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Messages - neoclassical

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Interzone / Re: religious beliefs of the classical composers???
« on: July 01, 2008, 06:35:56 AM »
All due respect, you are barking the wrong tree here. Mathematics could and should be an indispensable method for metaphysical understanding, as verbal symbolism is, but you come here acting like charlatan and smartass. You don't build bridges that way, no sir.

We do not mean the same things when we talk of quality and quantity. Setting aside quality for now, can you agree that "number is only a mode of quanitity, and quanitity itself only a category or special mode of being, not coextensive with it or, more precisely still, quantity is only a condition proper to one certain state of existence in the totality of universal existence..."? Mathematics is the science of numbers and what you can do with them. You can remain in the quantitative, or you can transport qualitative concepts. However, I vehemently oppose the view that modern mathematics does so!

Yes, it is possible to use numbers as symbols of quality and metaphysical principles; then we have mathematical symbolism.

Infinity cannot be limited at all. That there are no different "types of infinities" is a consequence of this basic metaphysical truth. Mathematics can be used to illustrate this, by the way.

It is a fundamental error to ignore that symbolism is the science of the Intellect, that mathematics is the science of numbers and that numbers can be symbols like words and images, but that the science of mathematics as a whole is not symbolism proper because it specializes on the quantitative. Not everything is expressible, but for that which is, symbolism is the natural language.

I am neither a charlatan nor a smartass. What I find to be error, I try to correct. This is my primary concern; and if only one reader here profited from the discussion, it was not in vain. However, I refuse to build bridges with what I consider erronous convictions. I repeat that symbolism is superior to mathematics when it comes to understanding reality.

Interzone / Re: religious beliefs of the classical composers???
« on: June 30, 2008, 12:08:17 PM »
a) Maths is not a sufficient science of reality, but symbolism is. It's not that maths is not a traditional science, but since it is limited to quantity, symbolism is the superior science.

You don't have the slightest idea of what you're talking about.

Mathematics utilizes quantities because numbers are the absolute standard unit. The scope of advanced mathematics goes beyond mere quantification: patterns, logic, groups, sets, ordering, and the theory of compution. And what connects all these fields? They are descriptions about universal meta-language of signals and symbolically operating systems.

You cannot understand symbolism without mathematics, because the world and symbols operate precisely according to what can be mathematically shown.
  1  : the science of numbers and their operations, interrelations, combinations, generalizations, and abstractions and of space configurations and their structure, measurement, transformations, and generalizations   
  2  : a branch of, operation in, or use of mathematics <the mathematics of physical chemistry> 

absolute standard unit for measuring what? Quantity.

Symbolism is an exact science much like mathematics, only that it is not as limited as mathematics. It is the employing of forms or images as signs of ideas or of suprasensible things.

Interzone / Re: religious beliefs of the classical composers???
« on: June 30, 2008, 10:17:46 AM »
The Abrahamic faith has us all looking for an anthropomorphic god in the sky, while the transcendental idealist beliefs of ancient Pagans, Hindus and smart people worldwide have us looking for god in the inherent mathematical patterns of reality.
I see two problems with this view:
a) Maths is not a sufficient science of reality, but symbolism is. It's not that maths is not a traditional science, but since it is limited to quantity, symbolism is the superior science.
b) What was known to ancient "Pagans" (a very problematic denomination, to say the least), Hindus and smart people was the core of primordial Christianity as well. The Bible is full of symbolism. What happened is that over the years, people forgot to look beyond the letter.

The quote above is an oversimplification. It is not correct to assume that Christianity had at all times the same characteristics it has today. 2000 years is a time-span that no religion or tradition has really survived. Some religions die (inwardly) earlier than others. Often people attribute intentions to primordial Christianity which are only to be found in Christianity today; they are consequences of corruption and not a fault of primordial Christianity itself:

23For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

 24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

 25Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

28For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

 29Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.


Metal / Re: Bolt Thrower on Artistic Hiatus "Indefini
« on: June 15, 2008, 12:20:26 AM »
While we're already throwing random opinions into the pot... I thought BT's material was much like later Graveland. Consistent quality. Up to Honour-Valour-Pride, at least. The latest was the first really boring one IMO.

But maybe that's just a very personal matter, depending on how long you've been listening to BT, and how much. Thus, you'll become bored with it even if the quality is right (except for their last one--should have quit before that one).

Metal / Re: Music for the Intellectual Elite
« on: June 13, 2008, 02:30:17 AM »
I just think you shouldn't confuse reason with intellect. Although de Victoria's Requiem or Bach's Mass in B Minor are more sentimental than serialist compositions, they're also more intellectual.

Apart from that, music is probably not very important to the intellectual elite, precisely because there are more effective ways to transport knowledge, for example by conversation or books.

Interzone / Re: Experiments in Audiofile
« on: June 11, 2008, 10:35:33 PM »
#2 is a growth strategy -- show people the best of metal, and encourage it to grow.

If we want stronger metal, we need to interact with the community, not just please ourselves.

Point out the bad metal -- yes, makes sense.
Make it available -- no, does not make sense, and does not "show people the best of metal".

Better strategy would be to have threads for popular but bad metal with fake download links that lead to goatse or a statement that warns of bad metal.

