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Messages - Wild
Evil and lawlesness, hatred, insanity, slavery, and absurd cruelty are (an intrinisc) part of the path of nihilism and if you deny any of the uncomfortable parts, you are neither a nihilist nor do you have a solid understanding of what nihilism entails.
How does ascribing moralistic judgments to a nihilist's actions make sense?
For humans to be fully human they need to achieve what no humans have yet achieved.
There are a few fully-human humans. They have achieved what the many never will.
Thus Plato's Cave anecdote. They are generally held to be idiots.
No society has yet been fully human.
Older ones were more so than current ones, though they still had flaws as you pointed out. Current society is probably as close to being as un-human as possible, perhaps second to the Soviet Union.
Quote from: Plato
Imagine several prisoners who have been chained up in a cave for all of their lives. They have never been outside the cave. They face a wall in the cave and they can never look at the entrance of the cave. Sometimes animals, birds, people, or other objects pass by the entrance of the cave casting a shadow on the wall inside the cave. The prisoners see the shadows on the wall and mistakenly view the shadows as reality.
However, one man breaks free from his chains and runs out of the cave. For the first time, he sees the real world and now knows that it is far beyond the shadows he had been seeing. He sees real birds and animals, not just shadows of birds and animals.
This man is excited about what he sees and he goes back to his fellow prisoners in the cave to tell them about the real world. But to his astonishment, they donít believe him. In fact, they are angry with him. They say the shadows are reality and that the escaped prisoner is crazy for saying otherwise.
Some moments I feel like the escapee and am baffled that other people don't understand. I think: "they must be so fucking stupid."
Other occasions I hear something that's obviously true and I think "why didn't that occur to me?"
Yet, there's also the other occasions where I hear something and it seems like it could be profound, but it's difficult to understand at the time. In such moments I react with my club, so to speak.
Those have turned out to be some of the greatest revelations of my life, a few months later.
Being one of the "fellow prisoners" is one of my greatest fears.
Us cavemen always had our rights...but sometimes we get agitated and need an elder to come bash our heads together. By talking to us in our own language, it reminds us that there are other avenues of communication. Cavemen can be very important at the right times...but some discourse requires a defter touch.
Message received crow.
Message received crow.
The difference between communism and the Bible is, that the Bible doesn't promise anything it won't deliver, once you 'get it'.
Again, that seems convenient. The corollary is that if one thinks the Bible promises something and fails, then it was simply misunderstood. The text itself is never questioned.
Communism is a lot like religion, only with God removed and replaced with 'the revolution': Once, in some fabled prehistoric society, there was peace and good order. Then came the fall, and with it man's brutal submision of man. But soon, very soon, the revolution will come, the brutalizers will be punished and the good natural order of communism restored. Halleluja, comrade!
Remarkably similar to the Christian narrative.
The main difference is the reality-part: The Bible has reverence and thanksgiving. Communism has the ill advised cocktail of chaos, confusion and government handouts.
The Bible also prescribes genital mutilation, killing Gentiles, and a negative conception of the Earth as a fallen and dismal plane.
That being said, I can't really say whether the Bible itself is something good or bad - and I don't think I'll ever reach a decision. It's a question that lies at the heart of western civilization, really.
There's good and there's bad.
What positive element do you think Christianity brought to Europe that it did not have before?
Still, I think it functions as a better moral guide, (and as such a means toward social control) than most of the alternatives. A society based in a strong faith will probably be a more healthy and stable one than one, where every family owns a copy of Das Kapital, or Mein Kampf - or The End of History and the Last Man, for that matter.
This is the most compelling argument in favor of religion. For some reason that I don't understand, the masses are incapable of behaving decently without a religious, moral framework. I just don't think Christianity is the ideal candidate.
To paraphrase Charles Manson: If the Christians had believed in the Bible, we wouldn't be in all this trouble. I don't know why they don't.
If Christians had believed in the Bible, they would have "turned the other cheek" and been killed off by the Romans.
Yes - I had an understanding of the eternal long before I even began to read the Bible - it just helped me to realize a few things, that I hadn't yet. Whether it appeals to you or not is probably a question of individual psychology. A summer field swaying in the wind is just as good, if not even better.
At the risk of delving too personally, what specifically do you gain from the Bible?
Society, and its rules, are arbitrary. They have no basis in reality.
Current society, perhaps.
Older, organic societies, while still being arbitrary in the sense of being ordered by preference, had a basis in reality in that they formed a hierarchical structure and reverence for the natural.
I tend to agree with what's already been said: Christianity isn't to blame for the errors of people - people are to blame for making excuses, such as blaming religion for what's really their own faults and imperfections.
That seems pretty convenient - and it could be applied to any ideology...in fact, it's one I hear commies trot out in order to defend the history of the Soviet Union.
I look at the Bible like this: It's the word of God, meaning it's vessel for whatever sort of truth you have within yourself. To some, it's a book of lies and deceit. To others, it has great meaning and beauty. But you can't really say that it is purely one or the other.
I've tried to understand what you mean here and I can't. But then again, I never try to seek spiritual fulfillment through a book...seeing a summer field swaying in the wind is closer to "God" than anything I've ever read.
I see that some people derive meaning from these monotheistic books and I don't understand why: it seems that people such as yourself already have an understanding of the eternal to begin with and you project that into the books. I don't see what they add.
You have to take this portion in context with the rest of the book. We have dominion because we are instructed to act as shepards. This is not a failure of the Bible, it is a failure of the human.
I suspect animals get on just fine without us.
« on: September 09, 2013, 01:26:18 PM »
Wasn't the last century the most humans have (yet) killed each other?
« on: September 05, 2013, 12:34:53 PM »
Besides, what could you possibly achieve by such ridicule?
Well, it was the catalyst for our exchange tonight.
So ridicule is especially unkind, even cruel, in this case.
I ridicule Christianity as I ridicule liberalism, Marxism, feminism, Islam, and all the rest. Would you call me cruel to attack the others?
03-04 courageously (in these times) states he is a Christian. Being one inevitably entails revering his path and his God.
It takes courage to state many beliefs. That doesn't mean the belief is entitled to any respect from others.
I expect people around these parts to be able to deal with their "muh feelings!"