like Filosofem that much, so why would I even bother with the imitators? I'll just go ahead and say that ambient/drone black metal is a complete failure in general. Fuck Paysage d'Hiver, Forest (Rus), Xasthur and all those bands. I never liked them because they were too boring for me. I like old Bathory, Darkthrone, Beherit, Emperor, etc. Raw and epic stuff without boring "I make music that makes people fall asleep" gimmicks. The post-96 BM I listen to is solely because I don't want to give up on the genre but I don't like it as much as the old stuff and I sure as hell don't listen to it as much.

I might as well argue that "people only like Belus because they're less than 30 years old" and I'd make as much sense as you did. If you want to defend the album go ahead but don't talk nonsense, you're not doing Belus or yourself any favors.

Glemselens Elv has unity and development, it doesn't matter if it is too soft.

Kaimadalthas Nedstingning has non-cliché riffing actually, I won't say that it is "amusing" but shining in a sense that it is not afraid of showing a brighter face of black-metal.

I like Keliohesten because the melody is very solemn, and the variations on it reminds me to Hvis Lysset Tar Oss, the song, altough obviously not that good.

I like music that grabs me by the balls and drags me across the room (not in a Slipknot kind of way but like old Mayhem, Darkthrone or Demoncy) I think Varg is correct for saying that Belus isn't a black metal album. For me it does matter that it's too soft, music is supposed to evoke certain feelings etc. If it doesn't evoke those feelings then it simply doesn't, format has nothing to do with the feelings that are in a song. If people talk nonsense in three different languages they're still talking nonsense, the same can be applied to music.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: indjaseemun on February 23, 2010, 04:43:54 AM
I haven't listened 100%, but I don't think it's bad. Just inferior
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on February 23, 2010, 08:12:21 AM
People who like Belus: listen solely to early Black Metal, perhaps even only first wave bands;

People who don't like Belus: listen to some or a lot of "new Black Metal", or have listened to it in the past.

So Vikernes stumbles across a good thing on Filosofem, with Jesus Dod.  Then later bands like Drudkh or whatever (I don't really know this, I'm just assuming) decide to use the same kinds of techniques to create their own atmospheres, but they're "Pagan Metal" instead, so they don't make it as "evil" as Burzum was.  Then, a decade or so after people start overdoing Filosofem, Vikernes gets out of jail, and records a load of songs that he wrote more than fifteen years beforehand, arranging them in a "Filosofem meets Hvis Lyset Tar Oss" manner (as described by himself), with a Pagan twist given the concept of the album, which combination, from the perspective of someone who doesn't listen to new Black Metal, is interesting, even surprising, at times, and definitely "extremely good".  To someone who's spent far too much time listening to crappy modern "Black Metal", the album sounds tired and repetitive, since, over a huge number of bands, and an even greater number of songs, they've heard it all before.

This begs the question (again): why do people not look at the context?

Excuse me? I explained in a previous post I don't even like Filosofem that much and you accuse critics of Belus of listening to a lot of "new black metal"? You just made yourself look infinitely ridiculous in my view. I never liked any of the "bands that overdid Filosofem" because I don't even like Filosofem that much, so why would I even bother with the imitators? I'll just go ahead and say that ambient/drone black metal is a complete failure in general. Fuck Paysage d'Hiver, Forest (Rus), Xasthur and all those bands. I never liked them because they were too boring for me. I like old Bathory, Darkthrone, Beherit, Emperor, etc. Raw and epic stuff without boring "I make music that makes people fall asleep" gimmicks. The post-96 BM I listen to is solely because I don't want to give up on the genre but I don't like it as much as the old stuff and I sure as hell don't listen to it as much.

I might as well argue that "people only like Belus because they're less than 30 years old" and I'd make as much sense as you did. If you want to defend the album go ahead but don't talk nonsense, you're not doing Belus or yourself any favors.

Exception to the rule.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sammaellofi on February 23, 2010, 10:38:39 AM
Ok I listened.


It's true that first 4 tracks are expendable and not even really worth the time to listen to them.  The 5th tack was at least decent late 80s metal disguised as pagan lord of the rings worship, so not half bad.   

The last three tracks are pure Burzum.  The production and delivery, which were a thorn in the side for the first tracks suddenly come together to form a strong Burzum voice.  During these tracks, I no longer had to apologize and make excuses for the albums, because it was Burzum.  Why should I apologize for the greatest metal band of all time?   Anus has only failed in noticing the potential of these tracks, instead competing for the best metaphor about how much someone they claim created "godly albums" sucks.  If the intelligent aren't listening, why should anyone bother making anything good?

As far as complaints of repetition go, yes EVERY track is repetitious, but repetition is only a problem depending on what is being repeated.  A lot of good Burzum and early black metal is even more repetitious still, but it never stops the music from being good and often even is part of the message. 

My constructive criticism for Varg is that if you wanted to make a concept album, you should have kept these three tracks underwraps until you had more material, instead of throwing a bunch of Belus lyrics over older work and releasing it all at once.  Alternatively, if your goal was just to release something quickly, then you should have just released an EP of these songs, still a worthy option, but as it stands, if those tracks are indicative of future Burzum compositions, we have nothing to worry about.   
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Umbrage on February 23, 2010, 12:51:02 PM
People who like Belus: listen solely to early Black Metal, perhaps even only first wave bands;

People who don't like Belus: listen to some or a lot of "new Black Metal", or have listened to it in the past.

So Vikernes stumbles across a good thing on Filosofem, with Jesus Dod.  Then later bands like Drudkh or whatever (I don't really know this, I'm just assuming) decide to use the same kinds of techniques to create their own atmospheres, but they're "Pagan Metal" instead, so they don't make it as "evil" as Burzum was.  Then, a decade or so after people start overdoing Filosofem, Vikernes gets out of jail, and records a load of songs that he wrote more than fifteen years beforehand, arranging them in a "Filosofem meets Hvis Lyset Tar Oss" manner (as described by himself), with a Pagan twist given the concept of the album, which combination, from the perspective of someone who doesn't listen to new Black Metal, is interesting, even surprising, at times, and definitely "extremely good".  To someone who's spent far too much time listening to crappy modern "Black Metal", the album sounds tired and repetitive, since, over a huge number of bands, and an even greater number of songs, they've heard it all before.

This begs the question (again): why do people not look at the context?

Excuse me? I explained in a previous post I don't even like Filosofem that much and you accuse critics of Belus of listening to a lot of "new black metal"? You just made yourself look infinitely ridiculous in my view. I never liked any of the "bands that overdid Filosofem" because I don't even like Filosofem that much, so why would I even bother with the imitators? I'll just go ahead and say that ambient/drone black metal is a complete failure in general. Fuck Paysage d'Hiver, Forest (Rus), Xasthur and all those bands. I never liked them because they were too boring for me. I like old Bathory, Darkthrone, Beherit, Emperor, etc. Raw and epic stuff without boring "I make music that makes people fall asleep" gimmicks. The post-96 BM I listen to is solely because I don't want to give up on the genre but I don't like it as much as the old stuff and I sure as hell don't listen to it as much.

I might as well argue that "people only like Belus because they're less than 30 years old" and I'd make as much sense as you did. If you want to defend the album go ahead but don't talk nonsense, you're not doing Belus or yourself any favors.

Exception to the rule.

Allow me to define this whole "Belus discussion" as I see it: Those who are desperately defending the album are all fanboys. Those who are ruthlessly slamming the album are all butthurt fanboys. Everybody choose your side and sharpen your weapons!


Ok I listened.

It's true that first 4 tracks are expendable and not even really worth the time to listen to them.  The 5th tack was at least decent late 80s metal disguised as pagan lord of the rings worship, so not half bad.   

The last three tracks are pure Burzum.  The production and delivery, which were a thorn in the side for the first tracks suddenly come together to form a strong Burzum voice.  During these tracks, I no longer had to apologize and make excuses for the albums, because it was Burzum.  Why should I apologize for the greatest metal band of all time?   Anus has only failed in noticing the potential of these tracks, instead competing for the best metaphor about how much someone they claim created "godly albums" sucks.  If the intelligent aren't listening, why should anyone bother making anything good?

As far as complaints of repetition go, yes EVERY track is repetitious, but repetition is only a problem depending on what is being repeated.  A lot of good Burzum and early black metal is even more repetitious still, but it never stops the music from being good and often even is part of the message. 

My constructive criticism for Varg is that if you wanted to make a concept album, you should have kept these three tracks underwraps until you had more material, instead of throwing a bunch of Belus lyrics over older work and releasing it all at once.  Alternatively, if your goal was just to release something quickly, then you should have just released an EP of these songs, still a worthy option, but as it stands, if those tracks are indicative of future Burzum compositions, we have nothing to worry about.   

Well said. I don't understand the complaints about repetition either. I think it has more to do with the riffs that are being repeated which, for some, make certain tracks a tedious experience. Belus was supposed to be a lighter album. If there are any future Burzum albums I hope they will be dark again, or at least have that feeling of heaviness that simply belongs in metal to separate it from pop music.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on February 23, 2010, 01:09:55 PM
I'd rather be a fanboy than butthurt!

What I love is how the riffs are recalled throughout the album.  The first riffs of track 4, "Kaimadalthas's Descent", recall track 2, "Belus's Death", and track 7, "Morningred", recalls the second ("cleaner") riffs of track 4.  Given the subject matter, this is perfect - Baldr's descent into the underworld calls back memories of his death due to Loki's ploy; subsequently, his return to the living world (the return of Summer, the return of Light) recalls his original descent.

Glemselens Elv has the sound of a river; Sverddans has the sound of a fencing match; Keliohesten has the sound of a charging horse.  The songs fit the concept, no matter how you look at it, and that is as perfect an intellectual stimulation as one can derive from such music.  For me, the emotional stimulation derives from the power of some of the riffs, and the thrill of hearing the connectivity of it all.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Thamuz on February 23, 2010, 03:16:06 PM
This album falls somewhere in between the negative reviews and the glowing positive reviews. Whilst it's inconsistent, it still has some good moments that make it somewhat worthwhile. I don't think it'll be a long term place winner in my stereo, but it'll be good for a spin every few months. I've got plenty of albums like that, I think the key is not to over play them.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: radiant on February 23, 2010, 04:08:13 PM
People who like Belus: listen solely to early Black Metal, perhaps even only first wave bands;

People who don't like Belus: listen to some or a lot of "new Black Metal", or have listened to it in the past.

So Vikernes stumbles across a good thing on Filosofem, with Jesus Dod.  Then later bands like Drudkh or whatever (I don't really know this, I'm just assuming) decide to use the same kinds of techniques to create their own atmospheres, but they're "Pagan Metal" instead, so they don't make it as "evil" as Burzum was.  Then, a decade or so after people start overdoing Filosofem, Vikernes gets out of jail, and records a load of songs that he wrote more than fifteen years beforehand, arranging them in a "Filosofem meets Hvis Lyset Tar Oss" manner (as described by himself), with a Pagan twist given the concept of the album, which combination, from the perspective of someone who doesn't listen to new Black Metal, is interesting, even surprising, at times, and definitely "extremely good".  To someone who's spent far too much time listening to crappy modern "Black Metal", the album sounds tired and repetitive, since, over a huge number of bands, and an even greater number of songs, they've heard it all before.

This begs the question (again): why do people not look at the context?
http://begthequestion.info/
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on February 23, 2010, 04:31:02 PM
http://begthequestion.info/

I am nought but a product of my birth and environment.  Thanks for reminding me of this, though. It begs the question: why do people keep getting things wrong, and why do I then have to suffer for it?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Chessnut on February 23, 2010, 05:12:25 PM
I would make a comparison between Engram and Belus: they both have similar riffing technique (at least to my untrained mind) but Engram is vastly superior to this. I've given Belus several listens to the point that it gives me a headache. I can listen to Engram for days straight without much effort.

Who can appreciate both Engram and Belus?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Arctic Sun on February 23, 2010, 06:22:58 PM
Conceptually they're miles apart, where one band was always under-appreciated and churned out great stuff nevertheless, and the other was the poster-child of growing the scene and making things seem contemplative.  There's some incidental convergence with the whole electronic thing, but even that was pretty dissimilar.

Anyway, with what actually happened there was a situation where fans were up in arms over hearing new/unreleased material, and then both bands actually produced some.  Since then everyone with an online forum account keeps posturing as an authority on the issue, as if all this transpired out of nowhere and it even matters in the first place.  You'd have to be pretty ambitious to completely ruin a scene that's overcrowded, shot, and short on good material. 

When it was all said and done they offered some good material, so I'm not quite seeing the necessity for testimonials about everything breaking down or whatever.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: nous on February 24, 2010, 12:27:16 AM
I find it hard to get upset over an instrumental character in the development of black metal clouding what's now a shoulder-to-shoulder scene by releasing material written when the movement actually existed.   This is especially considering that people have been clamoring for more Burzum, and what he delivered was written back when everything was still legit.  

Yet, there is this statement (which strikes me as weirdly self-contradictory):
Quote
I will not do my best to copy and reproduce my old music, just to please somebody. I never did and I never will. If it sounds similar it is because it is made by the same person. If it sounds different it is because it is not the same music and because I have evolved.

I can add that just like on the other metal albums (with the exception of "Hvis Lyset Tar Oss") "Den Hvite Guden" features some very old Burzum tracks. "Filosofem" featured the "Burzum" track, from 1991, and "Den Hvite Guden" will feature the "Uruk-Hai" track, from 1988-1989, although the title and the lyrics have been changed to fit the new concept. It will also feature the original "Dauði Baldrs" metal track, from 1993. In a sense this album too will not be "new material", but just a collection of previously unpublished tracks; some new, some old. If some think my composing skills have disappeared altogether, then at least there will be some gems for them too.

Before you publish a track, it is always unpublished. Anyway, what I think he is saying is that on Belus there are only ca. two old tracks, the rest new? If that were the case, it would not be a collection of old tracks which had "lain about", waiting to be published.

Concerning the allegation of "selling-out" that has been voiced here by others: I was thinking of classical composers and how they practically always improved until they died; that this isn't the case in metal probably has manifold reasons (of which the consumption of drugs is only one), but surely earning money from the music was never an indicator for a decline. [Yes, I know that this is an induction.]
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Devamitra on February 24, 2010, 02:11:25 AM
Who can appreciate both Engram and Belus?

*raises hand*

So far I see them pretty much on the same level. I didn't give a flying fuck about "Engram" when it was first released, but maybe two months after the hype died, it got stuck in my player/playlists and has never since left it. "Belus" was an instant hit and is hands down my most listened album this year so far, excluding some I've been obligated to repeat for reviewing purposes. Let's see how it fares in, say, two months.

And by the way, I heard Holocausto liked it as well. ;)
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sammaellofi on February 24, 2010, 04:59:43 AM
. I've given Belus several listens to the point that it gives me a headache.


I've had the last three tracks on repeat for that last 24 hours on and off and it works fine for me.  I can imagine it must be harder to have to sit through the first have of the album to get to them though.  I don't even bother.  The second I hear "Belus Tod", and hear how empty everything about it is, I skip onward. 

I mean don't get ne wrong, the riffing is actually pretty great, but that track never had enough to it for me to reading dig deep into. 
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on February 24, 2010, 05:05:39 AM
Tracks 2 and 5 are the only ones I might skip.  They're the "latter half of Filosofem" of Belus.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: nothingnowhere on February 24, 2010, 05:40:19 AM
Opinion: This is great!
Fact: This isn't the best metal ever.
Realization: Accept it and listen to it for what it is, without worrying about the butthurt kiddies who can't accept the fact so "defecate" all over it.

Also, I think track 2 is one of the best Burzum tracks I've ever heard.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Nimbostratus on February 24, 2010, 08:34:01 AM
Tracks 2 and 5 are the only ones I might skip.  They're the "latter half of Filosofem" of Belus.

Wise choice.

Also, there's some kind of mystification around Burzum that makes people think that old albums are bulletproof, when you actually skip some of their songs ;)
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sammaellofi on February 24, 2010, 08:41:34 AM
The mystification is accurate save for very few exceptions.


