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Messages - Ergriefer

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Metal / Re: Refining your own musical taste
« on: January 05, 2011, 03:55:58 PM »
You have to refine your collection! On my computer especially, because I like to listen to my whole collection on shuffle, and if I don't delete shitty albums they'll pop up.  If I can't stand something, I have to just get rid of it.  Why hold onto something that isn't special?

Metal / Re: In metal: Nailing down compositional form and structure
« on: December 20, 2010, 11:59:09 AM »
Most metal musicians, like the rest of the pop world, bang on their instruments like chimpanzees, and feel lucky if it ends up sounding like music.  You mentioned the lingering "play this 4 times, then that 4 times" paradigm that still plagues metal, but that is largely due to inexperience on the part of young bands, or a rushed lack of concern and urgent need to "move units" on the part of older ones.  This, coupled with the outright mimicry of most younger bands towards only a handful of original, trend-setting artists, means that Metal has a long road to travel before it can reach the sophistication and vision of more "serious" music.

Of course one could utilize some classical and romantic techniques in their work, such as counterpoint (ie Anathema's "Crestfallen"), or through-compose their music with occasional repeated motifs (Negura Bunget's "N'Crugu Bradalui" or Nightbringer's "Rex Ex Ordine Throni"), or follow the path of modern composers and eschew notions of tonality and phrase altogether (Blut Aus Nord's "MORT.")  

But I think that, more often than not, all this complication can lead to music that is not only NOT METAL (ie Kayo Dot), but is also disassociated from the reality of Metal existence.  Metal and Classical may have much in common, but they are musics made in different times, played by different ensembles, for different reasons.  What works for a commissioned piano sonata doesn't work for a Metal band.  Some of the best metalists use only the simplest compositional tools and shun technique altogether (Ildjarn, Godflesh, the previously mentioned Darkthrone), but for the listener there is never a want for more complexity.  What might be the strongest link between modern Metal and Classical is an appreciation for perfectly composed, simple melodies.

Metal / Re: Use of female vocals in Metal (gimmicks aside)
« on: October 27, 2010, 05:22:51 PM »
lucifugum, tymah, and darkened nocturne slaughtercult (already mentioned) come to mind as examples of bands that successfully employ female vocals.  the gradual inclusion and acceptance of women metalists is hardly new, and is rapidly losing it's position as something unusual enough to remark upon. 

Metal / PUTRID SERVANT demo ritual discordant esoteric BM
« on: May 02, 2010, 07:21:12 PM »
noisy, discordant, but structured esoteric bm.  we only believe in evil gods.  http://www.mediafire.com/?cy2mzithioq

are you people arguing that, if this bore recovers fossils from depths and dates earlier than we originally thought life could have existed on this planet, that some people should be allowed to deny it?  of course, people are allowed to deny anything they want (they often do), but if your beliefs conflict with the discovery of fossils billions of years old, some unhealthy level of denial is at play.  anyway, it's far more satisfying for me to believe that the earth is billions of years old, life is even older, and that the event of life is an almost impossible coincidence in a universe too vast for me to understand.

Interzone / Re: Movies replace reality
« on: August 19, 2009, 01:26:35 PM »
a film i watched recently that might be relevant is Being There, the Peter Sellers movie.  Sellers plays the role of an illiterate gardener who lives to watch television.  but because of his clean-shaven appearance and upscale wardrobe, people see in him what they want to see, and he is basically offered the keys to the kingdom.  they mistake his likely mental retardation for even-tempered thoughtfulness.  they interpret his babbling of TV quotes and gardening tips as profound metaphor.  

the moral of the story is not only the idea that an idiot, through sheer luck, can be given the keys to power.  a more important narrative is the movie's description of TV not only as an opiate for the apathetic, but also as the primary indoctrination into the values of our culture.  through advertising and programming with subtle and not-so-subtle means, TV and movies represent the desired model society for the people who make them.  it's the foundation for modern consumerism, and it's place in metal should be debated.

