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Messages - Wild

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Interzone / Re: "The poor": kill them
« on: January 20, 2014, 01:30:29 PM »
The trajectory of your response to Imposition's statement (which was direct Rawls) pushes in a similar direction.

The real problem is the tendency to excuse an individual's inability to earn an income as being a problem outside of the individual's control that can (or should) be corrected by others.

Some people are not functional enough to earn an income.
Some people are functional enough, but choose not to for various personal reasons/drama.

They do not "have their shit together", to quote Conservationist.
They will earn less than those who do.

Some jobs pay more than others - usually due to the amount of work it takes to perform it.

None of the above is a problem that needs fixing.

Interzone / Re: Atheism
« on: January 20, 2014, 10:47:37 AM »
Knowledge enlightens. Intelligence is "merely" a possible vehicle and occasional hindrance to that.

Interzone / Re: "The poor": kill them
« on: January 20, 2014, 10:18:31 AM »
Great response to Rawls' representatives in this thread istaros.  :)

Are Vigilance and Imposition personas of one person? Often, their views are slightly different but the method of discourse is identical.

This forum is like an onion.

Interzone / Re: Who are the pests?
« on: January 10, 2014, 10:00:54 PM »
It's ok we're all prozak anyway.

Interzone / Re: animals and lessons
« on: January 10, 2014, 09:58:12 PM »
Spiders are great. Elegant creatures and a joy to watch. Similar to felines in the regard. Jumping spiders especially seem quite mammal-like.

In regards to the web analogy, I'm inclined to say the human mind is confined to a space: the skull which holds our brains in place.

Interzone / Re: Who are the pests?
« on: January 10, 2014, 09:08:40 PM »

FAT eh?

Interzone / Re: Who are the pests?
« on: January 08, 2014, 10:28:17 AM »

I remembered what I wanted to ask you last night. is hunting the only form of honor regarding the consuming of am animal? I feel like livestock raised on one's own property, given proper care and diet, and slaughtered humanely is honorable. One builds a direct relationship with the creatures as one does a garden and an intimate understanding of the cycles of life.

This still retains the notion that animals are products to be manipulated for human gain.

Hunting is manipulation for human gain, yes, but it does not reduce animals to products - they are free to live until the hunter attempts to capture one. Then a great struggle for life ensues, leaving the weak behind and allowing the stronger, faster to survive.

The reason I object to hunting from humans is due to many reasons, most of which are wrapped in layers of misanthropy.

Interzone / Re: Who are the pests?
« on: January 06, 2014, 10:37:39 PM »
There's more going on in this thread than squabbling over details.

That's "How do you like your cornflakes?" type of stuff.

This is about the relationship between man and nature. This is the type of stuff wars are fought over.

Interzone / Re: Who are the pests?
« on: January 06, 2014, 10:19:23 PM »
Wild, on January 7 2014 in a response posted to Metal Hall.

Interzone / Re: Who are the pests?
« on: January 06, 2014, 10:05:02 PM »
If I presented a cow the choice between grass and dead last, it's not choosing you.

Interzone / Re: Who are the pests?
« on: January 06, 2014, 09:54:25 PM »
I don't understand why one extreme (mass consumption/displacement/destruction of non-human life) has to lead vegans in the complete opposite extreme.

Look at it this way: somebody must atone.

Interzone / Re: Who are the pests?
« on: January 06, 2014, 09:43:00 PM »
Forbinator, you have my respect for being vegan. However, there's too much Peter Singer-style liberalism in your post.

We are surrounded by speciesism, but with no justification given for exactly what the relevant differences are between people and cows (for example) that make one ok to kill but not the other, because it is so ingrained within society. Everyone we know is ethically opposed to the murder of innocent humans for food/pleasure/entertainment etc. yet they fail to extend this same position to other sentient animals based on a naturalistic fallacy ie. "but the cavemen did it!" or "but lions eat zebras!" as if cavemen and wild animals are a reasonable model to base one's ethics upon in civilised society. Adopting caveman/lion ethics is effectively the same as dismissing ethics altogether, which could be a logically coherent position as long as you don't complain if a beloved human is murdered.

It's true that the position of society is moronic and incoherent - however I don't think it's a good idea to confuse modern carnivore ethics with cavemen ethics.

One views animals as pieces of meat wrapped in plastic.
The other viewed them as fellow travelers in the great gladiatorial arena of life.

[To clarify: civilization can be compatible with caveman ethics. We are mammals and observe territorial politics. Suffering/war/death are not opposed to civilization. Thinking otherwise leads to Christianity/liberalism/general faggotry]

Now if for example, Hitler had scientific proof that Jews were inferior, would this have made the Holocaust justifiable?

Certainly. The culling of an inferior path within a species is natural.

Without such proof, it still couldn't be said to be "wrong" - it's simply a natural product of mammalian politics. We live. We struggle. We die.

My problem with humans in relation to meat consumption is this: there is no struggle - and therefore no honor. 98% of people would refuse to ever see meat again if it meant they'd have to survive being chased by a hungry tiger to reach it.

Those people do not deserve to feast on superior lifeforms.

Interzone / Re: Who are the pests?
« on: January 06, 2014, 09:00:33 PM »
I have 0 interest in convincing somebody who thinks animals need humans to "elevate" them of anything.

Worthwhile speech discussing the split between science and religion and how it relates to the modern conception of nature. Covers the artistic and philosophical evidence of this change, in addition to considering what can be done about it. 


Interzone / Frank Schaeffer - Why I Converted To Eastern Orthodoxy
« on: January 06, 2014, 07:33:43 PM »
Interesting talk, touches on many areas of interest to this forum. Discusses the limp-wristedness of Standard American Protestantism (SAP) and the failure of modern education, in addition to an explanation on how Orthodox Christianity offers a solution to moderns dissatisfied with a Christianity stripped of meaning.


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