All tracks on the second and third album are worthy of greatness.
First album has some ifff points but all the parts are engulfed so deep within the mood that no one picks them out seperately that much.
The forth album is a great 4 track album followed by two ambient tracks for following contemplation and, aso it turns out, sleep.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Nimbostratus on February 24, 2010, 09:08:09 AM

* This album has more sense of interconnectedness and "having a goal" than any other Burzum album. For example the intro and track 5: in themselves, they're pretty unexceptional, but as short transitions they are perfect.  [...]

The man still has the power to stimulate the fantasy of mortals. If you don't see this, you either have a blackout, or you have impeded your imagination by listening to too much bad metal music.

PS. I forgot to mention the rhymes. They're beautiful.

This is very important, and it has been overlooked in this discussion: this work actually resembles the adventures of Belus, and does a very good lyrical job as a concept.

This was Varg's intention, to let people realize the importance of this european myth, not to make people bounce with ass-kicking songs. This is no longer about despair or hate towards christianity or the establishment or any other juvenile concern.

I'm starting to pay attention to lyrics, and you know, they work with the music.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on February 24, 2010, 09:16:48 AM
And thus the mortals begin to be enlightened to the glory of God.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: mandrake on February 25, 2010, 03:42:32 AM
I'm starting to pay attention to lyrics, and you know, they work with the music.

you doing it is harmless. For him this was fatal. In my opinion, the forced attention on words and overall (verbal) message kiiled at least the burzum vocals, continuing with the songs format, lenght etc. He should make music first than poetry or wathever.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: MLK on February 25, 2010, 05:28:39 AM
clever lyrics dont justify the lack of care in writing the music. its the visceral product that matters, otherwise it may as well have just been an audiobook.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on February 25, 2010, 07:37:53 AM
The above two posts have completely missed the point.  I don't speak Norwegian, and I can't say anything about Norwegian poetry.  I have, however, translated the lyrics into English, to see what they mean.  I've then thought about that meaning, with relation to the songs.  Every song is a perfect representation of the lyrical content.  To put it more absolutely, both the music and the lyrics fit the concept perfectly.  Knowing the concept, and then listening to the music, the images come, the feelings come, and everything that has ever been good about Burzum becomes apparent.  To the lazy multitude who can't be bothered to attempt to understand the message behind the music, maybe Dimmu Borgir is more up your street.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Helmholtz on February 25, 2010, 09:23:37 AM
This album is a failure for the reason that it is the first Burzum album that is not listenable from beginning to end.  The intro being what it is, is really irrelevant.  It's an adornment, and is only as good as the rest of the album allows it to be.  Belus' Dod was terrible, as this piece went absolutely nowhere, and was in a word, boring.  Glemselen's Elv, while lighter, folksier, and sentimental, is not all the worse off for it, actually has development, and sounds like a more modern version of something that could have appeared on Filosofem.  It actually has a certain grace about it, and while not as great as older Burzum, is still enjoyable.  Kaimadalthas' Nedstigning sounds goofy, and once again goes nowhere.  Sverddans has no place on a Burzum album.  Keliohesten is infuriating because it could have developed into something akin to Hvis Lyset Tar Oss after the first riff pair.  Morgenroede is unjustifiably long, as is the outro, but both showcase some fragments of transcendental melodies.  The album ranges from boring, to Varg being a tease, to enjoyable but not as good as the old works.  The real tragedy is that this is the first Burzum album I'll only be keeping a few songs from, and this is what is meant by the directionlessness talked about when criticizing the album, that it sort of hits upon quality by accident of Varg naturally being a good composer, but not giving anywhere near his all.  It is not unified, and this prevents it from being the same spell that Varg once conjured.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: MLK on February 25, 2010, 09:44:48 AM
The above two posts have completely missed the point.  I don't speak Norwegian, and I can't say anything about Norwegian poetry.  I have, however, translated the lyrics into English, to see what they mean.  I've then thought about that meaning, with relation to the songs.  Every song is a perfect representation of the lyrical content.  To put it more absolutely, both the music and the lyrics fit the concept perfectly.  Knowing the concept, and then listening to the music, the images come, the feelings come, and everything that has ever been good about Burzum becomes apparent.  To the lazy multitude who can't be bothered to attempt to understand the message behind the music, maybe Dimmu Borgir is more up your street.
good concept does not equal good execution.

thanks for presuming though that we were too stupid/lazy to similarly seek out a translation of the lyrics.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: meganerd on February 25, 2010, 10:12:25 AM
Anyone else notice the structural similarity between "Quintessence" from Darkthrone's Panzerfaust to much of the material on Belus?  According to the Darkthrone liner notes, Quintessence was written by Varg for Darkthrone in 1993.  I always just assumed that was only referring to lyrics (like the latter half of Transylvanian Hunger), but I find the similarity here interesting.

Anyway, despite my initial impression of this album as disappointingly bland, I keep wanting to listen to it.  I don't recall having a reaction like that to an album before.  It'll take a couple months to form a defensible opinion on this.  I think it's worth keeping in mind though that alligations such as "over-long, directionless, boring, and inconsistent" could all easily be applied to previous Burzum works, even more often, I dare say, than other quality but lesser works by foundational bands.  


Edited for spelling
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sammaellofi on February 25, 2010, 10:24:24 AM
Yes they used tritone chords to make it sound like a Burzum song, the way Lost Wisdom has those kinds of chords.  It's just supposed to be a post-Burzum song.  I don't know whether he wrote the music to it or not, but the point is the same either way.  If the news songs have the same sound as that one, it is because that Darkthrone song already was trying to be similar to Burzum.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: JewishPhysics on February 25, 2010, 10:40:28 AM
This album is a failure for the reason that it is the first Burzum album that is not listenable from beginning to end.  The intro being what it is, is really irrelevant.  It's an adornment, and is only as good as the rest of the album allows it to be.  Belus' Dod was terrible, as this piece went absolutely nowhere, and was in a word, boring.  Glemselen's Elv, while lighter, folksier, and sentimental, is not all the worse off for it, actually has development, and sounds like a more modern version of something that could have appeared on Filosofem.  It actually has a certain grace about it, and while not as great as older Burzum, is still enjoyable.  Kaimadalthas' Nedstigning sounds goofy, and once again goes nowhere.  Sverddans has no place on a Burzum album.  Keliohesten is infuriating because it could have developed into something akin to Hvis Lyset Tar Oss after the first riff pair.  Morgenroede is unjustifiably long, as is the outro, but both showcase some fragments of transcendental melodies.  The album ranges from boring, to Varg being a tease, to enjoyable but not as good as the old works.  The real tragedy is that this is the first Burzum album I'll only be keeping a few songs from, and this is what is meant by the directionlessness talked about when criticizing the album, that it sort of hits upon quality by accident of Varg naturally being a good composer, but not giving anywhere near his all.  It is not unified, and this prevents it from being the same spell that Varg once conjured.
Everything in the above post is correct.

I think a major problem for Varg is that after Filosofem he's attempted to move from casting spells to telling stories.  He should stick to sorcery.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on February 25, 2010, 10:54:42 AM
good concept does not equal good execution.

It helps to read what people say before you run off some standard ANUS/DLA crap.

I swear, I'm seeing more and more "me too!" posts with each coming day.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sammaellofi on February 25, 2010, 10:58:14 AM
I am seeing that too.   I am.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: JewishPhysics on February 25, 2010, 10:59:47 AM
good concept does not equal good execution.

It helps to read what people say before you run off some standard ANUS/DLA crap.

I swear, I'm seeing more and more "me too!" posts with each coming day.
It's almost as though a consensus is being formed.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: E on February 25, 2010, 11:04:08 AM
It's almost as though a consensus is being formed.

Or, God forbid, a school of thought is being established. RACITS!!1!
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Nimbostratus on February 25, 2010, 11:24:21 AM

good concept does not equal good execution.


It is as unwise to confuse them as to isolate them.

Belus has the best concept in the entire discography. I believe that 50% - 60% of the execution is good. This makes to my mind, a worthy, yet not immortal album.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Nimbostratus on February 25, 2010, 11:30:51 AM
good concept does not equal good execution.

It helps to read what people say before you run off some standard ANUS/DLA crap.

I swear, I'm seeing more and more "me too!" posts with each coming day.

I have to say that defending Belus in this shitstorm may be attracting for emotional reasons too, it is not good to presume such things about people.

Yet, I find asseverations of this album as a complete failure to be completely unfounded, and ANUS pre-reviews and reviews to be purposely viral.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on February 25, 2010, 12:32:07 PM
I am seeing that too.   I am.

Amazing.  Simply amazing.  You win one internet, good sir!
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Erebus on February 25, 2010, 02:12:34 PM
I had a mixed reaction. While some of the tracks (like the third and fourth) surprised me as I found them too "sunny", I keep listening to the album, like meganerd does.
We already heard the second track in Daudi Baldrs, without distortion and vocals. Sverddans seems out of context, much like "War" on Burzum.
I listened to Belus while falling asleep, like I did with all Burzum's album even before reading that Vikerness conceived them to be listened that way. I listened to it on the train, coming home from work. I gave it another couple of listens. As far as I went with it, my opinion about Belus sits halfway between those of Octuple and Cargést.
Time will tell.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Athanasius contra mundum on February 25, 2010, 04:13:11 PM

Realization: Accept it and listen to it for what it is, without worrying about the butthurt kiddies who can't accept the fact so "defecate" all over it.


Which is every single person who expresses distaste for the album in any fashion, right? This discussion is honestly tiring me. Am I allowed to say that I think this album isn't the most interesting thing I've heard, or does that not meet the standards and expectations for the independent, open-minded, diverse and unique arbiters of taste around here? I enjoy engaging discussion over the validity of one's criticism, but this is becoming all too much a case of "butt-hurt kiddies" flinging insults at each from both sides; with no positive conclusion or result.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: scourge on February 25, 2010, 04:37:03 PM
I'm not going to bother listening to it. The scathing reviews and the scattered disagreement both killed it. Besides, there is a large enough host of uncontested albums that do not draw any questions about their established excellence. I'd also rank Engram amongst 'em btw ;)
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: istaros on February 25, 2010, 07:50:29 PM
This album is a failure for the reason that it is the first Burzum album that is not listenable from beginning to end.  The intro being what it is, is really irrelevant.  It's an adornment, and is only as good as the rest of the album allows it to be.  Belus' Dod was terrible, as this piece went absolutely nowhere, and was in a word, boring.  Glemselen's Elv, while lighter, folksier, and sentimental, is not all the worse off for it, actually has development, and sounds like a more modern version of something that could have appeared on Filosofem.  It actually has a certain grace about it, and while not as great as older Burzum, is still enjoyable.  Kaimadalthas' Nedstigning sounds goofy, and once again goes nowhere.  Sverddans has no place on a Burzum album.  Keliohesten is infuriating because it could have developed into something akin to Hvis Lyset Tar Oss after the first riff pair.  Morgenroede is unjustifiably long, as is the outro, but both showcase some fragments of transcendental melodies.  The album ranges from boring, to Varg being a tease, to enjoyable but not as good as the old works.  The real tragedy is that this is the first Burzum album I'll only be keeping a few songs from, and this is what is meant by the directionlessness talked about when criticizing the album, that it sort of hits upon quality by accident of Varg naturally being a good composer, but not giving anywhere near his all.  It is not unified, and this prevents it from being the same spell that Varg once conjured.
Everything in the above post is correct.

I think a major problem for Varg is that after Filosofem he's attempted to move from casting spells to telling stories.  He should stick to sorcery.

All too true. Belus is not terrible, Prozakistan's hijinks notwithstanding(looks like you can troll trolls after all). However, it *is* terribly mechanical. It seems to suffer from a problem that afflicts a lot of other recent black metal like Advent Parallax, Kembatinen Premaster, Negative Plane, and Deathspell Omega, as well as a few older semi-classics like Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk and Eld. Namely, its self-awareness leads the listener down a pre-defined path. There is too much intent, and too little risk. No wandering or exploring. Just a mission, which is not bad in and of itself - but if the outcome is predetermined from the start, what's the point of enduring the journey? That's like being in the Olympics but making sure all the other runners have been drugged.

What works for Bach does not necessarily work for black metal. Every minutely precise movement in Belus is an intended one. Everything that occurs, does so under full awareness. Sounds good on paper, but as a result, the album is manacled to its own intent, making it a very conscious, legible, dictative album - whereas Hvis Lyset Tar Oss (and, notably, just about every other excellent black metal album) is the exact opposite; it is dreams, mysteries, sleeptalking, and participation in (not academic knowledge of) myth. Not only that, but the "OK for anyone else, shitty for Burzum" is an entirely valid complaint. We expect more from kings than paupers - else they don't remain kings for long...
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on February 25, 2010, 08:14:53 PM
By the above reasoning, In the Nightside Eclipse isn't that great.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on February 25, 2010, 09:21:17 PM
My opinion falls somewhere in between the extremes of either camp.

Is it old Burzum?  No. Could we have expected it to be old Burzum? No.


In that context, is it good? Yes.



Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: istaros on February 25, 2010, 10:01:36 PM
By the above reasoning, In the Nightside Eclipse isn't that great.

By my reasoning -that's the one you were referring to- it is. Although, admittedly, less so than most of the other albums generally seen as the black metal classics. I listen to Emperor a lot less than I listen to Sacramentum, Graveland, Burzum, and even Immortal.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: nothingnowhere on February 26, 2010, 04:59:49 AM

Realization: Accept it and listen to it for what it is, without worrying about the butthurt kiddies who can't accept the fact so "defecate" all over it.


Which is every single person who expresses distaste for the album in any fashion, right? This discussion is honestly tiring me. Am I allowed to say that I think this album isn't the most interesting thing I've heard, or does that not meet the standards and expectations for the independent, open-minded, diverse and unique arbiters of taste around here? I enjoy engaging discussion over the validity of one's criticism, but this is becoming all too much a case of "butt-hurt kiddies" flinging insults at each from both sides; with no positive conclusion or result.

I never suggested one had to like it. If you don't like it that's fine, I couldn't really care less and I can see why the flaws and complaints in the album are valid in some ways and could drive away many people. They don't really bother me, and I find it to be an overall quality piece of work. Like I said, not the best thing ever, but I find it a refreshing album. I think Engram is better, since that's what everyone is comparing it to, but I still find value in Belus.

My comment was directed at those who expected the best thing ever, didn't get it, and are crying about it. Or those still upset over website domains.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: MLK on February 26, 2010, 07:48:43 AM
Is it old Burzum?  No. Could we have expected it to be old Burzum? No.
Why not? Could we not at least expect it to be as good as old burzum?

Maybe I'm the fool for having high expectations - I dont listen to a lot of metal any more since most of it is dross, classical music is far more satisfying - but to me it seems people have let their standards slip.

Experience however tells me that most will have tired of Belus in 6-12 months time and will realize that ANUS aren't just being egoistic in their panning of it.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Conservationist on February 26, 2010, 07:55:51 AM
Could we not at least expect it to be as good as old burzum?

I never want artists to regress. When Metallica regresses, we call it selling out.

There's a dual taboo on Burzum, however. First, people really hate to admit that black metal munched the turd since about 1994 or so. Second, Varg is an icon of hope for people everywhere who want to believe they can defend their culture, ethnicity, values, forests, and all natural things from the oversimplified utilitarian human variants.

I say however that Varg has industrialized his music, and not in the Godflesh way, with Bolus.

Look at the obvious facts:

* It's a spare parts album. These are random tracks thrown together
* It's obviously simplified and yet made pretty like an indie album
* The logo is more "standard" as is the image
* It's going to be a big seller even if he did reggae versions of Venom songs

Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sammaellofi on February 26, 2010, 08:45:20 AM
There are three ways to regress

Become Metallica - Sell Out

Become Graveland - Wallow in your own repetition

Become Slayer - A little of Both, doing neither that well



Anyway, the concensus on this album that is forming is that it came out too quickly, it's not as good as the old material, it has it's good moments, the concept is not to be considered a flaw, and most of all, the idea of using old scrapped material was a bad idea.  Conversationalist went into it wanting it to be bad, and saw it so, and Cargest went into it defending it before he even heard it and now thinks it is the best thing ever.

