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Metal / Re: Essential J.S. Bach
« on: August 24, 2012, 10:17:57 AM »
Thereís a saying, Bach Did it first!... =)

The Violin Partitaís are particularly resplendent, as are the Cello Suites. If you have enough time, play them; Bachís one of the best things to do in life, IMHO.


Metal / Re: Introductions: User Relationships to Classical Music
« on: June 22, 2011, 12:18:52 PM »
I'll have to look into "Aldwell-Schacter," I'm a fan of both their other work, hadn't heard about this one. I've had a good experience with Salzer-Schachter's "Counterpoint in Composition," and I've been looking for a good harmony book beyond Piston's.

Building a harpsichord sounds wicked! Let me know how it goes, and how she plays. I almost bought this virginal the other day on ebay, but I couldnít justify spending $4,000 on one when Iím hunting for a Marimba.  

It helps to be in touch with instrument builders and other early music folks, generally a friendly and well-connected bunch. I've gotten more than one kit / instrument offered to me (that is, free of charge) just because the right people knew my interests and background. If you're looking for a cheaper alternative, you could try a clavichord, my current favorite of the keyboard family. Below are good starting points, but it is highly recommended you're able to play an instrument before purchasing.


The workbooks are indispensable, also.

Iíve never used that oneóIíll look into it.

Both the kostka-payne (tonal Harmony) and Aldwell-Schacter (Harmony and Voice leading) are goodóone thing to note about the Kostka-payne is that the chapter on augmented sixths (26, I think) is highly inefficient. It has you memorize one way of conceiving them, then another for building them. Itís just a waste of time and could be made simpler by using octave fifths in the formula for learning them. Other than that, itís great.   

Thanks a lot, Iíll look into these! One reason I want one is my interest in tuning paradigms. Sure, some intervals sound weird but then you can get some really sweet sonorities(3rds and 5ths especially) with various temperaments.

Metal / Re: Introductions: User Relationships to Classical Music
« on: June 22, 2011, 09:56:08 AM »
Funnily enough, this thread is possibly the most useful resource I've found.  I also still have some old books on melodic theory, and commentaries/scores for Schumann's Piano Concerto in A Minor (unfortunately in German, so it's a little hard to decipher at times) and Britten's "Saint Nicolas".

What do you mean, specifically, by "Aural Skills"?

Nice! Which books? I've used the aldwell-schachter, kostka-payne, and have studied some from gradus ad parnassum along with other assorted counter-point books but have been guided to analyze more than read. Bach inventions are excellent in this regard, especially if you try to do different arrangements for them; it's real fun.

I actually just picked up a few scores yesterday; Saint-saens "Organ" Symphony, Brahms and Mozart Concerti, and some Schubert Quartets.

Ear-training. From my experience and that of my peers, learning theory and ear-training in tandem facilitates a mastery of music. To my mind, itís always seemed this way because they overlap, so youíre looking at the same thing from different perspectivesólike the Upanishads.  Essentially, all the things one learns in theory, one learns again, but for oneís ear. Then, you donít need to rely solely on notes but have a sound understanding of how music operates both through the waves and ink.

All IMHO, your mileage may vary.


Metal / Re: Introductions: User Relationships to Classical Music
« on: June 21, 2011, 02:31:19 PM »
I really wish I'd stuck with the regimented theory training, as I'm currently going through all of it again in a rather haphazard manner. 

What are you using to study Theory?

Are you developing your Aural Skills as well?

Metal / Re: Introductions: User Relationships to Classical Music
« on: June 21, 2011, 02:29:32 PM »
I always thought Classical was pretty-sounding. When I aged some and experienced moreóboth emotionally and analyticallyóI found beauty with the internal workings and structure, along with the general connotation of the emotions espoused in Classical. I think what first attracted me was the pure inspiration of my teacheróI was utterly enamored with his level of skill, perception, discipline and clarity. Also, Iíd never seen such relaxed, fluid chops. Currently, Iím a Classical Percussionist doing mostly free lance and sub-list work. I also have a small studio of students.

Someone on here once said they left music for something more stableósmart choice! Even in percussion, the odds are slim but I love Classical fervently, so thereís nothing like getting together with a group of people and really bringing an idea, even the principle of excellence and discipline, to life.

