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Messages - Dedrater

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1
Metal / Re: Metal listening sessions
« on: May 16, 2011, 02:51:01 AM »
For instance, a few times a week i like to go for a walk through one of the local trails(which takes about an hour) and select an album i have never listened to before.  The fresh air,movement and beautiful forestry complements just about any death/black metal album in my opinion.  I also find being outdoors improves the listening experience by keeping the mind totally focused on the music.

I have had many good experiences like this but now I prefer to walk without music so I can be fully aware of the surroundings. I can think more clearly and it's also the time when my own best ideas will come to me.

How about going through two or three albums, but with intermissions in between each that last for a half hour or longer in order to adjust and appreciate the surroundings? Such an approach seems the best of both worlds to me. If you play the albums in a particular sequence, you might also be able to have the silence make contextual sense as part of a larger story.

2
Interzone / Re: Problems with evolution?
« on: May 15, 2011, 02:49:50 PM »
just having a tail that can't be propelled would be useless.

Then why do almost all animals have tails that can't be propelled?

Evolution doesn't care about what's useful; it only cares about what isn't detrimental. My appendix isn't useful, but it's not killing me, so it's going to keep getting selected until this changes.

Animals have tails for balance, communication and other reasons. Humans don't have tails because we simply didn't need them anymore but the tailbone is still there and it helps sit slightly more comfortable. The reason why humans have an appendix still hasn't been fully determined yet but it might be there to serve as a safe haven for beneficial bacteria when someone has a diarrhea infection. After the infection the intestinal bacteria returns to the colon to produce healthy turds again :-)

Even if this is true, there are still other examples of vestigial body parts. My arm hair serves no purpose whatsoever, and neither do the finger bones inside the fins of whales and dolphins.

Biological evolution and Traditionalism - philosophic take on the matter.

well, a mutation gets passed on IF it has an evolutionary advantage. A motor wouldn't have much advantage until it is compeletely put together.

I think you're on to something here. The "burst" nature of evolution is something scientists probably haven't properly quantified, and don't really have a conceptual idea of the cause of. This is especially relevant for considering the tremendous speed at which human evolution occurred, and the possible direction of evolution in the future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

3
Interzone / Re: Problems with evolution?
« on: May 15, 2011, 12:14:39 AM »
just having a tail that can't be propelled would be useless.

Then why do almost all animals have tails that can't be propelled?

Evolution doesn't care about what's useful; it only cares about what isn't detrimental. My appendix isn't useful, but it's not killing me, so it's going to keep getting selected until this changes.

4
Interzone / Re: Problems with evolution?
« on: May 14, 2011, 07:43:29 PM »
Flagellum motor is one if i remember right. Such a thing would be too difficult to come into existence by natural selection, considering its compexity.

Have you ever tried to bang molecules into one another for four billion years to see what happens? It may be difficult for our human brains to grasp, but four billion years is actually way, way, way, way, way longer than most people give it credit for.

5
Metal / Re: Favourite metal poetry
« on: May 14, 2011, 01:34:19 PM »
Well to clarify, I mean the function of vocals generally can't be removed. It is interdependant with every other aspect of the composition.

This ultimately depends on the composition in question. There are plenty of death metal songs that would still work without vocals (the ones where vocal phrasing doesn't determine riff structure absolutely), and much of the best black metal is in the form of either succinct, instrumental "poems," or 7+ minute pieces where 60-70% of the composition is already instrumental. Plenty of composers over the centuries have rearranged and transcribed pieces for entirely different instrument sets, moods, etc. without damaging the intent of the music; in fact, if we were to decompose a piece of music into a small handful of effects, we would see that, in some cases, a transcription increases the potency of one effect while decreasing another, occasionally for the better. It depends on the purpose of the change in arrangement, so some are detrimental, while others have their place.

Quote
I try to view composition in a holistic sense where lyrics, poems, artwork etc are all included.

Sure, but stating that lyrics are separable from musical content is no different from stating that aesthetically pleasing wall adornments, no matter how thematically complementary they are to the function of a building, are separable from that building's support structures; you can remove good lyrics and replace them with really stupid ones without affecting the support structures of the music. Furthermore, you don't even need wall adornments or lyrics in the first place; emotion can be conveyed vocally without the aid of symbolic language.

If something is a failure in one respect, that doesn't prevent us from taking a granular approach to the thing as a whole. Granularity may seem antithetical to holism on some level, but it isn't if you use it as a tool for building a new whole out of the parts of other wholes.

6
Interzone / Re: Encyclopedia Dramatica Goes Limp
« on: May 14, 2011, 01:21:03 PM »
4chan and Encyclopedia Dramatica are the most stark embodiments of crowdism in the modern age. They may have a sense of community, but a sense of community is a means to an end; mobs of pedophiles and nerds will never understand this -- nor any mobs, for mobs are ultimately disorganized, and chiefly interested in using the herd structure for their own selfish, masturbatory purposes.