My own opinion is changing toward the former, upon listening to "My Journey to the Stars" yesterday.  No, not all his music has to be as good and epic as that track, but it was a real eye-opener.  Sadly, it gets the typical post-99 review of "well it's better than most of the stuff out there".  
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: meganerd on February 26, 2010, 09:01:17 AM
I think Engram is better, since that's what everyone is comparing it to, but I still find value in Belus.

Other than a very rough correlation in time (it's been a year guys), I don't see any particular reason to compare Engram to Belus, though I certainly will agree that Engram is a more important album, and along with Gorguts, about the only thing that's come along since 1995 that really adds something substantial to the genre.  As for Belus, comparisons that come to my mind come from two camps:
 
-The bittersweet waning greatness camp (South of Heaven, Hammerheart, Sepultura's Arise, Panzerfaust, Battles in the North, Following the Voice of Blood, etc.)
-The recently mentioned false classics camp (Nattens Madrigal, Anthems to the Welkin, Eld, Dark Medieval Times, Drudkh's Autumn Aurora), all of which are good for "mood music," but not as freestanding art.

Placing this album in one of these two categories, or in a niche of its own (unlikely) is what will take some time, at least for one as "un-hasty" as me.  As far as expecting more from kings than from paupers, I'll only say that "disappointing" and "good" are not mutually exclusive.

Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: indjaseemun on February 26, 2010, 09:20:14 AM


My own opinion is changing toward the former, upon listening to "My Journey to the Stars" yesterday.  No, not all his music has to be as good and epic as that track, but it was a real eye-opener.  Sadly, it gets the typical post-99 review of "well it's better than most of the stuff out there".  

Listening to My Journey to The Stars really will make you see what once was is better than what now is.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on February 26, 2010, 09:32:10 AM
Conversationalist went into it wanting it to be bad, and saw it so, and Cargest went into it defending it before he even heard it and now thinks it is the best thing ever.

Give me some "Drink the Poetry of the Celtic Disciple" any day.  In the Nightside Eclipse > Burzum, as well.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Devamitra on February 26, 2010, 10:32:57 AM
Other than a very rough correlation in time (it's been a year guys), I don't see any particular reason to compare Engram to Belus, though I certainly will agree that Engram is a more important album, and along with Gorguts, about the only thing that's come along since 1995 that really adds something substantial to the genre.

That's it: I'm not sure anything substantial has been added, or even should be, so that's why I wouldn't blame "Belus" for not having made possible the impossible (even though if someone could be expected to have done it, it would be Burzum). Varg's interviews constantly remind us how vague the original black metal idea was. As soon as it became defined, it developed mutations and diseases unto itself. It's perfectly fine to choose to play old style black metal, but that means pre-formatting your work; no structural trick or elucidation of philosophy while playing Darkthrone variations will revolutionize the meaning of black metal. As for the fringe phenomena and eclectic bands, they eventually beget their own movements, preserving some of the core ideas but bringing in others that had no place in the original concept of black metal.

"Engram" and "Obscura" were refreshing because of these extremely alien influences, but mark my words, they are the end of an age, not the beginning of one. 

Quote
As for Belus, comparisons that come to my mind come from two camps:
 
-The bittersweet waning greatness camp (South of Heaven, Hammerheart, Sepultura's Arise, Panzerfaust, Battles in the North, Following the Voice of Blood, etc.)
-The recently mentioned false classics camp (Nattens Madrigal, Anthems to the Welkin, Eld, Dark Medieval Times, Drudkh's Autumn Aurora), all of which are good for "mood music," but not as freestanding art.

For albums of the first group the only possible critique is that the same band unfortunately did make an even better album; on their own, they shine.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Nimbostratus on February 26, 2010, 01:23:58 PM

Look at the obvious facts:

* It's a spare parts album. These are random tracks thrown together
* It's obviously simplified and yet made pretty like an indie album
* The logo is more "standard" as is the image
* It's going to be a big seller even if he did reggae versions of Venom songs



1.- I can agree with that. However, can we affirm that Burzum albums are that integral? Aske and Det Som Engang Var are more scattered, Belus seems to be as congruent as Filosofem is, partly thanks to the concept. Yes, the concept helps to connect material he made through the years.

2.- I don't understand what do you mean as complexity here. Still, I believe that half of the album is really good music, the rest is cliché and pretty but veeery repetitive riffs.

3.- The image and logo suck, we discussed that from its first appearance... damn, it is not even basically professional as marketing !

4.- It's going to be a big seller even if he succeeded Hviss Lyset Tar Oss. I don't understand if there's a point of criticism in this regard.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Svmmoned on February 26, 2010, 01:30:44 PM
It's Belus...how could it be the other way? How could he be different?

Judging by its elements alone it shouldn't made good impression on me. Quite the opposite. There are many things undeniably bad on this album. Song writing is simplified even in comparison with Filosofem, it succumbs to modernity, part of depth is lost because of guitar tone and production (it lacks that space which benefits debut and Filosofem), I hear Pink Floyd in it, I simply can't stand Kaimadalthas' Nedstigning (failed experiment which brings to mind very bad analogies) and Belus' Tilbakekomst seems obsolete for me (while I see nothing wrong with the Sworddance even if it's composed of ancient styles of metal, because it actually transfer its meaning through simple, obvious symbolism). However, taken as a whole and when connected with fragments of lyrics which I managed to understand through german translation it somehow manage to communicate its concept, there is a journey in it, but unfortunately (for me at least) rarely in song structure, rather through correlation beetween each songs. When you comprehend whole album and when you recall it in memory after listening. But don't forget that Vikernes abandoned more narrative style of debut long ago and for most of his carrer was seeking transcendence in layers of cyclic drones. Personally I would prefer Belus to be "told" utilizing Burzum S/T method.

I believe that ANUS judgement is temporary. They didn't applied same (holistic) criteria as for Engram, which is similarly constructed and have similar flaws.

Somehow I didn't like that brighter approach when taken by Abyssic Hate, Manes, Lugubrum etc. because they appeared to me as a non-metal, derived from rock and thus misplaced and destroying unity of theme, but then I realized that many great Black Metal works (by Darkthrone, Enslaved, Gorgoroth, Ildjarn, Graveland, Vlad Tepes or Legion of Doom) contained only as much death, darkness and tragedy as life itself and actually got broad range of moods, but as it seems they must be executed in certain way by certain people in certain context.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: chb on February 26, 2010, 04:18:14 PM
Belu is pretty decent if taken on its own, but compared to Hvis Lyset Tar Oss and Filosofem, it seems very boring and superfluous to me. The problem isn't so much that it's simplified (as Conservationist said): You can't really simplify Burzum's music much further but that the riffs seem trite compared to the earlier works, that there is no discernible overarching structure like there was on the older albums and that the music lacks excitement overall. There are some enjoyable moments, but they are few and far between. I enjoyed the final track, repetitive as it was, Glemselens Elv has its moments and Kamaidalthas Nedstigning is a very catchy song (not in spite but because of the goofy clean vocals).All in all, I didn't expect much of this so I can't say I'm greatly disappointed because I didn't expect much of this but I still hoped for something better from Varg.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Nimbostratus on February 27, 2010, 07:57:27 PM
I would make a comparison between Engram and Belus: they both have similar riffing technique (at least to my untrained mind) but Engram is vastly superior to this. I've given Belus several listens to the point that it gives me a headache. I can listen to Engram for days straight without much effort.

Who can appreciate both Engram and Belus?

Engram has been defined as "vicious" and I agree with that. It is a heavily Dionysiac album.

"Belus is the shining white solar deity; enlightening and pure" says Vikernes. I find an Apollonian -black- metal album to be extremely valuable. Classifying it as "sunnier" is right in some sense, but it is a reduction and a misunderstanding as simplicity.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: scourge on February 28, 2010, 05:43:25 AM
Synthesis of Dionysian and Apollonian, respectively, in italic: Modern society searches for a new paradigm that is both ideologically forward-looking, and pragmatic. China may get there first. (http://www.corrupt.org/news/looking_for_a_new_paradigm)
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Deadbirds on February 28, 2010, 02:39:31 PM
Quote
I listen to Emperor a lot less than I listen to Sacramentum, Graveland, Burzum, and even Immortal.
Of course. Emperor is not worth anybody's time.

And Belus fails at being either entertainment or art.

....And nothing is good enough for my godly self to listen to.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Devamitra on February 28, 2010, 02:51:44 PM
....And nothing is good enough for my godly self to listen to.

Liking almost nothing is not the problem itself; nearly hipsterian levels of neuroticism about what is being liked and what is not being liked, is.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Xr on February 28, 2010, 05:03:49 PM
Humor aside,

Belus will be a blockbuster, one kind or another. Most here wanted it to be a sort of anti-statement, something that would puzzle, alienate or put people into disbelief; something that would deliver answers or at least questions in times of literal indifference. Sadly it isn't. It is transparent. In being thus, anything can be projected through it. It is relative. Read the statements designated official by Varg himself, this is not even concealed. Belus is designed to please a particular kind of people, and it seems that it is the first Burzum album which actually went through (or suffered, if one wants) a process of design, even if most of its material is recycling of older, conjecturally inferior raw material. Nonetheless, each note of this album was tangible currency from the point a new album seemed to be coming on: but this is the least thing that can be blamed, this was clear from the beginning. But nor can still those be blamed who are bitterly disappointed by this je-ne-sais-quoi vanilla version of Burzum, for older material was far too outstanding and yet is still to be understood by the wider audience.

Humor on,

I think with Belus, Varg was trying too hard, and won.


(http://www.terrorizer.com/sites/terrorizer.com/files/imagecache/frontpage/BURZUM_COVER.jpg)

What you see is vaguely related.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wooden Artifact on March 01, 2010, 08:23:01 AM
http://byelobog.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/burzum-belus-proceeds-to-haiti-earthquake-victims/

Varg lends support to Haiti relief effort.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Antihuman on March 01, 2010, 09:41:24 AM
http://byelobog.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/burzum-belus-proceeds-to-haiti-earthquake-victims/

He still talks about preserving the purity of the Nordic heritage, but his entire political agenda has shifted.  By his own admission, he is no longer making black metal.  But it sounds like black metal.  I will abstain from value judgment in regard to Belus, but it seems evident that Varg is very confused.

The system's corrective measures have tainted him.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: E on March 01, 2010, 09:49:39 AM
Wow, first the Scientology dvds, now Beluses. Like they don't already have sufficient piles of rubbish.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Antihuman on March 01, 2010, 05:22:46 PM
I was ignoring the bit about Haiti.  The ideological shift is still evident.

Varg attempted to make something that sounds like black metal without the spirit of black metal.  Had he sought another form (i.e. tried to make the music sound different, rather than saying 'if it sounds similar, it's because I am the same person' and so forth), the work would perhaps be more successful.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on March 01, 2010, 05:43:30 PM
Actually, he attempted to make something that sounds like Burzum, and he succeeded.  Oh, wait, no he didn't - this sounds nothing like Burzum.  In fact, it's like Venom.  In fact, it's a cross between Drudkh, Enslaved, Borknagar, and Eastern European Black Metal as a whole.  Except it isn't, because it sounds exactly like Burzum.  Ahh, it's so confusing, having these conflicting truths, isn't it?  Until, that is, you realise that they aren't conflicting, and that people are simply hearing what they want to in the music (hey, I hear traces of Kraftwerk, too!  Jeez, Varg should really stick with his own style, instead of copying all of these other bands).  Hell, I could say that early Darkthrone is just Bathory worship recorded with bad equipment.  I'd be right, from one perspective, but wrong, from another.  Perspective itself, however, can never be absolutely "right" or "wrong" - it will take some time, it seems, before Belus is accepted to be, surprise surprise, a triumph.

Antihuman, what you've basically just said is "if he'd made an effort to make his music not his music, then it would have been better".  In your attempt to curry favour with the ANUS crowd (this is my fallback position, as you can see - all of you anti-Belus faggots are evidently attempting to get in with the ANUSites), you've actually gone against one of the fundamental points of the DLA, which is that music which is written to adhere to specific criteria as regards "genre" etc. is, generally, crap, given that the music which defines a "genre" is always the best of that "genre".
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: istaros on March 01, 2010, 06:32:33 PM
Quote
Industry observers have praised “Belus” for its imaginative melodies and use of atmosphere, calling it “the most mature black metal album ever created.” It will be distributed worldwide by Plastic Head (UK).
Mature metal: Cynic, Emperor, Wolves in the Throne Room, Skepticism, Opeth, Ephel Duath
Immature metal: Deicide, Sarcofago, Profanatica, Cannibal Corpse, Graveland, Immortal, Rigor Mortis

By and large: fuck maturity in metal. The ones who pull it off without succumbing to eternal masturbation are few and far between. Metal revels, by design, in the chaos of the cavalier, and its wisdom lies in experience, not knowledge.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on March 01, 2010, 06:46:57 PM
Your argument was almost ruined by Deicid :p
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: scourge on March 01, 2010, 06:52:45 PM
The system's corrective measures have tainted him.

I got a couple years on him, but he easily looks a decade older. The grind of prison life has probably taken its toll from the inside outward and finally on to his acts in life. Why destroy the spark of life in people and call it reform?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: indjaseemun on March 01, 2010, 07:06:25 PM
Someone said on this topic burzum's ambient work was bad. Do you really think so? I think daudi baldrs is good.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: tumours for TV stars on March 02, 2010, 05:28:04 AM
Earache boss deliberately leaked 'Belus', stating that the album was "garbage" and Vikernes a "racist dickhead".

http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2010/02/23/vigilante-file-sharing
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Svmmoned on March 02, 2010, 06:58:28 AM
http://byelobog.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/burzum-belus-proceeds-to-haiti-earthquake-victims/

I just hope that will ultimately alienate and prevent EVERYONE on this forum from buying that album. Either pro or anti Belus. Vikernes decision is so unbelievably fucked up on logic (and "individualistic" or simply cynical) that I don't even know where to start, but its nice that he informed us on what he will spend our eventual money. That transparency gives me a clean choice. Mock the philantropist!
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: 41|>5 on March 02, 2010, 07:05:09 AM
http://byelobog.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/burzum-belus-proceeds-to-haiti-earthquake-victims/

Varg lends support to Haiti relief effort.
lol, I see that people really are falling for this.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: JewishPhysics on March 02, 2010, 08:10:15 AM
Quote from: Cargest
Antihuman, what you've basically just said is "if he'd made an effort to make his music not his music, then it would have been better".  In your attempt to curry favour with the ANUS crowd (this is my fallback position, as you can see - all of you anti-Belus faggots are evidently attempting to get in with the ANUSites), you've actually gone against one of the fundamental points of the DLA, which is that music which is written to adhere to specific criteria as regards "genre" etc. is, generally, crap, given that the music which defines a "genre" is always the best of that "genre".

Get in with the ANUSites?  What does that even mean?  And why are you so upset over people not liking Belus?  Does it really bother you that much?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on March 02, 2010, 10:20:40 AM
People are intentionally bandwagoning, and may have been successfully trolled.  Why should I not be pissed off when a phenomenal album is sidelined because some retards are trying to be cool?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on March 02, 2010, 10:25:34 AM
Earache boss deliberately leaked 'Belus', stating that the album was "garbage" and Vikernes a "racist dickhead".

Surely this is advertising for getting Belus, rather than advertising against it?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Devamitra on March 02, 2010, 10:48:32 AM
A fateful prophecy from Finnish soil, you're welcome to it:

In five years, this whole discussion will be a source of mirth and amusement to us all.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: tumours for TV stars on March 02, 2010, 01:35:36 PM
Earache boss deliberately leaked 'Belus', stating that the album was "garbage" and Vikernes a "racist dickhead".

Surely this is advertising for getting Belus, rather than advertising against it?

