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Messages - fenrir

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Metal / Re: Obscura vrs From Wisdom to Hate
« on: December 26, 2013, 07:26:52 PM »

Edit: Perhaps I can summarize; everything I have found on FWth is in Obscura, only less so in the former album. I use this word a lot, but it is very appropriate for that album I think... Normed. From Wisdom is Obscura normed. Do give it more time, please.

I am, and I through discussion and re-listening I have come to appreciate Obscura more.
And I think you are right, the end product, musically, Obscura is definitely superior, somehow. Its trascendental nature, in my opinion comes through as a very important aspect, for me.

I just think that Obscura is not mature, and what a perfect thing would've been to have Obscura's expression and development harnessed, understood and balanced as FWtH is without being limited by it as that latter album is.

Metal / Re: Obscura vrs From Wisdom to Hate
« on: December 25, 2013, 02:34:12 AM »

That's too bad, dude, I strongly recommend listening first to Considered Dead and Erosion of Sanity. They have the totally irrational and frightening feeling of being sped through a maze of huge and dangerous objects. FWTH gives me a similar feeling, but more like I can clearly see ahead at the path laid out for me, so I can appreciate the craftmanship that created it. Still not as intense as the first two albums.

That's definitely true, about intensity.  But intensity is not everything I look for in music, but I appreciate intense releases.  I appreciate FWtH for its strong points and enjoy it for them too. 
I am really into The Erosion of Sanity.  I really like its unpredictability.  But I somehow cannot get into Considered Dead. I somehow even have trouble remembering the songs in it.  I should listen to it more attentively, I think.

One final remark on Obscura, I think it does have a lot of flaws but what makes it great is something most of its fans cannot even really distinguish, IMO.  It is not its apparent technicality or dissonance (merely superficial aspects of it) which make it special but its that the final product strives to go beyond Metal as we know it while STILL REMAINING Metal in spirit. That is probably the true reason why Obscura feels like such a mammoth.  Besides the compositional lack of control shown in that album, I think I would make the album end on the 6th track.  Everything after it is rehashing of ideas, even if those songs are cool too.  I say Clouded is a very valuable track in that album.

Interzone / Re: Subjects in death metal lyrics
« on: December 24, 2013, 11:59:37 PM »
I would agree that good music with poor lyrics will generally work better than poor music with good lyrics, but to be honest I can't really think of a great album that has terrible lyrics.

I think it has to do with the attitude towards what you are doing.  If you are pouring your very best into the music and you respect your own music, I doubt that you will write lyrics you think are complete bullshit for it.

Take the vilified Deicide, for instance.  If you read the lyrics of Legion, they are a lot more philosophical  than they seem at first, because on top they can be seen as epic and cheesy. I remember that their song "Dead but Dreaming" has references to Sumerian mythology/beliefs, and uses them to state something further about his/their own philosophy in this world.  Yet I cannot nail down what exactly that is.

Metal / Re: Obscura vrs From Wisdom to Hate
« on: December 24, 2013, 10:14:33 AM »
I have no interest at all in listening to it. Prior to the newest album, it was the only item in their catalog I avoided.

That's their debut album for me...

Metal / Re: Obscura vrs From Wisdom to Hate
« on: December 24, 2013, 02:30:09 AM »
I find FWTH more impressive than Obscura. It is slightly more direct, and delivers its payload more efficiently. There are some ripping songs. There is more of a classical influence.

Obscura doesn't resolve enough. There are not enough conclusions.

Thank you. I need to learn to verbalize my impressions more efficiently.
You describe my precise thoughts the first few times I listened to Obscura after I was able to bear its aesthetics.
At the moment I enjoy the album more than ever, but what you just said remains my impartial opinion of it.

Interzone / Re: Nature and anti-art
« on: December 24, 2013, 12:44:50 AM »
Starting to browse O9A...
On the surface it seems something I would like to know and follow, just to at least help myself to bring more structure and discipline to my movement towards goals and my mental development.
I hope there is more substance to it than the mere gibberish outsiders tend to think these philosophical currents have.

Metal / Re: Obscura vrs From Wisdom to Hate
« on: December 23, 2013, 10:40:22 PM »
It took me a long time to "get" FWTH. It is very consistently structured, not predictable, not virtuousic to the extent of flashy. Still, not as warped or spirit-stirring as the first two albums. More solidly composed, perhaps, but is too intellectually distanced from the guts and gristle that was Considered Dead.

Yes, I feel it is something similar to Altars of Madness versus Blessed are the Sick.

Obscura is either shallower than everyone makes it out to be, or so impenetrably deep that I still haven't wrapped my mind around it.

That's what i thought at fist too.
At the present I can listen to it pleasantly and I think I can appreciate it greatly. I still continue to listen to it and my impression of it is as a rough diamond.  A jagged-shaped and in a way not proportional natural beauty.  FWtH brings human intellect, measure, sense of proportion and measure into that and crafts that rough diamond.

This is what Luc Lemay has said about it (more than once):

When we sat down to write for "Obscura" we deliberately made an effort to not do such things as the fast Slayer beats, no more fast picking riffs and other ideas found on our second album "Erosion to Sanity". So we forced ourselves to create a new musical language to use for "Obscura" but that album was just a first draft of this new language if you will. It's like a child learning a language for the first time, the will to express themselves is there but the outcome is somewhat simplistic at first. But with "From Wisdom to Hate" and now "Colored Sands", we have more experience with this new language and therefore can better express ourselves with a widened vocabulary than on our first attempt back on the "Obscura" album. I think that's why people who have just heard "Colored Sands" first then going backwards in our catalog don't hear the albums the same way as when they each came out.

