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Messages - scourge
Dunkelheit has the right idea. A little durable, well crafted technology along with good farming practices could take care of the subsistence. Farmers today are each feeding huge numbers of people who do not farm. That accounts for at least some of the extra labor and time spent.
Buildings do not cause learning, nor are millions of bright people incapable of physical construction for their own purposes. Why do we center the energy and time of our civilization around making things that all end up in landfill today? How about reorienting that center? What I'm finding is everyone attempting to justify having a huge population when 99% of it serves only perpetuating itself, behaviour that does not at all differ from bacteria. The top organism on the planet, unnecessary and now very costly to the rest of the natural structure, is thus far failing to justify its own existence.
Hippocrates's school of medicine would not have been built by those who attended it. Pythagoras and his followers/associates would have had far more difficulty creating their theories while lifting stones for a building.
We value the learning that came about, not the buildings that were created. The learning lasted, is still put to use and expanded upon. Many of the buildings did not last and probably none are put to use as intended by those who commissioned the work. These decay into corruption and dust. Learning, like living things, lives on, grows and assuming appropriately supportive minds continue to exist, may flourish indefinitely.
The reason why such large numbers of the lower class existed particularly in those civilizations is because they all enjoy frivolous things. The pyramids, the Parthenon, the coliseum. All these structures of which those civilizations built many of and many similar to take a great deal of skill, labor and time to create. If you wanted a society of the few and elite you could not have such beautiful architecture, roads and buildings would be small and undecorated.
I'm not so sure these material luxuries highlight the apex of mankind's worthiness as a species. Birds, bugs and rodents are also exquisite architects. But they never uncover the mysteries of the universe, decode its intangible mathematics, predict its Forms, comprehend its logic, structure and cycles.
That's really why we exist, not to make physical luxuries - the output of knowing, not the foundation of understanding - that decay and are forgotten in time. For all our understanding up until this time, what output are we producing for it today?
I'm unclear what our vastly more complex modern society has done to make humanity a more worthwhile species than what the Greeks produced. I'm also noting the sensible polis communities they had at one point, which to my knowledge did not need to rely on a servant class in order to prosper.
Its easy to say that smart people should control government and the idiotic should have little power in themselves and i do agree with this, But it is when we actually start to make some sort of plan or present a plan of our own that we must elaborate on.
We have governments in order to manage the idiots. Governments serve no other need.
Who is stupid, what characteristics befall one who is stupid (and it would be best to avoid the tautology here) and why these are unfavorable. All these things need to be explained when someone suggests to cull the population starting at the bottom.
This is similar to the trouble with having a democracy with everyone voting, except we're instead discussing everyone integrated into the same civilization, or inhabiting the same planet for that matter.
Hmm so nice and fun to see certain people consider themselves as special.
This is an ad hominem.
Iq does not equal aspiring in any meaningful way.
This is patently false.
This guy I know, with a mensa certified iq of 150+, he is a semi-alcoholic bartender who hasn't done jack shit since high school.
This is another fallacy of division.
The general idea of "social reform" over here is just as Utopian as communism which many people here strongly advocate against.
This is a strawman argument.
So you think intelligent people leading as a waste of talent?
This is another strawman.
The menial but necessary tasks that make up most of human existence are best done by those too stupid to be aware of their tedium.
We have mostly menial necessary tasks in society because of its poor design. High IQ people not wasting their talent managing the low IQ pool and designing society around the needs of a large low IQ pool would create a more elegant civilization.
Take automobiles for one example. The typical auto factory worker, gas station attendant, parts store cashier, service mechanic or salesman is probably below 120. But, we use automobiles because we have sprawling suburbs, which is a design defect. Efficient, simplified human habitats would eliminate the need for millions of autos and consequently, millions of sub 120s imbedded within the support infrastructure.
In healthy societies such objections are marginalized by a combination of effective institutions and public misfortunes for overly vocal malcontents.
The idea is to find a way to better maintain a healthy society so that it does not frequently return to an unhealthy state where it begins to marjinalize the wrong people. The problem isn't a lack of tools available to the rulers because these instruments and institutions never really went away. The heart of the problem always lies with the quality of persons composing the society.