Maybe, I just thought it was amusing and kind of ironic.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Erebus on March 02, 2010, 01:57:32 PM
Vikernes is a genius. Just look at this:

Quote
- I have zero in income and will never be able to repay what I owe. The only way out is bankruptcy. Then I can perhaps earn my own money in five years.

Then it came that guy from earache, and then the Byelobog announcement.

This looks like high level trolling.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Athanasius contra mundum on March 02, 2010, 02:30:46 PM
People are intentionally bandwagoning, and may have been successfully trolled.  Why should I not be pissed off when a phenomenal album is sidelined because some retards are trying to be cool?

What if I don't like it? Am I doomed to being a pretentious dick until I agree with you? Seriously, this is the shittiest thread on the forum; moderators: please delete.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: nothingnowhere on March 02, 2010, 06:58:48 PM
http://byelobog.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/burzum-belus-proceeds-to-haiti-earthquake-victims/

Varg lends support to Haiti relief effort.

People on this forum believe this is real, therefore, what the fuck is wrong with all of you. OH WAIT! Now that it's the group opinion that Varg is a sell out because of some vague and unfounded wording thrown around, your views of reality have become skewed and corrupt. Hmm...
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on March 02, 2010, 08:06:41 PM
People are intentionally bandwagoning, and may have been successfully trolled.  Why should I not be pissed off when a phenomenal album is sidelined because some retards are trying to be cool?

What if I don't like it? Am I doomed to being a pretentious dick until I agree with you? Seriously, this is the shittiest thread on the forum; moderators: please delete.

I'd ask you why you "don't like it" and then tear your arguments to shreds, as I have been doing since people first started wanting it to be bad.

I don't like Engram.  I've listened to it far too much, probably.  Even so, I can appreciate that it's a tremendous album.  Similarly, I can appreciate that Belus is a tremendous album, and I also happen to like it, despite setting aside over an hour every day to listen to it, repeating some songs when necessary.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Athanasius contra mundum on March 02, 2010, 08:17:42 PM
People are intentionally bandwagoning, and may have been successfully trolled.  Why should I not be pissed off when a phenomenal album is sidelined because some retards are trying to be cool?

What if I don't like it? Am I doomed to being a pretentious dick until I agree with you? Seriously, this is the shittiest thread on the forum; moderators: please delete.

I'd ask you why you "don't like it" and then tear your arguments to shreds, as I have been doing since people first started wanting it to be bad.


And some people may dislike just because they, you know, don't like it. "Since people first started wanting it to be bad..." sounds like a nifty method of drowning out others arguments to me. I very much enjoy spirited debate, but so far little people in this thread (including you) have provided absolutely none of that. Instead of presenting your evidence and letting it be compared, you're using weak attempts to guilt-trip others into feeling like they only disliked the album due to ideological motivations, a.k.a. "wanting it to be bad". If you have a counter-argument, present it. I'll be happy to read it! I'm just tired of reading all the bickering.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: istaros on March 03, 2010, 12:31:12 AM
I'd ask you why you "don't like it" and then tear your arguments to shreds, as I have been doing since people first started wanting it to be bad.
USI - you haven't torn anyone's arguments to shreds. You've complained. Whose opinion of the album is it that you believe you've changed?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on March 03, 2010, 01:48:46 AM
Quote from: Erosion
Hey man, I have the right to believe in what I want!

Quote from: istaros
Well that's, like, just your opinion, MAN.

Istaros and Erosion just buggered it up for the entire anti-Belus team.


Erosion, I've presented my arguments in this thread, on the DLA blog, on numerous forums, and even on antihumanism.com.  My "guilt-tripping" (read: accurate realisation of intent) started after people failed to respond to anything that I said with anything other than "lololol you sound pretty butthurt" and similar.  Countless people have posted their entirely worthless "opinions" of the album without looking at the actual facts which I (and others, I might add) have offered.  Most people have regurgitated the DLA's standpoint, even occasionally rewording the DLA's points to make it look like the posters themselves thought of them.

Right now, it's on you to present reasons for "not liking" the album.  If you say it sounds too much like Drudkh/Enslaved/Borknagar/Russians, then I've already countered that.  If you say the structure is too simplistic, then I've already countered that.  If you say that the riffs are uninteresting, even the DLA disagree.  If you don't like "Sverddans", then, by all means, listen to War, or tracks 4+ of Filosofem, or Dauthi Baldrs, or check out the context and then realise that it sounds like a duel (god fucking damnit).

If you don't like it because you "don't like it", then you can geeeet ooouuut.  "Opinion" is far too weak an argument for ANUS.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wooden Artifact on March 03, 2010, 01:56:55 AM
Wow, Cargest's winning the war for Burzum. Maybe Vikernes will give him a medal.

"Anti-belus team"? You're just too ridiculous. 

Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on March 03, 2010, 02:30:25 AM
I'm also winning the war for good music.  Maybe Bach will give me a medal, too.

"Drawing attention away from my points about the music and criticising my understanding of the situation"? You're just too ridiculous.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: E on March 03, 2010, 03:40:23 AM
Now that Cargést has won us all over, and maybe even I don't want my 2x 52:16 minutes back anymore, it looks like the soap opera isn't over just yet: PHD launched its fresh Burzum clothing line and ORG is back with a major trolling opportunity for the artists/'artists' among us.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Forza Romana on March 03, 2010, 06:31:00 AM
Hmm I waited all this time to make a response to this and the answer I felt I could use here is this: If this new album is not up to par or not how you would like it, then simply put let us see your musical efforts. This is not directed to anyone, but this is in general.  I am only saying this because overall I am tired of folks here in the town I live in who talk about community and so forth and I am the one who does everything they talk about.... I am the one that puts forth energy, time, and dedication.

Anyways, not being a Burzum expert, I still have yet to listen to this release closer...
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: istaros on March 03, 2010, 06:35:28 AM
Right now, it's on you to present reasons for "not liking" the album.  If you say it sounds too much like Drudkh/Enslaved/Borknagar/Russians, then I've already countered that.  If you say the structure is too simplistic, then I've already countered that.  If you say that the riffs are uninteresting, even the DLA disagree.  If you don't like "Sverddans", then, by all means, listen to War, or tracks 4+ of Filosofem, or Dauthi Baldrs, or check out the context and then realise that it sounds like a duel (god fucking damnit).

We don't need to present anything - music is shitty by default, even when it's Burzum. Excellence is a rarity. You've countered every thing, but convince no one - meaning you've countered nothing. I don't like it because I don't like obvious music - I already know that 2+2=4, and if I want to "hear a duel" I'll listen to a duel. If you need to know the lyrical context of a song to enjoy the song, it's because the music is shitty. Belus is boring - you can't like it hard enough to make it good.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on March 03, 2010, 08:47:53 AM
We don't need to present anything - music is shitty by default, even when it's Burzum. Excellence is a rarity. You've countered every thing, but convince no one - meaning you've countered nothing. I don't like it because I don't like obvious music - I already know that 2+2=4, and if I want to "hear a duel" I'll listen to a duel. If you need to know the lyrical context of a song to enjoy the song, it's because the music is shitty. Belus is boring - you can't like it hard enough to make it good.

The interplay between riffs between songs makes it interesting.  The musical representations of myth which are sculpted in such a way as to evoke the images and concepts of that myth make it interesting.  Non-standard song structure, non-standard technical playing, offbeat vocals, use of multiple vocal styles, and sundry other similarly mundane points also make the individual songs interesting.

But then again, I'm a perennial optimist.  Perhaps it all does come down to a case of basic perception.  I simply prefer the perception which lets me react favourably to good music, as opposed to the perception that music should be used to alter one's own image.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: DeathDealer on March 03, 2010, 09:25:21 AM
If this new album is not up to par or not how you would like it, then simply put let us see your musical efforts.

I went to a restaurant and I didn't like it. Do I have to cook you dinner to tell you that?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Athanasius contra mundum on March 03, 2010, 09:26:48 AM
Quote from: Erosion
Hey man, I have the right to believe in what I want!

Quote from: istaros
Well that's, like, just your opinion, MAN.

Istaros and Erosion just buggered it up for the entire anti-Belus team.


Erosion, I've presented my arguments in this thread, on the DLA blog, on numerous forums, and even on antihumanism.com.  My "guilt-tripping" (read: accurate realisation of intent) started after people failed to respond to anything that I said with anything other than "lololol you sound pretty butthurt" and similar.  Countless people have posted their entirely worthless "opinions" of the album without looking at the actual facts which I (and others, I might add) have offered.  Most people have regurgitated the DLA's standpoint, even occasionally rewording the DLA's points to make it look like the posters themselves thought of them.

Right now, it's on you to present reasons for "not liking" the album.  If you say it sounds too much like Drudkh/Enslaved/Borknagar/Russians, then I've already countered that.  If you say the structure is too simplistic, then I've already countered that.  If you say that the riffs are uninteresting, even the DLA disagree.  If you don't like "Sverddans", then, by all means, listen to War, or tracks 4+ of Filosofem, or Dauthi Baldrs, or check out the context and then realise that it sounds like a duel (god fucking damnit).

If you don't like it because you "don't like it", then you can geeeet ooouuut.  "Opinion" is far too weak an argument for ANUS.

I don't like it because I want to hate it so I can appear as a cool metal elitist.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: deadjew on March 03, 2010, 10:06:11 AM
If it's not too late to add some fuel to the church fire...

Belus makes sense when analyzed in context of the previous two synth albums, which, as it turns out, didn't represent a change in composition brought on by the inconvenience of not being allowed to keep a guitar behind bars, but a larger shift in perspective. Baldr's Death carried out the storyline concept thing rather nicely with an A to Z approach, while Hlidskjalf consisted of powerful vignettes which could be played in any order, given that they were basically snippets of a larger chunk of ambience. The latest release gives the impression that Varg wanted to merge both compositional concepts and create something that is capable of jumping from profound tragedy to bouts of bucolic elation, and telling a meaningful tale at the same time.

Obviously, this is entirely removed from what he did on DSEV or HLTO, so it's not really surprising that fans of that particular era felt alienated. Still, what is Belus in terms of its own identity, exactly (well yeah, apart from being sui generis)? It's not the self-titled part two, as it's supposed to pull off a lengthy narrative... yet, we get a pleroma of songforms which are arranged in succession so that they make sense as a story, as long as you keep the description handy. There are lots of distinctly Burzumic techniques used now and then: the glimmering of Glemselens Elv, the savage riff at the beginning of Kaimadalthas' Nedstigning and the ominous drone in the background of Keliohesten, but frankly, all of it feels like the two middle tracks of HLTO dissected with their innards smeared over an odd 50 minutes, so that no song gets, God forbid, too texturally complex for its own sake.

Now the thing that got me into listening to Burzum and hailing it as "the" thing that defined black metal by transcending it, was the peculiar characteristic that none of those albums (the first three in particular) required a willful suspension of disbelief. You know, the thing you usually have to do when you listen to fantasy music about Elves and what once was. Burzum actually felt as if it had more to do with real life than what most people do on a day to day basis. It stimulated the fantasy of mortals, as we all know. The guy who mentioned that Varg stopped casting spells and started making music is right on. Fuck, after repeated listening I can confess that I enjoy Belus the same way I enjoy Peste Noire. And that's probably why most people feel so butthurt.
</personal drama>
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: JewishPhysics on March 03, 2010, 12:54:58 PM
Quote from: Cargest
I'm a perennial
(http://www.mooseyscountrygarden.com/perennial-plants/perennial-daylily-red.jpg)
This explains why you love Belus so much.  Mystery solved.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sammaellofi on March 03, 2010, 02:40:17 PM
This thread is getting idiotic.  It is as if people don't really care about their opinions on not liking the album, but rather they just love to see Cargest throw a pissy fit about it.  

Why have a war over whether an album is good or not?  Rationalizing what people find bad in order to talk people into denying their judgment is not going to help.  I'll admit, I was a defender of the album early on, but I haven't really listened to ANY of it since then.  Not even the tracks I praised, and anyone who tears down Engram to boost the status of a mediocre album is blocking the progress of metal.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on March 03, 2010, 03:13:56 PM
Engram is a good album, even though I don't like it (same with Hvis Lyset Tar Oss).  Belus is a good album, even though others don't like it.

This whole Belus episode merely reinforces a large number of critical points made by ANUS and the DLA.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: istaros on March 03, 2010, 10:08:37 PM
The interplay between riffs between songs makes it interesting.  The musical representations of myth which are sculpted in such a way as to evoke the images and concepts of that myth make it interesting.  Non-standard song structure, non-standard technical playing, offbeat vocals, use of multiple vocal styles, and sundry other similarly mundane points also make the individual songs interesting.

But then again, I'm a perennial optimist.  Perhaps it all does come down to a case of basic perception.  I simply prefer the perception which lets me react favourably to good music, as opposed to the perception that music should be used to alter one's own image.
You seem to prefer the perception that the album is good, and therefore you must find reasons to like it. I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince myself of the hidden genius of something that so blatantly wears its heart on its sleeve. The album's methods are fully visible and inextricably linked to Varg's intentions, and this makes it a boring listen, overall. Music that tells a story, no matter how good the story is, bores me - I'd rather read a book about the story. I prefer music that lifts a veil within my own consciousness, reignites some forgotten flame, or brings to life some unknown drama that had before existed only in my own soul. Something that punctures the barrier between me and the world outside of me - this never happens when the music is shallow, but it also never happens when the music tries *too* hard.

All the "interesting"(boring) facets you mentioned are just techniques. They've been done before, and better, by others. Belus pales in comparison to those others, which makes it unforgivably bad for a Burzum album. It is too reflective; it has no mystery to it. And you could tell he was fighting the urge to use flutes and xylophones :)
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: esoteric on March 04, 2010, 12:59:08 AM
It is too reflective; it has no mystery to it.

Reflective, but not self-reflective. Varg is not what he was and there is no personal content in this album other than shadows of what he was. This is such an impersonal album and you can't depersonalize music. The early albums were easy, youthful vigor combined with antisocial philosophy but now comes the hard part - building on that. Next album if he actually decides to write original content he needs to show us how he has changed whilst in jail.

Quote
And you could tell he was fighting the urge to use flutes and xylophones :)

I wish he didn't fight that particular urge, it might have made the album more interesting.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on March 04, 2010, 01:25:52 AM
I think the "truth" lies somewhere in between...

This.  The music is good, regardless of whether you like it or not.  I think it's fantastic, because it says more to me than any Burzum album before, excluding three tracks off the first two albums.

You seem to prefer the perception that the album is good, and therefore you must find reasons to like it. I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince myself of the hidden genius of something that so blatantly wears its heart on its sleeve. The album's methods are fully visible and inextricably linked to Varg's intentions, and this makes it a boring listen, overall. Music that tells a story, no matter how good the story is, bores me - I'd rather read a book about the story. I prefer music that lifts a veil within my own consciousness, reignites some forgotten flame, or brings to life some unknown drama that had before existed only in my own soul. Something that punctures the barrier between me and the world outside of me - this never happens when the music is shallow, but it also never happens when the music tries *too* hard.

All the "interesting"(boring) facets you mentioned are just techniques. They've been done before, and better, by others. Belus pales in comparison to those others, which makes it unforgivably bad for a Burzum album. It is too reflective; it has no mystery to it. And you could tell he was fighting the urge to use flutes and xylophones :)

It wasn't difficult to find reasons to like it.  The most obvious one was "it's good music", but you seemed to want me to clarify how it was good music, so I gave you a few examples of the aspects that I, at least, found interesting when I first listened to the album (actually, fuck "interesting" - mind-blowing was the first reaction, when it first clicked that the album was basically one song with an interlude).  I've always preferred the "intellectual" approach to music, from the listener's point of view.  Music that makes one "feel" is ok, but music which makes one think is superior, by my values and experiences.

Two of the criticisms made against the album were that the structures were crap (I'm not hearing this one any more) and the vocals were too "standard" for Burzum (specifically, that they fell on the drum beats, which, actually, they don't, for the most part), which is why I brought those points up.