I do think that the new album lacks a metal direction and that 50% of it feels like filler to me, though.
Apart from that, that is his personal view on what Obscura was. 
And I completely agree with it when I hear FWtH after it.

Metal / Obscura vrs From Wisdom to Hate
« on: December 22, 2013, 01:59:30 AM »
Obscura is an exciting and futuristic exploration.  It was written by Gorguts the year RIGHT after The Erosion of Sanity came out.  It has all kinds of sounds, structural variation and sound experiments.  But in my opinion it is also over-extended to the point of redundancy and sometimes lacking (or making me feel it lacks) enough development of some ideas.

"From Wisdom to Hate" is matured Gorguts. Best album by this band.

Too subtle for even most fans of the band to appreciate as their most refined work. Most get distracted by the over-abundant (and redundant) fireworks that Obscura present them with and fail to see how it falls short of the directed and concise work of art "From Wisdom to Hate" is.

Metal / Re: What Band are you listening today?
« on: December 21, 2013, 06:10:45 PM »
Bathory- Blood, Fire, Death
Samael - Worship Him
Gorgoroth -Antichrist
Bach - The art of fugue

Nice! I also like the combination of Classical and Extreme Metal art in successive waves.
Today it's Massacra's first three albums, Haydn's London Symphonies, Derogatory's debut and Beethoven late string quartets for me!

Interzone / Re: Widening income disparity
« on: December 21, 2013, 04:08:01 PM »
I don't think you quite get it  :(

I believe what you said about growing up is true.
But I also think that rights and controlling our society (even going against what is "natural" - survival of the fittest within the species) is important for us to survive healthily.  I think the situations in countries like the US where there is an abuse of everything by big corporations (I do not mean Google... I mean the huge banks and what not) have been out of control for decades. They control everything and have directed even the US's foreign policy (a tyrannical and oppressive one for any who does not live inside the US) to favor their greedy interests. 

Sure, it is natural for the strong to survive, but this planet will not survive us (well, it will, but we will destroy ourselves and many other species in a few centuries).  Thing is that you need to understand that the "natural way" is not necessarily the best way, this is a misunderstanding.  Genes only need to keep reproducing, it doesn't matter how much the organism suffers.  Life will favor the strong blindly. There is no natural 'plan'. Things just happen and there are only two outcomes at the end: either we survive or we don't survive.  We have arrived at a time in our evolution were we can take charge of things and steer our own destiny a little more willfully.

Why does Satan - Life Sentence meet the approval of anyone here? By that I mean, since when is verse-chorus song structure excusable, let alone worthy of praise? I just listened to this album and I found the rigidity of structure unappealing and condemnable.

I think this site is often misunderstood by the short-sightedness of other people.  deathmetal.org has never had anything against verse-chorus structure IN PARTICULAR (attention, please).  In the instances in which verse-chorus structure has been damned in here is when it is a further simplification of an already-void music.  Sometimes the grandeur of a band lied in its structural development, so when they turn to verse-chorus structure, this is lost.  If you read more reviews in this website (particularly the BM and Grindcore ones, being more minimalistic) you will find albums being praised which have verse-chorus structure.

Satan uses strict verse-chorus structure and adheres to other conventions they choose and  I think they produce a coherent album in a consistent style in which they express themselves excellently.

The Unholy Trinity:

1. Satan - Life Sentence
2. Summoning - Old Mornings Dawn
3. Imprecation - Satanae Tenebris Infinita

these are some of the best, I agree!

My List:








for the moment...

I got to disagree here...
Von and Krypts sound nice aesthetically, but I do not think they strike real gold.
Ulcerate is.. well cool experimentation, leave it at that.
Immolation is clutching at its own past but cannot reach it.  This album seems to be trying hard to be Here in After but with more catchy sections and simpler structures.
I found Grave Miasma ok for a spin, but I don't even find an original voice in there. Too generic.

Aosoth and Saligia, I have yet to listen.

I reckon these ones should make it:

Summoning - Old Mornings Dawn
Imprecation - Satanae Tenebris Infinita
Satan - Life Sentence
Von - Dark Gods, Seven Billion Slaves
Scalpel - Sorrow and Skin
Birth A.D. - I Blame You
Burzum - Sl Austan, Mni Vestan

I think these are good too but not sure if they should make the list:

Centurian - Contra Rationem
Warbeast - Destroy
Disfigurement Soul Rot

And these I haven't heard yet but judging from the reviews on this site they're probably worth considering:

Profanatica - Thy Kingdom Cum
Condor - Nadia
Witchblood - Blood and the Elements

I'll be checking out the ones I do not know in this list.  Thanks!

I have been championing Nadia since it was on the front page earlier this year. Outstanding stuff, haven't stopped listening since. So, seconding the recommendation.

I'm surprised at the mention of Blitzkrieg. It is a style that is easy for me to like, so I have been listening to it a lot, but there are at least two songs on the album that are straight-forward god-fucking-awful radio rock. And then there are a couple of songs that go nowhere for every minute they are on. Also, NWOBHM with so few solos?! That's not cool, man.

Why does it deserve to be on best-of-the-year list? I'm baffled.

I agree, I think many things this year top Blitzkrieg.
Altars, Bolzer, Heresiarch, Zealotry. 
They may be apples and oranges, but in their respective styles you can measure them up (subjectively, that is...).
I don't do "top of a particular branch".  I really want to know the best overall Metal releases.

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