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Messages - Godkiller

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Metal / Re: Austin THUNDER OF THE GODS metalfest flakes out
« on: May 11, 2009, 01:35:38 AM »
And nothing of value was lost.

Metal / Re: Metal and lyricism
« on: May 11, 2009, 12:13:10 AM »
Metal lyrics are at worst garbage, at best cheese, overall just directionless and juvenile. Nowhere in metal is this as pronounced as in Black and Death Metal, where lyrics are either ham-fisted attempts at profundity or just utterly stupid from the outset (hey, at least they're being honest). It follows that music will be as pointless, directionless and shitty as its lyrics, if they have nothing of value to communicate thematically. I can't think of a single black or death metal song with lyrics that I can honestly call "good"; you're welcome to dish out your favourite gems to me for a couple of laughs, I'm sure "suddenly... life has new meaning" will figure in somewhere because it's like, so deep.

Saying "but it's not about the lyrics, bro" is pretty much relegating metal to the realm of absolute music, which in and of itself is nice I guess if you're bored and have nothing better to do than occupy yourself with abstract noise.

Metal / Re: Bands worth hearing thread
« on: April 20, 2009, 11:27:47 PM »
Quote from: Devamitra link=topic=3152.msg33360#msg3336


orly? Why don't you name some bands that sound just like them then, ace? At parts Windir was like metalized Baroque music, barely anything like this "pagan metal" Graveland clone garbage of nowadays.

Metal / Re: Mainstream recognizes what sets metal apart
« on: April 20, 2009, 03:05:47 PM »
Death Metal might have succeeded in creating and improving a form but they certainly haven't in applying that form coherently to express something meaningful.

I think you entirely misunderstand this genre.

Its poetry is the song structure composed of its riffs interacting to project a narrative form with a clear mechanism, like poetry.

For examples:

  • "Land of Ice" by Unleashed. Notice how the song builds to an internal climax and then smooths out into an entirely different timbre and riff style. Why?
  • "Fall from Grace" by Morbid Angle. Verse/chorus, and then explanatory passages.
  • "Hardening of the Arteries" by Slayer. Notice how each riff change has an introduction and these thrust the song forward to its conclusion.
  • "Obscura" by Gorguts. Rotational form of riffs, produces sestina-like poetry.

Now compare this to classical music, specifically the storm Romantics (Brahms, Beethoven) and leitmotif-driven moderns (Wagner, Bruckner, Respighi).

I don't think structure is the same as content. Sure, you can use structure as a device to say something, but it's not everything. That's like focusing on the fact that a poem is structured AABBA instead of what the words in it actually mean. In an essay, it's not the structure of the essay that gets the message across, it's the statements made in it. The analogue of a statement in a metal song is the riff, melody, musical phrase, whatever.

You can rearrange a turd however you want, the result is still a turd. You can even rearrange it in very creative and elaborate ways, maybe even create a fecal reproduction of Bartonlini's Nymph With Scorpion, the result is still a pile of shit. This is how I see Death Metal. "Oh cool, they didn't make this song verse/chorus or this riff kinda develops off that one." So what? What you're describing sounds like another exercise in form to me.

I think the term "narrative composition" as applied to death metal on this site's articles is a huge misnomer. A "narrative" would imply that the songs actually have something to say and illustrate with the music, not just that songs are a bunch of chained up abstract noise that may (or may not) make sense musically and sound pretty cool but have no purpose beyond that.

Metal / Re: Bands worth hearing thread
« on: April 20, 2009, 02:43:33 PM »
Likferd is Windir's worst album.

That's not exactly saying much, since they're all fantastic.

Listen to Arntor.  Not a tremendous album, but certainly Windir's best

I'd pin that title on 1184, overall it delivers the best package although Arntor and Likferd have some fantastic melodies too.

"wood" or whoever wrote that first review can eat a dick. Other than the black metal vocals I don't see how you could find flaw with a song like "Martyrium", unless you had some vendetta against good music. The vocals on Windir should have all been clean IMO, but that creates a kind of Catch 22 since then the clean vocal parts wouldn't stand out more and give the mood they do.

Interzone / Re: I go to church
« on: April 20, 2009, 02:27:15 PM »
Who cares? And what do you get out of it? Also, you sound like a teenager, get over yourself.

A pentecostal coworker invited me to one of his church services, all I can say is despite all the rambunctiousness and singing and whatever, it was pretty boring. I felt no connection with anyone there in the ethnically mixed melange, much less the priest who was shouting like Hitler. I couldn't see a reason to be there except to check it out. It was like the Immolation song, "I feel nothing". If I'm going to get a three hour lecture every week it might as well be on something useful or interesting, not some bullshit...

I don't know where you live but I think church in America tends to suck while church in Europe, having some cultural, historical and ethnic ties to a region, is more interesting. Especially Catholic and Orthodox churches, and regional variations in things like monastic orders to architectural styles and styles of chant. I spent Christmas eve in the Notre Dame de Paris and singing in Latin was pretty cool but not enough to draw me in every Sunday.  I was raised and later self-made an atheist so I regard these things with an air of detachment but I can appreciate some of what they have to offer and their historical and cultural significance.