Show me a non-classical musician/band that has written an album the songs of which are all inextricably linked by the echoes, and even full resurgence, of various sections of music (riffs) from most songs throughout most songs.  Now show me one which has managed to do that and make sense within the musical (and conceptual) context of both the songs themselves and the album as a whole.

Reflective, but not self-reflective.

Utter bollocks.

Next album if he actually decides to write original content he needs to show us how he has changed whilst in jail.

How about "my thoughts are more ordered, and flow far more easily than they used to"?  "I'm far less erratic, given that I'm now far more mature than I was when I recorded the older albums"?  That's the feeling I get from Belus, anyway.

Look at it this way: before, Burzum songs were phenomenal - My Journey to the Stars, Snu Mikrokosmos Tegn, Det Som En Gang Var, Jesus' Tod.  Now, suddenly, we're faced with an album which is engineered to be more than the sum of its parts, to the extent that the songs themselves are "average" to "very good", but the album itself is "fantastic".
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: esoteric on March 04, 2010, 01:36:18 AM
How about "my thoughts are more ordered, and flow far more easily than they used to"?  "I'm far less erratic, given that I'm now far more mature than I was when I recorded the older albums"?  That's the feeling I get from Belus, anyway.


This is why I said the music is not self-reflective. What is he trying to express with this album? No-one knows. It wears the aural clothing of early albums but the important bit - you know, the ART - is totally tired and confused. This is what happens when you refuse to engage with the last 15 years of your life. He must have changed his thoughts while in jail, had revelations, insights. We want to hear them. I couldn't care less that he can more coherently think and order his thoughts. Where is the Varg here?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on March 04, 2010, 02:35:14 AM
This is why I said the music is not self-reflective. What is he trying to express with this album? No-one knows. It wears the aural clothing of early albums but the important bit - you know, the ART - is totally tired and confused. This is what happens when you refuse to engage with the last 15 years of your life. He must have changed his thoughts while in jail, had revelations, insights. We want to hear them. I couldn't care less that he can more coherently think and order his thoughts. Where is the Varg here?

It's in the appreciation of ancient understanding, whereas it used to be in the chaos of mysticism.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: istaros on March 04, 2010, 05:01:21 AM
It wasn't difficult to find reasons to like it.  The most obvious one was "it's good music", but you seemed to want me to clarify how it was good music, so I gave you a few examples of the aspects that I, at least, found interesting when I first listened to the album... Show me a non-classical musician/band that has written an album the songs of which are all inextricably linked by the echoes, and even full resurgence, of various sections of music (riffs) from most songs throughout most songs.  Now show me one which has managed to do that and make sense within the musical (and conceptual) context of both the songs themselves and the album as a whole.
General "you?" Because I couldn't care less why you think it's good music - if you thought i wanted you to clarify it, this could be why you're getting called a butthurt fanboy. Albums: The Key of Throne, Far Away from the Sun, Trans Europe Express, and Phaedra all come to mind.

In other news, MetalUnderground picked up the Burzum-Haiti connection:

Album Sales of New Burzum Album Belus to Contribute to Haiti Relief (http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=53589)
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: hoodwink on March 04, 2010, 09:13:00 AM
In other news, MetalUnderground picked up the Burzum-Haiti connection:

Album Sales of New Burzum Album Belus to Contribute to Haiti Relief (http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=53589)

on a word press blog with two posts.  this has to be a goof, right
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Andrew on March 06, 2010, 06:48:09 PM
http://cosmicdreamland.blogspot.com/2010/03/vargs-insecurity-death-of-burzum.html (http://cosmicdreamland.blogspot.com/2010/03/vargs-insecurity-death-of-burzum.html)
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: ShitFaced on March 07, 2010, 12:47:55 AM
You can analyze this shit to death but there's no point. It's obvious Belus isn't as good as the earlier Burzum albums. If you find it to be a good album regardless, that's completely reasonable. I like it myself. It's possible that Varg forgot what it takes to make a timeless album. It's possible that he's making music for his fans now and not himself, resulting in less personal music. I say we wait until the next album - maybe Varg will step up.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: E on March 07, 2010, 03:22:15 AM
When listening to or playing music they can escape to a romantic fantasy where they are powerful and in control.

If that is all you get out of Burzum, maybe you should just speak for yourself. And start exploring classical.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: NHA on March 07, 2010, 04:01:17 AM
Quote
Metal is about power. The reasons why people become interested in extreme metal vary, but many love it because they do not experience power enough in their own lives.

Sounds like how American Liberals tend to view power worshippers in general. ie. if you like power you must secretly have a complex that you are trying to overcompensate for and you should really just mellow out man.

For most people security/insecurity is transient and context specific, and most of the population is nowhere near a position of real power.

Besides it could be argued that metal doesn't make the listener feel powerful but the exact opposite.

The original "heavy" aesthetic is probably from the church. Cathedrals are designed to loom over villages, and organs are designed to crush people with a wall of sound - the whole point is to dominate mortals into submission.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: kultron1 on March 08, 2010, 05:38:16 PM
Just got the vinyl today, I think the album is great. I like it better as a whole more than Filosofem, and definitely more than some of his earlier gaffs (War, the Crying Orc). Who cares if some of the money is going to Haiti? It's not like Varg can collect on it. The album speaks to me, and if doesn't to you, why make a stink about it?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sepulchral Voice on March 08, 2010, 05:52:06 PM
Just got the vinyl today, I think the album is great. I like it better as a whole more than Filosofem, and definitely more than some of his earlier gaffs (War, the Crying Orc). Who cares if some of the money is going to Haiti? It's not like Varg can collect on it. The album speaks to me, and if doesn't to you, why make a stink about it?
Ahh, you had me going there.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Conservationist on March 09, 2010, 09:16:20 AM
The album speaks to me, and if doesn't to you, why make a stink about it?

Why ever speak out against a bad idea or false thing?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Thamuz on March 09, 2010, 05:02:56 PM
The album speaks to me, and if doesn't to you, why make a stink about it?

Why ever speak out against a bad idea or false thing?
I don't know - why ever deny that someone with intelligence might like something that you find false or a bad idea?

Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Humanicide on March 11, 2010, 02:20:55 PM
So I finally heard this album.

Not that anyone cares, but here's my take on it.

I was not expecting something like old Burzum. In fact, I was not expecting it to be as good as old Burzum. It isn't. That being said, there are some excellent songs and moments (I'm partial to Glemselens Elv), and Varg really does know how to make repetition work. However, there are times where the album genuinely drags, in a boring way that Burzum never had before.

I'll need to listen to it more to formulate a more concrete opinion (as of now I've only listened to it maybe 5 times), but so far this is neither the triumph of Burzum nor the total failing either. Its a middle-of-the-road album. Despite what some people will tell me, I do not see anything wrong with that. No artist has a perfect track record (except for some classical composers, smartasses, I know that). We're talking metal here.

As of now, I like it but I am slightly disappointed.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: En Vind Av Sorg on March 12, 2010, 04:12:06 AM
i second what deadite and others have said. i can enjoy this album but it is not close to what i expect (in terms of quality) from Burzum. it also seems that Varg is lost in a web of bullshit. my two cents.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: the spine on March 12, 2010, 02:09:37 PM
So after 6 or so plays I would say Belus is sub par, not a heaping turd like some here in the aspie nerd underground claim - just really disappointing.

I still think Varg has the potential to make fantastic music, but he put this album together far too quickly. Iff he gave the songs conclusions, or the journey like voyage like on old Bumzur they could have been mindblowing. Glemselens Elv is realy the only song that impresses me - it has the hypnotic beauty that only Varg can capture so well -  If Glemselens Elv had the kind of dramatic movement and revalation that you would find at 4:57 on Det Som En Gang Var it could have been his best work to date. Besides this the rest of Belus is more or less garbage/filler. Most of the rest of the album he introduces the themes, then recycles them through out the song (see Belus' Død, & Keliohesten) - no journey. I get that this is the kind of structure he did with Filosofem, but it just isint working, it's in no way hypnotic. If he puts more thought into where the songs will go, the next Bumzur album will be colossal.

Then again he wrote all four Bumzur albums within a year...so maybe it wasn't put together to quickly, maybe he has just lost it.

Still, I look forward to the next Bumzur and still have alot of faith in what his music is capable of!
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: TableauxParisiens on April 13, 2010, 01:17:59 PM
Is this what we've come to?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNRGDeXpnvU

Edit: Is Belus Doed ripped off from Jesus Tod? I may be handicapped to think this was intentional as to mirror the storyline of Jesus Tod.. If not, how can you so blatantly plagiarize your own material?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sepulchral Voice on April 13, 2010, 04:15:18 PM
Is this what we've come to?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNRGDeXpnvU

Edit: Is Belus Doed ripped off from Jesus Tod? I may be handicapped to think this was intentional as to mirror the storyline of Jesus Tod.. If not, how can you so blatantly plagiarize your own material?


The melodies from Jesus Tod have recurred a few times in the Burzum discography. The verse in Black Spell of Destruction slightly resembles the progression in Jesus Tod, the melody is also in Balferth Baldrs. Belus Dod also mimicks the opening of Daudi Baldrs exactly (not trying to hide anything). I'd say it was more of a "remember me?" gesture.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: nothingnowhere on April 13, 2010, 06:13:11 PM
I can think of quite a few classical composers who blatantly plagiarize their own material!
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sammaellofi on April 14, 2010, 09:25:56 AM
That doesn't mean it is completely off the hook of responsibility just because a higher class of musicians showed similar error.


Then again, two of the greatest Bathory songs (and most famililiar) are the exact same riff and almost same structure as eachother and rarely dp people complain about it.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: nothingnowhere on April 14, 2010, 02:52:32 PM
That doesn't mean it is completely off the hook of responsibility just because a higher class of musicians showed similar error.

There is nothing wrong with re-using ideas in a new context.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sepulchral Voice on April 14, 2010, 06:58:17 PM
Then again, two of the greatest Bathory songs (and most famililiar) are the exact same riff and almost same structure as eachother and rarely dp people complain about it.
I'm not sure which ones you are talking about.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: bovine on April 14, 2010, 07:19:50 PM
I think he's talking about "Enter the Eternal Fire" and "A Fine Day to Die"

After the shock and awe of the fact that Burzum released a new album has worn off, Belus is still solid to me. I don't think he could have done any better given his circumstances. I just hope the album's relative success doesn't give him any delusions of grandeur, I'd rather he stop here after showing he's still barely got it in him than continue and make a fool of himself.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Eleison on April 14, 2010, 07:54:40 PM
That doesn't mean it is completely off the hook of responsibility just because a higher class of musicians showed similar error.

There is nothing wrong with re-using ideas in a new context.

Exactly, it's not an error nor is it plagiarism.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sepulchral Voice on April 14, 2010, 09:03:31 PM
I think he's talking about "Enter the Eternal Fire" and "A Fine Day to Die"
If that's the case, they aren't that similar.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: we hope you die on April 15, 2010, 03:31:24 AM
I've read the article before, its focus is on leitmotifs throughout an album and not re-using things on completely seperate peices of work.

In case this is a dsitraction from the main issue. I feel that Varg released this album in haste and as a result it is passable at best. Maybe once he's got a feel the musical climate today he may release a more interesting album. The problem is that Burzum at the time was at the cutting edge of Norwegian blakc metal, and now he's behind the times like many artists that have so much influence, they begin to release stuff that is outdone by the artists they influenced, and as a result sound derivative.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Dylar on April 15, 2010, 08:11:00 AM
I smell the faint odor of Modern Thought wafting through this thread.  Some here would do well to remember that there is no actual relationship between novelty and quality.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: nothingnowhere on April 15, 2010, 09:36:17 AM
I've read the article before, its focus is on leitmotifs throughout an album and not re-using things on completely seperate peices of work.

In case this is a dsitraction from the main issue. I feel that Varg released this album in haste and as a result it is passable at best. Maybe once he's got a feel the musical climate today he may release a more interesting album. The problem is that Burzum at the time was at the cutting edge of Norwegian blakc metal, and now he's behind the times like many artists that have so much influence, they begin to release stuff that is outdone by the artists they influenced, and as a result sound derivative.

Cutting edge? Behind? Who cares? You're suggesting that because new black metal bands are new, they are better.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sammaellofi on April 15, 2010, 01:51:43 PM
Agreed.  Being timely doesn't make anyone good.  His poor album is not poor because it is behind the times, but because it is behind its potential.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: we hope you die on April 15, 2010, 02:35:04 PM
What a meaningless statement, please clarify what you mean. What potential was Burzum going to have after an extended prison sentence and a huge amount of pressure from forums like this to produce a groundbreaking album after 11 years of musical silence, coupled with the fact the Varg is a very arrogant man who is always looking to shock and divide people? No art exists in a vacuum.

I'm not suggesting that black metal is better by virtue of being new, I'm suggesting that Belus sounds particularly dull because it sounds like bands that are derivative of old Burzum. 

And no, I'm not suggesting that to make good music you must be culturally aware of what the kids are into, I'm aware that true art is far deeper than that. But one of problems Belus suffers from given the circumstances of its release is the fact that it sounds like a band that takes a lot of influence from old Burzum but ends up being inferior. 
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Sammaellofi on April 16, 2010, 09:12:36 AM
What a meaningless statement, please clarify what you mean. What potential was Burzum going to have after an extended prison sentence and a huge amount of pressure from forums like this to produce a groundbreaking album after 11 years of musical silence, coupled with the fact the Varg is a very arrogant man who is always looking to shock and divide people? No art exists in a vacuum.

He was always an arrogant man looking to shock people and his musicianship has not failed him, so what real variables keep him from making great music?  This album, by the way, neither shocks nor divides.  It just lays flat and rises occassionally but goes no where that the older albums attempted.

As for clarifying my earlier statement, I meant this:  HIs new album might be behind the times, but that has nothing to do with why it is bad.  It is bad because, whether this was a new artist, an old terrible artist, or an accomplished genius, the album is flat and undaring, as well as lacking in quality, though not completely.  It is just mediocre, and we have all seen that Burzum has risen above mediocrity in the past.  Yes there are new variables, but music like "My Journey to the Stars" and "Det Som Engang Var" were brilliant for their ability to rise above their variables.  In order to enjoy Belus, one must constantly apologize to himself or others due to the conditions that brought it on.  Earlier Burzum needed no apology, whatsoever.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: we hope you die on April 17, 2010, 07:01:10 AM
I am in complete agreement with you over that. I wasmerely speculating over the reasons for the drop in quality. I do not wish to excuse Belus by any means, but i will be putting more pressure on the next albumto produce the goods, as it does feel like Belus was a rushed release.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: antithetikal on April 17, 2010, 06:42:35 PM
Perhaps he simply lost the touch after all these years in jail.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: antithetikal on April 17, 2010, 07:00:24 PM
True, but the last ambient album came in 1999 which is ten years ago. A lot can happen during such a long period of time.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: TableauxParisiens on April 17, 2010, 07:57:45 PM
Varg has access to the internet. The fact is, he became well acquainted with globalization, the views on his work. Layers of shit started to seep into his head.

If Varg had been in his cell without contact to the outside world, this work would have been grandiose.

The earlier scene was grandiose because it was so detached from the global feeling.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Eleison on June 26, 2010, 03:19:14 AM
I've been avoiding this album recently, but today curiosity finally got the better of me, I wish it hadn't.  This is quite possibly the most disappointing album ever released.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: on June 26, 2010, 05:53:14 AM
This is quite possibly the most disappointing album ever released.

Hyperbole is the best thing in the world ever!!
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Forbinator on June 26, 2010, 06:10:53 AM
I still think it's a very good black metal album. But not a good Burzum album.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Eleison on June 26, 2010, 06:50:02 AM
This is quite possibly the most disappointing album ever released.

Hyperbole is the best thing in the world ever!!

I will make no concessions here, this album sounds like 15 years worth of black metal cliches rolled up and neatly packaged for the consumer, with the work 'Burzum' printed on the front cover just to prove that this really is tr00 black metal and not bland pop music.  This is pathetic, soulless, worthless crap, completely devoid of any content whatsoever, and considering the stature this band has held in the past I think my previous statement was justified.  We should not make concessions to this album just because of some aesthetic qualities leftover from past releases, if we do we undermine everything that Burzum stood for.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Humanicide on June 26, 2010, 09:16:18 AM
I still think it's a very good black metal album. But not a good Burzum album.