Here's a rule of thumb that generally holds true: If you say something in one realm of reality that provides a false sense of power, can be recited by anyone on Earth, and will never be said by you outside of that realm, you're probably a coward. 4chan is the Marquis de Sade to ANUS' Immanuel Kant.

And no, I'm not mad, bro.

7
Metal / Re: Favourite metal poetry
« on: May 12, 2011, 02:12:18 AM »
Can't forget this part from Mayhem's Life Eternal:

What'll be left of me when I'm dead?
There was nothing when I lived
What you found was eternal death
No one will ever miss you

...and from Det Som Engang Var:

We are not dead
We have never lived

8
The point isn't whether this guy should be made into compost or not. The point is that the only to deal with the tedium and isolation of modern life is to escape into fantasy worlds. Diaper wearing is a hilarious example of that (and it's probably healthier than watching TV), and reflects well on how ridiculous society as a whole is. I say make this man president.

Modern society is a fantasy world. Occasionally, things like good art allow us to escape from the escape -- which takes us back to reality.

The most absurd part about this limp-wristed phenomenon is that just about everyone already wears diapers -- refunds, "the customer is always right," platitudes, political correctness, censorship, neuroses -- and yet none of the culprits recognize their own affinity with this guy. It's liberal Christianity laughing at Scientology.

9
Metal / Re: Tree, Forest Worship
« on: May 09, 2011, 10:56:26 PM »
What Tacitus has to say of Germanic religion in Germania:

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The Germans, however, do not consider it consistent with the grandeur of celestial beings to confine the gods within walls, or to liken them to the form of any human countenance. They consecrate woods and groves, and they apply the names of deities to the abstraction which they see only in spiritual worship.

Wikipedia also says the following:

Quote
...there is evidence from later continental Europe, Anglo-Saxon England and Scandinavia that the pagans worshipped out of doors at "trees, groves, wells, stones, fences and cairns".[17] In some later cases, temples would be built on such sites, the most notable being the Swedish Temple at Uppsala which, according to Adam of Bremen, writing in the 11th century, was built around a grove which was "so holy that each tree is itself regarded as sacred".

Better tell all the crappy Viking metal bands to stop putting cartoon characters with horned helmets on all of their album covers...

10
Interzone / Re: Technology will save us, so fuck it.....
« on: March 27, 2011, 06:28:26 PM »
The forum ate my post, so forgive me if it comes back at some point and this appears to be a double post:

The logical question is, of course: What set of ideas has ever convinced the majority of the human species?

Get sex, TV and money did the trick.

I figured that someone would bring this up, but I think this group is more interested in there being a general consensus in their favor in more or less all nations on Earth. The Middle East is starting to go down the path mentioned above (e.g. United Arab Emirates), but there are certainly still Afghanistans and Somalias on this planet. They are becoming fewer and fewer, though.

11
Interzone / Re: Technology will save us, so fuck it.....
« on: March 27, 2011, 06:20:03 PM »
The logical question is, of course: What set of ideas has ever convinced the majority of the human species?

Get sex, TV and money did the trick.

I figured that someone would bring this up, but I think this group is more interested in there being a general consensus in their favor in more or less all nations on Earth. The Middle East is starting to go down the path mentioned above (e.g. United Arab Emirates), but there are certainly still Afghanistans and Somalias on this planet. They are becoming fewer and fewer, though.

12
Interzone / Re: Technology will save us, so fuck it.....
« on: March 27, 2011, 04:27:42 AM »
Something to note: They believe that, in order to achieve their goals, a "critical mass" needs to be convinced of the validity of their proposed direction. By this, they seem to mean something like the majority of the human species. In other words, until most people -- and governments -- recognize their goals and decide to live together in harmony, they're not going to attempt to build cities or implement new technologies.

The logical question is, of course: What set of ideas has ever convinced the majority of the human species?

I think the answer is obvious.

