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Messages - fenrir

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16
Metal / Re: Eucharist
« on: June 27, 2014, 07:24:02 AM »
Once again the ambiguities of language are obfuscating what I am trying to say. The word refined can refer to "developed or improved so as to be precise or subtle", but the definition I was going for was "elegant and cultured in appearance, manner, or taste". Going by the latter definition, I would say Eucharist's aesthetic is much more refined than AtG by virtue of their ornate melodies and overall atmosphere of stateliness.

What do you mean by "atmosphere of stateliness?

17
Metal / Re: Eucharist
« on: June 26, 2014, 03:21:02 PM »

Quote
You're talking about impressions. I'm talking about composition.
Are not emotional/existential impressions the whole point of composition?

Structure and technique are only meaningful insofar as how they are put to use in communicating an experience, ideal, emotional revelation, etc. The form of a composition is subordinate to what it is trying to communicate.

No doubt there is a kind of 'mathematical' aspect to music appreciation, but if that's all you listen for, you're missing the forest for the trees.

Ah, don't jump from tree to tree.
We both agree on the immense expressive power of early At the Gates.

I mentioned the technical and nuanced aspect of The Red in the Sky is Ours only because you were trying to say that Eucharist is more "refined" (yes, you said it after my initial response, but an implication of the sort was there from the beginning).

If we will talk about refinement, we are talking about technical devices and how they work to express things, correct. Eucharist doesn't seem to me as powerful or as versatile as early At the Gates.
They do seem more accessible and plain, though. More innocent, in a way. That being said, their music is really enjoyable.

18
Metal / Re: Eucharist
« on: June 25, 2014, 09:52:44 AM »
Quote
Eucharist's debut filters melancholy emotions through a desire for something greater. It is more controlled and refined, which makes it a more palatable listen than AtG's debut.

This is where I completely disagree.
Palatable -> for some people, sure. Its harmony is more consonant.
More refined? no, not really. That is what I mean when I say metalheads do not understand the extent of the prowess of TRITSIO.  My above description and arguments were not philosophical or poetic, like what you said about it:

Quote
TRitSiO has an almost unhinged quality that is reminiscent of moments of clarity and beauty amid the fractured psyche of a someone driven to madness by the modern world; in a word, manic.

You're talking about impressions. I'm talking about composition.

19
Metal / Re: Eucharist
« on: June 25, 2014, 05:29:34 AM »
At the Gates' The Red in the Sky is Ours is much more superior as a whole to Eucharist's work.  And it has nothing to do with it being "closer to traditional death metal". It is about arrangement.
That album BREATHES. It transpires life. What I mean by this is that the stops, the pauses, the use of monophony, homophony and polyphony at selected places for specific effects, the changes in signature or alternation of sycopated with non-syncopated passages in a coherent manner was done to an effect greater than any of its peers. It is difficult to put it clearly without having to goal into excruciating detail, but it is not only about "proper" arrangement, it is about a certain inspiration that gives songs a certain life-like quality.

I don't know of any metal album that comes close to touching what TRitSiO did.  It is the closest Death Metal has come to assimilating classical music thinking into itself. It is not "classical interludes" or some "baroque patterns" or even the use of "strings". It's the kind of thinking in composition. The use of binary form in passages with some connecting sections that are not repeated. Repetition occurs, but not really in a pop way. Repetition of main parts occur in classical music as well. In this At the Gates album, there are no "choruses". 

As in good classical music, there is also no dominant aspect. Is the melodic aspect the most dominant? not really, it is ever-present, perhaps, but not the core. Is it the rhythmic aspect? no, it isn't but it's key to its success. Is it the wild yet rudimentary (by modern standards) drumming? no, but its efficiency and its not doing more than necessary is also important to the final goal. Also, the music is not dominated by any particular instrument section: by vocals, by guitars or by the drums. But each of them is absolutely essential in an almost equal way (alright, the vocals maybe a bit more peripheral).
This classical thinking at its core is what most metal fans (even the ones who worship this album) seem to be unable to grasp.

Quote
(...) when you make music everything has to be integrated, and that you are not able to detect the different elements. (...) Music is about integration. (...) all the different elements are connected. (...) there is no independent element. That tempo is not an independent element, that expression is not an independent element. That everything is constantly and permanently connected.
Daniel Barenboim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCwthMqPGYo

20
Metal / Re-casting Metal: Rhythm and Meter in the Music of Meshuggah
« on: June 25, 2014, 03:11:11 AM »
For those interested in a more technical analysis. Independently of if you like this band or not, this is educational material.
From the beginning of the article it is clear that the author himself thinks that the value of the band's music lies more in socio-cultural activities. The music has little value in itself.  Now, I think a lot of modern sociologists think this about all music... I say they don't understand music enough. As far as the people I've met are concerned, classical performance majors in general understand the inherent value and meaning of music far better than the the musicologists and other pure analysts. Most composition major students or professional composers nowadays tend to be technical wankers or stout utilitarians as well. I've been able to connect better with performers in terms of my views about music, maybe because in their case, they must live and channel the music through their "souls" and bodies.

I am interested in some of the author's last remarks:

Quote
individuality and originality are highly prized in this subgenre, and bands frequently develop idiosyncratic musical practices to assert individuality.

