This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
1
Chasm / Re: Beowulf
« on: February 03, 2012, 05:28:07 AM »I only read portions of Beowulf in college. Petrarca - what translation are you quoting from there?
That'd be Seamus Heaney's, an Irish poet who is apparently fairly renowned in his own right
2
Chasm / Re: Beowulf
« on: February 03, 2012, 05:19:05 AM »Quote
This poem glorifies a king leaving his land to go fight a battle in another land that is of no concern of his own people and battles with a monster that plagues another kingdom that is too weak to face it on its own.
It's worth noting, also, that Beowulf does not come to the aid of the other town while he is king, but rather many years before. It was an act of reciprocity to the Danish king, Hrothgar, for the assistance he had given to his father. My reading of it is that it is a glorification of honoring such a relationship, and also a means for Beowulf to begin his ascent to heroic status.
This poem was written during the Mirgration era where Kings justified warfare by backing underdogs. I think the poem is a representation of that as well as anything else. Its value is that the pagan structures and values were not yet decayed and it can be used a window of these structures.
This very well may be true, my knowledge of such historical factors is not sufficient to debate. Regardless, the poem muses on so many other topics that I think it'd be a waste to cut off inquiry here. In addition to the pagan values it displays, it is also interesting to see the amalgamation of these values with Christian thought and how they were each acknowledged in their own way. Coupled with the overall theme of "the death of heroism", I think that there is a great more worth excavating.
3
Chasm / Re: Beowulf
« on: February 02, 2012, 06:42:33 PM »
I'd highly recommend Tolkien's lecture "Beowulf: The Monster and The Critics" if your interested in a more literary reading of it, though historical perspective (as you have provided) as also key. (http://www.scribd.com/doc/21301124/J-R-R-Tolkien-Beowulf-The-Monsters-and-the-Critics)
The poem spends a lot of time criticizing frivolous warfare and hardly mentions Beowulf's military accomplishments outside of his fights with the monsters. With this in mind, I don't think that it makes sense to read these fights as "battles of expansion" in disguise. Each of the monsters have characteristics similar to those of the more reckless kings mentioned throughout, and Beowulf chooses to curb such traits by standing up to them in battle. Fighting the good fight, if you will.
It's probably based on a real person and was composed for that person's pleasue and a hit among his army. It's major use is understanding what morals were important among the warrier class in relation to a king, but it could be dangerous to look at it in that way exclusively, as this could very well have been propaganda by a monarch to justify warfare that was of no interest to his people, during an age where expansion was beneficial to rulers.
The poem spends a lot of time criticizing frivolous warfare and hardly mentions Beowulf's military accomplishments outside of his fights with the monsters. With this in mind, I don't think that it makes sense to read these fights as "battles of expansion" in disguise. Each of the monsters have characteristics similar to those of the more reckless kings mentioned throughout, and Beowulf chooses to curb such traits by standing up to them in battle. Fighting the good fight, if you will.
4
A summary: The background of Beowulf is endless tribal warfare driven by unbridled vengeance, blood lust, and avarice. As a cure to the epidemic violence, morality is fabricated with ligaments such as reciprocity, kinship, and peace-weaving, though all prove to be illusory. In the foreground of this amoral battleground stands Beowulf, the good king who fights fantastical embodiments of these aforementioned vices despite the fact that his fate is to be defeated in the end.
An absolute gem of ancient literature, I'm surprised that it isn't cited more often here. It's a handy reference for those interested in what it means to be a warrior, and how this is distinguished from being a brute.
Sometimes it seems like they is a very low moral bar by which men are measured, but this is often an insight into the greater motives as opposed to specific actions.
Like most any old / good text, it requires a bit of decrypting in order to understand what is being implied. I'm interested to hear how others here have deciphered its meaning, or any general thoughts.
For those who haven't read it, here's an online translation: http://www.heorot.dk/beowulf-rede-text.html. I'd recommend the Heaney translation, but I've only been able to find it as a scrbd doc: http://www.scribd.com/doc/20757289/Beowulf-a-New-Verse-Translation-Seamus-Heaney
Quote
It is a great wonder
how Almighty God in His magnificence
favours our race with rank and scope
and the gift of wisdom; His sway is wide.
Sometimes He allows the mind of a man
of distinguished birth to follow his bent,
grants him fulfilment and felicity on earth
and forts to command in his own country.
He permits him to lord it in many lands
until the man in his unthinkingness
forgets that it will ever end for him.
He indulges his desires; illness and old age
mean nothing to him; his mind is untroubled
by envy or malice or the thought of enemies
with their hate-honed swords. The whole world
conforms to his will, he is kept from the worst
until an element of overweening
enters him and takes hold
while the soul's guard, its sentry, drowses,
grown too distracted. A killer stalks him,
An archer who draws a deadly bow.