13
Metal / Re: Favourite metal poetry
« on: March 25, 2011, 03:04:18 AM »
Summoning - Farewell

Who can find you clear springs of waters, but I can
Who can tell you the age of the moon, but I can
Who can call the fish from the depths of the sea, yes I can
Who can change the shapes of the hills and the headlands, I can

I have been a sword in the hand, and
I have been a shield in a fight, and
I have been the string of a harp, and
I can shift my shape like a god

Farewell, leave the shore to an ocean wide and untamed
Hold your shield high, let the wind bring your enemy your nightmare
By the bane of my blade, a mighty spell is made and
Far beyond the battle blood shall fall like a hard rain


Skepticism - The Rising of the Flames

The flames - waves are our path
The wind - blows away the fear
Calm - and strong are our minds

Joy on the fields is eternal
Pain beyond view
The flames raise us

In the cold the flames glow
Blue
Under the flood
Blood

The waves - flames are our path
The last one
We die - we never fall
The flames in our veins

Storm behind, storm ahead
Oar strokes are our way
Away and back again
The flames are rising


Emperor - The Majesty of the Night Sky

Like the tide, shadows flow towards the shore of light
The night comes whirling like a maelstrom
Warring waves of crackling clouds embrace this nightside landscape
The heavens bleed, through open wounds, the dim light of the Moon
The winds are crying mournfully and tears fly with the gusts
They whip my clenched face's freezing skin with ice-cold burning cuts

Too long I have suffered the desert sands of time
But as I drown in darkness it will release the sign
My soul will leave this mortal coil of flesh and earthly life,
To fly into the mist of night, into the nightside eclipse,
And experience existence on the other side

As a stone of scorching enthusiasm
I refract the reflecting surface of this unfathomable sea
Growing circles of grief and pain slide across the land
As an omen of the horror yet to come

The strength of a thousand fire-breathing demons
Breeds in my infernal, sinking soul
And as I reach the surface once again
These powers are under my control
Now I am one with the night sky majesty


Burzum - Han Som Reiste

(instrumental)

14
Metal / Re: Subjectivity vs Objectivity
« on: January 17, 2011, 09:24:44 PM »
What do you mean by realistic?

This:

Quote
Unless by this kind of "aesthetic realism" you mean "ecologically healthy in the long term".

Instead of "beauty," how about "health" by itself? A work of art can improve or otherwise attend to the health of a person's mind and spirit, just as exercise can to the body. Running for a set amount of time every day will obviously yield different results for each individual, but that doesn't make the assertion that running is healthy "subjective." Can we quantify, with exactitude, the amount of calories burned, sinews strengthened, etc., during the process? No, but that doesn't make exercise magic -- it's still a by-product of the physical world.

Another analogy:

Running is Beethoven; lifting a pen at work over and over again, then declaring it "exercise," is Slipknot.

Eating a healthy meal is Burzum; eating junk food is Watain.

This should be fairly obvious in most cases.

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A work inspired in the divine mystery of the virginity of Mary, where would you put it? Reality or false truth?

False - The claim that the virgin birth literally occurred

True - The earnestness of the artist in creating an object of worth beyond the self, starkly relating to external reality (in as much as anything can truly be external), for the good of society and what is perceived as necessary; not churning out statues for profit, personal gain, or because they "look cool"; not making vapid top ten lists of favorite statues

Note, however, that music is far more intuitively communicative and emotive than most visual art, making it the preferable option for reinforcing already understood axioms of value -- which don't really need art's help, ultimately, but it doesn't hurt, either (and music is awesome).

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There's a metaphoric need for reality in ourselves, but what conforms a good (musical) metaphor? The accurate description of the object?

Any aspect of music communicating power, struggle, weather patterns, violence, triumph, glory, ecstasy, logic, form, order, etc. Music can't symbolically convey that 2+2=4; that's not what it's designed to do. Instead, patterns of abstraction interrelate at a visceral layer -- limiting, maybe, but it also accomplishes what symbolic language is unable to. This is true of all art to a degree, but the added symbolism of the visual arts is somewhat irrelevant to this capability.

You can use the same piece of music to provoke identical responses in two separate instances, using opposing agendas for both cases -- one dumb and the other logical. That doesn't invalidate the more logical agenda, or its use of the music.

15
Metal / Re: Subjectivity vs Objectivity
« on: January 17, 2011, 07:27:37 PM »
Again, quality by what criteria?

1. Upholds a realistic vision of the world, denies false truths and fantasies (while not denying the prospect of an outwardly fantasy-like, superior future)

2. Does a good job to this end

It's pretty easy to tell when a melody on an album like Bergtatt or Autumn Aurora would fit into the complacent realm of rock radio, right alongside Deftones and Nirvana (or shoegaze, or post-rock). Droney ambient music with no direction, only interested in imitating previous ambient releases but failing to do so with any degree of precision or clarity, is similarly easy to critique (when proponents of an entire genre refer to "darkness" or "murkiness" as "atmospheric," you know that they're just making stuff up).

Debating why Mendelssohn isn't as great as Schubert may also have merit, but it's not as important, and doesn't involve obvious, qualitative differences. If Mendelssohn were to instead inject a bit of the Beatles' "Strawberry Fields" into a work, then it'd be easier to reject -- but "not as good" is still worth determining in the absence of the possibility of "promotes stupid values and is obviously horrible." It's just a little more complicated.

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