Metal / Re: Mainstream recognizes what sets metal apart
« on: April 18, 2009, 08:17:56 AM »
rock music is about simply creating a song to a template, whereas (good) metal has an idea and sets the form around it

Sorry, but I think that's bullshit. Music has been in some way built "around an idea" since its beginnings, from ritual, folk and liturgical music, and rock music isn't a gap in that tradition. Think of the Beatles' "Yesterday", can you honestly tell me that that song doesn't try to illustrate a concept musically? In fact, I think more often than not metal fails that standard, becoming absolute music. How does the music in Incantation's song Golgotha serve to illustrate anything? Virtually every song on that album sounds the same and is interchangeable; sure, there's some variation in form IE Christening the Afterbirth and Rotting Spiritual Embodiment are slower or Unholy Massacre actually has a good riff, but the songs might as well have been about eating kitty litter. Death Metal might have succeeded in creating and improving a form but they certainly haven't in applying that form coherently to express something meaningful. The music and the messages (if any) are completely detached from one another. Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but at least provide some examples.

Metal / Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
« on: April 17, 2009, 05:04:39 PM »
For the 70s I wanted to bring up Japanese Band Flower Travellin' Band's 1971 album Satori. Even if it shouldn't be on the list I still feel it's something metal afficionados should be aware of. Great atmosphere, listen for yourselves:

Satori pt. 1

Satori pt. 3

They also did a cover of "Black Sabbath" at one point so that's some indication of their influences.

Metal / Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
« on: April 17, 2009, 05:34:15 AM »
Quote from: Devamitra link=topic=5793.msg33194#msg33194
I don't know if you are familiar with Scandinavia, but the "death rock" with Iron Maiden leads and screamed/shouted vocals was born in the latter half of the 90's mostly through Sentenced and Dark Tranquillity. In Flames was just the lesser known little brother of DT before they became a pop metal band. Old newsgroup postings from back then note that Children of Bodom sounds like Sentenced crossed with power metal.

Actually, “death rock” means something completely different and unrelated to what you’re implying it to be, as does death 'n roll, for that matter.

If I get your drift though, I agree with you: Sentenced were a good if not the best band in the early melodic death metal style - the kind also typified also by early At the Gates, early In Flames, early Dark Tranquillity, Eucharist, Ablaze My Sorrow, A Canorous Quintet, Decameron, Ceremonial Oath, Dark Tranquillity etc. The type of metal their "North From Here" album represents though is much more than just "Iron Maiden leads and screamed/shouted vocals", IE "pop metal". I dunno about Sentenced spawning millions of imitators though since many bands were doing the exact same thing at the same time, including At the Gates. Maybe you could elucidate me on this?

The “pop metal” you’re talking about is in my view something different from what I described, where Sentenced could be said to be an innovator. The major innovators in this Gothenburg style that took over I see as being Carcass (with Heartwork), At the Gates (SotS), Dissection, Hypocrisy (The 4th Dimension) and In Flames (first 4 records). I don’t see Sentenced being an innovator here. They (unnotably) changed sound on Crimson and so did Amorphis, to this new style (producing IMO their best album ever). As for Dark Tranquillity, I see them doing pretty much the same stuff Sentenced did on North From Here only two years later, whereas In Flames folky guitar stylings introduced something completely new.

The "Iron Maiden with a cold" schtick grates on my nerves since Iron Maiden neither invented melodic guitar lines in metal, nor are they the best example of it. If you're going to pigeonhole an entire style like that you might as well call Altars of Madness a more technical Possessed or Ildjarn a shittier Burzum.

The CoB newsgroup stuff you're talking about probably refers to Sentenced because they're both Finnish bands so it's an easy comparison to make.

Metal / Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
« on: April 14, 2009, 03:20:20 PM »
I understood the list as being about innovations of style and technique, not about who spawned a thousand imitators.

That was also my understanding.

Some did both. Sentenced


Metal / Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
« on: April 14, 2009, 02:58:50 PM »
The original list has some good names on it.

To that I'd add:


Blind Guardian
In Flames (along with At the Gates, hugely influential in pioneering the Gothenburg style, the aftershock of which is still felt with the metalcore bands of today)

Also, Venom was hugely influential not just in image but also conceptually and even musically. They were ahead of their time musically, bordering on thrash and much rawer and more ballsy than any of their heavy metal contemporaries. They're a great band, they should definitely be on the list.

Interzone / Re: Hackers get into the metal aesthetic
« on: April 08, 2009, 06:17:42 AM »
It reminds me of Doom 3. Videogames have been borrowing the metal aesthetic for decades.

Metal / Re: Borrowed melodies
« on: April 05, 2009, 01:00:20 PM »
Here's an obvious one:

Amorphis - In the Beginning (I think)  (from Tales From the Thousand Lakes)

Dead Can Dance - The Host of Seraphim (from The Serpent's Egg)


Interzone / Re: Is ANUS falling apart?
« on: March 29, 2009, 08:34:20 PM »
I do not support retribution against former users. This policy went into place when one of our admins on metal hall badly betrayed us.

Just wondering, what's the story behind this? Or at least, who was it?

Metal / Re: Metal is Entertainment
« on: March 28, 2009, 11:55:34 AM »
What will a businessman, politician, educator, researcher, or inventor armed with blind faith in the manifest destiny of mankind's role in material / economic development achieve?

The continued survival of his tribe. Throughout history, the tribe that had the best technology, was most organized, and could mobilize the most resources always won (yes, there are exceptions, but they're not the norm). It's a constant arms race at the technological and economic level. Have fun living in your idyllic neolithic paradise until a centralized state with guns and steel takes it all away from you and enslaves/eradicates you.

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