Quote
During interviews, fans consistently emphasize the technical aspects of the music as a source, if not the source, of attraction.
1

Meshuggah does not make music, it makes rhythmic exercises that attract "sophisticated" people because they "get it". Combined with the first statement this also tells me that this music is all about standing out in any way possible, it's essentially music for posturing.
Just like what the writer of the SMR says about Sotajumala and metalcore:
Quote
Itís like a politician who makes speeches about how he organizes files in his office.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/6375990/Re-casting-Metal-Rhythm-and-Meter-in-the-Music-of-Meshuggah]Re-casting Metal: Rhythm and Meter in the Music of Meshuggah


by Jonathan Pieslak

from the Music Theory Spectrum journal

21
Metal / Why is deathmetal.org important
« on: June 23, 2014, 03:14:32 AM »
Real art reception needs to be controlled and guided. An ignorant audience will not appreciate it. Welcome to the 20th century...

From Walter Benjamin's The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction
Under XII:
"Mechanical reproduction of art changes the reaction of the masses toward art (...) The progressive reaction is characterized by the direct, intimate fusion of visual and emotional enjoyment with the orientation of the expert. Such fusion is of great social significance. The greater the decrease in the social significance of an art form, the sharper the distinction between criticism and enjoyment by the public. The conventional is uncritically enjoyed, and the truly new is criticized with aversion. With regard to the screen, the critical and the receptive attitudes of the public coincide. (...)
Although this circumstance in itself should not lead one to conclusions about the social role of painting, it does constitute a serious threat as soon as painting, under special conditions and, as it were, against its nature, is confronted directly by the masses."

https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/benjamin.htm

22
Metal / Re: Why is metal retarded?
« on: May 15, 2014, 09:02:53 PM »
Intelligence is a bell curve, so if you're at the far right of the curve, everything else seems retarded. There is no reason to think that intelligence in metalheads is distributed differently than in the entire population.

What might be a difference is that nowadays nearly everybody in Western society a) knows more or less how to read and write, b) has access to the internet, whereas this wasn't the case 50 (a) or 10 (b) years ago.

On top of that, society encourages individual expression. The dictum is "everybody has the right to have an opinion", and "opinions" are considered to be just that: not related to the knowledge/understanding of facts. Opinions have become like "taste" - and de gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum, so everybody feels safe to say their part, since people think "opinions" can't be refuted because the majority of people (that bell curve again) think they are merely subjective.

Society encourages this participation/expression in public debates, since public debates have become a market (Facebook, usercomments on various sites, etc.).

Nothing broke, it's just a side effect of educational and technological advancements: idiots (including the idiots in metal) have gotten a larger forum than the town square or the local bar.

This guy said it well. Here's your answer, DMBM.  Little more than can be added to this.
Cultivate values worth cultivating, as Tancred Hauteville said, influence whomever seems to have the brains to understand a little more, and move on past the large masses of idiots.

23
Metal / Re: What bands are you listening to today?
« on: May 07, 2014, 06:44:00 AM »
Started on a playlist that will probably end by tomorrow evening as I am able to listen throughout a great part of the day and evening.

Basically, it's Wagner's The Ring of the Nibelungs , with a classic Black Metal albums in between.
Started off with The Celtic Winter, and then into Das Rheingold.
The other Black Metal albums presiding the other three sections are Transilvanian Hunger, Det Frysende Nordariket and Dol Goldur.
To close the playlist I placed Hvis Lyset Tar Oss and Filosofem after Gotterdammerung.

It may be someone thinks this interrupts the feeling of the opera. But I think considering the fact that each of the sections is from 2 to 4 hours long, I am not sure this is a valid point. You 'd need to take breaks from it anyway. And I will, and while in the break submerge into the small window into spiritual worlds those Black Metal albums present us with.

24
Metal / Re: What bands are you listening to today?
« on: April 30, 2014, 05:55:30 PM »
Black Metalling early Ancient and Immortal...
Bach and Locatelli

I've found that I enjoy my listening more by alternating between well-composed music with these opposite characteristics. 
A very stable one versus a largely dissonant one.

25
Metal / Re: You probably haven't heard of Morir es Vivir but...
« on: April 22, 2014, 02:06:39 AM »
Also, the name is pretty ridiculous, even as far as Death Metal names go:
"To Die is to Live".  Really? what's that supposed to mean?  That your life starts after death only? is this a Christian band?  or are they just whining about their lives and how much they want to die? Or is it just an attempt at getting a cool name without thinking too much about what it means?

26
Metal / Re: You probably haven't heard of Morir es Vivir but...
« on: April 22, 2014, 02:03:56 AM »
they are one of the most talented death metal bands I've ever heard.

You haven't listened to much good Death Metal, have you? 
This is OK for an amateur band making pop-structured Death Metal-sounding music.

27
Audiofile / Re: Requests/Report Dead Links
« on: April 10, 2014, 05:12:06 AM »
Thank you very much, fenrir.

Thank you for bringing those two albums to my attention.  I'm liking them a lot.

Keep an eye open for Endura's Black Eden album if you can, please.

28
Audiofile / Re: Requests/Report Dead Links
« on: April 09, 2014, 04:35:09 PM »

Zpoan Vtenz - Gimę nugalėt


Uploaded at 200+ kbps MP3

29
Audiofile / Zpoan Vtenz
« on: April 09, 2014, 04:32:34 PM »
Zpoan Vtenz
Zpoan Vtenz MP3s



Zpoan Vtenz - Gime Nugalet (1998)



Zpoan Vtenz - Gime Nugalet (Mega)

30
Audiofile / Re: Requests/Report Dead Links
« on: April 09, 2014, 02:45:23 AM »
Skyforger - Zobena Dziesma


Uploaded in 192 kbps MP3.  Maybe someone can find a better quality rip of this later on.

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