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Messages - Imposition

1 ... 13 [14]
196
Actually, it's obvious that the french authorities are just being hyper proactive. Considering Vikernes' past, and some of his comments and affiliations at certain times I can see why they arrested him. It's not like they've charged him with anything. It's natural to check up on people buying guns in the modern state, and if they happen to have a violent record and links to 'extremism', then of course authorities are going to jump, even over-react. it makes them look good, if nothing else.

197
Interzone / Varg Vikernes has been arrested for 'terrorism' in France
« on: July 16, 2013, 02:50:38 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23327165
http://news.sky.com/story/1116488/breivik-linked-neo-nazi-in-france-terror-arrest

The press are sensationalising things. Saying he is a 'sympathiser' of Brevik. At the bottom of each article they concede that Vikernes critcised the attacks. Way to be full of shit.

198
Metal / Re: Why do we all hate -core music?
« on: July 16, 2013, 08:52:10 AM »
Humanicide, nothing personal, but comparing the albums you mentioned, on any charitable application of inter-subjective musical standards (compositional depth, emotional depth, maturity) to Close To A World Below is worse than comparing The Black Album to Dark Side of the Moon (which KirK from Metallica has done, to his eternal stupidity)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyprzmd3rVw
vs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpGiu5Vj158

199
Metal / Knowing ones place: Burzum and 0peth
« on: July 15, 2013, 04:50:14 AM »
Out of the whole of the newest metal Burzum album, i would say this is a worthwhile track. But it's not metal. In fact, it's closest to prog folk music or something using electric guitars. It has the melancholic and tragic vibe of some norwegian folk music too, or so I can tell. I posit that it's a very nice track, albeit in a different emotional mode than his classic black metal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo8LwWuY8cQ

In addition to re-visiting ambient electronic music, and since leaving prison, Varg should have dropped the metal pretentions and created this sort of epic nordic folk music. It is what he seems to be into philosophically and aesthetically these days too.

This leads me to another band, 0peth. 0peth's pretention to play 'progressive death metal' is bullshit. It's nothing like death metal and never has been. However, their recent turn to classic progressive rock is, I think, a welcome direction for the band. They have always been unconsciously wanting to play this sort of music, and to finally embrace their 70's heroes. The move away from metal and into 70's prog displays honesty and the kind of 'good fit' which comes from no longer trying to insert a round peg (progressive rock) into a square hole (death metal).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DJvA3TOY8A

200
Interzone / Re: Storytelling
« on: July 06, 2013, 03:21:43 AM »
It is easier to remember a story that is extraordinary than a story that is ordinary.  In order that the stories might be passed on from one generation to the next, the oral versions of these stories were probably embellished. 

An astute oberservation! According to cognitive scientists of religion, this is exactly what accounts for a common element of religion across cultures (worship of supernatural agents).

Check out the 'Minimally Counterintuitive Concepts' heading in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_science_of_religion#Main_Concepts

Also: "He argues that one such factor is that it has, in most cases, been advantageous for humans to remember "minimally counter-intuitive" concepts which are somewhat different from the daily routine and somewhat violate innate expectations about how the world is constructed. A god that is in many aspects like humans but much more powerful is such a concept while the often much more abstract god discussed at length by theologians is often too counter-intuitive. Experiments support that religious people think about their god in anthropomorphic terms even if this contradicts the more complex theological doctrines of their religion." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology_of_religion#Religion_as_a_by-product

201
Interzone / Re: Genesis of Melody
« on: July 06, 2013, 03:15:28 AM »
Quote from: aquarius
Basically you have a group and the tendency is, like language to diverge and develop an idiosyncratic identity that subconsciously mirrors it. On top of that is the cross-cultural exchange of ideas and other developments which occur only under the grand forces of time.

But where does that particular affinity for favouring that particular combination of notes come from? I cannot narrow it down to a logical reason other than that it is somewhat hard-wired into the soul, something even the most extremely individualistic composer is bound by.

Ah! Now we are talking cultural evolution, a fascinating topic.

It's probably not as hard-wired as you suggest. First, you need someone with group status to come up with a new varient, say a new melody in a new mode. We have cognitive dispositions to want to emulate the top apes in the group, for adaptive reasons. Second, you need some group isolation so that a clear lineage of copies or variants can evolve with out too much outside influence. Third, (for development over time) you need copying of the original variant, which in this case will mean emulation of the melody. During the copying process of emulation, slight errors inevitably creep in, and if these 'errors' are replicated then you get cumulative change over time of a particular lineage with its own general regional flavour. 