I am in complete agreement.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: AnHero on June 26, 2010, 09:45:34 AM
I will make no concessions here, this album sounds like 15 years worth of black metal cliches rolled up and neatly packaged for the consumer, with the work 'Burzum' printed on the front cover just to prove that this really is tr00 black metal and not bland pop music.  This is pathetic, soulless, worthless crap, completely devoid of any content whatsoever, and considering the stature this band has held in the past I think my previous statement was justified.  We should not make concessions to this album just because of some aesthetic qualities leftover from past releases, if we do we undermine everything that Burzum stood for.

Can you explain how it is so much different than any other Burzum album? There are many weak points in the discography up until know.

It's not great, but it is just as Burzum as previous albums and exactly what one would suspect if he listened to Filosofem, Daudi Baldrs, Hildskjalf, then Belus in order. The development in composition approach is pretty clear.

What's also strange is that then some people will respond by saying that Filosofem wasn't that great either, or that it is "pop music", but what is the significant difference between Filosofem and HLTO? They show a marked similarity in composition? And how does one get off calling any of it pop music? It doesn't have to be pop music to be bad, I think you're just throwing out as many negatives about it as possible.

Nothing about this albums sounds like the Troo Black Metal stereotype. It sounds even less commercial than previous albums. Especially the weird clean vocal parts. They're bad, but they're not there to sound Tr00 or commerical. Nor were they inspired by hipsterism.

In terms of intention, this was meant to be his most meaningful album. I was supposed to tell a meaningful story. He just messed up.

And I think the homosexual stories regarding Burzum are a bit premature.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Nightspirit on June 26, 2010, 10:18:41 AM
Can you explain how it is so much different than any other Burzum album? There are many weak points in the discography up until know.

It's not great, but it is just as Burzum as previous albums and exactly what one would suspect if he listened to Filosofem, Daudi Baldrs, Hildskjalf, then Belus in order. The development in composition approach is pretty clear.

What's also strange is that then some people will respond by saying that Filosofem wasn't that great either, or that it is "pop music", but what is the significant difference between Filosofem and HLTO? They show a marked similarity in composition? And how does one get off calling any of it pop music? It doesn't have to be pop music to be bad, I think you're just throwing out as many negatives about it as possible.

Nothing about this albums sounds like the Troo Black Metal stereotype. It sounds even less commercial than previous albums. Especially the weird clean vocal parts. They're bad, but they're not there to sound Tr00 or commerical. Nor were they inspired by hipsterism.

In terms of intention, this was meant to be his most meaningful album. I was supposed to tell a meaningful story. He just messed up.

And I think the homosexual stories regarding Burzum are a bit premature.


I hate to be the one to be the bitch here, but it doesn't sound like you're too familiar with Burzum's work. Belus bears only a template of similarity to the previous four efforts. If you're looking for style, then there's a million Burzum clones out there that did it better than Varg himself on Belus.

There IS a significant difference between Filosofem and HLTO. The latter realized the highest potential of it's wave of black metal and ended it by proxy. There was simply nothing more that could be done afterwards of significance. There was need for a new wave with a new approach. Filosofem is a pop album, but that doesn't mean its bad. I feel like that album prefaced a lot of Drone Doom to come in the following years. Nobody's getting off by calling it that, we're just calling it as we see it. The composition is highly different, one possesses a metal formula, one has a pop formula.

Belus is highly commercial. When Varg is on guitar world magazine, you can't sit behind your computer and bullshit anyone by saying Belus wasn't commercialized. I'm sure you're also referring to the albums released before he convicted of the murder right? Like Burzum, Det Som Engang Var and Aske? I'm sure they were highly commercialized by Deathlike Silence in the slums of fucking Oslo Norway.  Varg's always been big in the media, but Belus was highly overhyped, overpromoted and under-abled in effort.

The weird clean vocal parts were also used on Det Som Engang Var. It's nothing new.

Varg was not homosexual. Euronymous maybe toyed with the idea in reference to blasphemy and anti-christian sentiments.

This was not a meaningful album at all. It's a half-assed effort. It will be forgotten easily and if you actually enjoy the music, then good for you! It's going to take more than a bunch of statements that run perpendicular to my frame of Burzum reference to change my opinion about any of it.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: AnHero on June 26, 2010, 01:50:29 PM
There IS a significant difference between Filosofem and HLTO. The latter realized the highest potential of it's wave of black metal and ended it by proxy. There was simply nothing more that could be done afterwards of significance. There was need for a new wave with a new approach. Filosofem is a pop album, but that doesn't mean its bad. I feel like that album prefaced a lot of Drone Doom to come in the following years. Nobody's getting off by calling it that, we're just calling it as we see it. The composition is highly different, one possesses a metal formula, one has a pop formula.

Could you explain how it is pop music? Or am I to take your word for it?

Belus is highly commercial. When Varg is on guitar world magazine, you can't sit behind your computer and bullshit anyone by saying Belus wasn't commercialized. I'm sure you're also referring to the albums released before he convicted of the murder right? Like Burzum, Det Som Engang Var and Aske? I'm sure they were highly commercialized by Deathlike Silence in the slums of fucking Oslo Norway.  Varg's always been big in the media, but Belus was highly overhyped, overpromoted and under-abled in effort.

The fact that it is promoted through commercial means doesn't make it commercial music. If you could reach all the readers of Guitar World with your message, wouldn't you?

Quote
The weird clean vocal parts were also used on Det Som Engang Var. It's nothing new.

They were especially bad.

Quote
Varg was not homosexual. Euronymous maybe toyed with the idea in reference to blasphemy and anti-christian sentiments.

I was referring to fictional stories in the vein of the ones for Metallica and Death, used to mock bands that made a career out of making a misrepresentation of metal. Burzum didn't do this.

Quote
This was not a meaningful album at all. It's a half-assed effort. It will be forgotten easily and if you actually enjoy the music, then good for you! It's going to take more than a bunch of statements that run perpendicular to my frame of Burzum reference to change my opinion about any of it.

It was meant to be meaningful is what I said. This album is being represented as a willful attempt to cash in on his own representation when to me it doesn't look like that at all. Everyone here is turning their backs on someone whom they once praised and already looking for another hero to jerk off. see: http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/index.php/topic,9263.0.html

It just disappoints me the way you all apparently form opinions.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: istaros on June 26, 2010, 03:17:53 PM
Who gives a shit about a hipster's disappointment?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on June 26, 2010, 05:25:42 PM
God, you people are fags.  I'm not even drunk.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Eleison on June 26, 2010, 10:03:28 PM
I will make no concessions here, this album sounds like 15 years worth of black metal cliches rolled up and neatly packaged for the consumer, with the work 'Burzum' printed on the front cover just to prove that this really is tr00 black metal and not bland pop music.  This is pathetic, soulless, worthless crap, completely devoid of any content whatsoever, and considering the stature this band has held in the past I think my previous statement was justified.  We should not make concessions to this album just because of some aesthetic qualities leftover from past releases, if we do we undermine everything that Burzum stood for.

Can you explain how it is so much different than any other Burzum album? There are many weak points in the discography up until know.


The difference is that this album is nothing more than an attempt to synthesize a particular style, which, despite the fact that it may be related to previous works on an aesthetic level, does not share their organizing principle or their spirit.  The weaknesses of past albums were always kept in check by the intensity of expression that was characteristic of the old Burzum, this album is technically more consistent than previous works, but fails at communicating anything meaningful.  It is clear from your posts that you only evaluate music in terms of technical competence, in which case I would suggest that black metal is not the genre for you.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cenotaph on June 28, 2010, 08:31:01 PM
My opinions of the record would be ones of disappointment which to some extent i saw coming. I wasn't too particularly into the Burzum ambient albums. He had 17 some odd years to write a Black Metal Masterpiece. I think the attention around the album was the closest thing to watching a Black Metal legend freshly out of prison for murder succumb to the idea of cashing in on his fame. With the movie that stars people casted in mormon vampire films for 13 year old fat chicks, a very mediocre long awaited album, what next a Burzum tour?
Are we gonna watch Southern Lord pay for a Burzum Sunn O))) world tour where Maelific and Stephen O'Malley can be Vargs band? Some things should remain dead if there original intended outlooks become compromised. Burzum will always be legendary and an important aspect of black metal, but as time goes on you cant always be on top of your game and certain record become an embarrassing omen to a bands integrity.

The albums is a Burzum album influenced by Burzum clone bands. It would have been impressive if somebody else did it, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on September 24, 2010, 01:27:57 AM
Belus : an album crushed by the weight of expectations, the realization that men are not gods, and subsequent reveling in destroying those gods. Not grouping all those who legitimately dislike this, but much of the reaction to Belus mirrors the way Americans and British cannibalize celebrities after they've run their course through tabloid culture.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Nihilist News Network (NNN) on September 24, 2010, 07:47:33 AM
Belus : an album crushed by the weight of expectations, the realization that men are not gods, and subsequent reveling in destroying those gods. Not grouping all those who legitimately dislike this, but much of the reaction to Belus mirrors the way Americans and British cannibalize celebrities after they've run their course through tabloid culture.

So you're saying it's as good as prior Burzum albums?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on September 24, 2010, 09:20:11 AM
No, and I don't think my post conveys that. This is a thread of extremes. No one can really handle that this is just "decent" or "ok".

I'm not sure I should have bumped this thread at all though. Maybe it's time for us to move on...
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: lord.aspie on September 24, 2010, 10:05:57 AM
No, and I don't think my post conveys that. This is a thread of extremes. No one can really handle that this is just "decent" or "ok".

I'm not sure I should have bumped this thread at all though. Maybe it's time for us to move on...

In the context of past Burzum it's pretty fucking awfull, just like Anthems is a turd with ITNSE in context.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Nihilist News Network (NNN) on September 24, 2010, 10:20:17 AM
No, and I don't think my post conveys that. This is a thread of extremes. No one can really handle that this is just "decent" or "ok".

I'm not sure I should have bumped this thread at all though. Maybe it's time for us to move on...

If you don't think Belus is as good as prior Burzum albums, then this might be misleading:

Belus : an album crushed by the weight of expectations, the realization that men are not gods, and subsequent reveling in destroying those gods. Not grouping all those who legitimately dislike this, but much of the reaction to Belus mirrors the way Americans and British cannibalize celebrities after they've run their course through tabloid culture.

Can you see how that would be the case?

The rage against Belus isn't celebrity-worship, it's disappointment.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on September 24, 2010, 11:44:21 AM
English as a second language? The premise of that post conveys that ;

A. He is a fallen idol to some. If I felt it was as good as past releases I wouldn't have made the premise. I would have attacked the idea in the same way cragest has been.

B. The weight of expectations crushes it. Meaning people were hoping it would be better than it was. Meaning it wasn't as good as the Burzum standard.

C. This mirrors the way tabloid culture destroys celebrities after they've run their course. Meaning Burzum has ran its course.


<forum hair splitting garbage post>

Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Vesupria on September 25, 2010, 01:57:37 AM
In searching for the best in life (and in this specific case; music) I employ the following system to listening to music to save "wasting time" on mediocre / worthless / below par releases.

Anything that I consider to be 55% or less is attributed to the compost bin. I don't bother comparing this to the greats, I'd rather spend time focusing on the very best (ie focusing on the positive end of the bell curve distribution). On a 5-star system like I use on RYM, this is a 0.5.

Unfortunately Belus (whilst it certainly delivers in a few patches) is inconsistent, and lacks the vision and spirit of the early work. It does not create any resonance within my mind; it doesn't help me dream.

Perhaps the "disappointment" is a form of celebrity murder, ala the tabloids, but is there any reason why we should bother with albums that would scrap up a C-grade rating if they were lucky?

It simply does not hold up. I am actively searching for the best 100-150 albums in Metal, and this is no where near it as far as I am concerned.

Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on September 25, 2010, 04:11:38 AM
Those 100 albums might be better appreciated if you listened to the next 100 once and a while too. Even primo pussy gets boring man.


This situation is like watching your favorite fighter continue to step into the arena after his prime. Flashes of the old footwork, speed and talent might be there, and the joy of just watching him compete is enough for some fans. Yet it's perfectly reasonable why other true diehard fans of said fighter would rather avoid watching him compete, in that state, all together. I liken this more to the first Leon Spinks fight than Larry Holmes or Trevor Berbick.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Vesupria on September 25, 2010, 05:38:29 AM
Of the next hundred, releases by perhaps Zyklon-B, Manes, or even I Shalt Become stand out a lot more than 'Belus.' Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on September 25, 2010, 05:59:18 AM
I don't listen to Burzum clones so I'd have no clue. Burzum is one of the relative few BM artists that ever engaged me deeply at all.

Death metal 666. I think it is a good time to remind everyone that Incantation, Slayer and Morbid Angel musically rip anything Burzum has ever done into pieces.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on September 25, 2010, 06:00:04 AM
Scratch that, I did like some of Drudkh.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Veritas on September 25, 2010, 06:20:09 AM
Death metal 666. I think it is a good time to remind everyone that Incantation, Slayer and Morbid Angel musically rip anything Burzum has ever done into pieces.

In terms of technicality, presumably.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on September 25, 2010, 06:22:58 AM
Technically, spiritually, magically, thematically whateverically.


Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on September 25, 2010, 07:24:34 AM
Or not, as the case may be is.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on September 25, 2010, 10:03:44 AM
When a staunch DEATH METAL elitist and troll meets an unabashed Burzum fanboy...


Yo here is another confession ;  Burzum isn't even the best Black Metal.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Athanasius contra mundum on September 25, 2010, 10:09:45 AM
When a staunch DEATH METAL elitist and troll meets an unabashed Burzum fanboy...


Yo here is another confession ;  Burzum isn't even the best Black Metal.

That's a bit unfair, not everyone who likes Burzum is a Burzum fanboy. I listen to a lot more death metal, and I listen to death metal a lot more often, but I still feel Burzum is of higher quality. Is Hvis Lyset Tar Oss, which is probably their peak, necessarily my taste? No, I love listening to it when the time is right, but if you're going to find me listening to Burzum regularly it's most likely going to be Det Som Engang Var or the self-titled I'm listening to. I know there's a stigma about Burzum being unbeatable by all of their fanboys, as you put it, but we don't need to shatter it by pretending that we hate the group, or that their quality is lower than it actually is, just to prove a point.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on September 25, 2010, 10:13:30 AM
ITNE > any Burzum.

Then again, very little (and no Metal) > ITNE.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on September 25, 2010, 03:28:48 PM
ITNE is where the pussification of Black Metal begins. Wrath of the Tyrant please.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on September 25, 2010, 08:55:28 PM
tl;dr: you prefer Death Metal.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Jim Necroslaughter on September 26, 2010, 06:30:00 AM
ITNE is where the pussification of Black Metal begins. Wrath of the Tyrant please.

bahhh, try the APEX of Black Metal.  The pussification is only in an aesthetic sense.  Pussy-aesthetics 666!
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Chains on September 27, 2010, 12:27:47 PM
I don't listen to Burzum clones so I'd have no clue. Burzum is one of the relative few BM artists that ever engaged me deeply at all.

Death metal 666. I think it is a good time to remind everyone that Incantation, Slayer and Morbid Angel musically rip anything Burzum has ever done into pieces.

You heretic you.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: LD50 on September 27, 2010, 03:44:32 PM
ITNE > any Burzum.

Then again, very little (and no Metal) > ITNE.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Nightspirit on September 27, 2010, 05:26:53 PM
ITNE is where the pussification of Black Metal begins. Wrath of the Tyrant please.

bahhh, try the APEX of Black Metal.  The pussification is only in an aesthetic sense.  Pussy-aesthetics 666!