An absolute gem of ancient literature, I'm surprised that it isn't cited more often here. It's a handy reference for those interested in what it means to be a warrior, and how this is distinguished from being a brute.
Quote
For every one of us, living in this world means
waiting for our end. Let whoever can
win glory before death. When a warrior is gone,
that will be his best and only bulwark.
Sometimes it seems like they is a very low moral bar by which men are measured, but this is often an insight into the greater motives as opposed to specific actions.
Quote
So ought a kinsman act,
instead of plotting and planning in secret
to bring people to grief, or conspiring to arrange
the death of comrades.
Like most any old / good text, it requires a bit of decrypting in order to understand what is being implied. I'm interested to hear how others here have deciphered its meaning, or any general thoughts.
For those who haven't read it, here's an online translation: http://www.heorot.dk/beowulf-rede-text.html. I'd recommend the Heaney translation, but I've only been able to find it as a scrbd doc: http://www.scribd.com/doc/20757289/Beowulf-a-New-Verse-Translation-Seamus-Heaney
5
Chasm / Re: Nothingness after death - As uncertain as afterlife
« on: December 23, 2011, 04:21:54 AM »
At times, the meaning we create may need to be more compelling than "real", especially if this meaning is to be distributed to the more apathetic among us.
6
Commerce / Re: Burzum - From the Depths of Darkness
« on: December 07, 2011, 04:16:28 AM »Quote
With "From the Depths of Darkness", tell me about the journey you take the listener on?
To me it is a journey to my own past, of fighting with wooden sticks in the forest, longing for the time when I was playing roleplaying games with RPG-nerd friends. It is a journey to a time when I had long hair, when I was dreaming of a fantasy world, living life free of responsibilities and being more alone than ever, before or after. It is both sad and fascinating, it makes sense and is absurd at the same time. It was my fall into a reeking bog, but also my rise to... "greatness". In a sense I died back then, or at least I gave up living normally, but I am still alive and fighting. In a different reality.
To you, the listener, "From the Depths of Darkness" might be something entirely different, but I can hope it will take you on your own special journey; wherever you want to go. Wherever you are able to go. Your DNA is your limit... limiting your mind.
http://www.burzum.com/eng/library/2011_interview_terrorizer.shtml
He seems to defend it as a "nostalgic" trip, revealing an expected desire to re-engage with his younger (and artistically superior) self.
Of course, it may just as likely be a fundraiser for the construction of a "tall stone wall" around his property.
7
Chasm / Re: "The poor": kill them
« on: December 05, 2011, 06:14:24 AM »Does compassion for others stem from a devoted cognitive module which evolved to respond to perceptions of kin suffering, where the suffering of non-kin members just happens, accidently, to meet the input criteria of this module and thereby activate it, producing something like 'empathy'?
When you describe empathy for non-kin members being the result of similar "input criteria", this leaves room to question whether or not these accidental correlations have the same intended benefit of the "evolutionary by-product interpretation of compassion" you mentioned. The way we respond to these "accidents" likely stems from social forces, thus appropriating a philosophical examination of the subject.
That being said, I would keep in mind how kinship ties differ in localized vs globalized communities, and how compassion is really only beneficial when it's sphere of influence doesn't extend beyond that which it can actually sustain / protect / serve.
8
Chasm / Re: Living off the grid
« on: December 03, 2011, 11:32:45 PM »I don't get the desire to be a lonely drop-out. Sure, it's quite possible and easy to do, but I want to have a family and be part of a community.
Bring them with? I can't imagine this being very successful or worthwhile endeavor if the home is only for the sake of one person. I guess it would depend on the long term goals of such a project.
Biding time until society is of a fitting form to re-inhabit? Building a prototypical new society? An opportunity to die in "peace"?
9
Chasm / Re: The appeal of this place
« on: December 03, 2011, 11:20:24 PM »
For me:
In a general sense, it's inspiring to find a spirit that is antagonistic to modernity yet reverent towards life.
More specifically, a shrine to art forms that reflect this attitude.
In a general sense, it's inspiring to find a spirit that is antagonistic to modernity yet reverent towards life.
More specifically, a shrine to art forms that reflect this attitude.
10
Chasm / Re: Nihilist films.
« on: December 03, 2011, 12:52:44 AM »
A funny haha kind of nihilistic movie could portray the "good" guys as being too reliant on movie luck cliches and the fact that they are "good" to assist them in overcoming conflict, resulting in them repeatedly falling flat on their face. Meanwhile, the "bad" guys have embraced the fact that they are doomed to failure and death (because this is typical for most bad guys in most movies), and through this are able to face conflict more courageously.