Metal / Re: Life span of metal
« on: August 19, 2009, 01:10:06 PM »
that's about the right timeline for a conventional band.  about Burzum, the guy's circumstances may have sidestepped him from the usual artistic path for a while, but it's this fabled new album that will determine whether he loses his way in commercialism.

Interzone / Re: The Other Side of Commercialization
« on: August 17, 2009, 01:43:10 PM »
Samaellofi, you're right in that none of those bands that actually received commercial success were able to maintain quality after they "broke through."  most bands tucker out over time, for underground bands it's often out of continual brokeness and isolation, but bands that get commercial attention tend to suffer a more precipitous fall.  Metallica being the best example.  my guess is that commercial success erases that hunger and ambition that is required to make quality metal.  without it, you're not half as convincing, you're like a veteran pretending he's still at war. 

Interzone / Re: The Other Side of Commercialization
« on: August 14, 2009, 02:49:55 PM »
you know, it is a stirring question:  what would metal be without it's select handful of commercially successful bands/albums?  i guess most here can agree that metal has evolved beyond teenage lunchbox popularity contests, and into a "true" art form that assimilates esoteric ideas and doesn't require popular approval to survive, but what about origins?  is it somehow a detriment that Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Celtic Frost, Slayer, Metallica, Venom, Voivod, Kreator, Bathory, etc were more or less commercially successful bands, or at least unabashedly acknowledged their needs for some sort of commercial success?  Would the likes of Summoning, Ildjarn, or Astrofaes have arrived naturally under some other type of unnamed genre if these prior successes had not happened?

has underground metal rejected capitalism, or is it just uncool right now?  have underground musicians universally rejected the idea of professionalism, opting instead to live off their day jobs like ordinary schmucks while pursuing their music as a "hobby" or at least a labor of love?  if so, then why are they so quick to "sell out" to labels, marketing, promotions as soon as the music industry shows a slight inkling of interest?  do most underground artists secretly harbor the Guitar Center fantasy of being the "biggest" richest musicians in metal?

i think some are genuine, and wouldn't accept mainstream approval even if it was offered to them on a silver plate.  i think the "hipsters" as we call them, are the apologists for commerce in art who would try to imitate our music while perpetrating the same rock n' roll swindle.  that's why i think hatred of hipsters, and constant talk of that subject, is constructive.

Interzone / Re: The Other Side of Commercialization
« on: August 12, 2009, 06:22:30 PM »
if you're talking about quality, i think the popularization of black metal has not been beneficial for the genre as a whole.  it's not that i think black metal would only be cool if it stayed in exile for the sake of its own esotericism.   it's just that the popularity of bands like CoF, Dimmu, and even later Emperor and Enslaved, though they might inadverdently shine some shred of light on true underground artists, do more to misrepresent and obfuscate the true meaning of black metal than they refine or contribute. 

those who appreciate quality art will always be there, and are still to be found in the field, but the popularization and subsequent dilution of black metal has mainly propogated litters of clones, further misinterpreting and misrepresenting black metal.  most of us don't really see this at face value because we've found the music we enjoy, and don't really have to venture out into the wider world just to "see what's out there."  but one only needs to watch tv or read a magazine or even just check out some youtube videos to see that, well, there's a whole bunch of crap out there.

i don't mean to sound overly pessimistic, good music is all around, but strictly by the numbers things are not good in metal right now.

Interzone / Re: Hipster definition
« on: August 08, 2009, 02:58:12 PM »
well, you would have to be more specific about what is "real" metal (i agree with you about wittr, by the way), but shit yes there's hipsters in metal.  hipsters collect everything in a vain attempt to be know-it-alls, and you'd have to dig pretty deep to find something the hipsters haven't touched. 

here's a good test: when you meet somebody whom you suspect to be a hipster, and he/she wants to talk about music, mention two relatively obscure bands.  if they admit familiarity with those bands (hipsters will NEVER tell you they haven't heard a band if they're trying to impress you), ask if they've heard a third band, but this time just make the name up.  if they claim to have heard the fake band, you're talking to a BONA FIDE hipster.