Building a harpsichord sounds wicked! Let me know how it goes, and how she plays. I almost bought this virginal the other day on ebay, but I couldnít justify spending $4,000 on one when Iím hunting for a Marimba. 

Metal / Re: darker side of classical music
« on: April 07, 2011, 04:45:07 PM »
Exceptional reply.
I'd like to add to this sentence...
"The point is, there's plenty of darkness in classical music and you may not even know that you've heard it in some of your favourite pieces."
...that there is in classical such an abundance of melodies, which again can be placed in various categories, that listeners will to a certain degree and based on their own life experiences, find something in certain melodies that others don't, altough it is there to be found.
For example, the second movement of Brahms's second symphony is at the same time sad, and gentle, and intimate, and playful, while still beautiful. On which aspect will you concentrate when you listen to it?

Pieces like this are those that give you hope and then take it away; they are tragic and bittersweet. I suppose everyone experiences emotion differently. Often times, when I come upon something sad, I also feel that life is beautiful at the same time. It's emotional state that I have a hard time describing, and I don't suppose that there's much worth in describing a feeling so magnificent. Classical music - pieces like this - help me to experience this feeling, which I believe reflects the way true reality subsists.
In a word: "The same things that make us laugh also make us cry."

Like the 2nd movement of Beethoven's 7th?

It's somber, but not sad...it accepts angst but it forceful, passionate and warlike in transforming it.  It makes sense: Beethoven wants to invigorate the passions of the spirit with the Symphony, not yoke tears from the eyes.

My take on it, as it relates to that Symphony, at least.

Metal / Re: Listening Guides
« on: March 23, 2011, 03:43:01 PM »
Pianist Andras Schiff lectures and plays through the Beethoven Sonatas:


Metal / Re: Classical vs. Metal
« on: February 26, 2011, 04:48:31 PM »

How can one reach the precipice of what a composer has to say without knowing his language?

To my mind you will gain the knowledge in two ways:

1) observation/listening. Our brains will recognize the patterns aurally, and begin to map them. Itís slower, but it works, also.

2) you learn the ďjargonĒ and supplement with #1(which, you should do anyway). this is the quickest route because you can provide an organizational paradigm to your listening. 

That being said, I think youíre basically correct: with enough time most brains can understand classical, but thatís not always functional; there are bills to pay, families to love, adventures to have and shit to get done.   

Metal / Re: Classical vs. Metal
« on: February 25, 2011, 06:20:02 PM »
Taking the theory and musicianship classes at the local University or Junior College is a good place to start.

I've always felt Classical to be musician's music (perhaps a kiss of death in this age) and so a working, firm knowledge of theory and its application are indispensable in listening to Classical. Style from a Historical point of view, is a great asset, as wellóare they playing Baroque like Baroque? Are they avoiding playing Mozartís fortes, like Beethoven or Wagnerís?

It has also has the advantage of edification, for me at least--I cannot count the number of times Iíve been overtaken by a sense of awe, inspired and invigorated by the pure genius of some composers; Mozart's use of the Neapolitan in the second movement of his 23rd Piano concerto, as well as the subtle hints at "mi"; Beethovenís use of cross relation of f-natural and f-# with a tonicization in the 18th measure of his violin sonata no. 7; Schubertís text painting in Der ErlkŲnig. These are all subtleties I find fascinating because they all appear to hint, or imply an experience the composer is attempting to transmit.

Hope that helps, itís some of what Iíve learned thus far.

Am I the only one here who feels that a good part of this debate is being fed by misinterpretation?

Seems  the cause of it is people bitching about semantics and word usage which is leading them away from the point of the post: Religion, or god is just the terms some people use to describe what science is describing, but in a different way.   Sure some of it is justified through spirituality and mysticism but itís still just manís attempt to describe the same system of which heís a part.

I could easily be mistaken, but it works for my family, and community and makes us a little bit stronger as a whole, fine.

Iím expecting for what almost feels like straw man arguments bitching about my poor choice of terminology rather than the point Iím trying to make.

Iíve given you the fuel, itíd be silly not to expect you light the match.   

Metal / Re: MICTLANTECUHTLI release new album
« on: February 20, 2009, 09:54:18 AM »
They're rad ;)