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Messages - BillHopkins

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Interzone / Re: Like an everflowing stream
« on: May 21, 2013, 01:28:19 AM »
I am both new and old on this board. I've been lurking for many years. Now I want to participate, and I want to participate in a right way. I want to inspire and to be inspired, and I want to become increasingly aware of, when- and how I'm doing it wrong, so I can correct my own approach when it needs correction. Just as I want in real life.

What do you want from these boards?

Personally, fearless discussion. I don't necessarily care if you find a line of thought uninspiring, as that is a function of your own hangups, background, genetics and self-constructed mental world. What is inspiring to a Nietzschean is not going to be inspiring to a perennialist or a hard-lefty, for instance. I like to connect with people beyond these aribtrary 'doors of peception', using the tools of science, logic and reason that were developed for this purpose.

Having said this, we are all here (well, most of us) because we like old-school metal, and so luckily there will be some meeting of tastes and affections due to this. Not everything comes down to naked 'objectivity'. Moreover, metal will be (surely) the primary grounding/relational zero-point of these forums, as opposed to lifestyle or political orientation for instance.

Interzone / Re: White Nationalism
« on: May 21, 2013, 01:19:40 AM »
This is a great speech on the topic:


Interzone / Re: White Nationalism
« on: May 21, 2013, 01:05:25 AM »
It has its problems but I don't understand why it's so marginal.

White nationalism is invalid in eyes of the world because of it's perceived link straight to Nazism and the Shoah.

The perception is like this: white nationalism is necessary (all nazis are white nationalists) and sufficient (all white nationalists are nazis) for nazism.

Perhaps, on the other hand, this perception is wrong and the reality is more like this: white nationalism is necessary but not sufficient for nazism (i.e. all nazis are white nationalists but not all white nationalists are nazis). My point is that the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater.

One other consideration: I'm sure if Jewish (et al) nationalism (which, is not as ethnically based as nazism was) led to 6 million in death camps, it would be invalidated as an idea.

Interzone / Re: Liberalism causes terrorism
« on: May 13, 2013, 09:00:43 PM »
People are at liberty to engage, or not, wouldn't you say?
A decision not to engage does not necessarily mean what it is so often taken to mean, either.
You may choose to go to the trouble of making a huge case to present, but nobody is obliged to honour it.
Or, in fact, even read it.

It would be great, for sure, to always have someone on tap, to run your thoughts by, and get some kind of feedback from. This is one good use for a wife, or a close friend. But the internet is neither one.

I - luckily - happen to have a wife, three cats, and a rabbit, all of whom are good for bringing me back to the actual important stuff pertaining to living. Which reminds me: bath-time for the rabbit...

Formiddable! Then perhaps you would like to run YOUR thoughts by them more often, instead of us? I thought not! Not everyone cares about your personal life, and I now wonder why you always seem to feel the need  to bandy about your domestic habbits while throwing around baseless accusations relating to our personal lives. There is something just as defunct about talking about your wife, rabbit and cats in the context of this thread as the content of your allegation.

This happens to be a debate about ideas presently, and a common occurance, whether intentional or not, is to fail to engage with your interlocutor and to put forward an objection that doesn't trouble the ediface of his argument at all. Scourge DID choose to engage with me, but without considering what I was trying to say in the first place. In fact, even you chose to engage with me on a point or two, and didn't bother to continue the conversation. But I must capitulate, as, evidenced by your obvious real-world zeal and hemmingway-like authenticity, this hesitance on your behalf was surely based on a clear comparitive abundance in the department of domestic attachments, as opposed to mere intellectual flakeyness. For the former, I must humbly admit, is a department in which you positively outdo myself and I'm sure everyone else on.

I loath personal drama, so my apologies to others, but as is all too common that's the only occasion of contact with you Crow.

Interzone / Re: Liberalism causes terrorism
« on: May 13, 2013, 08:04:36 PM »
I don't know anything about reversing history. That's your strawman and not what I'm predicting.

So you don't care to even entertain the hypothesis i've presented? (After entertaining it, it might show it's credibility). To ask the question, now with it's contents fleshed out: So you don't think forms of social assoication [i.e. those of liberal democratic socities: rational, atomised, non-particularlist] are caused by the needs of underlying, structural factors [industrial then post-industrial economies]? If you do, then something like a 'character shortage' is not going to roll back liberal forms of social association to traditional ones... get it (unless these character shortages are so massive that they undermine the underlying economic base)? One can keep asking for people who you are discussing with to engage with you, but sometimes it can get to be like pissing into the wind.

You argued:

But its essential leadership model, the bureaucratic or transactional one, will prove impractical for demographic reasons: lack of available character and intellect for all the staffing needed, widespread normative corruption and complete loss of public confidence because of the foregoing.

...in response to my asking you to observe that your former statements of liberalism being in some way unsustainable have (to my mind) been empirically falsified by the last 100 years of history which has seen, not liberalism being selected out of the process of cultural selection, but every viably popular competitor to liberalism being selected out.