Interzone / Re: Religion in Modern America
« on: August 08, 2009, 07:13:47 AM »
this thread has become so long and tortured, i don't think there's much more to say on this point.  nous and the other religionists will continue to masturbate their brains to acquire "knowledge" on a "higher level."  redreign will continue to shoot them down like a good dude.  it could go on forever.

my final thoughts on the subject are this: i've been atheist all my life.  not since adolescence in some attempt to scare my parents, but ALL my life.  as soon as i figured out the concept of death, i knew it was real and total.  i could not accept unfounded, wishful myths to ameliorate the fear of death.  eventually, the fear slipped away, and i saw the finite character of life as an attribute that gives meaning to all of existence.  likewise, i don't bemoan the absence of a supreme God, commanding from above; it gives me strength to know that my life and choices are mine alone, and it makes sense to perceive the outside world as total chaos than to impose the hand of a single (or multiple) creators on it.  overall, atheism gives the understanding of the world that possibly others would look for in theism. 

i tire pretty quickly of people who think i must be pessimistic or cynical because of my lack of belief in some divine principle.  i don't claim to know everything, but i'm too comfortable in what i don't know to fill in the blanks with verbose garbage.   if i let that virus infect my worldview, i would soon be doing irrational things, and everything would stop making sense to me.  a better way to state it is that everything would start making sense, but would be wrong.

Interzone / Re: Religion in Modern America
« on: August 07, 2009, 03:55:09 PM »
wow, this post just goes on and on.  i suspect nous is a jesuit, trying to "save souls" on this "nihilist" forum.  especially with the "salvation" comment.  most of his posts are stuffed with the well-read claptrap of religious apologists, capable of the mental gymnastics to make themselves believe anything.  it actually takes a spine and sense of integrity to reject "knowledge" that doesn't coincide with the world you perceive, even if it might mean that you "know" a little less.

Interzone / Re: Official ANUS.com communique to all hipsters
« on: August 05, 2009, 03:03:53 PM »
there seems to be an anti-hipster movement bubbling up.  i'm all for it.  i'm trying to host shows in my town, and it's an uphill battle wrestling metal from the hands of all the hip urban vegan coffee-swilling anarchist tattoo farmers.  it's this attitude and honest critique of the metal community that will lead to a new distillation of metal views, and quite possibly newer and truer forms of music. 

Interzone / Re: Religion in Modern America
« on: August 05, 2009, 02:54:32 PM »
i appreciate that the focus is being moved back to the the original post.  since we're talking about religion in modern America, i think it's illuminating to study the modern American example of religion, especially for the theists who believe that we shouldn't leave god behind, but rearrange some symbols.

for those who argue the value of theistic belief, i'm sure that whatever works for you is just fine, but from what i can gather your beliefs and value system still do not coincide with the majority of the god-fearing species.  in fact, your beliefs as stated are so personal and esoteric that they can't be associated with modern american religion as a whole.  to stay true to the original post, the basis of this discussion would have to be about the everyman's religion, in the mainstream world; the "opiate of the masses."

for those who believe in science: take heed of what Conservationist said, that progress is simply "doing what we want."  it's possible that science has created as many problems for modern americans as religion.  some examples: 1) cheap industrialized food leads to obesity and diabetes, 2) cheap oil leads to inefficient vehicles, 3) prevalence of computers leads to isolation and dependence, 4) longer life spans leads to increased health care costs, which for many equates to loss of coverage.  so of course, science is a tool, it doesn't have all the answers, and sometimes it creates problems when used to solve others.

i still lean to science, if only because it evolves and is tested in theory and application against the demands of reality, as opposed to religion, which is by nature resistant to adaptation and change. 

again, if belief in supernatural stuff works for you, that's great, but let's not forget that in america, kids in public school are taught that creationism is a scientific theory of equal value to evolution, or that people will believe that a political candidate is the Antichrist, or that some support our military backing of Israel in anticipation of the Apocalypse, or that some parents will deny their children necessary medical procedures to stay in line with their religious beliefs.  you can have your symbols and your metaphysics, but this is the american religion i'm familiar with.

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