I think the different sides of the argument are all valid. Whereas I consider ITNSE to be InTeNSE as all living hell, I find myself always forgetting about its greatness for a year, two years, even three years maybe. Then one day I'll cycle back to it and by the end of "Into The Infinity of Thoughts" I'm calling my best friend saying "You know, that really is the best metal ever recorded" ... then I'll forget about it for a while again, though always maintaining my conviction about its supremacy over all other metal.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on September 27, 2010, 08:55:33 PM
Legion please.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Humanicide on September 28, 2010, 11:33:28 AM
Legion please.

Deicide was never worth it. Ever. Give me "pussified" black metal any day over that braindead swill that they try to pass off as death metal.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: we hope you die on September 28, 2010, 02:07:12 PM
What's with all the iconoclasm? ALL the above mentioned works are great for different reasons. Over compensating by suddenly claiming that they're shit won't remove the dogma, because there is no dogma. Fanboy crap aside, these works are part of a few that we can all agree on as being great, and the fact that all the more recent works by these artists is of a lesser quality doesn't change that.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on September 28, 2010, 04:25:44 PM
What's with all the iconoclasm? ALL the above mentioned works are great for different reasons. Over compensating by suddenly claiming that they're shit won't remove the dogma, because there is no dogma. Fanboy crap aside, these works are part of a few that we can all agree on as being great, and the fact that all the more recent works by these artists is of a lesser quality doesn't change that.

What is with all this grounded rationality all of a sudden at the tail end of a 15 page shitstorm? Let us troll in peace.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: we hope you die on September 29, 2010, 02:56:58 AM
ha ha, forgive me.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: scourge on December 12, 2010, 01:01:28 PM
Burzum - Belus review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNRGDeXpnvU) offers similar negative conclusion, but from a bad technical production perspective. How would this reviewer react to Transylvanian Hunger?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Parasite on December 12, 2010, 02:10:00 PM
This guy is a fool.  he also needs his arms chopped off.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: TheDeathlyLama on December 30, 2010, 04:52:10 PM
Burzum - Belus' Dod is awesome. I love the way it sounds, I really didn't expect much because he was out of it for so long accept for the synth shit, but this is amazing.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Wolfgang on January 01, 2011, 02:44:39 AM
I don't think I've listened to this album more than ten times since I originally discussed it here. Chock it into that giant pile of "good" metal that I never, ever actually listen to.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: hoodwink on January 01, 2011, 11:05:36 AM
Kind of amusing how many year-end lists from the larger media outlets that cover metal have Belus in their top ten, isn't it
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on September 19, 2011, 10:17:48 AM
Just relistened to this.  It dies with Sverddans, and dies again by the end of Morgenroede, but I was actually pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed this album.  It doesn't reach the same heights as Hvis Lyset Tar Oss or Det Som Engang Var, and isn't as fresh/exciting/retarded as the debut and Aske, but it's still way above most of the Metal released over the past ten years.

Much better than Fallen.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Ksatria/Gang_Rapist on October 15, 2011, 12:57:19 PM
I'm a defender of this list

http://www.examiner.com/metal-music-in-houston/best-metal-of-the-decade-1999-2009

and Belus doesn't touch it even nearly, though it is entertaining.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: LD50 on November 16, 2011, 03:50:51 PM
Just relistened to this.  It dies with Sverddans, and dies again by the end of Morgenroede, but I was actually pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed this album.  It doesn't reach the same heights as Hvis Lyset Tar Oss or Det Som Engang Var, and isn't as fresh/exciting/retarded as the debut and Aske, but it's still way above most of the Metal released over the past ten years.

Much better than Fallen.

And maybe not worse than filosofem, despite of a completely mistaken production, and the vocal style.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: lafindumonde on November 17, 2011, 06:59:45 AM
I just got off the phone with Varg, and I really had sympathy for the guy.

He knows he half-assed the album, but he hoped true Burzum fans would understand. He gets no royalties from the earlier albums, just got out of prison, not even McDonalds or the Corner Kebab would hire him. He's flat broke, plus they're expecting him to pay child support! Poor guy figured if he released some older material while focusing on a brighter-side-of-life Philosophy (gotta try to stay optimistic!) a lot of his problems would finally go away. Basically the only guys who would talk to him were the record execs. Ah well, I'd say most people in his position would have done the same thing.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: LD50 on November 17, 2011, 11:47:00 AM
I just got off the phone with Varg, and I really had sympathy for the guy.

He knows he half-assed the album, but he hoped true Burzum fans would understand. He gets no royalties from the earlier albums, just got out of prison, not even McDonalds or the Corner Kebab would hire him. He's flat broke, plus they're expecting him to pay child support! Poor guy figured if he released some older material while focusing on a brighter-side-of-life Philosophy (gotta try to stay optimistic!) a lot of his problems would finally go away. Basically the only guys who would talk to him were the record execs. Ah well, I'd say most people in his position would have done the same thing.

Right, that's why I said if ppl seriously had expected him to behave a different way...

And I really think Filosofem hasn't more to offer than Belus, but previous albums are another history
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Conservationist on November 19, 2011, 05:10:45 AM
I just got off the phone with Varg, and I really had sympathy for the guy.

He knows he half-assed the album, but he hoped true Burzum fans would understand. He gets no royalties from the earlier albums, just got out of prison, not even McDonalds or the Corner Kebab would hire him. He's flat broke, plus they're expecting him to pay child support! Poor guy figured if he released some older material while focusing on a brighter-side-of-life Philosophy (gotta try to stay optimistic!) a lot of his problems would finally go away. Basically the only guys who would talk to him were the record execs. Ah well, I'd say most people in his position would have done the same thing.

He made an error in doing this. He ruined the good name of Burzum for a cash-in.

Better to just do a covers album.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: aquarius on November 24, 2011, 09:03:16 PM
I just got off the phone with Varg, and I really had sympathy for the guy.

He knows he half-assed the album, but he hoped true Burzum fans would understand. He gets no royalties from the earlier albums, just got out of prison, not even McDonalds or the Corner Kebab would hire him. He's flat broke, plus they're expecting him to pay child support! Poor guy figured if he released some older material while focusing on a brighter-side-of-life Philosophy (gotta try to stay optimistic!) a lot of his problems would finally go away. Basically the only guys who would talk to him were the record execs. Ah well, I'd say most people in his position would have done the same thing.

Unfortunately that's not even true. He actually believes the new stuff is better, subconsciously he has become extremely disillusioned and desperately tries to bridge the gap between the quality/spirit of past works with competence in technique, but it doesn't even remotely hold up to music with spirit (and the latest album of re-recorded works will really cement that fact). At this point it is obvious he took the path of least resistance and should probably have concentrated on political stuff instead.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: hoodwink on November 26, 2011, 06:00:32 PM
I just got off the phone with Varg, and I really had sympathy for the guy.

He knows he half-assed the album, but he hoped true Burzum fans would understand. He gets no royalties from the earlier albums, just got out of prison, not even McDonalds or the Corner Kebab would hire him. He's flat broke, plus they're expecting him to pay child support! Poor guy figured if he released some older material while focusing on a brighter-side-of-life Philosophy (gotta try to stay optimistic!) a lot of his problems would finally go away. Basically the only guys who would talk to him were the record execs. Ah well, I'd say most people in his position would have done the same thing.

Unfortunately that's not even true. He actually believes the new stuff is better, subconsciously he has become extremely disillusioned and desperately tries to bridge the gap between the quality/spirit of past works with competence in technique, but it doesn't even remotely hold up to music with spirit (and the latest album of re-recorded works will really cement that fact). At this point it is obvious he took the path of least resistance and should probably have concentrated on political stuff instead.

In short, Varg needs to be forgiven for what's he done with Belus, Fallen and this latest hunk of mediocrity.  Whether you agree with his motives or not, Varg Vikernes is paying the price for having conviction enough to act, and consequently finds himself in the bleakest depths of a situation most on this forum could never hope to comprehend.  Varg 2011 is what happens when you make decisions hoping to trigger an evolutionary leap but are forced to come crawling back to the system you thought you'd surmounted.  The much larger prison Varg will reside in for the rest of his life is one that savagely resists and resents being shunned, and will opportunistically take any slight advantage to shackle one permanently.  

I know nothing of Varg's situation re: paying child support, but as soon as he decided to impregnate someone, he ceded any control of his life.  The same is true to an extent once he was tried and convicted of killing Euronymous.  When he was caught and subsequently imprisoned, he became the state's problem, and, by extension, the state's property.  So, he now finds himself in a situation where he's required to forfeit any semblance of values or dignity in order to meet very real-world obligations.  These obligations don't take kindly to talk of Norse mythology or "trve black metal."  Those obligations (and the system that propounds them) have transformed Varg's philosophical leanings into the idle musings of so many deadbeats.  The people he thought he'd  burned down with the Fantoft Stave Church were all just biding their time until the arsonist inevitably returned, hat in hand, to ask for their mercy.  Once the process is complete, Varg Vikernes is reborn as just another undereducated dreamer, but with a criminal record and socially-crippling associations.  His sole responsibility now is to make ends meet, so if he shits all over his "legacy," so be it; once you're in the position he's in, artistic integrity is a luxury not worth abiding.  

None of this is said with the slightest degree of bitterness or gloating - I genuinely feel for Varg and am sympathetic to his plight.  Unfortunately, reality doesn't look as kindly on outliers as do many of us on this forum, myself included.  
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: death metal black metal on November 26, 2011, 07:46:56 PM
I heard the new version of "Ea, Lord of the Depths." -1- There was no need to re-record it; -2- the re-recording adds nothing and takes a lot away, while "standardizing" this for rock listeners. It reminds me of what Absurd did with their 15-years-war CD. I respect both these musicians to a great degree.

I will now advance a controversial idea:

Association with neo-Nazi groups destroys every goddamn thing it touches.

I am not arguing against Nazism here, although frankly I find losing a war so that you can carry out a genocide to be sort of silly; I am not a Nazi and I refute their ideology because -1- it was not extreme enough and -2- it was destructive in many ways, most notably The Holocaust but also in losing to a joint American/Russian team. That's sort of the definition of incompetence there.

However, neo-Nazi groups in general destroy people by forcing them to become social outcasts, convincing them of the need for an apocalyptic race war, and then once they've bought that load of shit, abandoning them as soon as they either get busted (for they will most likely turn informant) or fail to be "extreme" enough, which can be as simple as not hating black people or Jewish people.

Racism and hatred are not the answer. To my mind, traditional conservatism with a huge dose of futurism is. This may include nationalism, but nationalism does not include hatred. It is simply a superior principle for the design of civilizations, or at least part of that principle. Anti-racism and anti-hatred are also not the answer. These are non-questions and crusades in search of a goal.

Varg is in a bad way. We offered him content control over Burzum.com, and he approved everything on the site, then had a tantrum and demanded we delete the site. There is no honor in his behavior anymore, and no poetry in his soul, which is why new Burzum sucks and this re-release sucks and everything he's going to do from now on will be pandering to the whorish crowd, which is exactly what he never wanted to do as a youthful idealist. By doing so, he "appears" to refute his ideals, although I'll never believe that.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Svmmoned on November 27, 2011, 07:57:41 AM
Mostly agreed. There is a real problem with finding something worthy within neo-nazism. However Jews are problematic and destructive to things you proposed as ideals, at least as long as they are operating within other societies. It repeats over and over again, but some still claim that remedy is even more of what created this unhealthy situation. It is - if you want to sacrifice something important or if you are a propagator of unlimited mercifulness. Either we are traditionalists and we know how to take clues from history or lets ignore it entirely and abandon pretense. Nazism didn't destroyed either Absurd, Veles, Graveland or Darkthrone, it helped to reorient spirit of metal from christian dualism. Agree that it was on lower levels of emanation of greater ideas as Reich itself was such simplified and institutionalized lower form. What destroyed their relevancy (Graveland is still solid, it just happens that I don't want to listen to it) is metal life span. As in case of Burzum and Morbid Angel it was conservated/suspended for long time and now it strikes with double force. Carcass, At the Gates, Atrocity, Celtic Frost (there were worse cases but somehow I can't recall them now) - it's the same story but without such hiatus. Darkthrone tried to fight against that. What you're talking about is more similar to problem with skinhead, christian and extreme leftist music. Take all positive inspiration which Third Reich (as more modern connector with the past) could possibly give and leave the rest.

I would say that what it takes to make a change is both love and hatred (full spectrum as many nationalists of 20th century noted) and being social outcast, at least on some spiritual level, but not as a result of weakness, incapability or sociopathy, in a manner of basement dweller. Rather simply as a result of being member of other, smaller caste placed within vast ocean of mediocrity, without cultural tools or social mechanisms to organize it. I think it's unavoidable and natural proportion, let's not pretend anything. They must however work within such context despite of being of other breed. It's also natural and it's their proper function. Fact that you don't love Jesus or thinks that people aren't equal also makes you a social outcast, especially when your surrounding happen to be inferior, which doesn't necessary means that you don't have a point.

I liked that back then:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060107011622/http://www.thepaganfront.com/pf.php?show=articles&article=1
http://web.archive.org/web/20051126155506/http://www.anus.com/metal/about/metal/nsbm_and_black_metal_after_1998.html

And I think that NSBM.org was a great testament to absolutely last relevant movement in black metal and a handful of bands (who needs more, after all it was always like that) representing it. And we know that bands originally, actually quite exaggeratedly, maybe maliciously, called N.S.B.M. were different than today's mass produced simple minded nazi/pagan propaganda. It should be brought back. Maybe as a tool against Der Stuermers and Nokturnal Mortums or satanist "nihilists".

As always, sorry for my gradually weakening skill in language.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: death metal black metal on November 28, 2011, 02:56:44 PM
It's necessary to separate personal politics from effective politics that address the nation as a whole.

A small group of outcasts is not useful; a productive plan for the future is.

Nazism is not that. In fact, everything it touches turns to waste. Once people step into the mindset of viewing life by race-only, all becomes skewed to that obsession.

Of course, all leftism/liberalism is insane. Not as dangerous as Nazism, but more likely to destroy a civilization. Nazism did not destroy Germany; liberalism will. All current mainstream conservatives are also failures because they do not heed conservative principles. All Greens are warmed-over leftists. All anarchists are impractical and/or sociopathic.

However, this doesn't touch the fact that Nazism is blight that encourages people to become race fanatics and commit impractical acts of violence.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on November 28, 2011, 03:19:07 PM
Nazism is not that. In fact, everything it touches turns to waste. Once people step into the mindset of viewing life by race-only, all becomes skewed to that obsession.

I stopped reading here.  What the fuck is this?  This anti-Nazism crap is total and utter bollocks, primarily because YOU'RE ONLY FOCUSING ON ONE FUCKING PART OF THEIR PLATFORM.  Talk about hypocricy.  "Oh, they're racits!!1!1, so we're going to ignore ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING that they've ever said or supported".

I apologise for seeming slightly angered by the vacuity of your post, but the quality is so totally absent that I cannot help but feel a righteous fury.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: hoodwink on November 28, 2011, 05:59:02 PM
Nazism is not that. In fact, everything it touches turns to waste. Once people step into the mindset of viewing life by race-only, all becomes skewed to that obsession.

I stopped reading here.  What the fuck is this?  This anti-Nazism crap is total and utter bollocks, primarily because YOU'RE ONLY FOCUSING ON ONE FUCKING PART OF THEIR PLATFORM.  Talk about hypocricy.  "Oh, they're racits!!1!1, so we're going to ignore ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING that they've ever said or supported".