The closest thing I've found to this is the grossly engrossing art film Begotten (thanks to the recommendation of JewishPhysics). It felt like a painting in the sense that it is almost completely driven by imagery, and leaves a lot to the imagination.
I imagine that a cool visualization of death metal would be elements of the album artwork mutating into different monster-like forms that abstractly correspond to the music; particularly effective with albums like Nespithe. It'd probably only succeed in being a strange LSD-like experience, but perhaps something more could come of it.
How about a film that works like a painting? A long scrolling tapestry, perhaps accompanied by music. Just because the medium has been used for no good doesn't mean that can't change.
The closest thing I've found to this is the grossly engrossing art film Begotten (thanks to the recommendation of JewishPhysics). It felt like a painting in the sense that it is almost completely driven by imagery, and leaves a lot to the imagination.
I imagine that a cool visualization of death metal would be elements of the album artwork mutating into different monster-like forms that abstractly correspond to the music; particularly effective with albums like Nespithe. It'd probably only succeed in being a strange LSD-like experience, but perhaps something more could come of it.
11
Chasm / Re: Some truly spacey stuff
« on: November 21, 2011, 02:52:29 AM »Could somebody provide some information on these lectures before I download this? I have bandwidth limitations presently. (i.e. name of lecture(s), organizations involved, etc.)
I'm fairly certain that this is the source: http://www.progressiveawarenesspromotions.com/it/11k/index.html
However, dreaming a lot and taking a shitload of drugs have given me the idea that individual branches of consciousness might be grouped by the "personalities" of their hosts. I'm sure that's totally legit, if entirely baseless.
I think that this idea can be further developed by considering how shared memories may be able to connect these "individual branches of consciousness".
With memories, I would argue that the similarity of people's personalities is more important than the similarities of the actual experiences they share. Shared experiences are probably necessary to reveal these similar personalities, but they're not the defining feature of the relation. Possibly more so with experiences of a more profound nature (eg. appreciating a work of art) and less so with others (eg. a joke on a sitcom).
12
Chasm / Re: ANUS: The Movie
« on: November 21, 2011, 02:13:32 AM »
Well it definitely touches on a quite a few touchy ANUS subjects. I would say that it succeeds in presenting them as rational enough to not be simply dismissed by "oh he's just crazy" analyses. It even ends with him making an alluring promise that I suppose many may desire: "Making more room, for you".
Pretty poorly done in many ways, but I've found that stale characters / environments sometimes make for an appropriately disturbing atmosphere.
Pretty poorly done in many ways, but I've found that stale characters / environments sometimes make for an appropriately disturbing atmosphere.
13
Chasm / Re: The Iliad is pure fucking metal!
« on: November 08, 2011, 01:32:15 AM »Without psychological battles there wouldn't be war at all in the story I've read.
This is true, but it leads me to question whether such battles demonstrate a strength or a weakness of the characters engaged in them. A lesson I got from reading the Illiad / Odyssey is that everyone must eventually face their weakness [Achille's Heel], and I think that the psychological conflicts often serve to reveal some of these weaknesses.
14
Chasm / Re: The Iliad is pure fucking metal!
« on: November 07, 2011, 03:17:54 AM »Awesome! I'm a big fan of the Sagas, myself. What you say is very interesting and observant. I can't say I recall the second-guessing, off the top of my head, but I'm sure you are right. It's been a few months since I last immersed myself in the sagas and I'm going to keep this in mind when I pick it back up.
I may be speculating a little too much on this, but I hope to make it into a working theory. At this point it's mostly a gut reaction I had after reading The Story of Hrafnkell and The Saga of Volsungs.
If only this was my homework...
15
Chasm / Re: The Iliad is pure fucking metal!
« on: November 06, 2011, 07:59:44 PM »How refreshing to read a book where the characters have no second thoughts.
I think that this may offer a key insight into the discussion of "masculine personality" that's been going on around here.
Ancient heroes have such a clear vision of their goals that they need not weigh themselves down with moral dilemmas in the face of battle. Second thoughts only lead to psychological battles of regret and guilt that cripple their ambition and give the enemy a strong advantage. True heroes don't waste time trying to clear their conscience, true heroes fight!
I've been reading through some of the Icelandic sagas and have noticed a trend. Not surprisingly, Pagan characters start to second guess themselves more as the Christian influence on their culture becomes more and more prevalent. It's a sad portrait of how the tribes lost their heroism as they became bogged down with Christian morality. It contradicted the worldview that shaped and strengthened their societies, and thus weakened their sustainability.
Edit: most of the above is probably bullshit