You don't encourage the good by propagating the bad. Everyone has heard of metal today, but for most people it has become a spin of pop music, because such people are rather "flat" individuals that don't look for more than what pop music offers. Metal has become increasingly popular, but most of the new metal listeners belong to this group of "pop fans" who bring their drama into metal. Other individuals have potential for an understanding that must be awakened by confronting them with the best music metal has to offer.

Interestinly enough, a search for "heavy metal" on google.com spits out http://www.anus.com/metal/about/history.html for me as the 5th result. "Black metal" with http://www.anus.com/metal/about/blackmetal.html (sic) and "death metal" with http://www.deathmetal.org/ show up right after Wikipedo.

I imagine that a noticable bar on top of those sites with a text like "How does heavy/black/death metal sound like?" and the option to listen to some metal on the spot would be much more effective than making Audiofile unattractive, because that is plain and simple what you are doing by not cleaning it up.

Interzone / Re: Experiments in Audiofile
« on: June 10, 2008, 04:08:35 AM »
Megaupload no longer limits German users as strictly as they used to do. No problems with them at this time. They also seem to have gotten rid of the annoying sex-ads.

Another thing: I don't think subpar music should be in Audiofile at all. Can't condone this new trend. If Gorath is bad, don't link to it.

Interzone / Re: Thrash versus Thrash Metal
« on: June 04, 2008, 04:34:17 AM »
I bet if this is posted around other metal boards you'll receive a lot of indignant reactions.

Yep. Like, "fascists", "it doesn't matter", "but everyone sez thrash metal" etc.
One of metal's best "discriminators", because defending "thrash metal" indicates weakness, ignorance, stupidity.

Metal / Re: Bands worth hearing thread
« on: June 02, 2008, 11:42:55 PM »
Another opinion on WOLVES IN THE THRONE ROOM:

Musically copying GY!BE and Xasthur, although more predictable and overall worse than those bands, if not only for their hipster-ness, including leftist political statements of anti-fascism during concerts. Terribly bland music.

Interzone / Re: Better Death Metal scene?
« on: May 30, 2008, 04:53:48 AM »
The 'scene' isn't important as much as the individuals who make up the band. There could be a huge scene with zero great bands; there could also be a non-scene with the best band in the world. From experience: don't look for a scene, look for bands. Start with this list:

B E S T   E V E R
1. Massacra - Final Holocaust
2. Deicide - Legion
3. Morbid Angel - Blessed Are the Sick
4. Therion - Beyond Sanctorum
5. Sepultura - Morbid Visions
6. Incantation - Onward to Golgotha
7. Morpheus Descends - Ritual of Infinity
8. Necrophobic - The Nocturnal Silence
9. Obituary - Cause of Death
10. Suffocation - Effigy of the Forgotten
11. Atheist - Unquestionable Presence
12. Dismember - Like an Ever-Flowing Stream
13. Amorphis - The Karelian Isthmus
14. At the Gates - The Red in the Sky is Ours
15. Demilich - Nespithe
16. Asphyx - The Rack

I'm sure you can find all of the above albums in the audiofile section. Also check out the individual bands' review pages for more excellent death metal to listen to.

Interzone / Re: Outsider art: Detective fiction
« on: May 27, 2008, 03:01:49 AM »
That's why I liked Marlowe, although it eventually became depressing to see the man struggle against corruption, because he ultimately lacks a higher reference point than morality. Good raw material, though.

Interzone / Re: Metal music listeners more intelligent?
« on: May 26, 2008, 04:20:01 AM »
'Intelligence' is the ability to grasp reality.

The other thing you mentioned is rational ability. The two correlate, but are not necessarily the same thing, because intelligence is not limited to the rational faculty.

Interzone / Re: Metal music listeners more intelligent?
« on: May 25, 2008, 10:46:12 PM »
We must distinguish between a male and female type of metal listener. The male kind discriminates, promotes the best metal and laughs at or ignores the rest.

The female kind has no means of discrimination, and listens to everything as long as it fits a scheme that has been provided by others. Example: br00tal, true, underground, etc.

Interzone / Re: Metal music listeners more intelligent?
« on: May 25, 2008, 10:34:35 PM »
Surely now the epileptoids who lack the mental balls to work as a cashier or an accountant for a multinational company are blushing. They're obviously more intelligent because they happen to listen to shitty Morbid Angel and Deicide albums, haha. First, you must define what you think as intelligent because there are two types of what we think of as intelligent.
There is the geek type of intelligent, you know the overeducated type who buries himself in a ton of books and never seems to see real life beyond the halls of academe. People of this sort choose to find solutions to problems through the creation of theories.
Then we have the person who solves problems in real time because this type of individual choose to live in the real world than to hide like a maggot in a university library.
Who do you think of the two is smarter?

You have a point, but created a false distinction. Surely library worms exist, and realists exist, but the groups are not exclusive. Proof: Thomas Aquinas.

Academic myopia sucks, though.

Metal / Re: Averse Sefira
« on: May 25, 2008, 12:30:25 AM »
* quality individual riffs          -rarely

In my opinion, RICHARD WAGNER is the musical prophet for AVERSE SEFIRA. They must allow him to be an even greater influence on their music than he is now.
They have the potential, and are half-way there.

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