I apologise for seeming slightly angered by the vacuity of your post, but the quality is so totally absent that I cannot help but feel a righteous fury.

his statement was accurate.  the court of public opinion or whatever you choose to call it has Varg by the short hairs now because certain affiliations make him a soft target.  this is the same reason many of the bands who're still active and were recording during the Norwegian black metal heyday have gone to great lengths to act as if they're pasts don't exist.  for the public to reach a verdict on the worth of an individual - and this goes quintuple when the individual is in a vulnerable state - they focus only on the most obvious and inflammatory aspects of the individual.  once you're branded with a label like "Nazi," it's virtually impossible to live down, regardless of the extent (or even accuracy) of the affiliation.  simplistic reasoning doesn't care about anything more than "ONE FUCKING PART OF THEIR PLATFORM."  that one part is sufficient to brand the person as a pariah.  most people are far less perceptive than you're giving them credit for, particularly when the timeless allure of incendiary words presents itself. 

also, I'm inclined to agree with was said earlier about Varg's politics not really being abandoned - I just don't think he has much of a choice other than to do what he's doing now.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on November 28, 2011, 06:32:17 PM
We're not talking about the perceptions of proles, we're talking about reality as is, and the statements in the post above my last are total, abominable blunders.  If, indeed, we are talking about the perceptions of proles, I've clearly been here way too long.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: fallot on November 28, 2011, 06:39:44 PM
Nazism is not that. In fact, everything it touches turns to waste. Once people step into the mindset of viewing life by race-only, all becomes skewed to that obsession.

I stopped reading here.  What the fuck is this?  This anti-Nazism crap is total and utter bollocks, primarily because YOU'RE ONLY FOCUSING ON ONE FUCKING PART OF THEIR PLATFORM.  Talk about hypocricy.  "Oh, they're racits!!1!1, so we're going to ignore ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING that they've ever said or supported".

I apologise for seeming slightly angered by the vacuity of your post, but the quality is so totally absent that I cannot help but feel a righteous fury.

What I have understood: there may be truths in Nazism, but when the primary viewpoint is race everything is viewed through that perspective. It colors perception to the point that reality is abandoned, (despite vociferous claims of actually representing reality), leading to actions without benefit, or actions that are directly harmful. The rule should be; ignore nothing, but reject mindsets that obscure the truth or that can never truly be practical (perhaps a definition of irrationality in a way?). Whatever answers Nazism may have, as personal politics it is worthless. Is this not supported by history (post WW2)? By just looking at fucking Stormfront and seeing a morass of idiocy and negativity that is accepted because it is palatable to the mindset? Hatred at the expense of the intellect and pragmatism.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: WAAAAAAGH! on November 28, 2011, 07:16:12 PM
My understanding of the Nazi view towards race boiled down to "germany for germans." I may be completely ignorant as that isn't an are which I have studied in its entirety. Also, the "germany for germans" may have morphed during the course of the war. This I do not know. I do know that the german government for a time loaned jews, of any social class, money which they would pay back once they had "settled" in their new homes. I've read of agreements between a few countries, palestine is the only that currently comes to mind, which were made to take in the jews. The countries that did make these agreements did, after some point in time, go back on them.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on November 29, 2011, 01:55:41 AM
What I have understood: there may be truths in Nazism, but when the primary viewpoint is race

Stopped reading here, again.

You know, there's a substantial population of Environmentalists who are hippies.  Hippies are scum.  Do we say that Environmentalism is bad because it's part of Hippie ideology, and they fuse it with their entire retard worldview?  No, we extract whatever good may have come from the Hippie influence and move on.  This is the pragmatic ("Nihilistic"?) approach to everything.

Guess who else advocated Environmentalism and Conservationism, as well as mass exodus from cities into the countryside (a "return to nature")?

The Nazis.

Waaaagh pretty much sums it up: the point (whether only officially or not) was to have a (largely) homogenous homeland for the Germans.  Nationalsim (and subsequent "racism") wasn't the problem with the Nazi agenda; Imperialism was.  As soon as they started taking lands which did not belong, and had never really belonged, to Germans, they were being entirely hypocritical.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: fallot on November 29, 2011, 05:56:35 AM
Do we say that Environmentalism is bad because it's part of Hippie ideology, and they fuse it with their entire retard worldview?  No, we extract whatever good may have come from the Hippie influence and move on.

I'm saying similar things. We do call hippies bad. Nazism and Nazis are similarly bad. No? Pragmatism would not simply be taking the best, but also a rejection of the worst. We see that Nazism leads to nothing, so take what is of value from it and then bury it with other failures. Am I saying something different from the quoted?
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Cargést on November 29, 2011, 06:06:45 AM
I'm saying similar things.

Similar is not "the same", and I'm saying you're wrong where we differ.  This is called "debate".

Quote
We do call hippies bad. Nazism and Nazis are similarly bad. No?

A good man who commits one evil deed in his life is automatically evil?

Quote
Pragmatism would not simply be taking the best, but also a rejection of the worst.

I'd say that's implied.

Quote
We see that Nazism leads to nothing

Where do we see this?

Quote
so take what is of value from it and then bury it with other failures. Am I saying something different from the quoted?

The difference between you and DMBM is that he's saying "get rid of all of it" (which he doesn't mean, but my point is that he should bloody well be more careful).
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: lafindumonde on November 29, 2011, 07:09:48 AM
Cargest -

What you state is commonly understood here. I believe what you were replying to intended to simply paraphrase Neo-Nazis. The NSDAP was destroyed at the end of World War II and no longer exists.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: fallot on November 29, 2011, 07:26:57 AM
Similar is not "the same", and I'm saying you're wrong where we differ.  This is called "debate".

In that particular regard, I am saying the same thing. Can you please identify exactly where the disagreement is stemming from?

Quote
A good man who commits one evil deed in his life is automatically evil?

A man who does not then recognize his evil deed as evil is yes, automatically evil. He would not then be a good man.

Quote
Where do we see this?

In history and the world around us. Nothing of value emerges from those who take up the banner of Nazism because the prime motivation is flawed. Do you disagree that it is flawed? That it is negative and pernicious? Is that where the disagreement lies? Something of value could possibly emerge I guess, and if it did it would be accepted.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Umbrage on November 29, 2011, 09:22:36 AM
A good man who commits one evil deed in his life is automatically evil?

A man who does not then recognize his evil deed as evil is yes, automatically evil. He would not then be a good man.

There's an old saying about this. "A man can build bridges his whole life but if he sucks a cock once people will always remember him as a cocksucker."

That's just the way the world is...

I think the point here is that Nazism© has had a bad reputation since WWII due to allied propaganda. This bad image served to attract idiots who want to be that nightmare version of the nazis. So who cares if the nazis were environmentalists? They took that idea from the Wandervogel movement and later outlawed that group. Hitler was a cunning populist who merged contemporary popular ideas into one political philosophy and tied the loose ends together with new age religion. He obviously didn't get so many people backing him by saying "Hey let's start another world war and try to get as many people killed as possible! We'll do it for mother nature, Odin and Satan! And what the hell, let's also get our faces tattooed!" But that's the image that seems to remain of him today...
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Svmmoned on November 29, 2011, 04:28:13 PM
I know what you mean, I understand pragmatism of New Right. I also think that there is no future in Nazism, I know that it was flawed, not to mention that it is completely discredited today (even if not always its critique is legitimate). As always, I'm doing this for the sake of discussion and clarity and strictness of meanings, ideas and definitions:

Nazism is not that. In fact, everything it touches turns to waste. Once people step into the mindset of viewing life by race-only, all becomes skewed to that obsession.

Is it because of the very idea of National Socialism or because it places people in bitter, defensive and reactionary position (not much back then, it is rather a problem of today)? Because I think that failures you mentioned aren't inherent to idea itself. Yes, people seem to have hard time with its burden and probably they should be deprived of it. But then again, the same problem is with freedom - understanding it is also too much for most of people, which may led some of us into being pro-totalitarian. And to deprive all of us of all of freedom (including in its sane manifestations).

Nazis played that card most as a populists, but I don't find RABID racism (expulsion of Jews, not necessarily extermination, at that point of history is understandable - sorry) as a necessity to fill definition of National Socialism - concept of race should be there but it can be placed with some dignity. After all, books and studies, which inspired inception of that movement, weren't written by Nazis.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: death metal black metal on November 30, 2011, 05:48:57 AM
Nationalism is a well-defined concept that means one nation is comprised of a single racial-ethnic group, culture, language, customs, heritage, values, etc. All these forces are in unity, compared to the modern idea of disunity, which results in constant internal power struggles.

The Nazis were National Socialists, which meant existing Social Democratic ideals adjusted to a Nationalist context. The problem was that they then took this too far. Instead of creating a healthy cultural transition, they created a dogma that was self-perpetuating, like communism. It drove people past an appreciation of reality to an insane quest. The war was insane because it could not be won as it was created, and that should have been obvious to everyone. It was more of a temper tantrum than anything else.

Further, I think the Holocaust does discredit Nazism a great deal. Relocation to North Africa was possible; even more, using people who hate you to make your own munitions is a stupid idea, as is shown by the high failure rate of German munitions during the war. The only upside of the Holocaust was that it strengthened world Jewry by cutting out the low-hanging fruit in Eastern Europe while promoting the more prosperous, educated and intelligent German Jews.

Israel today is seeing the situation Hitler was in. What do you do with the Palestinians? Relocate. It's the only answer. The world will hate it, but if you do it quickly, it will be forgotten. If you shovel them into ovens, people freak out because of the sheer terror of that situation. I respect how some sheer terror is cosmically necessary, but unnecessary acts are still pointless. Do not fixate on the Other or it eats you up. Relocate.

Which brings me to modern-day "neo-Nazi" and "white nationalist" movements. These are not national socialism; they are Racial Marxist (http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/marxism/) movements that encourage a binary view of the world (white is right, everything else is STOMP AND KILL). They remove quality-control limits on white people, which is a terrible idea, as we've now got too many idiots, liars, cheats, rapists, scumbags, shitheads  and fools that we need to weed out. Also, these movements are defensive and passive. In their view, the Jew and African (who are morally bad) somehow control the world, and so all that we can hope for is jobs flipping burgers while we prepare for the ultimate race war (which we will not win). It's brain-breakingly stupid which is why ALMOST ALL of the people in these movements come from broken homes and broken lives, many if not all are alcohol and drug abusers, and they listen to angry pointless two-note music (outside of Absurd and Skrewdriver, there's not much of musical note going on within these circles). Neo-Nazism brings death to whatever it touches because it's a self-hating, self-destructive, hopeless movement. Avoid it like the plague.

Liberalism is the same way, just more insidious and less extreme. (Which cancer would you prefer: one that shows up while it's still stage 1, and so you can remove it, or one that is silent until it's stage 5 and there's nothing to do but dig your ass a grave?)

From my experience, there is one world and one truth that can be logically derived from it. This is the product of nihilism; we strip away all the anthro-centric bias and look at life as it is. There is no inherent truth, and indeed there is no truth that exists; there is only the world, and the order that emerges from it, and the truths we can use to summarize that order. From this, we gain an understanding of time, from that we get cause-effect logic, and from that we get a sense of immense realism.

As a realist, I can never support liberalism, leftism, anarchism, socialism, communism, progressivism or even social goodwill -- these are the same thing, which is a placing of the herd-as-individuals above the individual. I prefer a collective, cooperative goal as expressed in culture.

I will never endorse racism or race-hatred. It's pointless and distracting. It is not activism. It is indulging frustration. Again, nothing but hatred arises from it. Interestingly, this applies equally to ANTIFA and other "anti-racist" groups, who are basically bigots who want an object to beat on that is not protected by social rules. Then again, they're leftists -- see comments above.

Nationalism (self-rule by ethnic-cultural group) is a traditional value of all conservatives. It is also a superior system for human civilization. Each group has its own rules and should keep them. Mass immigration creates overpopulation.

Equality, which is a scheme by the less-equal to take from the more-equal, inevitably and always results in a reversal of natural selection and a less-competent society. You can see the results today. 1940s America was relatively crime-free, intelligent, orderly and genteel. Now we live in a crass dystopia. What intervened? A gradual process of liberalization.

Our solution to these problems is not political dogma but undertaking a cultural revolt and revolt in values. It's already happening. Nationalism is rising world wide, as is conservatism (although I prefer the term rightist, as in morally right and right to power). The liberal nightmare of 1789-2009 is showing its true colors, which are dystopia and internal conflict, and now the pendulum is swinging the other way.

I would prefer that way not to go to Nazism, but a traditional society which brings religion in line with science, science in line with philosophy, enslaves government to culture, removes liars and scumbags, gently repatriates the non-indigenous, and creates the kind of society we see mentioned in the Deep Ecology mission statement:

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We believe that true ecological sustainability may require a rethinking of our values as a society. Present assumptions about economics, development, and the place of human beings in the natural order must be reevaluated. If we are to achieve ecological sustainability, Nature can no longer be viewed only as a commodity; it must be seen as a partner and model in all human enterprise.

We begin with the premise that life on Earth has entered its most precarious phase in history. We speak of threats not only to human life, but to the lives of all species of plants and animals, as well as the health and continued viability of the biosphere. It is the awareness of the present condition that primarily motivates our activities.

We believe that current problems are largely rooted in the following circumstances:

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      The loss of traditional knowledge, values, and ethics of behavior that celebrate the intrinsic value and sacredness of the natural world and that give the preservation of Nature prime importance. Correspondingly, the assumption of human superiority to other life forms, as if we were granted royalty status over Nature; the idea that Nature is mainly here to serve human will and purpose.

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      The prevailing economic and development paradigms of the modern world, which place primary importance on the values of the market, not on Nature. The conversion of nature to commodity form, the emphasis upon economic growth as a panacea, the industrialization of all activity, from forestry to farming to fishing, even to education and culture; the drive to economic globalization, cultural homogenization, commodity accumulation, urbanization, and human alienation. All of these are fundamentally incompatible with ecological or biological sustainability on a finite Earth.

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      Technology worship and an unlimited faith in the virtues of science; the modern paradigm that technological development is inevitable, invariably good, and to be equated with progress and human destiny. From this, we are left dangerously uncritical, blind to profound problems that technology and science have wrought, and in a state of passivity that confounds democracy.

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      Overpopulation, in both the overdeveloped and the underdeveloped worlds, placing unsustainable burdens upon biodiversity and the human condition.

As our name suggests, we are influenced by the Deep Ecology Platform, which helps guide and inform our work. We believe that values other than market values must be recognized and given importance, and that Nature provides the ultimate measure by which to judge human endeavors.

http://www.deepecology.org/mission.htm

If you have further questions, please post them here and maybe we should execute an interview for another political blog. I apologize for taking up the time on this metal blog.

It's worth mentioning also that everything Burzum has released since "Hlidskjalf" has been a mistake.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: death metal black metal on November 30, 2011, 05:51:19 AM
Nazism is not that. In fact, everything it touches turns to waste. Once people step into the mindset of viewing life by race-only, all becomes skewed to that obsession.

I stopped reading here.  What the fuck is this?  This anti-Nazism crap is total and utter bollocks, primarily because YOU'RE ONLY FOCUSING ON ONE FUCKING PART OF THEIR PLATFORM.  Talk about hypocricy.  "Oh, they're racits!!1!1, so we're going to ignore ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING that they've ever said or supported".

Let me clarify:

Neo-Nazism views the world through race-only filter.

A successful conservative movement views the world through a filter of unity, which includes but is not limited to race. Heritage, culture, language, customs, values and beliefs must all be aligned. You cannot fix that through race alone. The old-school Nazis understood this but didn't emphasize it enough; it would have taken several generations to re-train the German population.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: Conservationist on December 03, 2011, 09:35:56 AM
Nazis played that card most as a populists, but I don't find RABID racism (expulsion of Jews, not necessarily extermination, at that point of history is understandable - sorry) as a necessity to fill definition of National Socialism - concept of race should be there but it can be placed with some dignity. After all, books and studies, which inspired inception of that movement, weren't written by Nazis.

Of course this is true. Race is important. Liberals acknowledge this, which is why it's all they talk about. They're racist against anyone with a race. They want all of you to interbreed so they can use you as new voters.
Title: Re: Burzum - Belus
Post by: death metal black metal on July 20, 2015, 05:03:59 AM
Burzum, 20 years on:

- Mainstream politics is now explicitly about race and religious conflict which are seen as inherent. It has not yet reached the level of concern about collapse of civilization.
- The early black metal albums are good, Filosofem is a mixed bag, Hlidskjalf is good, and then after a brief interlude, the recent ambient albums are good but mixed baggish.

I'd say Varg rocked the world. It just took it two decades to catch up with him.