I'm asking you to clarify why the observations in the above quote, which seem to me to be of minor significance, will roll back the direction history as it is empirically and theoretically (see my first post) headed.

Essentially, only economic roll back is going to lead to social roll back, unless i'm wrong. Then the lack of character and intellect would have to be big enough to lead to economic contraction back to pre industrial revolution stages to result in traditional forms of association (ethnicity, local community, clan) being realised again on a population level.

See also: http://bev.berkeley.edu/ipe/readings/RobertNisbetArticle.pdf

Nisbet has been important to the paleo-conservative movement in the USA, so this is not more theory from 'neo-conservatives'.

Interzone / Re: Non-metal
« on: May 12, 2013, 07:17:14 PM »
Intense! Even a blast beat or two  ;)


Largely borrowed from this.

Yep, Keith Emerson directly encorporated much classical into the rock format.

Interestingly, the original Bartok piece you linked to sounds slightly like a death metal song covered by a pianist.

Interzone / Re: Non-metal
« on: May 10, 2013, 10:34:56 PM »
So then the omission of Pink Floyd is very unlikely to break the genealogy of metal so that even without it we would still have had what's magnificent in metal. Effectively, Pink Floyd and some of the others offered = not metal.

I wasn't posting links to their music as part of a 'metal genealogy'. It's music played in the format of pop/rock groups that in terms of content is going for something over and above narcissism, it takes you somewhere, has motifs, and lofty themes. It may appeal to people who like metal. We've noted you don't like their music.

But the krautrock movement was directly influenced by them, so if you think this is relevant to the genealogy of metal then so is pink Floyd.

Interzone / Re: Non-metal
« on: May 07, 2013, 07:03:52 PM »
Good choice. I like them, they just don't move me as much as some other krautock.

Interzone / Re: Non-metal
« on: May 07, 2013, 08:01:00 AM »

Interzone / Re: Non-metal
« on: May 07, 2013, 07:57:02 AM »

Interzone / Re: Non-metal
« on: May 07, 2013, 07:56:13 AM »

Interzone / Re: Non-metal
« on: May 07, 2013, 07:50:43 AM »
Isao Tomita: Electronic adaptor of classical music


Interzone / Re: Non-metal
« on: May 07, 2013, 07:47:28 AM »
Jean Michel Jarre: French Electronica, but in the 'Berlin School' style (a la Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze, Ashra)


Metal / Re: Reggay that is similar to metal and kraftwerk
« on: May 07, 2013, 07:27:05 AM »
Very interesting, but I personally can’t feel much metal spirit or Kraftwerk influence in this piece.

I have been quite interested in the potential for electronic music of the broken beat or dubstep variety since hearing Beherit songs like Tribal Death or Temple of Lykos.

I just love the hypnotic, ritualistic atmosphere it creates coupled with that pulsating sense of motion found in all the Kraftwerk albums. I think it works by using pure rhythm to in some way de-emphasise rhythm and in turn create an ambience and spaciousness for (meta-)melody to evolve.

Also check out:






Boards of Canada are quite sublime. I like your analysis, however much of the attraction is also textural and not mathetmatical.

You might like these, but be carefull. The people seriously into this music are also seriously into Terrance McKenna.


Interzone / Re: Liberalism causes terrorism
« on: May 05, 2013, 08:11:01 PM »
But its essential leadership model, the bureaucratic or transactional one, will prove impractical for demographic reasons: lack of available character and intellect for all the staffing needed, widespread normative corruption and complete loss of public confidence because of the foregoing.

I don't know where you're coming from. Why will there suddenly be a lack of available character and intellect in the bureaucratic world? And how will this reverse the entire direction of history?

In the 22nd century, where once LDC seemed to have planted a few roots, I would expect the return of various forms of transformational and charismatic leadership organizations including tribalism with countryside warlords and religious leaders like clerics, mullas and imams.

You're completely talking past me. I've presented an underlying theory of why the forms of association in post-industrial socities are going in the other direction, away from traditional forms, due to the needs of industralian and then post-industrial economies, and here you're just asserting 'nah, forms of associations will go the otherway again at unspecified time 'x' in the future', without giving any reason or justification for thinking this. Is it because you think there will be collapse of the economic system that, on the reasoning i've presented, drives forms of social association, re: your last point below?

We'll get plenty of change in the West with the continued growth of the existing grey market salvager and farmsteader economy, organized crime supplanting state government with no-go zones, and the probable return of independent city-states in the face of the disintigration of federalism. The nation-state is getting outcompeted on multiple fronts.

This is getting into wild-eye distopian fantasy land.

International forms of capitalism of the magnitude and scale we have now rely entirely on fossil fuels. There is an inverse correlation between abundance of fuel at a given time and the recession of global trade. The resource only replenishes over the course of geological ages, far outstripped by the pace of consumption. Given the current rate, next century may highlight the return of dirigibles and sailing ships.

See my last response to Crow, if you would! If you think i'm wrong, let me know.

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