But I guess this doesn't completely address the genesis, or original variant of the melody. Where did it come from? Most likely from africa.

All this is.not to say that the evolution of the melody is not consciously guided a bit along the way too. Copying 'errors' need only be errors from the point of view of a perfect replication process. So perhaps there will be some interplay between a culture's environment and historical events. But the melody won't spring from the soul or DNA of the people as though it were predetermined.

Bill.

But who did the first ape emulate?  Is it emulation or two different apes arriving at the same melody?  If something works it works; is the one ape merely emulating the other ape or is he noticing that this ape knows what works?

Who knows what our African ancestors emulated. Probably a bird!

It would be emulation if one individual heard another individual with a tune, and replicated it.

Is the one ape merely emulating the other ape or is he noticing that this ape knows what works? Well, what 'works' when it comes to a melody is going to be far too broad to narrow down a specific regional lineage, so I would think it has to be emulation. Why? Because all cultural variants of melodies 'work' for any particular human being independent of culture. Rear a child from birth in a different culture and he will have no problem with internalising their modes and scales. So the reason why we have different forms of traditional music for different cultures is not going to be because of what 'worked' for them qua different culture. It's going to be more random, a product of historical accident mixed with environmental influence (a bit like biological evolution)

202
Metal / Re: Crust Punk
« on: July 05, 2013, 04:38:30 AM »
No.

I love crust punk and what I'd have to say is this: don't bother listening to it except the three best bands. Everyone who came afterwards was an imitator. This is not dissimilar to the way black metal produced now is worse than Emperor's shittiest album.

Neurosis, Amebix, and Discharge.

That's all you need to know. Maybe Crass, but musically, they're pretty uninspiring.

What killed punk was "me too" bands like The Dead Kennedys and all the Fugazi and Discharge clones.

Thanks, I like Amebix!

203
Interzone / Re: Genesis of Melody
« on: July 05, 2013, 04:25:58 AM »
Implications for metal: with the proliferation of exposure to all possiible variants due to internet, condition two will.be harder to satisfy. Meaning no more evolution of metal. Everyone is exposed to everything, and there will be no change for an inheritance process to get going without immediately being diluted by other variants.

204
Interzone / Re: Genesis of Melody
« on: July 05, 2013, 04:21:03 AM »
Quote from: aquarius
Basically you have a group and the tendency is, like language to diverge and develop an idiosyncratic identity that subconsciously mirrors it. On top of that is the cross-cultural exchange of ideas and other developments which occur only under the grand forces of time.

But where does that particular affinity for favouring that particular combination of notes come from? I cannot narrow it down to a logical reason other than that it is somewhat hard-wired into the soul, something even the most extremely individualistic composer is bound by.

Ah! Now we are talking cultural evolution, a fascinating topic.

It's probably not as hard-wired as you suggest. First, you need someone with group status to come up with a new varient, say a new melody in a new mode. We have cognitive dispositions to want to emulate the top apes in the group, for adaptive reasons. Second, you need some group isolation so that a clear lineage of copies or variants can evolve with out too much outside influence. Third, (for development over time) you need copying of the original variant, which in this case will mean emulation of the melody. During the copying process of emulation, slight errors inevitably creep in, and if these 'errors' are replicated then you get cumulative change over time of a particular lineage with its own general regional flavour. 

But I guess this doesn't completely address the genesis, or original variant of the melody. Where did it come from? Most likely from africa.

All this is.not to say that the evolution of the melody is not consciously guided a bit along the way too. Copying 'errors' need only be errors from the point of view of a perfect replication process. So perhaps there will be some interplay between a culture's environment and historical events. But the melody won't spring from the soul or DNA of the people as though it were predetermined.

Bill.

205
Metal / Re: NWOBHM, Doom: Best Of
« on: June 28, 2013, 03:09:57 AM »
Ah! Im glad you changed the sabbath entry from first 4 to first 6! Sabbotage is great.

I've never liked volume 4, oddly. They seem to go fully blues hard rock and loose what set them apart from other hard rock bands (apart from the first track, which is one of their best)

206
Metal / Re: New Finnish Death Metal
« on: June 27, 2013, 07:19:32 AM »
Fair enough.

They at least got past my outer bullshit defences. The point of the thread was just to list a few semi-decent Finnish bands, as I was wondering whether there might a bit of osdm movement there if other people had more examples, whether or not they are top-tier. I forgot to include this one of course:

chthe'ilist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRSesSiu360

Bill


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